Suggestion for new Oceana units
 

Going under the assumption that KO will add whatever inspires him, I thought I'd suggest a few very cool, thematic things that might be added to MA Oceana. Some of these would be summoned, some might make sense to be recruitable.

MA Oceana:
Giant crocodile - how cool is that? Powerful bite can have an entangling effect similar to Machaka's spiders making it good for taking down large thugs, er...game.

Scylla - from the same Homer as Sirens, kind of an amphibious hydra. Aside from being hella cool, this could give Oceana a good poison immune amphibian to leverage one of the few things than can cast well - poison. "Scylla was a horribly grotesque sea monster, with six long necks equipped with grisly heads, each of which contained three rows of sharp teeth. Her body consisted of twelve canine legs and a cat's tail."

Selkie - Kind of a A/W niad, giving Oceana access to a strong air mage. "The shy Selkies are marine creatures in the shape of a seal. They can be found near the islands of Orkney and Shetland. A female can shed her skin and come ashore as a beautiful woman. When a man finds the skin, he can force the Selkie to be a good, if somewhat sad, wife. Should she ever recover the skin, she will immediately return to sea, leaving her husband behind. The male Selkies are responsible for storms and also for the sinking of ships, which is their way of avenging the hunting of seals."

All in all I think Oceana could be retouched to be more of a raging sea/storm type theme with good air magic. This is closer to Pangea's "nature is pissed off" motif, and would not only go a long way towards making Oceana more competitive, it would also add a strong differentiation to them as a water nation. They already seem more generally amphibious than the other water nations (other than the crippling of their mages), making them a water/air/nature nation would be pretty cool while certainly leaving them nothing like Caelum or the various A/N nations. They've got good raiders, theming them as reaver coast raiders was a lot of in fun Kingmaker - I was thinking along the lines of the Greyjoys from A Song of Ice and Fire.

Re: Suggestion for new Oceana units
 

I like the idea of an amphibious hydra of sorts, probably as a nature/water summon that can be cast underwater to help you get onto land.

Also since the nation was inspired by medieval bestiaries, here's a random online bestiary and an interesting entry.

http://bestiary.ca/beasts/beast244.htm

Re: Suggestion for new Oceana units
 

I like the sea/storm idea. Water/Air is not a common combination. Would be nice to get some useful national combat spells along those lines, along with summons. The only underwater idea that comes to mind is a Drowning in Air that suffocates aquatics.

Simplest boost, though, would be to not cripple Capricorns ashore. Just drop their water path, maybe even boost Earth?

Re: Suggestion for new Oceana units
 

I also like the idea of a crocodile summons. Considering the importance of crocodiles in mythology, their absence from the game is unfortunate and strange.

Re: Suggestion for new Oceana units
 

This could be fun:

Make the Ichtycentaurs & Trident Knights BETTER on land than in the water. It would make for a neat dichotomy, with the Capricorns being good in water & bad on land.

Perhaps make them Poor Amphibians (so -3Att, -3Def, +1Enc underwater), compensating by giving +2Att, +2Def, -2Enc?

Thus in the sea...
Ichtycentaur: 9Att, 16Def, 3Enc
Trident Knight: 10Att, 15Def, 7Enc

On land...
Ichtycentaur: 12Att, 19Def, 2Enc
Trident Knight: 13Att, 18Def, 6Enc

Could be explained as follows: "Unlike most amphibians, ichtycentaurs have evolved from land-dwelling ancestors. Their bodies are therefore not quite suited for movement through water, a handicap they've overcome by developing tremendous stamina. All ichtycentaurs have amazing endurance, making them fearsome warriors above the waves."

Gives them a Navy Seals feel. Trident Knights are now worthy of an E9 bless (22Prot, 2Enc, Amphibious is unheard of), and the ichtycentaurs are submarine PD killers. Also gives Oceania some survivability vs. Rlyeh as they can now take & hold land. Aesthetically pleasing too...no drastic changes & works within the game's mechanics.

Also, I'll continue to suggest that the Capricorns become (100% +2 ENWA), from (100% +1 ENWA, 10% +1 ENWA) so that they can bring their meager earth & air magic on shore.

Though I do like your suggestions Baalz.

Re: Suggestion for new Oceana units
 

Crocodiles I'll also vote for! I wouldn't say they should entangle, however - this could be left for some separate units (sea snakes, coralls, etc.). But crocodiles have a nice habit of using their tails for leg-breaking attacks - which would also be painful for enemy thugs.
Also, we could dig into actual Oceanian mythology, as the name itself suggests (unfortunately, I'm not good in that, but I'm sure we can dig out something interesting).
I do not think that they should have their best units made better on land than in water, though - something else must be found.

Re: Suggestion for new Oceana units
 

This "Raging Sea" concept is beautiful, good thinking!

I like the "Drowning in Air" spell, which like Sailor's Death would fill the gills of an aquatic creature with gases. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

Also, this is not specific to MA Oceania, as they're amphibious already, but it makes me think it would be nice if there were a ritual that would make a specific commander able to leave the sea AND bring some amount (10 or 20 maybe?) of aquatic creatures with them. This would be especially meaningful to EA Oceania and EA R'lyeh.

As for the mages, rather than a change that makes them stronger underwater (which may not be acceptable by design), at least make them similar to Slave Mages, where they only lose 1W, but keep their other paths. This is still really detrimental, but not a complete crippling of the caster.

Re: Suggestion for new Oceana units
 

Some suggestions :

A chariot drawn by hippocampi or dolphins

A very big and very hungry shark

Loch Ness monster

Mosasaurus like monster

Jörmungandr (though would be a nordic nations specific summon)

Charybdis (like a living whirlpool)

Re: Suggestion for new Oceana units
 

I really like Cleveland's idea of making Ichtycentaurs more powerful in land. A group of strange beings coming up from the waves, jumping into air and coming down on four legs, and charging. Also, Ichtycentaurs (and other Oceania amphibious guys) could be given Swamp Survival. It's just a minor bonus, but it'd mean Oceania can use Quagmire to give their troops an edge aboveground.

Oceania reminds me of Gene Wolfe's Knight Wizard duology, which I just re-read thanks to a thread in these forums. In the books, "strength of the sea" is described as being able to come at you again and again like the waves, never stopping and never growing tired; to fall down when felled to rise again, like a tide, with enough strength to crush mountains. I thought of this because earth-blessed ichtycentaurs would have abilities similar to those the knight taught about the sea had: reinvigoration, rejuvenation and ability to survive underwater.



Baalz' suggestions are well-thought, except that I don't think Crocodiles should be their own summon. Crocodiles and perhaps some amphibious creatures summonable in swamps and coastal provinces with Summon Animals would be nice, but even big crocodiles are just weaker cave drakes, and not even really amphibious. Shark Knights are awesome, but Oceania's ichtycentaurs are supposed to be their underwater cavalry, so they shouldn't be necessary. Some denizen of the deep is more interesting. Perhaps access to the Bogarus remote summons, or similar new spells?

Re: Suggestion for new Oceana units
 

I think even Pangaea, specially the MA one should have access to some amphibians summons.
This could be thematically reasonable, given the fact that in MA the ocean has been somewhat overran by "evil races", and the ocean and the wild are supposed to be nature allies.

I also like Baalz' suggestion and cannot stop imagining their appearances now.

Re: Suggestion for new Oceana units
 

Endo, the inclusion of SS is brilliant. I really think Survival traits would add new layers of strategy if more widely applied, and this is an excellent example. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

Re: Suggestion for new Oceana units
 

I'm dead set against them getting swamp survival. I don't see why they should. They aren't swamp dwelling races. If it's on the basis of them being amphibious, why not give all amphibians swamp survival?

Re: Suggestion for new Oceana units
 

One thing I've always wanted to see was the Great Kraken as an Ammonite. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ammonite
I find them much more interesting that simply bigger and bigger squids, maybe because I've actually held their fossils in my hands, but it would be fantastic if the Great Kraken could be a survivor of this extinct (as far as we know) species.

Another thing that could be fun is if there were some type of fossilized Ammonite underwater summons. Imagine a Great Kraken, only now it's made from living stone.

There are all kinds of really interesting extinct animals out there that could be put back into the game in various ways and forms, to very good use.

Re: Suggestion for new Oceana units
 

Why not indeed? But I think it's more on the basis that they are aquatic origin amphibians, as opposed to land origin amphibians. That distinction may be important, may not be. Like I said, I think Survival traits should be more widespread - not because of the Supply issue, but because it opens up options for movement. And in this case, new strategic options for a nation that has few of them currently.

Re: Suggestion for new Oceana units
 

It came from thinking if it would be possible to have Ichtycentaurs run on water, i.e. sailing for Ichtycentaurs lead by Ichtycentaurs. I realized the current Sailing command wouldn't work and implementing another mechanic would be a huge process at this point, so I didn't even mention it in my post.
Then, from that, I thought that at the very least they should be able to do that on swamps. I liked the mechanical effect it would give them, so I suggested Swamp Survival.

Re: Suggestion for new Oceana units
 

This thread is so damn exciting... the idea of "nature is pissed off" applied to the ocean guys seem great to me http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

As I wasn't able to find a guide to MA Oceania and didn't play it yet, I just would like if someone tells me briefly what are this nations weaknesses and strong points and how does it play usually in early, mid, late game. Briefly ^_^

Because I would like to find something imaginative and nice too, but also not completely unbalanced or twisting to its natural gameplay.

The ideas I liked the most for now are the crocodile (it could be a nice water/nature summon) and the chariot lead by hippocampi or dolphins ^^ And even the amphibian Ichtycentaurs gallopping furiously on the surface of water (and the consequently swamp survival trait) is an EPIC image http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: Suggestion for new Oceana units
 

Dolphin chariot is good idea. Though it's possible that it won't add so much to Oceania specifically. According to MA idea of more advanced technology, they could gain some harpoon-throwing troops, though...
Considering Ammonite - it could be cool idea, but unfortunately, this would be trading much movement for some more protection. And fossils are out of question here, as such fossils would only contain shell - so nothing to reanimate... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif In any case some type of Kraken mage summon would be cool for this purely aquatic race. Another possibility could be well-armored giant slug(s) with some special effects or crabs which could leave water...
Considering swamp survival: this is good idea in my opinion, but maybe not so appropriate for ichtycentaurs... Maybe some special unti/summon (like the above-mentioned slugs) could be better.
Another beast often forgotten is hyppopotamus - that's quite amphibious creature (though it breathes with lungs just as crocodiles do) with trampling and very healthy bite, though it's somewhat smaller than elephant (size 5?).

Re: Suggestion for new Oceana units
 

Actually, the hyppo is the 2nd beast in Africa for number of men slaughtering... but it still reminds me too much the Disney ones XD

Well, jokes aside, on a second thought maybe - maybe - the hyppo as well as the crocodyle are a little too far from the "Raging Sea" that was in the ideas of Baalz and others.
Maybe they should be common nature/water summons?
For MA Oceania many of the other creatures people talked about seem nice... except IMHO Scylla... the Odyssey is very unclear about its nature, it's just some kind of hydra with 12 heads but not a lot more is known... not so original I think. ^_^ Maybe the Northern myths are more fitting?

Re: Suggestion for new Oceana units
 

The reason I really like the Scylla is because

1) It fits very well thematically with a nation that already has Sirens

2) It fits very well from a gameplay point of view for a nation that *really* someting amphibious, poison resistant, and tough enough to frontline.

3) It wouldn't need to be just like a hydra, and knowing Illwinter I doubt it would. It could be smaller, have no poison aura, no regeneration, more armor, more fear, is a berserker, doesn't use the same head loss mechanic, etc. There are lots of ways that it could be made to play drastically different than the hydra, and the very ambiguousness about it's nature plus a little creative license give a lot of leeway.

4) It's just hella cool

Re: Suggestion for new Oceana units
 

Hidden in Snow: frozen corpses that have survived in ancient glaciers
Hidden in Sand: corpses mummified and protected by dry sand of ancient deserts
Reawaken Fossil: LA Abysia national spell to reanimate "the fossilized giants once defeated by fire in the valley of Megiddo"

1+2 = Hidden Under the Waves?
Water/Nature Aboleth hybrid crossbreed monsters with various terrifying abilities?
Water/Death ammonite monsters with thick shells and lots of tentacles? (I suggest nipponite shells.)
Water/Earth for something that lives deep, VERY deep! Things somewhat like the EA Atlantis Deep Ones, but worse. Perhaps a swarm of hivemind-worms, something like mindless Aboleth polyps?

Things like eel/oar fish, ray fish or something like that is strange.

EDIT: It seems question marks in the url only work in preview... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

Re: Suggestion for new Oceana units
 

Pod of Orca http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: Suggestion for new Oceana units
 

Make it so http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Suggestion for new Oceana units
 

For Scylla, if she's to be a unique monster, might I refer you to the movie "Deep Rising"?. Yes it's awful, in so many ways, but it's fun in it's awfulness, and the monster-while one of the worse CGI incarnations out there-had enough uniqueness to it to render it interesting fodder for artistic salvage. For that matter, since I'm on an ammonite kick, how about an ammonite Great Kraken who's arms are actually heads?

And what about Charybdis, the living vortex?

Re: Suggestion for new Oceana units
 

For a bevy of interesting summons, might I suggest drawing inspiration from the drawings of sea life that'd show up on old maps and charts as decoration? You know the ones I'm talking about, back when a lobster was depicted as having a mammal head and two jets of water shooting out of its face and a whale was pretty much exactly the same thing but without claws. That stuff was pretty weird and would really fit the bill for an aquatic nation based on semi-medieval european notion of what the ocean was like.

Here there be dragons!
 

Yeah,TheMenacer, that's a great idea! Some of those creatures depicted were really fun.

Here's what Wiki has to say on the subject: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Here_be...ragons_on_maps

Re: Here there be dragons!
 

I've got an idea! I live in Florence, now I go down to Sicilia to find those goddamn Scylla and Carybdis, stun the with punches and bring them here so we can do those goddamn sprites http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/stupid.gif

Re: Here there be dragons!
 

TheMenacer's idea is good. Unfortunately I have no information on hand and don't trust Wikipedia much.
I should humbly point out that while glaciers and desert sands actually do allow a good preservation of corpses, be they human or otherwise, sea waters don't! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif They have just too good conditions for scavengers and decay-inducing bacteria. So there are almost no legends about dead in sea unless they are ghosts - and those are already in the game, actually in several incarnations.
Furthermore, Deep Ones and similar creatures are already in Atlantis army list (and some in R'lyeh). So it wouldn't be in style to include them in Oceania - they won't fit thematically. Triton shell chariots, on the other hand, were depicted often.. Speaking of which, maybe triton shell blowers should be added as well. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif
Some living corals/coral statues would be better - and probably fit theme more. Orcas would be cool as well - but it would be difficult to make them clearly different from sharks in game terms I suspect... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif I agree to "nature is pissed" concept for this nation, by the way.
Considering Scylla & Charybdis - they would be cool, but they are unique, so wouldn't probably do too much to add to general Oceania might.

Re: Here there be dragons!
 

I don't trust Wiki any more than any other extremely large body of information that any yahoo can edit as they see fit (history, anyone?). Or for that matter, anything I read or see on television or the Internet, or with my own eyes (I happen to be a fan of Criss Angel). But it remains an extremely large body of information. It's not something you necessarily need to trust. It's there to use, and can at the very least serve as a stepping-stone to greater knowledge and awareness.

Reality is what you decide it is, or what you're forced to accept as real. If you refuse to accept that your human experience conform to nothing other than scientifically provable facts, then why bother playing video games or reading books or using your imagination at all, when you could be cuddling up with a calculator?

Re: Here there be dragons!
 

> Scylla - from the same Homer as Sirens, kind of an amphibious hydra. Aside from being hella cool, this could give Oceana a good poison immune amphibian to leverage one of the few things than can cast well - poison. "Scylla was a horribly grotesque sea monster, with six long necks equipped with grisly heads, each of which contained three rows of sharp teeth. Her body consisted of twelve canine legs and a cat's tail."

Actually Scylla is already in the game, as the drakaina pretender. I used the slightly more bizzare version of her with a female torso, fish tail with six baying dogs at the waist.

But the capricorns might need some leverage. I'm quite fond of half-fish.

Re: Here there be dragons!
 

Yes! I knew it seemed familiar! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif
Msy I also humbly suggest something like real-world amphibious fishes? (say, latimeria-like?) http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif Maybe even with triton/mermen riders?

Re: Here there be dragons!
 

I'd hesitate to focus to much on new animal summons, at least as a way to boost Oceania. They may be cool, but with animal MR, they'd only be useful in the early game and not against R'lyeh even then.

I do like the giant fossil ammonites. But then ammonites are just neat.

Re: Here there be dragons!
 

"In Babylonian myths, Tiamat is a huge, bloated female dragon that personifies the saltwater ocean, the water of Chaos. She is also the primordial mother of all that exists, including the gods themselves. Her consort is Apsu, the personification of the freshwater abyss that lies beneath the Earth. From their union, saltwater with freshwater, the first pair of gods were born. They are Lachmu and Lachamu, parents of Ansar and Kisar, grandparents of Anu and Ea.

In the creation epic Enuma elish, written around 2000 BCE, their descendants started to irritate Tiamat and Apsu so they decided to kill their offspring. Ea discovered their plans and he managed to kill Apsu while the latter was asleep. Tiamat flew into a rage when she learned about Apsu's death and wanted to avenge her husband. She created an army of monstrous creatures, which was to be led by her new consort Kingu, who is also her son. Eventually, Tiamat was defeated by the young god Marduk, who was born in the deep freshwater sea. "

I was thinking along the lines of wrathful seas that Tiamat is the logical angle to extend MA Oceana thematically, being the goddess of chaos and saltwater and already referenced in the game. Probably too powerful to be directly summoned, but she's also famous for creating a hoard of monsters.

"Meanwhile, Tiamat created monster serpents as her invincible weapons. She filled their bodies with venom instead of blood and gave them sharp teeth and long fangs. She fashioned terrifying dragons and crowned them with halos like the gods, so that anyone who looked upon them would perish from fright. Once the serpents stood upright, no one would be able to stand against them. She created eleven monsters in all: the viper, the dragon, the sphinx, the great lion, the mad dog, the scorpion-man, three might storm demons, the dragonfly, and the centaur."

Re: Here there be dragons!
 

I was thinking along the lines of wrathful seas that Tiamat is the logical angle to extend MA Oceana thematically, being the goddess of chaos and saltwater and already referenced in the game. Probably too powerful to be directly summoned, but she's also famous for creating a hoard of monsters.

Re: Here there be dragons!
 

Well she could maybe be a well-fitting national Pretender http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif if the Raging Sea theme finds its way to the light of the sun

Re: Here there be dragons!
 

There are also more water nymphs that aren't currently in Dominions. Technically naiads are river nymphs, whereas nereids are sea nymphs, and oceanids are ocean nymphs. I'm not sure if they provide any gameplay benefits to Oceania and their plight, but perhaps they could provide path diversity but be relegated to water provinces and deep sea provinces respectively.

Re: Here there be dragons!
 

Considering Tiamat - yes, she would be a fitting Pretender (or unique summon in any case)... but this wouldn't fix the general problem. Storm demons may be better - especially as there is no Air+Blood summonable commanders. But here we should also the way to summon them, i.e., Blood mages for Oceania to get (and it can't blood hunt uder the waves in any case).
Considering animals' low MR - at least Orcas could well have MR on par with humans - they are very clever guys! The same could go for Kraken mages... And corall-based monsters can have higher MR for being decentralized organisms with just no central brain/soul to affect with spells/mind blasts/dominations. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif
About water nymphs - yes, there were a lot of them. We also shouldn't forget Nerejos himself - father of one kind of those - who was a shapeshifter and almost could wrestle Heracles to stalemate. And Achilles himself was a sone of one of water nymphs! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif So it seems we can have an opportunity to include some real thugs here...

Re: Here there be dragons!
 

Nah, there are several demons in the game who are summoned with gems rather than blood slaves (mostly national summons). A sea storm demon would make sense to be summoned with W/A, and wouldn't necessarily need to be a commander.

Orca aren't any significant amount smarter than elephants, kinda breaks the paradigm to give them higher MR. Doesn't mean it couldn't be cool, how about a remote attack spell like call of the wild? I don't see orca being frontline soldiers going toe to toe with heavily armed armies in any case, but perhaps stealthy raiders.


Haha, I think I've talked myself into doing a mod nation. Lets see if I can figure out this modding stuff.

Re: Here there be dragons!
 

I have just one word:
JELLYFISH!

Re: Here there be dragons!
 

Many good ideas, but it is laughable that Oceania should get crocs, when MA Ctis does not even have Gators in its swamps.

Swamps are loaded with gators, Oceans are not inudated with crocs.

I see no reason that Oceania has to lose magic when their mages leave the water. Maybe gain air, and lose water. But they really cannot afford to have their mages just get weaker.

One thing Baalz did not do in Kingmaker, to my knowledge, is take a bless with his sacred troops. Maybe the knights can be tweaked to make them a better bless troop.

That may be the easiest fix of all. make the sacreds a bit better, and have their mages gain air, and lose water, rather than just lose magic on land.

Re: Here there be dragons!
 

Hi, new to game so I haven't played Oceania yet....but do they have any good siege units? First thing this topic made me think of was big narwhal-like beasts that would employ their drill-like horns to get a siege bonus.

Re: Here there be dragons!
 

oooh a narwhale I like those... good idea http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Here there be dragons!
 

Narwhal that become unicorns when they land?


The horns don't work like drills, though. They're more like lances or something.

Re: Here there be dragons!
 

Jellyfish would be great-This reminds me of Man-O-Wars. Those things are just terrifying, even if they aren't really jellyfish.

And how about manta rays? They did for poor Steve Irwin, afterall. There's a vampiric version of them in D&D too, but the name is more or less unpronounceable, so maybe they could come in regular and undead varieties. Maybe they could be ocean flyers?

I've been wanting to mod in a nation that used undead Aboleths, huge size 6 trampling sea urchins, and giant immobile cone snail that shoot a poisoned harpoon at it's enemies, functioning like an underwater ballista, but so far haven't had the chance. Maybe if I can find my notes, I'll do a write up for it, like Partha. It's basically an underwater MA Aboleth nation that's based on the Mamluk Egyptian (pre 7th cruisade, 1249 ad.) Sultanate.

Re: Here there be dragons!
 

To HoneyBadger:
Surely bring it out! Sea urchins and snails particularly. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif And jellyfish should be present, certainly. English name slipped me earlier, but they and coralls should make a long way toward making Oceania feared! Also, while jellyfish would probably remain aquatic only, coralls can be amphibious... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif Hey, there IS a possibility of making something like the said Man-o-War which is floating in the air, baloon-like. It can be filled with something like hydrogene or methane and so explode when dying. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif
Manta Rays I think not particularly impressive (they surely ARE, from cosmetic point of view, but that's it). Except this could allow to include electrical one... however, there are other electricity-producing fishes.
" Xietor: Swamps are loaded with gators, Oceans are not inudated with crocs."
While I agree that for C'tis, etc. not having gators is a glaring oversight http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif there ARE at least couple of species of ocean-going crocs. The Indian gavial (iir spelling c) isn't very impressive with its dolphin-style beak, but Pacific one is the biggest croc on Earth, reaching up to 10 meters!
To Baalz: Orcas having bad time against armored troops?! You are joking! These guys have up to 6-10 meters length iirc and VERY impressive teeth! Raiding they would perform admirably, too, though. Maybe spermacete whale of Moby Dick kind could be added if you want something STILL more impressive. I don't remember whether it's possible to include supersonic attack for him, but what the hell...

Re: Here there be dragons!
 

C'tis should have crocs, not gators.

Here there be mantas!
 

Mantas not impressive? As I mentioned, one of them killed the man who used to *toy with crocodiles!* on national television! Not to mention, snakes with venom so very deadly that a single drop can kill you before your next heartbeat. They're close relatives of sharks, and while they may not be the most aggressive animals in the world, they obviously aren't much into cuddling, or showbusiness. And if you've ever read 'The Black Pearl', you'll note their nickname, "El Diablo".

Re: Here there be mantas!
 

Snakes are completely other question, though I agree that sea ones have more potent venom than land-dwelling ones. But let's not digress. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif
No, I didn't read "The Black Pearl". Nor probably intend to. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif And I'm not much impressed with anything someone might do on national TV. Expecially at our age of sofisticated montaging. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smirk.gif And that setting aside the fact that most crocodiles aren't very agressive either - they simply don't need as much to eat as mammal carnivores, being cold-blooded as they are. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif (Actually, term "agression" is somewhat misplaced here, but that will also lead us far to the side...) And in showbusiness mantas are actually well established afaik - they are quite the looks with their mode of movement, after all. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif But this doesn't make them dangerous for those who leave them alone (this will include not to step of them! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif ). They are slow-moving, for one thing, and their teeth are quite unsuitable for large prey. As for close relations - well, donkey is quite close relative of rhinoceros, and this doesn't make him killer! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

Re: Here there be mantas!
 

All of that may or may not have some sort of basis in fact, Wrana, but absolutely none of it matters, seeing as how the manta would only be serving the purpose of inspiration.

And The Black Pearl was a very good book, especially considering it was written for young adults 40 years ago.

Re: Here there be mantas!
 

You mean manatee I suppose http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Here there be mantas!
 

I love manatees! .... don't they look suspiciously like aquatic bog beasts? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif