Play more than one nation in MP
 

I've stumbled into a situation that requires I play more than one nation in an MP game (team game, I'm subbing for my team mate).

Assuming I have two dom-III CDs would the procedure I'll need 2 follow be:
1. Install 2nd instance of dominions on same PC (as first one).
2. Play first nation's turns using first instance and second nation's using second instance.

I'm asking just to make sure strange things don't start happening when hosting the game.

Re: Play more than one nation in MP
 

Contact Shrapnel tech support.

lol

Re: Play more than one nation in MP
 

My guess would be that all you'd need to do is change the CD-Key between submitting turns for your two nations.

1. Play and submit/upload your turn for nation1 using the CD-Key that came with your first copy of Dom3.
2. Exit Dom3.
3. Locate and delete the "key.file" in the Dom3 directory.
4. Start Dom3 and enter the CD-Key that came with your second copy of Dom3.
5. Play and submit/upload your turn for nation2.

My understanding is (although may well be wrong) that it is only the issue of identical CD-Key's that prevents the same person (or more accurately, the same copy of Dom3) from submitting turns for more than one nation.

Re: Play more than one nation in MP
 

As far as I know, as long as you're playing on the same machine (IP Address? MAC Address?) you can use the same install (CD-Key).
I've seen claims otherwise, but I don't recall anyone posting that they tried it and it didn't work.

I haven't tried this. It obviously would work in hotseat games. And I'm not sure how to experiment on my own. I've only got 1 key, and I'm not sure that running the experiment while playing from the server machine would be a good test. I could set up a test 2 nation game if you wanted to try it out...

I'd really hope it's that way. It's certainly legit for copy protection to prevent using multiple installs of the same license, but to prevent using the same install to play 2 nations is not. No copying, no copyright infringement.

Re: Play more than one nation in MP
 

Your suggestions make sense. However its very inconvenient to have to manually type the keys every time I want to submit a turn. Also, it requires that I keep tabs over which nation used which key.

The most elegant solution would have been for the game engine that handle it automatically by allowing you to enter more than one key and then allowing (in game UI) to match key with turn/nation.

A workable solution for me would have been to install DOM-III twice and play the turns using the two installations. I find it more convenient since I don't have to retype the key.

Oh, and just a thought, what if instead if deleting key.file I rename to key.file.nation1 then I start dom and enter second key, exit dom again and copy key to key.file.nation2. Then all I need to is copy the key corresponding to the nation.

Anyway, I'm starting to get a bad feeling WRT this thread since I feel there's a risk something coming up here could be used for piracy.

I think I'll wait for Shrapnel support response.

Re: Play more than one nation in MP
 

Thejeff, I too hope your assessment is true. I'd be happy to take part in your experiment and simply test it.

I agree it does make sense to prevent two different turns from two different machines with same key from working, but using one machine to play two (or more) nations should be allowed. Its hard for me to see how it can be exploited, one machine means no copy so no issue here. Well rehashed your statement, goes to show how strongly I agree http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Play more than one nation in MP
 

I've thrown up a testgame at silverfool.com Port 8098

Try it out when you can.

Let me know if you can't connect or something. I don't have the game installed here, so I can't check the server.

Re: Play more than one nation in MP
 

I agree ^^ If I wanted to play a 2nations vs 2 with one friend, or my (ipotetical) brother wants to take part to a game with my copy, it doesn't seem unlegit, having I a valid and checked copy of the game http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smirk.gif

Re: Play more than one nation in MP
 

Im not sure if you need to switch keys. Im fairly sure in many of the test games Ive run on my server that I have logged in as multiple nations. It has always been with one opening of Dom3 grabbing both turn files.

However, if you do decide you need to switch keys then you can create a seperate game-icon on your desktop. The key file is a file named "key". Just have the game icon for nation one copy key1 to key, then open dom3 (btw you can also tell it which ip, port, game name, etc so that you skip all that). Then have another icon on your desk for nation two which copies key2 to key, then opens dom3.

I can get more specific if I knew whether you were Windows XP, Vista, Mac, Linux.

Added Note: for those who are reading and get concerned about the possibility of cheating. Most hosts can "see" the connections and log them. On my server I can see when the same people play mutliple nations, or use a full version in a demo game.

Re: Play more than one nation in MP
 

Whoa, you're quick. Thanks!

Can't play your test game due missing mode CapitalSites.dm. Maybe you can setup w/o mods.

Re: Play more than one nation in MP
 

Thanks for the procedure.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding something but does your exprience sit well with Velusion's warning?

Re: Play more than one nation in MP
 

Im not sure. Im fairly sure that I have used the master password successfully but maybe it needs more testing. Since that is my "territory" thanks for pointing that out.

Re: Play more than one nation in MP
 

I don't think I can. I've only got text access to the machine from here and though there's a switch to turn on a mod, there doesn't seem to be one to turn off a mod that's active.

I can set it up without the mod tonight or you can grab the mod

As for Velusion's warning, it's unclear that he played both turns from the same machine. I think playing from one machine then using the server to set someone else AI would cause a problem.

Re: Play more than one nation in MP
 

Yeah I think I've also played multiple nations in the same game from a single machine. This happens sometimes if you are host and one of your players just disappears. You need to go in and set them to AI. I dont recall having any problems with CD-keys, but its been a long time...

You'd think that playing multiple turns from the same machine with the same key would be ok. After all, you are licensed to have the game on that computer - not on who actually plays the turns on that computer. But who knows how the copy protection is actually implmeneted.

Re: Play more than one nation in MP
 

Since this was an issue that I had myself when I started hosting games and had to set nations to AI where I was playing in myself, let me tell you the same info that can be found from JK's or KO's mouth elsewhere on the site here:

Just like you can play hot-seat games with as many nations as you want on the same local machine at the same time, you can play more than one nation in the same game in multiplayer. What you really NEED to make sure is that you DON'T install and use the game with the same key on different systems, though. If you e.g. try to play one nation with a Mac and one with a Windows machine, it won't work. If you play both from the same machine, then it will work. To find out more tips on how to set up your machine for multi-nation playing, search for DOM3_SAVE or DOM3_CONF on this forum and read the threads that you can find by that.

Re: Play more than one nation in MP
 

I've conducted a test myself and this (submitting multiple turns from same machine) works well.

All of the posters here helped me get to the bottom of this real quick. The support one can get here is amazing.
Thanks!

Re: Play more than one nation in MP
 

huh perhaps me no understand
I play multiple humans from the same license - just hot seat - and this is a supported application.

Re: Play more than one nation in MP
 

Yes. I knew hot seat works and I was assuming MP will work as well - that is until I got a warning that it may not work, hence this thread. Anyway tests confirm that submitting multiple turns from same machine works.

What I'm not sure about is whether the following will work.
1. Start playing turn on machine A.
2. Continue play turn on machine B (say its weekend, you're at your parents and you installed your dominions there as well, no copy violation since parents don't play dom http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif )
3. Complete playing turn on machine A and submit/email.

I assume it will work based on the assumption that every time the turn is saved to the .2h file the current key is saved as well.

Re: Play more than one nation in MP
 

That should work. In fact, it should also work if you just started on A, then finished and submitted on B.

I'm pretty sure there's no way to trigger the MP CD-Key violation while only submitting turns for one nation. It's only when you have turns from 2 or more nations with the same key and different machines that there is a problem.

Re: Play more than one nation in MP
 

I'm fairly sure it doesn't work by PBEM.

Re: Play more than one nation in MP
 

Ekhem, I am confused now. Can you play 2 nations on pbem in one game with 1 cdkey from same machine?

Re: Play more than one nation in MP
 

This works, i do copy my .2h file all the time.

Re: Play more than one nation in MP
 

Hosting doesn't differ at all for Hot-seat (local game), PBEM or network games. The only difference is how the turn files are being exchanged/transmitted.

Yes.

And it is possible to prepare turns on another machine, too. The only thing of interest for the host is: Which system submitted the turn to the server? A check value for the key being used and for the system is stored in the turn files. If the host finds the same key value, but different system values in the turn files, then it will let those nations stale.

Re: Play more than one nation in MP
 

llama, you're fairly sure what doesn't work?
Wraithlord's latest question?

I can't see how the server will even know that machine B was used. Assuming he just copies the turn files from A to B and then back, rather than trying to submit them to the server and then get them back which won't work because the server won't send you the .2h file.

Re: Play more than one nation in MP
 

So we could start a game on llamaserver where everyone has 2 nations? That could be a nice alternative for team games.

Re: Play more than one nation in MP
 

I don't think a single CD key can play more than one nation in a PBEM game. I think this not least because I not infrequently get e-mails from the LlamaServer telling me of a CD key violation. I think these occur when (a) someone tries to set another nation to AI, or (b) when someone tries to sub for a bit for someone else in the same game (not unreasonable if they are far from each other).

I haven't read this thread properly though, so I'm not entirely sure who I'm agreeing with or contradicting. Also I've had reports recently that people have not had the problem when setting nations to AI - perhaps this has been changed. I certainly used to hit the problem myself in the past.

Re: Play more than one nation in MP
 

I have observed:

One player CAN play two nations in a server game. No switching of keys are required.

Different machines (with different keys) can play the same nation. We know this, because subbing works.

One machine can play 13 nations, either server or hot seat
I know because I have done this to test strategies.

Re: Play more than one nation in MP
 

I find it difficult to imagine that PBEM works differently than network in this situation. And Wraithlord just tested the 2 nations from the same machine & key in network, so it's OK there.

I've seen reports of CD key violations and it's become common wisdom that you can't play 2 nations, but I don't recall a report that actually stated they played both nations from the same machine and had a problem.
Using the server to set a nation AI can cause it, if you're playing your nation on a different machine.
I'm pretty sure it's been the same since Dom2.

llamabeast, would you be willing to set up a game to test this and figure out exactly what does happen?
Should be as simple as starting a game and having someone submit 2 turns from the same machine & key.
How is that different from the server's perspective than a hotseat game? Only that the server is different machine, right?

Re: Play more than one nation in MP
 

I bet that you can.

You only need to read my reply. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

I'm not sure if they changed the behavior for those checks in one of the patches. I remember reading some stuff in the forums here or on the moderator forums that might indicate that this has been done. JK would know for sure. But maybe it was just a user error, and people thought that they had to actually install the game on separate machines to control nations independently. I myself have had an installation with an unofficial key specifically for setting nations to AI, but fortunately I don't need this anymore. As I wrote before, at this moment it IS possible to play more than one nation with the same key on the same system. Just try it.

Re: Play more than one nation in MP
 

I'll test it later. If that's true it's unfortunate. I'll probably have to add some code to the LlamaServer to fulfill the same purpose in that case. I think it's valuable protection against (the suspicion of) one person playing more than one nation.

Re: Play more than one nation in MP
 

If you do add code, I'd suggest making it a warning, so things like allowed subs (team games?) and setting players AI don't cause problems. Just inform you and/or the admin.

While I can see it being something to keep an eye out for in MP, it really isn't something that can be justified for copyright purposes, so I'm glad it doesn't prevent playing 2 nations.

Re: Play more than one nation in MP
 

I've tested it also on PBEM and it works.

llamabeast, I don't think you should prohibit this on your server b/c there are legit scenarios where players would want that, for example when subbing for a teammate in a team game, or if setting a game with each (or some) player/s controls more than one nation.

I think you may want to issue a warning to the game host stating which nations are played from same machine and let host decide whether its sanctioned or not.

Specifically If you prohibit this you'll make my life a bit harder, as I'll be forced to juggle the two keys I have http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

Edit, thejeff you're much quicker than me, you've four minutes on me http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Play more than one nation in MP
 

If you use the --verify functionality of the game, you'll see the check values from the game in the *.chk files. You could look if a serial is used more than once.

Re: Play more than one nation in MP
 

I don't know what the difference is, but I can confirm that I absolutely got a cd-key violation and stale when trying to take my ally's turn on the llamaserver. I didn't try it more than once, but I'm very sure that's what happened. Both turns submitted from same machine.

Re: Play more than one nation in MP
 

Also my roommate and I tried for some time one afternoon to set up a LAN game between our two computers. Absolutely didn't work.

Re: Play more than one nation in MP
 

In normal PBEM this works, I've confirmed it by testing. However could be something in the llamaserver setup makes a difference.
Just to be on the safe side I think I'll start using two different systems with two different (key) installations for submitting turns when playing like this on llamaserver.

Re: Play more than one nation in MP
 

Okay, confirmed, you can indeed play two nations on the LlamaServer with no problems. This is definitely a change.

It's actually a good thing from the point of view of setting nations to AI (which was previously a bit of a nightmare). Also it will allow team games where players can sub for their partner, which is great. However, it is otherwise bad news, and I will have to do something about it.

As people have requested, I will set it as a switch or a warning, and will not prevent team games or subbing.