Why Dominions 3 isn\'t just another computer game.
 

Not another appreciation post! Ok, it's another appreciation post, but not *just* an appreciation post.

Lately, we've had a few posts complaining about the cost of the game, the instability of various servers, problems with the forum, etc. *****, *****, *****, go whine to your mommies, says I.

Johan and Kristoffer and the (very few!) other folks connected to Illwinter have done an extraordinary job, in partnership with Shrapnel Games, who also deserves some amount of thanks.

We've got...what is it now, 56 out of the box nations? (with patches, ofcourse, but for one price that I consider very low). Each with over a score of units. Plus all the independents (which usually have atleast 4 units a piece), all the summonable units, all the horrors, Bogus and his crew, and it goes on and on. And that's just one broad facet of the game. How many games-computer or otherwise-give you this much content, period? Let alone to make it very mod friendly, let alone to make it balanced, let alone to make it multiplayer, let alone to have a great forum, and they still work their day-jobs. And they still give us regular updates every few months. And it's relatively bug free. It's a masterwork by *any* definition.

And on top of the candy mountain of everything good that they've provided us, the new content they're adding gets better and better. Still free, and keeps getting better.

Warhammer, by Games Workshop, has been around for decades. It requires no computer programming. It doesn't even require that the creators or players even own a computer. It does require that they hold down a steady job or other means of income, and devote a significant portion of their time and income to the game. Each army piece is something you can hold in your hand-it's modifiable, it's paintable, it's versatile beyond the normal tin soldier and is definitely an elite wargame of fine quality, but Warhammer gives you an absolute maximum of 20 nations, two of which have been discontinued. It's only got 1 worldmap. It's been around since 1983! It's moddable, in that you can rewrite the rules, but how many of us can make good quality miniatures, from scratch? You can buy new ones, true, but there's the expense of that, the expense of buying the rulebooks, the expense of painting pieces, custom modification, buying extra sets of armies, etc. Cost on top of cost.

Dominions 3 gives you more bang for your buck, for far less, than any other complex hobby that I'm familiar with-and don't fool yourself-Dominions 3 isn't just a game, it's a hobby.

You can make mods with it-we've got about as many mod nations as we do out of the box nations (which is impressive, considering we've got a whole crew of folks who make great nations, compared to two people who've made 56 or more nations, and THE WHOLE REST OF THE GAME!). You can become involved with the forum-I've gone months without even playing Dom3, and still entertained myself by just writing about the game. You can talk to the Devs, and they talk back. They pant alot when they talk, because they're tired! There's even a Dom3 Wiki.

It's more fun than Daggerfall, more accessible than Space Empires (has become), cooler than Civilization, friendlier than Spore, and healthier than Grand Theft Auto.

You can work 10 hours bagging groceries at minimum wage and earn enough money to purchase Dom 3. You can mow the lawns of the elderly and earn it in maybe 3 days, if you're lazy. You can collect cans and loose change and scrapmetal for a week, and probably come up with 60 bucks. For 60 bucks, you can buy a really nice shirt, or take your family out to dinner. It's more money than you're likely to find in the cushions of your couch, or else you really need to clean your couch, but it's not a lot of money. It's not a mortgage payment, or an engagement ring. Nobody's asking that you sell a kidney.

In 10 years I'll still be playing Dominions. Or atleast still writing about it. Hopefully I'll have a new computer before then... It'll still be entertaining, it'll still be fun. Hopefully by then the Devs will have relented and created Dom4? Maybe? Please? Pretty please, with a cherry on top? Because this isn't just another computer game. This isn't Tetris or Doom, or even StarCraft. It's far bigger, far more versatile, far more alive and growing, and-unlike any other computer game of my experience-it can give you back more than you put into it.

Re: Why Dominions 3 isn\'t just another computer game.
 

Yeah but the nations are unbalanced and the forum went down 3 days i mean 3 damn days! and it costs and there are bugs and people don't respect holy NAPs and... and...

I'm just joking http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif this game is great, only its vastness and "personality" would require so many books to be written that warcraft, warhammer and many of these games with lots of books written about them would fade.

Re: Why Dominions 3 isn\'t just another computer game.
 

Not to nitpick because the sentiment is true, but most nations do not have over a score of units. Some of the newer ones do if you count national summons (Lanka, Hinnom, Ashdod). If you say "over a dozen units" I'll agree. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

-Max

Re: Why Dominions 3 isn\'t just another computer ga
 

Can I have some molasses with my honey-sweet fanboi post?

Re: Why Dominions 3 isn\'t just another computer ga
 

In spite of the initially higher-than-normal price, we don't have to pay extra for expansion packs, particularly ones that'll be out for the Macintosh sometime between forever and never.

Re: Why Dominions 3 isn\'t just another computer ga
 

I think units include commanders. Then probably most nations have over 20.

Re: Why Dominions 3 isn\'t just another computer ga
 

Well said. Cheers.

Re: Why Dominions 3 isn\'t just another computer ga
 

Do we have an up-to-date count on things like spells, units, equipment? The initial description gives numbers but Im sure those are out of date. Also someone (better at math than I am) might give us a percentage growth from intial release to present status.
Edi?

Im also curious.
I thought the thread might be trying to figure out WHAT it is about Dominions that gives it such immortal standing on all my computers.

As far as "in 10 years I will still be playing Dominions" that might be true but I will really be hoping to be playing Dominions 9, the Holodeck version.

Re: Why Dominions 3 isn\'t just another computer game.
 

I'll paraphrase your second paragraph:

I really, really hate that attitude (and you'll find people with it on any game forum, from the most mainstream, high-budget one to the most niche indie one.) Everything has flaws, and room for improvement, and they need to be complained about in order for attention to be drawn to them, so they can be fixed.

The rest of that post is just.... kind of unnecessary. We signed up and started posting on this forum just to talk about Dom3. You, in particular, did it ~1800 times. That says more about how we feel about this game's quality than your big, lie-filled wall of text does.

Re: Why Dominions 3 isn\'t just another computer game.
 

Lies? Opinions maybe but something that can be proved as untrue?

After saying that I feel it necessary....
Standard Moderator Warning:
When posts stop being about the subject and start being about the posters then the entire thread is in danger of disappearing.

Re: Why Dominions 3 isn\'t just another computer game.
 

:Moderator Hat On:
Negative comments about the game (if posted appropiately) are welcome.
Negative comments against someone is not. This is part of the forum rules, as Gandalf points out.

Re: Why Dominions 3 isn\'t just another computer ga
 

Yeah, dominions is a great game. It has a vast number of strategic and tactical options and different factions, it's moddable, it has a great turn structure for multiplayer ... and ... well, that's pretty much all you need.

Oh, and the balance is in fact very good, despite complaints. It's not like if someone takes nation x, they are completely doomed against nation y or anything like that. The skill level of the players means much more than the balance factor. The skill factor takes years to build up, and can always improve, whereas the balance factor is fairly small in most cases (esp. using CB mod).

Re: Why Dominions 3 isn\'t just another computer game.
 

RenoJustin, Monkeyfinger, ofcourse you're entitled to your opinion, but I'm sure there are better ways of expressing them than to attack someone so blatantly, personally, and obviously, in a public forum. I'd hate to see you get in trouble.

Re: Why Dominions 3 isn\'t just another computer ga
 

HB, I'm going to suggest, as a non-moderator, that you edit that last post to be a great deal less inflammatory and insulting. And drop the elitism. It isn't terribly becoming.

Re: Why Dominions 3 isn\'t just another computer ga
 

I'm the least elitist person you'll ever meet in your life. I am, however, an enemy of willful, destructive ignorance, particularly when it's directed at me.

Re: Why Dominions 3 isn\'t just another computer ga
 

My only major beef with Dom 3 is the wretched interface. There's a really funny parody to be found here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yg7Xh0m_Oco

"I don't feel like I'm operating the mac so much as I'm just there sharing the mac experience"

That's how I honestly feel when I'm playing Dominions 3. The interface is a real tragedy. At least a quarter of each turn is spend fighting with the interface. Here are a few of my major complaints.

1. Sending gold/items doesn't allow you to see what you've sent, or do anything to modify those. Instead of some kind of GUI allowing you to click and drag items/gold to trade nations, you have to delete every message/item/gold sent whenever you make a mistake.

2. Transferring items between commanders is awkward. Generally I just stick it in the lab and then move it to the commander. The worst part is that the "destroy this item" option is right next to the lab. If you destroy an item, your only recourse is to restart the entire turn. Once I destroyed a flame helm after 25 minutes of a turn, and had to do /everything/ all over again.

3. Sending commanders on long routes is a pain, especially if they're map move 1. I'm not even saying that you should have to build a pathing algorithm into the game, but just being able to hold down shift and que up orders so that they'll move to a far away destination automatically would be great.

4. There is no command to give a commander that allows you to skip them while they're hiding, or while they're doing nothing. Sometimes I have guys just sitting around, and I have to scroll through all of them.

5. This is probably the most irritating. There are NO ARMY STACKS?! In a game when you can field 30+ commanders in the later stages in a single army, or God help you if you're playing LA Ry'leh or Ermor, it would be extremely beneficial to be able to move armies as stacks instead of clicking each commander individually. I must spent 5-6 minutes just double checking my orders each time I send a large stack in to prevent the stealth units from sneaking in and thus not being part of the combat, and to prevent someone from not being selected, or having deleted orders.

6. Scripting. I always have to reinvent the wheel each time I pickup a nation. 0 becomes retreat for all my spies. 1 becomes smitex5. With nations who have easy access to Earth, I always end up with "summon earth power" "blade windx4", with some variations. I would really like to be able to store generic scripts in a text file, and load them in through some kind of click and drag interface rather than creating them each and every time. Scripting is definitely /manageable/ ATM, but it still gobbles up more time then it should.

One more change that would make it more useful. Since you only have 10 scripting slots. Allow the computer to understand the difference between storing a script for a set of units, and for a commander. For instance, the 0 slot could hold the command (Hold->attack archers) for UNITS, and (Retreat) for COMMANDERS. This way you could store twice as many orders. The game can figure out if you're issuing a command to units or commanders based on context and then go fetch the right one.

7. Building. The game really needs an autobuild option that lets you repeat build commands just like you would ritual spells. It would also be a huge boost if you could see the /discounted/ prices in the building window instead of the base prices. Or maybe both would be better, actually.

Anyways, there are still many more issues that I have, but these are the big ones I can think of. Let me say that I have played no game more than I've played Dominions 3. I still get thrashed by players on a regular basis, and the competitive MP is the heart and the soul of the game. And it's an /amazing/ game. The best 50 bucks I've ever spent. If Dom 4 came out tomorrow, I'd put 100 down for it.

But the game has serious issues. Ones that, IMHO, keep the game being adopted by more people. Dom 3 is extremely, *extremely* complicated. I'm still learning new stuff every time I play. So that alone makes the game less accessible to most people, but the interface acts like a multiplier (for good or bad). Something that is a simple problem of learning to play the game becomes that much harder when the interface you're using has to be fought with.

Jazzepi

Re: Why Dominions 3 isn\'t just another computer ga
 

There, that's long enough for my purposes.

Monkeyfinger, I don't mind people complaining about things they don't like. I do mind it when people like yourself-and since you read my earlier post, I'm sure you can paraphraise what my opinion of you happens to be-take it upon themselves to attack me for expressing a positive opinion, in a way that would suggest they think they know anything about me, and yet make it obvious to anyone who does, that they don't have a clue. It's not hypocritical to go against one line of thought, while espousing another. I've never complained about the cost of the game, for instance.

And Sum1lost: I'm sure if your opinion is ever required, you'll be duly informed by whomever requires it. In the meantime, purely for purposes of educating the ignorant (and I hope that does sound elitist, as it's meant to), there's a difference between acting in an "elitist" fashion, and kicking a couple of dogs back down, when they act above their place. And I hope that last sounds positively snobby.

If you or they have a problem with me defending myself against direct, personal attack, then perhaps your best efforts ought to go towards furthering some pacifist philosophy, that we can all hope to live in some shinier, happier world.

Re: Why Dominions 3 isn\'t just another computer ga
 

For the moderators.

I don't see why HB is allowed to lambaste large groups of people who criticize Dom 3 by saying

"Lately, we've had a few posts complaining about the cost of the game, the instability of various servers, problems with the forum, etc. *****, *****, *****, go whine to your mommies, says I."

but others are not allowed to criticize him.

Not that I think that the way Monkeyfinger said what he did was appropriate, but I agree with /some/ of it.

Jazzepi

Re: Why Dominions 3 isn\'t just another computer ga
 

It has to do with my not mentioning any names, or making any personal attacks. It deals with an event that has happened, not the ones who caused the event to happen. I could say, for instance, "forum trolls are dumb" and that wouldn't be against the rules, because it's a general statement that doesn't go against any race, religion, nation, etc. Ofcourse, anyone out there who happened to recognise themselves as forum trolls might take insult, but they aren't required to. It's your choice whether or not you identify yourself with the negativity of the statement, on a personal basis.

Re: Why Dominions 3 isn\'t just another computer ga
 

I'm sorry to hear you feel that way. I'm sure that Monkeyfinger and Renojustin posts stung you in some personal way. I do have some trouble seeing how that entitles you to pee in my formerly delicious cheerios.

Re: Why Dominions 3 isn\'t just another computer ga
 

lulz.

I've just discovered something I'd like to share with all of you.

Lately, we've had a few posts complaining about other players complaining about the game. *****, *****, *****, go whine to your mommies, says I. These people are clearly brainless dolts. I've never seen more hypocritical trolls in my entire life. The forums are brought down by the presence of these unnamed people, whomever they might be.

Jazzepi

Re: Why Dominions 3 isn\'t just another computer ga
 

That analogy doesn't hold because unlike trolling, complaining serves a purpose for the community and staff and you know it. It's a good thing to bring up problems with the forums and the MP servers, so if you respond to that kind of thing with "*****, *****, *****, go whine to your mommies, says I." expect to be personally attacked because you deserve it.

Re: Why Dominions 3 isn\'t just another computer ga
 

Surely you jest. Clearly you mean, "now extra delicious, and fortified with all the vitamins, minerals, and other antioxidants that pee provides."

Jazzepi

Re: Why Dominions 3 isn\'t just another computer ga
 

On a more serious note, antioxidants? I know that pee can be incredibly vitamin and mineral rich, American pee in particular, but I'm not as sure about the antioxidants.

Maybe those will be in an upcoming patch.

Things I don\'t like about Dominions 3.
 

I'll agree with Jazzepi that the interface is clunky.
I'll add that the lack of a strong AI-and moreso, the lack of a programmable AI-is a big downside for me. Even the combat AI isn't that strong.
I know it's not a big deal, and that I can play my own music, but I really wish it were a stronger aspect of the game, since the little we have with the game is tantalizing.
Staring at a more or less blank screen, reading the same 3 or 4 tips each turn, just plain sucks. Again, I know I could go do something else, but I'd rather have something game-related and interesting to look at.
The nations that come with the game, while multitudinous, still downplay the same parts of the world that are typically ignored or downplayed in other games, namely North and South America, Russia, India, Asia, Australia, Oceania, and Africa. Where these areas have nations, they are usually very typical, being based on China, Japan, and a generic African tribe. It's very Sweden-centric, if that can be a word. Being an American, I ofcourse understand the desire, but it's still something I find faulty. The only one that really stands out as different is the one based on India, and that draws heavily from Kipling, who was English.
Forgeable items really should be Age specific. That just makes sense.
There's no graphical reason (although I can understand processing requirements) why units couldn't and shouldn't have more than 2 images. Even if it's optional.
Some of the ways stats are handled seems arbitrary and needlessly generic. Hitpoints, for instance-it would make more sense to me if they were linked to size. Size itself, being of such importance that it has various game mechanics built around it, seems very limited at from 1-6. If hitpoints only went from 1-6, you can probably see how limiting that would be.
Another thing that irks me a bit is how certain aspects of the game are very independent from standard fantasy tropes, while others seem quite generic-eg. we don't have even Tolkien equivalent elves (which are more original than the average fantasy elf), but we do have D&D equivalent dragons (which are-if anything-less original than average).

Now, all of these things I've already addressed, at length, in other posts. Sometimes more than once. So no, I don't think Dominions 3 is perfect. I do think it's a fantastic game, that easily lends itself to being a hobby-and a very inexpensive one, which was the point of the thread.

Re: Why Dominions 3 isn\'t just another computer ga
 

Actually complaining is not always automatically good for things.
In fact, its been shown numerous times that in this case it is quite non-beneficial. It does not serve the desired purpose with the staff of Shrapnel, tends to have quite the opposite effect on the game developers, and as far as the benefits to the community... well as far as I can see the only benefit was the consolidation of the opposition. Feel free to read back thru years of posts in the Dom3 forum and the Dom2 forum to see what I mean.
Compare the tone of the threads with the results.

Re: Things I don\'t like about Dominions 3.
 

Pee also has powerful antibiotic properties, and can protect you from the vicious sting of the jellyfish.

Re: Why Dominions 3 isn\'t just another computer ga
 

Obviously. But if the problem being complained about is legit - and the ones mentioned at the start of this topic sound like they are...

It should if something of theirs isn't working properly, they need to know about it.

"Opposite"? what are you saying, that when people suggest something that needs to be fixed or changed the developers do the exact opposite of what they said out of spite or something?

Re: Why Dominions 3 isn\'t just another computer ga
 

There was a moderately amusing incident where some board members got upset and vocal about the "I want my dominions 3" advertisements. The response was to create some new ones featureing surfer dudes instead of random female models.

Re: Why Dominions 3 isn\'t just another computer ga
 

Besides, Sum1lost, if you choose to put your cheerios in a urinal, how can you complain when they end up in the path of pee?

Re: Why Dominions 3 isn\'t just another computer ga
 

That actually is pretty funny, but only because people were getting butthurt over something that doesn't actually affect D3 or its forums in any way.

If the developers pulled something like that in response to someone complaining about a game feature or maybe a lack thereof, that wouldn't be funny, that would be retarded.

Re: Why Dominions 3 isn\'t just another computer ga
 

Not at all. But you notice how you changed the tone just now?
My comment was about your support of "complaining", which you have switched to "suggest". Quite a difference and with quite different results as far as I can tell.

Other options would be explain, demonstrate, request, or "interest them in". All slightly different than "complain". There are many threads here already which explain why the usual customer logic does not tend to do well. Reading up on why Shrapnel is not one of "those" companies, and why Illwinter is not one of "those" game developers can help smooth the path. Everything has its pros and cons. I rather like things this way.

Re: Why Dominions 3 isn\'t just another computer ga
 

The following might help answer your question and add some perspective to what Gandalf is trying to say.

A fairly recent post by KO:
I think that it is about people and how you approach them. For some reason when folks communicate through a keyboard, they tend to lose some of their natural ability to deal with people. If I were constantly bombarded with this sucks & that sucks about whatever project I might be working on, I guarantee you that I would quickly lose interest and go do something else.

There are many different ways to say many different things. I am sure that there are times when something I write here on the forums comes across entirely different than I intended. Such is the web. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Why Dominions 3 isn\'t just another computer ga
 

I think-atleast I hope-that what Gandalf means when he says the word "complain"-what was really happening was that people were viciously demanding features that would have been difficult and time-consuming to implement, while calling the Devs names and questioning their integrity.

Atleast something that went beyond simply requesting a new feature, or suggesting that a current feature might be more efficient in a different incarnation, in a polite and respectful way.

Re: Why Dominions 3 isn\'t just another computer ga
 

It's funny, and moving, how Gandalf-having been a soldier for many years-is more a man of peace and diplomacy than I am, when it comes down to the ugly bits.

Quite inspirational.

I wonder who's going to be first in line to complain about how "sappy" or "saccharine" that particular sentiment is?

Re: Why Dominions 3 isn\'t just another computer ga
 

Well, I didn't notice that kind of belligerence from the people complaining about the issues you talked about in the first post. Unlike Gandalf I still call it complaining even if it's civil, but I don't necessarily see it as a bad thing. So basically Gandalf and I define "complain" differently and our whole disagreement is a semantics argument.

Man. I hate it when that happens.

Under my definition of complain KO comes off as being unable to handle criticism, but then, he was probably referring to people being dicks about how they voiced their problem too, wasn't he? That post just doesn't tell me much out of context, I can't make anything resembling an accurate judgment based on it.

I hate that too.

Re: Why Dominions 3 isn\'t just another computer ga
 

Wow - what a thread. It starts with compliments to the game and the works of devs and ends up like this. personal flamewars and the same complains we've heard 1 million times. uff http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/fear.gif

Re: Why Dominions 3 isn\'t just another computer ga
 

It troubles me too, to be honest. It's one of those issues that is ambiguous enough that you want to pick their brains, and ultimately you can't. And the forum by this point is so big, how can you go back and right old wrongs? Even if they're not your responsibility. Heck, they might have been said about a nation back in Dominions 2, or further, for all we know. Kristoffer might even be remembering wrong about particular nations and what may have been said. Ofcourse, if he reads this post, he's going to decide we're all dicks anyway-I haven't, recognised and by choice, acted any more noble than anyone else.

I don't particularly enjoy writing posts like this one, you know? The sentiment's definitely there, I love the game, but inevitably it causes problems and upsets that could be avoided, and I personally don't feel it should be necessary to come out and praise the game in such an elaborate, staged way. But what else is there to do?

I don't know what the problem is, I don't know how much of it is my responsibility, and I don't know how to solve it, but Dominions 3 has been good to me, and I want to give something back, and I'm broke, so I give of myself. Not as a bribe for new features-I'm not a whore, thank you, whatever you might think of me-but because appreciation is due.

Re: Why Dominions 3 isn\'t just another computer ga
 

Wow, what a mess. O.O

This is why they invented the public baths you know, it really has nothing to do with cleanliness and sanitation.

It's because with just a towel, there's nowhere to hide a weapon - and it's just too hard to become uncivilized with so much steam in your lungs. It's genius, pure genius I say.


The odd thing I see about the attacks, is that Badger isn't saying anywhere that this is the most awesomest™ game ever, with no flaws, and no other game will ever surpass it..... Just trying to remind the current wave of superficially angry sots, that they are unlikely to (if they enjoy Dom at all) find another recreational outlet that is anywhere near as cost effective. And he got a bit rapturous on the way, so I can see how people might find that upsetting or reproachable, and have this great urge to criticize. o.O

Definitely not the most eloquent Badger post I've ever seen, a bit of limp is like chumming these waters. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/redface.gif


Oh and Monkey, it amuses to me no end that you characterize KO as being "unable to handle criticism". Guess what, it doesn't matter, or rather it does, but it's YOUR problem, not his. See, making, fixing, and upgrading this game is a hobby to him. He does it for fun. You're not paying his bills, you're just a sideline that helps him justify the absolutely immense amounts of time he gets to spend poring over code. If he's sensitive, it's because he's not one of those goons at a major studio, who works until their fingers bleed for fear of being whipped and/or fired if their particular piece of assembly-line programming assembly doesn't come out on time or doesn't make enough profit for some jerk who knows -nothing- about what makes a game have a lasting perception of value. Maybe at other companies, you have to be the squeaky wheel, because if you aren't, someone else is. And in those cases, you are going over the heads of the actual programmers, to someone who will tell them what to do. Then you can be as brutal to them as you want, because the person who actually orders the fix, is not the one whose code you are bashing. It's not like that here. You don't clog the forums with posts that all say "Illwinter we want justice!". You just say, "hey Kris, wouldn't it be better like this?". And you get an honest answer, you either get what you want, or you get the most polite no you'll ever receive in your life.


Just to reiterate, for those with a short attention span - JK and KO are not your clients, you are not some corporate consumer who gets to feel special by virtue of whose pockets you are lining. These two fine gentlemen are seriously more like a couple of friends. Internet friends that you aren't incredibly close to perhaps, but still, just a couple of cool guys who you share some interests with. They're not here to get rich, and they've already made enough money with Dom to tell you to shove it if you can't show them respect and kindness.

That is, if someone like me or Badger doesn't tell you to shove it first. <3

Re: Why Dominions 3 isn\'t just another computer ga
 

Exactly. He seemed to be saying.. we have lots of whiny threads lately, so lets have one to balance the scales abit.

I know that people come in here thinking (in a standard way for some places on earth) that "you will put up with my rudeness because I am a customer". I dont so much mind that in new people. I try to explain things altho we do have some oldtimers who still cant seem to shake that notion.

If you read about Shrapnel here then you get some idea why they arent just another money-grubbing conglomerate trying to get rich off of you and developers. In fact, they were basically started in response to such companies.

If you read about Illwinter here (which isnt much) you start to get a feel. Searching back thru the devs posts you will see responses where people have tried to use money as an argument and received the answer many MANY times that the two of them have day jobs. What they do for us, they do for fun. If you want them to do, then make it fun. If you want to blow it, make it unfun.

Now neither of these companies are the type to say "why should we do anything since you already bought the game". But keep in mind that is true none-the-less. What we want of them now (forums, support, more patches, more upgrades, more documentation) are things they are doing for free and fun. I only want that fact to be apparent in the way people ask.

Mostly because I have SEEN some of the things I most wanted put into the game fall on the side because someone jumped to my cause who changed it from a request to a demand with insults sprinkled on top. There are some people here that you never want on your side when you want something added to the game.

Re: Why Dominions 3 isn\'t just another computer ga
 

I suppose I should have proofread it a bit more, but I was busy having a life at the time.

Re: Why Dominions 3 isn\'t just another computer ga
 

Ahhh now thats not fair.

Re: Why Dominions 3 isn\'t just another computer ga
 

Well, you might think it more fair if I tell you I was helping my wife set up her own computer. We've been waiting many moons for her to be able to work at home too (pretty much everybody at our company does, atleast at her level, which is one step up from my own), and now she finally can, for 2 days a week, instead of commuting 80 miles back and forth every day, at current gas prices.

Re: Why Dominions 3 isn\'t just another computer ga
 

Ahhh good show.
Now get her hooked on Dom3. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

We are totally addicted here. I have two desktops, and two servers. Both sons have their own computers. My wife has her own, plus she is in the process of adding a laptop for her job.

Re: Why Dominions 3 isn\'t just another computer ga
 

My wife-and I love her dearly for it-tolerates me. That's about all I'm going to hope for http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: Why Dominions 3 isn\'t just another computer ga
 

It's like you only read the first part of that sentence you responded to or something.

Re: Why Dominions 3 isn\'t just another computer ga
 

Monkeyfinger,

I hardly say this to someone.
But I'm starting to find you... quite belligerant.
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image.../beerglass.gif Let's have a beer together (spiritually? ^^) and relax ok? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: Why Dominions 3 isn\'t just another computer ga
 

Post deleted, with horror, by llamabeast.

Re: Why Dominions 3 isn\'t just another computer ga
 

I am locking this thread because Monkeyfinger has gone completely out of line. Those who know me know I wouldn't do such a thing lightly. Also I'm sorry to do this, because the thread was very well intentioned. It's a pity it went haywire.

Those who didn't see the link from the above post are lucky. It was malicious at the least. I'm just glad I'm running linux.

I'm going to talk to the forum admins about getting Monkeyfinger banned.