So no Dominions 4?
 

Then why the heck are you still charging 60 dollars for a game thats a bargain bin title?

And you wonder why people pirate games...christ...this game is as much as my car insurance. Ever heard of depreciation? Game might sell a bit better at a lower price. Like say, 30 dollars? Considering it didnt cost 1/100th of what it costs to create A+ titles?

I cant get anyone to try this game because its too darned expensive. I cant get another copy so i can legitimately play with my roomies, because its too darned expensive.

Why do you fail at marketing.

Bioshock, that cost umpteenth million dollars, dropped to half your price in the first 6 months it was out.

You people are obviously on crack.

Drop it 15 dollars and youll prolly triple yer sales.

Re: So no Dominions 4?
 

I'm glad we have a business and marketing expert here to finally set things straight.

There have been numerous articles written on why 'indy' games are more expensive than big name high street titles. Google them.

Re: So no Dominions 4?
 

I fail to see how selling 3 times as many games for a total income less than selling the original number at full price would be considered a good thing. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif

Other than that I totally agree with Sombre.

Re: So no Dominions 4?
 

Kraftwerk,

Even if I don't share your bad words against the devs, I have to agree that I would like a price reduction too. My friends would better like to buy the game and we could organize MP games together sometimes (and the 2 of them playing WoW would probably get detoxified http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif). Even if Sombre evenly pointed up the reason for the different cost of indy games, I must say that the opportunity-cost of a game going for 3 years old and still costing around 45/50 euros is not little. Here in Italy, but surely everywhere, every month 4/5 magazines of pc gaming come out - they cost 6/7 euros each, they give you a complete game of 2 or even 1 year ago (and one of the "big pieces"), all the new demos and patches and mods, and come of course with the magazine itself with many interesting news about the gaming world. That just to talk about the opportunity cost of this game.

Having said that... I can't complain a lot against whoever decides the price. The devs put a lot of love in this game - a kind of passion that you don't find in many games from the bigger companies. Lots of new patches, and enough free new contents with every patch that many companies would have asked you another 20/30 euros for "the expansion". The game also comes with a 300 pages manual which surely they don't print for free, and well, even after 2+ years, it is always the same nonetheless.
And another thing. This game is huge. You could probably play it... dunno, 6, 7 years? with it without getting bored, if it's your genre (and it is my genre, for example). Many so-called "masterpieces" today maybe come at 50 euros, 30/20 euros if you wait some months, but longevity=10/15 hours=one week or so for me, surely less for many gamers.

So, it is difficult to judge. The game has its reasons (free support with new contents and patches, great and nice manual, virtually almost endless longevity) to have the actual price. A price reduction, on the other hand, would be very appreciated now that many of the long-time fans have bought the game and shown their support to our dear Shrapnel, as other people, less likely to spend 50 euros on an indy niche game, would probably get attracted by a lower price and give it at least a try.

P.S. None gets offended please, I tried to show comprehension with everybody's ideas while bringing my ones, and I am opened to new points.

Re: So no Dominions 4?
 

Hmmmm, sounds like proof of Dom3's quality and lasting appeal. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

(Well actually it sounds like a different business model for niche vs. pop-culture markets. But I'll stick with lasting as the "official" explanation, because it does have that.)

-Max

Re: So no Dominions 4?
 

I dont understand why "no Dominions 4" on a game which is still getting regular free upgrades makes it suddenly a bargain bin game. Wouldnt that be the reverse? IF they DID announce a Dom4 THEN you might make that argument. Until then this is still a first-run game going strong.

And Im not sure we have any firm answer on Dom4. All we know is that they have a new project. But the types of conversations going on here at the time did seem to push the devs into going in a whole new direction. But I dont know for sure.

Re: So no Dominions 4?
 

dom3 is on patch 17 now.

nowhere else do you get that kind of love without a monthly subscription.

aside from that, dom3 is just better than everything else. if you celebrate the mediocrity and imitation coming from titles like bioshock as "A+"; well then I don't know if anything I can say to you will be of use.

Re: So no Dominions 4?
 

Yes the price makes no sense.. Considering the game is approaching its second year.. Theres no reason a 2 year old game that didnt have a quarter of the production costs of mainstream games to still cost as much as those.

Thats one of the appeals of most indies games.. Cheaper cause they didnt have to hire 100 artists for 2 years to get top of the line graphics..


And i also cant get anyone to even look at the game.. They say it sounds interesting i tell them how much it costs and they laff considering the graphics and age..

Re: So no Dominions 4?
 

Seems like n0b0dy here reads or tries to consider each other's opinions and reasons http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif - The "high quality of the game" Holy Temple consider a blasphemy to talk about a price reduction, the "It didn't cost 50 million dollars" Dark Rebels start their guerrilla, and n0ne tries to better show their points or to come to a peaceful solution.

Re: So no Dominions 4?
 

Eh, Tifone, the poster asked to be marginalized by writing in such a flame-attracting way. I dont begrude anyone mocking and/or flaming him.


This said, the point is still valid. While I certainly love Dom3, I dont think its unreasonable to expect the price to drop over time - even in an indy market.

Re: So no Dominions 4?
 

Can you get them to look at the free demo? You can easily get 50-60 hours of play out of the demo.

-Max

Re: So no Dominions 4?
 

Kraftwerk,

I sent you a PM.

Tifone,

I was the one who mentioned the "high quality of the game." In case you missed it, that was more of a dig at Bioshock than an explanation of Shrapnel's business model. I didn't scream or charge anyone with blasphemy.

-Max

Re: So no Dominions 4?
 

The demo is rather limited in my opinion .

But yes i've got a couple to try but the price is still a turn off. With shipping and handling your looking at over 60 dollars for it since theres no digital download option ..

And the others dont even bother with the demo cause of price..

Re: So no Dominions 4?
 

@ MaxWilson,

The "blasphemy" thing was just making sarcasm ^^ I was not referring to you nor trying to attack your thought. If you took it as an attack, I have no problem deeply apologizing - in fact, as I said in my previous post, I was one of the absolutely supporters of the "You pay for the quality" thesis.

Re: So no Dominions 4?
 

Bargain bin title? Umm, yeah. Ya know, one of the reasons why we don't distribute through retail is BECAUSE of exactly that. Why are we going to publish a game and have a two week window for it to sell before it drops in price?

I never realized that games depreciate. Is it like autos, where as soon as you install it the cost drops 20%?

As far as what it costs to develop. Gee, you ever think that the developers deserve to be paid fairly for their work? Again, another reason not to go the retail route. Most developers rarely even see one cent of what a game makes. Here the developers are fairly compensated, and continue to be throughout the entire LIFE of the game.

Skip a couple dinners going out and eat at home and you have the money for the game. It costs me more to fill up my car than Dominions III costs. While more expensive than other games we sell, it ain't *that* expensive.

See my comments above.

Strangely even after being out for years it continues to be our top selling game. So what does that tell you?

Re: So no Dominions 4?
 

Doesnt the cost of manufacture and distribution go up? Seems like everything else does.

I still think the arguments are not realistic. They seem based on "everyone else does it so why dont you". The game is still a #1 seller so why would Shrapnel lower it? I totally understand why other games end up in the bargain bin. Those are games where I spend $50 and get maybe a month of play out of it. This is one that has lasted years and is still getting upgrades. Not just patching, but upgrades. How many full nations have been added since its release? Not to mention equipment, spells, mod commands, etc.

Wish for a price decrease all you want to and I will gladly join you. But after wishing the rest just comes off as whining.

Re: So no Dominions 4?
 

Many games depreciate because the quality of their graphics and other production values are major selling points. Over time these become less impressive compared to other titles on the market, and the games become worth less.

In Dominions' case the strengths never were the production values, and so there is no sense in depreciation. The game still looks bad, to pretty much the same extent it did two years ago. In all other respects it remains awesome, just as it was two years ago. There have been no other comparable games in its genre to make it look dated, and indeed there are still few real competitors for it. So a constant price makes sense.

Also the game has been patched and added to so much since release that in many ways its value has actually increased.

As for it being so expensive in the first place - that is Shrapnel's decision, and despite many people desperately arguing that they would get more sales if they made it cheaper, they seem quite determined to hold it steady. Maybe they are even right, who knows.

Re: So no Dominions 4?
 

Things priced as cheap are perceived as cheap. I believe they should continue to hold the price high given Dom3 is clearly a low volume sale and thus warrants a high price to generate value for the supply chain. That said, I think they could pick up some sales taking it below $50. The marketer in me says $49.99 or $44.99 would be a good price. Paying $55 for a game you are not sure about is a leap of faith. I didn’t buy Dom3 til I got the Stardock coupon that took it under $50 and I am neither poor nor cheap. I just couldn’t get myself to take a $55 bite after having purchased so much electronic garbage in my life.

Re: So no Dominions 4?
 

All I am going to say is that I bought Bioshock with a shiny new Xbox360 for my kids and I played it all of 2 days. Very pretty game. I am still playing Dom3 after owning it for nearly 2 years. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: So no Dominions 4?
 

Indeed - marketing decision of a price-point aside, the value of the product is only increasing with time. Unless one of those big studios with the flashy 3D engines and massive programming team makes a game as good as Dominions as well as adding to it, then there is no competition at all.

If any move were made to lower the cost of the software, it would likely involve an increase in total user cost. The best you could hope for is to drop Dominions to ~$40, and then see all of the patched content (with a special update added I'm sure, to inspire purchase) all rolled into one consumer friendly "expansion", which would cost, oh, say $30.

Are you happy now? Your *****ing has just increased the price of the game, with the benefit of hurrying a couple more nations to us. Thanks a ton. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

<3

Re: So no Dominions 4?
 

I'm slightly confused by this topic. That is, I'm not sure if the topic creator actually likes this game. He seems to want to play it with his roommates, which would indicate he does like it. However, it doesn't seem like he feels that it is worth the price he paid for it....which would indicate that he doesn't like it....

Furthermore, the assertion that a price reduction would "prolly" triple sales indicates foreknowledge of the games current sales rating. Since publishers are inherently interested in maximizing profit, I'm willing to bet that Shrapnel is in possession of more accurate sales figures than "prolly", and sales must be doing quite well to justify the games current price vs. sales curve.

If it was, on the other hand, the original poster's goal to log onto the forums that, at first glance, are used by a majority of people that really enjoy the experience they get out of the game and harass them, then I think that objective has been met. So...kudos?

Re: So no Dominions 4?
 

Okay, it's cool. It's just so hard to tell on the Internet when we're talking past each other that I thought it was worth making sure we're on the same page. Thanks for clarifying.

-Max

Re: So no Dominions 4?
 

As mentioned, things like eye-catching graphics and realistic sound werent ever part of this game. Deep strategy and long life are. Im not sure if dropping the price would end up bringing in a flood of new players the way it would if it were trying for the ooh-ahh-prettypretty console crowd. Niche games dont tend to be affected much by marketing techniques.

Re: So no Dominions 4?
 

Wow. Mod +1, insightful. Production values are of course not the only selling points which depreciate with time (some games probably depreciate as the market for that genre becomes saturated) but intuitively this makes sense. Flashy games depreciate because of Moore's Law. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

-Max

Re: So no Dominions 4?
 

You know it's possible to make that point without mocking console gamers. I'm an arcade and console player before I'm a pc gamer and I get a little tired of hearing this attitude on the board.

There are games deeper than dominions on consoles, believe it or not.

Re: So no Dominions 4?
 

Being the best seller doesnt really mean much.. If prices drop could sells not go up even more? It'd still be the best seller but maybe making more money or not.


Yes but those production values are why games cost what they cost now.. And why new gen console games run yea 60 dollars.

You need an army of artists and designers putting in hundreds of hours. Is the point im making.. And why alot of people having issue with having to spend near 60 dollars for an indy game..


And yes i had this same exact convo close to a year ago.. They didnt seem to want to reduce prices then doubt they will now.. But another year of me talking about the game to all the gamers i know.. And another year without one purchasing it..

Re: So no Dominions 4?
 

I agree with you, Sombre. I have been gaming for 18 years now, and the first real games I played were console (Sonic the Hedgehog, Sega Genesis, first game I ever owned).

It seems wholly bizarre that there is any conflict between PC and Console gamers....both play video games. But, if someone does not like Dom 3, acidicly stating that they must be a console gamer isn't going to change their mind.

Re: So no Dominions 4?
 

Actually one of the big things about console pricing is the fact that everyone has to pay essentially a tithe to the console manufacturer to get published. There is also a buy-in just to start developing. If it wasn't for that (consoles lose money on hardware and count on the games to make up the losses and then some) you'd see an actual range of pricing with console games.

Ya know, I thought that same thing after my first post. He bought the game, and from his forum registration date around the time it came out, hasn't posted in years and then comes on to complain about price because his roommates think it's overpriced...but then shouldn't it be the roomies making the complaint?

Re: So no Dominions 4?
 

You do. There are a variety of budget labels that don't just rerelease old games, they include lower cost new games. The simple series in japan was the most famous of them. 505 game street does ok in the west, too.

There are also various console games released at mid level prices because they are semi sequels, multiplayer only etc. Then there are the 'arcade' games on the next gen consoles.

I could go on :]

Re: So no Dominions 4?
 

I know about the the lisencing fees or whatever one calls it to have a game released for the console and that the hardware is sold at a loss.. But production costs,and development time and all that is a factor to .

Supposedly GTA 4 cost over 100million dollars to develop..

And if anything just goes to my point. You take out the "tithe" as you said.. And you'd have games that tooks years and millions upon millions to make selling cheaper than a 2 year old indy game with subpar graphics...

Re: So no Dominions 4?
 

Dominions 3 has an extremely high entertainment/value ratio. But it comes with a very high opportunity cost, i.e. you're paying $55 for what might be junk when you could pay instead pay $30 for another game that might be junk.

Re: So no Dominions 4?
 

You're kidding me, right?

Budweiser is cheap as hell. Why is that? Because they sell well over 50 million kegs of it every year. Does it cost them a small fortune to produce that much beer? Of course it does, but they make their profit on volume.

Take Rogue Brewery here in Oregon, or any other local micro-brewery for comparison. Their production costs are fairly low, they do things by hand, with a small crew. Guess what? Their beer costs 3x as much as Bud, and it's not going to get any cheaper, no matter how much complaining there is from people without refined tastes.

Conversely, if you want to compare price-vs-cost between Dominions and high profile studio titles, you are only showing that you are not capable of making the distinction between what makes the one game good, and what makes the other game sell.

You have lost this argument ten times so far in this thread, but obviously you can't see or accept that fact either.....

Re: So no Dominions 4?
 

Because they're in a completely different market and beyond also being video games aren't really comparable.

Re: So no Dominions 4?
 

Fixed. >.>

Re: So no Dominions 4?
 

If I go see a movie that cost $150 million to make and then one that only cost $30 million to make I'm still paying $8 to see both. It is up to me, the consumer, to decide whether that $8 is equal in both cases.

Dominions III may not stand equal in the visual department of a 100 million dollar franchise, but it sure beats most where it counts: gameplay.

Re: So no Dominions 4?
 

Errr ok you've missed most of my points. Then some how decided who won or lost in a thread talking about a possible price cut..

O thank you Decider of who won the threads. The world is no doubt a better place with you making such crucial decisions .

Re: So no Dominions 4?
 

Dom3 is easily one my favorite games of all. Its graphics stink but its gameplay is awesome..

Im just suggesting a price cut.. And giving the impression i got from other people i've talked the game up to as to y they didnt find the game wroth the price.

Re: So no Dominions 4?
 

More importantly, Rogue makes really good beer.

Re: So no Dominions 4?
 

That its a good game in a sea of sub par titles.

Charging 60 dollars is like people charging 10 dollar bottles of water in the desert.

Its not that the product is worth 60 dollars, its that its the only product around.

Fleecing people you are.

Just because people buy it, doesnt mean its a good deal. People spend their last dollar on crack. Does that make crack good? Or even a good value? Sure doesnt.

People would opt for the better value, if one existed, doesnt make any less morally reprehensible to charge over three times somethings value.

Not to mention if you dropped the price 15 dollars or so, so it was 45 bucks, youd sell alot more. 3x45 is more than 1x60. It really does keep people who would buy it (and more than likely end up modding for it, increasing the community, and therefor selling more copies, i'm a former team member of the Halflife Modification Day of Defeat. Valve software (the most successful on the planet) attributed a considerable number of sales to our mod. They even bought us out to develop the sequel inhouse.

You have to compete. You lose sales when a MP community finds a game (which has happened here before) they want to play, but all the members of that community dont have access to the game due to the price. After a short burst of interest, they move on to a game they can all play together.

Im sure your satisfied with the amount of money youre making, but you can always make more, and you can always increase the size of your fanbase, which can only help with future titles (and other titles), a large fanbase attracts more developers as well, as they want to be a part of whats going on.

But basically, its just too damned expensive for what it is. No average person in their right mind would purchase this game for the price it is. Grognards, enthusiasts, previous fans, and people starving for a quality game will, and if thats your goal, awesome, more power to yah Rockefellar

Re: So no Dominions 4?
 

Did someone just compare Dom3 to crack? Oh, my. That explains SO MUCH about my strange compulsions of late.

Just kidding. (I had pretty much killfiled this thread but I peeked back and couldn't resist the opening.)

-Max

Re: So no Dominions 4?
 

1) 1 game at $60 makes them a lot more than 3 at $15. Your logic makes no sense.

2) Dominions will never have the wide appeal and thus sales that the big titles have. It takes too much thinking to play it. This means they have to charge more.

As for playing with your roomies, do it hotseat. One copy is fine.

Re: So no Dominions 4?
 

So you admit at least that it's a good game?

And if we dropped the price to a $1 we could sell SIXTY TIMES MORE COPIES, right? Oh wait, 60x1 isn't very helpful. But at least more people would be playing, right?

Why $45? Why not $50? Why not $40? Why not $43.82? So we drop it to $45 then someone comes along and goes, "You're fleecing your customers! If you dropped the price to $30 you'd sell a lot more. 5x30 is more than 3x45."

Why am I getting a sense of deja vu with this conversation?)

To all the folks playing MP games on this board has everyone shot their wad with their "short burst of interest"? Or are you still playing?

Hey, who leaked our business plan?

So, you think it's a good game but don't like what we charge for it...that sums it up, right? That's fine, to each his own.

Re: So no Dominions 4?
 

Youre comparing a theatre, which purchases a movie then rents out space for viewings, and they pay different amounts for different movies, the way they "charge more" for 150 million dollar movie as opposed to a 30 million dollar movie is to put it on more screens, it stands to reason Independence Day is going to draw a larger crowd than Sense and Sensibility. So S&S that AMC only paid a million to put on at its numerous locations, will only appear on 1 maybe 2 screens where as ID4 that cost them maybe 5 million to put on at their locations, will get 4 to maybe even 8 screens.

Your example is actually proof of what im saying. If you charge 8 dollars for something, people are more inclined to pay for it than if you charge 60 for it. While it might work to charge 60 dollars for a ticket to ID4 and put it on at just as many screens as S&S, something tells me alot of people wouldnt see a movie that costs considerably more than other movies of the same or BETTER quality.

Bottom line, the price keeps people from buying it. This isnt the first time this has come up over the years, and it wont be the last.

The price hurts the community. Every month, someone shelfs this game. If there arent warm fresh bodies, eventually the community dies, and you end up like Master of Magic. A game people DL for free, a decade later, because the community dried up, where the developers could still be getting checks , and the community could still be actively creating mods and purchasing the game, and hopefully, providing an opportunity for a sequel.

Seriously, if you guys arent going to make a dominions 4, why should i even convince friends of mine to purchase this game? So you can retire to florida? Put gas in your tank? Why should we pay new release price for a old game, when a current version isnt being worked on, wheres the money going? A greedy publisher? Solid gold champagne glasses? For serious....why should you get far more than somethings worth.

Its like buying a beer at a bar. Sure its three times as expensive as a store, but theyre providing an atmosphere, and a promise of many more beers than you could buy at one time on tap. What are you providing for the 15 more dollars your charging over the competition.

Re: So no Dominions 4?
 

I don't quite get your viewpoint Kraftwerk..

Are you saying that $60 is too much because you and/or your friends think its not worth that much, or that Shrapnel/Illwinter are pricing stupidly and would make more money at lower cost?

If the latter, presumably Shrapnel understand the demand elasticity of their game pretty well and have their price point for a reason? They, afterall, would have the best information to make that judgement. Personally I can't imagine a drop of $15 would have a massive impact on sales. I certainly don't see the depreciation argument - does a book depreciate? Games only really devalue when they are superseded by something better, and I'm not aware of any comparable game that does it better than Dom 3. As was mentioned, only if Dom 4 came out would there be reason to drop the price on its predecessor.

If you personally think its too expensive, why did you buy it? If your friends won't pay for it, either you haven't sold it to them well enough or its not really their thing. No point trying to sell Dom 3 to the average gamer, its a niche interest. No-one I've spoken to about the game considers the price an issue, although only one paid convert so far! Either way, no need to get upset over it, its their prerogative to sell at whatever price suits them.

Personally, I think Dom 3 has saved me a lot of money. For $60 it has taken away hours and hours of time I would have had to find other things to do in, which all-in-all would have cost me a lot more! Doesn't take many videos, books, or drinks out to cover $60, given the hundreds of hours I expect to play on this game before I have enough. The only downside is lost sleep http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: So no Dominions 4?
 

Seriously. My roommate buys new games constantly. Most of them he plays for a day or two, declares them to be the "worst (insert genre or adjective) game ever!", and then throws them at me. Me, I am a gaming gourmand. If it will run on my computer and has a sword or a gun somewhere, I'll probably play it beginning to end. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

But Dom3 requires refined taste to truly appreciate. And, it will require a very special effort to surpass.

Is Dom3 a niche game? Yes it is. Will it ALWAYS be a niche game? Of course it will. Until someone, anyone (I mean ANYONE, Galactic Civ comes the closest in recent times) produces an AI that can grasp a game well enough to give a thouthful player a run for their money - then there will absolutely be a "turn based PBEM strategy game" niche. While many people continue to play Dom3 SP, and find ways to keep it interesting and enjoyable, the niche that it is most catering to, is the PBEM crowd (which I was not part of until I joined this forum). Now, since the PBEM has always been and always will be a small segment of the game, what is the incentive to cut price.


Net effect - lowering price would mostly only serve to massively increase the number of low-brow twitch gamers who accidentally buy a "bargain bin" title, and then spam other forums and review sites with their complaints about the "terrible graphics", the "lack of tactical battles", and how they think it's "still too expensive, and they wished they had only wasted $10".

Now, that being the probable outcome of this issue, the result for Shrapnel/IW is - one time jump in sales, equating to very minor increase in profit due to slashing of margins, followed my irreversible sales slump caused by the glut of negative reviews covering up the glowing reviews posted by the intended purchaser of the game.

Now shush, that's 3 times I have won this argument. The first stage of insanity is denial. Move on to anger or something. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

Re: So no Dominions 4?
 

You get more playtime out of Dominions than out of games that only last for 30 hours or so, and those are considered long. The difference in this case is like watching a decent movie and buying a DVD collection with several movies, or rather, several seasons of a TV series. If you like the genre, you will probably want the DVD collection, even if it costs more, both to show that you think it's worth the price and to enjoy actually watching the series.

Interestingly, while this has come up several times there has always been a community to discuss in these threads. It won't last, of course. We lose people all the time, and they don't always come back. There are very few games that last a decade. I can only think of StarCraft as a game that's actively played and created content for, and frankly, I don't expect a team of two people to do as good job as Blizzard did for one of their most successful games ever.


Illwinter is working on a new project. It isn't Dominions 4 because the old codebase is a mess. Most of the things that can be done, have been, and the rest are either minor or very hard to implement, or both.

In addition for developing something else, Illwinter is also improving the current version. See here:
http://ulm.illwinter.com/dom3/dom3progress.html

Shrapnel Games often holds sales for various holidays. I don't remember how much they take off the price, but I haven't noticed a heap of new registered members appearing after all those sales, so it seems there weren't substantially more sales even with the reduced price.

There's even a distinct feeling in these forums that could be compared to the friendly atmosphere found in a bar, and the manual is very useful, even though it's value has been lowered when new patches have kept changing and adding content.


I do agree that some people won't buy the game because they find it too expensive. People play the demo of Dom3, DomII and even Dom:PPP!!! Why would they play the first version, with horrible user-interface even compared to the current ones, even worse in the balance department, with ugly maps and no mods that could be used even if they did have the full version?

Because it doesn't have a turn limit, and they have 14 nations to choose from.

That, alone, is enough for them. The first version of this series looks and plays like it was released at the same time as Master of Magic. Even with research limited to level 4, even if most nations lose their best mages, even if the AI will be unaffected by the limits and will crush them in a prolonged game with superior spells, it's worth playing. I first encountered this on the Dwarf Fortress forums, so it does take a specific kind of people, but I was still shocked that even the demo of the first Dominions game is considered a good game.

I don't know how much they would pay for Dominions 3. I only know that in that bay12games thread, one person bought the full Dom3 version, after speaking about the game for a while.

Re: So no Dominions 4?
 

I like their Dead Man ale. Their Mori Moto pilsener is really good too. As well as their Imperial Stout. All are pricey.

Sorry, I used to live in Oregon, and am a big fan of the Rogue brewery.

Re: So no Dominions 4?
 

Hell with playing it after 2 years, I haven't even been able to play Dom3 for months and I'm still posting to this forum almost every day! How's that for getting my money's worth?

Mind you, I'm all for Dominions 4 http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif I'll shell out 75$ for a pre-order just as soon as they announce it, even if it doesn't come out for 3 years. I'd go as high as $150, but it'd have to wait for my birthday or Christmas or something, because I'm poor like that.

Re: So no Dominions 4?
 

Actually, theatres don't buy movies. The business model is more along the lines of the studio renting screens from the theatre in return for a (rather small) fraction of the ticket price. Then the theatre makes a significant part of its revenue from selling concessions.

That's a little besides the point, though, which is this: for works of art such as movies, music, computer games and similar, the price is not determined by the cost of production. Rather, the price is determined by the consumers and what they percieve the value is, and the budget for production is then determined from this. This makes sense, because -- unlike physical products -- the worth of the product to the individual consumer is not directly linked to the cost of production. It doesn't matter if a game cost hundreds of millions to make: if the game is good it's good, if it's ****e, it's ****e, regardless of cost.

True for widgets and nails. Not true for "soft" areas such as entertainment or fashion. For some types of products (surprisingly many, in fact), lowering the price can be a kiss of death, resulting in fewer sales. There's a reason why pepole buy poor $50 games from the shelf rather than good $15 games from the bargain bin: perceived value.

Sure, the (relative) high price leads to some people deciding not to buy it. That would be the true no matter what the price was, as long as it was over $0. Don't you think Shrapnel knows the basics[1] supply and demand curve, and how to find the optimum price point? Remember, the optimum price point is the point that maximises your profit, and not your units sold.

[1] Not to say simplistic

Carthago delenda est!

Weeds keep coming up repeatedly over the years too. That doesn't make them flowers.

The evidence does not appear to support the statement.

If it's the price that hurts the community, how come the MoM community is still dead, despite people downloading it for free? Simple: It's not the price.

Because it's a good game that's fun to play? Would you be hesitant to recommend a good book or a movie, just because there might not be a sequel? No? Then why does it matter for a game?

If you buy an Elvis CD, where's that money going? Not towards any new Elvis recordings, that for sure. Does that mean your money is wasted? Of course not.

Here's how it works: You pay your money, you get the game, you play the game. If the game is good, you've got your money's worth. If the game isn't good, you haven't. Wash. Rinse. Repeat.

See, that's just it. Dominions 3 is worth $55. Yes, it's more than some other games, but then Dominions 3 is better than those other games.

Of course, if you don't like Dominions 3, then the game won't be worth $55 to you. 'course, then it won't be worth $15 either, so that's not an argument. Overall, though, it seems most of the people who're likely to buy a turn based, rough-around-the-edges strategy games do think that Dominions 3 is worth the asking price.

All of this And even more, that they haven't mentioned.

Simply put: they're better than the competition, the provide more than the competition and so they can charge more than the competition. Isn't economics grand?

Re: So no Dominions 4?
 

Heh, heh, heh. And that's a BAD thing? Master of Magic still had active forums and discussion groups 10 years after its release and more. It wasn't selling any more copies, but that's because the publisher had stopped selling it. Not a bad title to emulate.

-Max