Real-world sensitivities and game names
 

(Strider said this topic was okay even if the previous thread went in a bad direction.)

Dominions relies heavily on real-world mythology, filtered through a fantasy lens. EA Ermor has clear parallels to the Roman Empire (including the name) around the time of Christianity, the monkey nations are clearly Indian (Rakshasas and Raksharajas), Hinnom draws on Hebrew mythology, Mictlan is the Aztecs and/or associated American tribes, etc. The game being what it is, most of these are not presented in a flattering light, at least with respect to modern sensibilities. (This isn't just stuff like blood sacrifice. Serfs and slaves abound.)

Especially when the historical names of these things are still in use (apparently Jews still call their priests Kohen) there exists the possibility that someone could be offended by the association with the darker aspects of Dominions. My question is twofold: 1.) Should we (as a community) care about this? What would constitute sensitivity? 2.) Is this a pragmatic or a moral principle? If we're just trying to avoid losing potential community members you can just avoid offending large groups who might otherwise play the game. (Large world religions, American rural Southerners, women.) We still might be making potentially offensive mods about Hittites and Aztecs, but the Hittites are all dead. Who do you try to be sensitive to?

My take on it is that you can't avoid offending everyone, and that if your intent is clean (hey! Kabbalistic mythology has cannibalistic giants--let's put them in the game and give them Hebrew names) a reasonable audience has no right to be offended. Some will anyway but that's not your problem unless you're trying to be pragmatic and increase sales, which is less fun than making cool stuff and seeing if anyone else thinks it's cool.

-Max

Re: Real-world sensitivities and game names
 

Isn't this going to just be a repeat of last thread? Why bring it up again? Some people are offended, many won't be. Lots of arguments to defend each position.

Same with Shrapnel's dominions ads.

Same with praising the game vs. highlighting areas for improvement (or complaining, however you want to spin it).

Yada yada yada.

Now lets both go outside and enjoy the weekend.

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Real-world sensitivities and game names
 

Me, Sombre and probably whole IRC channel think that Ulm should be banned. Namind commander Adolf? Man, that offends not only Hebrews, but whole Eastern Europe. And progressive nation of Germany too!

Re: Real-world sensitivities and game names
 

Machaka might as well be called "Blaxploitation, Shaft in Africa"

;]

Seriously though I believe there are so few people that would be offended by dom3 (who would normally play fantasy strategy games) that it isn't worth thinking about. I am still surprised how people on these boards find it hard to play blood nations and so on though. And I don't mean for micro reasons.

Re: Real-world sensitivities and game names
 

I'm actually very confused. Is this intended to be a serious discussion of whether or not Dom3 is PC enough? The entire notion of PC seems to just be another layer of American neo-Puritanism struggling to insulate "innocent" minds against the reality of the world. This isn't an indictment of you Max, you seem like a nice guy, and I see where you're coming from personally on this, not as some oppressor of freedoms, but just someone with a thought of how to get the game to appeal more broadly.

But I am going to argue, that while there is embellishment on the part of the devs, that there's nothing wrong with it, and that people who find something wrong with it, are simply finding something wrong with themselves. I mean, the sad part about the whole thing is that MOST of the gritty details that are included, are based directly on the past. Yes, some are exaggerated slightly, and some are simply made to look more sinister for the mood of the game, but it's simple - people did these things.

I know, you're not going to say that maybe history books would sell more if they kind of tidied things up - but there are people who take the concept to that extreme. Political Correctness is drawn directly from people's insecurities, and their denial of human nature, and mankind's past - AND present. And the wacky part is, most of these people are ultimately alright with the worst things that happen today, all they are really demanding is that we not have to see it.

We should refer to cannibalism as "having someone over for dinner".
We should refer to human sacrifice as "sending a messenger to god".
And we should refer to torture as "detaining indefinitely".


Now if they just made up all of these terrible things, I might agree that "maybe" they should just change the names around, so as not to be inflammatory - but all of this has its basis in recorded fact, so fault lies with the offended.

<3

Re: Real-world sensitivities and game names
 

Actually, I am very active in many religious forums around the net.

I've seen much stranger things than someone going mad because a race of cannibal giants, inspired by the myths of his religion, calls its cannibal "priests" in his own language.
As I've seen people going crazy when you say that glue was proved to be invented 7000 years ago, because earth was created just 6000 years ago for them. And people claiming (2008) the evidence of the earth being flat.

Now, I am agnostic and I respect every religion. For me anyone can believe whatever he/she/it wants, until tries to stomp on my head, put his/her/its "truths" down my troath, violate someone's rights.

So now, if you ask me if the community must let s/o SAY "i got offended because a random name of an ugly Basalt Queen was the name of my gf", or something like that, I say yes, he has this right.

If you ask me, shall the devs change their art and intellectual work because someone can remotely see some improbable and barely offensive resemblance to his belief/society/friends/relatives? Well no way. No censorship, sorry, religious, political or whatever.

(sorry if some parts are kind of banalizing, but i like to put a little bit of sarcasm in almost all my speeches, i hope it transpires through the written words http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smirk.gif hey, i'm italian http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif )

Re: Real-world sensitivities and game names
 

More like a discussion of whether being PC matters. Specifically, since all the posters so far (including myself) think that being PC is a lost cause, I'm curious whether there is anybody that thinks otherwise and didn't speak up on the disappeared thread.

-Max

Re: Real-world sensitivities and game names
 

No actual real world group is in Dom3, just a bunch of made up races that are kinda sorta like real world groups that exist or existed at one point. Seems kind of silly to get offended over that.

Re: Real-world sensitivities and game names
 

Maybe my sarcasm detector is malfunctioning, but does anyone seriously get offended because of an ulmish commander named Adolph? Seriously? That's a real actual name that real actual people have in real life, just because the one guy ruined it for everyone doesn't make it less of an actual name that a random guy on the street could have.

Re: Real-world sensitivities and game names
 

Maybe I'd get offended if a Marignon commander were named Liberace. >.>

Or get offended that my people, the innocent cave dwelling Agarthans, are depicted as one eyed freaks in this game. We have two eyes dammit, TWO EYES!

O.O

People who get offended by words, are a bit silly. Maybe if those words describe malicious action or thought, that might be offensive - but that means that Dom3 is either universally offensive in nature, or universally innocent.

I think we all agree there is no malice from the devs. But I think what what this whole thing comes down to, is whether or not we even WANT to bulk up the community here with a bunch of people who would currently consider the game's content to be malicious in nature. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif I'm gonna vote no - please god, don't let those people come and ruin this for everyone! <3


In truth, I think our only hope for those over sensitive neo-Puritans, is that we further saturate the creative media with things that they COULD find offensive. Eventually they will either all fly to the moon and leave us alone, or their children will grow up to see the error of their parents' ways, and we can all be happy and creative together. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

Re: Real-world sensitivities and game names
 

JimMorrison: You're not the only man to ever become sensitive about his big one eyed monster. [img]/threads/images/Graemlins/Cold.gif[/img]

I'm also anti-PC. I'm pretty sure it's sucking out the soul of the human race through our eyeballs.

People get offended easily. I think it has something to do with it being illegal to chop at each other with battle axes, without a permit. In centuries past, you tended to let things go, because people hadn't yet perfected the reattachment of limbs and organs that we enjoy today. PC has grown from that, because now we've denied most violent recourses once open to our race, and have replaced them with video games, and you just can't simulate kicking someone in the nuts because he said your mother was fat. So we have to be careful about stepping on others' emotions, lest they blow things up, out of all proportion to the relative plumpness of their dear old mums.

But artistic expression remains artistic expression. You can choose to agree or disagree about art, and argue over how profound or significant or worthy a particular example of it is. You can hate it, and if you have the power to do so, you can even destroy it, but that doesn't change it's nature, or the deepseated desire and indominable demand and right and necessity and drive for humans to express ourselves in ways that go beyond-and yes, even if they also include-the needs of the animal.

Re: Real-world sensitivities and game names
 

Ooooh how about a politically incorrect game...

A game where ALL commanders have to be named liberace (still planning that one, just for you Jim), hitler.

Stick a finger to PC!

Re: Real-world sensitivities and game names
 

I wasn't aware that anyone has ever said they were offended by anything in the game. Except for the sexy banner ads.

Why bring this up when it seems to be a non-issue?

Re: Real-world sensitivities and game names
 

I'd argue that the game is better for including "potentially offensive" material. It's a lot more educational that way, since exactly those sorts of things happened, and worse. Murder, rape, and torture happened. And then racism happened, and slavery, and genocide, and Eurocentrality in fantasy gaming.
Fun things happened, like the privelage of a noble to rape his vassal's bride on their wedding night, and the kidnapping and selling of children who had set out with the intention to free the holy land, in the Children's Cruisade. The Inquisition happened. Honest old women were burned at the stake. Heroes were crucified-and not just Christian ones, either. Entire species of animals were exterminated for purposes of entertainment. People tried their damnest-and I mean that term literally-to summon up demons from the pits of Hell, because they thought it was a good idea, having plum run out of ideas for evil things to do, themselves.

And bad things still do happen, believe it or not.

As far as using "potentially offensive" names in the game-please keep in mind that all publicity is good publicity. How many non Jews here had any idea what a Kohen was? How many non Indians know that the Rakshasas were an actual historical people? A better question might be: How many people here appreciate the works of H. P. Lovecraft, without sympathising with his racist, antisemetic viewpoints?

In the words of Plato, or maybe Socrates: "Knowledge is the only good I know of, ignorance, the only evil." Another good saying is "Beware the man who would keep knowledge from you, for he would be your master". I don't know who said that, off the top of my head, but I do have the power to look it up, and the will to form my own opinions about that saying, and the person who said it, separate the two, and take value from each, individually and as a sum.

Re: Real-world sensitivities and game names
 

Huh? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif

Boy, we should all be glad that the guy wasn't named "Michael" or "Martin". Or "John", "James", "Robert" etc.

I don't see a reason why the name "Adolf" would incite hysteria. It became largely unpopular, that's true, but I don't think that it causes offense or should be a taboo.

Re: Real-world sensitivities and game names
 

People with the given name Adolf or Adolph(e), who are unconnected-to the best of my limited knowledge-to the Nazi party.

copied pretty much directly from Wikipedia:

Gustavus Adolphus of Sweden, King of Sweden (1594 - 1632)
Adolf Albin, Romanian chess player (1848 - 1920)
Adolf Anderssen, German chess player (1818 - 1879)
Adolf Appellöf, Swedish zoologist (1857 - 1921)
Adolf Bastian, German anthropologist (1826 - 1905)
Adolf Born, Czech artist and filmmaker (born 1930)
Adolf Brand, German journalist (1874 - 1945)
Adolf von Baeyer, German chemist (1835 - 1917)
Adolf Busch, German violinist and composer (1891 - 1952)
Adolphus Busch, American businessman and co-founder of Anheuser-Busch (1839 - 1913)
Adolf Butenandt, German biochemist (1903 - 1995)
Adolf Cluss, German-American architect (1825 - 1905)
Adolphus Cusins, fictional character in "Major Barbara" by George Bernard Shaw
Adolf Daens, Belgian theologian (1839 - 1907)
Adolf Dassler, German entrepreneur and founder of Adidas (1900 - 1978)
Adolf Deucher, Swiss politician (1831 - 1912)
Adolf Dymsza, Polish comedy actor (1900 - 1975)
Adolf Ehrnrooth, Finnish general (1905 - 2004)
Adolf Etolin, Finnish explorer (1799 - 1876)
Adolf Eugen Fick, German inventor (1829 - 1901)
Adolph Fischer, German labor union activist (1858 – 1887)
Adolf Abraham Halevi Fraenkel, German-Israeli mathematician (1891 - 1965)
Adolf Galland, German fighter pilot (1912 - 1996) Although a German pilot in WW2, Galland was critical of his superiors and distanced himself from the Nazi party. Infact, he seems to have pissed them off, to a significant degree, and was almost tried for treason. He later served as technical advisor during the filming of Battle of Britain. I hardly consider him a Nazi.
Adolf Glassbrenner, German humourist (1810 - 1876)
Adolf Grunbaum, philosopher of science (born 1923)
Adolf von Harnack, German theologian (1851 - 1930)
Adolf Hempt, founder of the Pasteur Institute in Novi Sad, Serbia (1874 – 1943)
Adolf Bernhard Christoph Hilgenfeld, German theologian (1823 - 1907)
Adolf Hedin, Swedish newspaper publisher and politician (1834 - 1905)
Adolf von Henselt, German composer (1814 - 1889)
Adolf Hurwitz, German mathematician (1859 - 1919)
Adolf Kneser, German mathematician (1862 - 1930)
Adolph Kolping, German priest (1813 - 1865)
Adolf Lande, drug-control official
Adolf Lindenbaum, Polish mathematician (1904 - 1941)
Adolf Loos, Austrian architect (1870 - 1933)
Adolf Lu Hitler Marak, Indian politician (born 1948)
Adolphe Menjou, American actor and anti-Communist activist (1890 – 1963)
Adolf Meyer (psychiatrist), Swiss-American psychiatrist (1866 - 1950)
Adolf Meyer (architect), German architect (1881 - 1929)
Adolphus Warburton Moore(A. W. Moore) (1841 – 1887), British civil servant and mountaineer.
Adolf Erik Nordenskiöld, Finnish-Swedish explorer (1832 - 1901)
Adolf Oberländer, German characturist (1845 - 1923)
Adolph Ochs, American newspaper publisher (1858 - 1935)
Adolf Ogi, Swiss politician (born 1942)
Adolf Overweg, German scientist (1822 - 1852)
Adolf Pilar von Pilchau, Baltic German politician (1851 - 1925)
Adolf Reinach, German phenomenologist (1883 - 1917)
Adolph Rupp, American college basketball coach (1901 - 1977)
Adolphe Sax, Belgian musician and inventor of the Saxophone (1814 - 1894)
Adolf Friedrich von Schack, German poet (1815 - 1894)
Adolf Schärf, President of Austria (1890 - 1965)
Adolf Schlagintweit, German explorer (1829 - 1857)
Adolf Schmal, Austrian fencer (1872 - 1919)
Adolf Schreyer, German painter (1828 - 1899)
Adolf von Sonnenthal, Austrian actor (1834 - 1909)
Adolf Stieler, German cartographer (1775 - 1836)
Adolf Stoecker, German theologian (1835 - 1909)
Adolph Heinrich Joseph Sutro 24th mayor (& 2nd Jewish mayor) of San Francisco (1830 - 1898)
Adolphe Thiers French Prime Minister, President, and historian (1797 - 1877)
Adolf Tolkachev, Soviet engineer and CIA spy (1927 - 1986)
Adolf "Dado" Topić, Croatian singer (born 1949)
Adolf Wilbrandt, German novelist (1837 - 1911)
Adolf Otto Reinhold Windaus, German chemist (1876 - 1959)
Adolf Wölfli, Swiss artist (1864 - 1930)

Re: Real-world sensitivities and game names
 

Perhaps, but in America I also have the right to be as thoroughly offensive as I'd like. Unfortunately, I don't run Wal Mart, GameStop, Hasbro, Nintendo, etc.

Self imposed censorship is actually a pretty big issue in gaming in my opinion. I'm actually sure the original issue that started this discussion would never have been allowed if this was a AAA title. There's likely many things in this series that wouldn't be there if they were counting on certain retailers and a certain rating from a certain committee to be successful...Luckily, it's not and we're not playing a watered down Dominions.

They're in such a rare position both to be doing what they want and being successful without having to worry about PC, and it's not like it's gratioutiously offensive for the sake of it either. But the point is they don't need to cave in to PC pressure or flop, which is nice and I hope they take advantage of that in realizing the vision of the game.

Re: Real-world sensitivities and game names
 

I dont know anyone named "Judas". Some names became *really* unpopular.

Re: Real-world sensitivities and game names
 

You'll notice that there seems to be a hard limit on the DoB for names of prominent people given by HoneyBadger above, too. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: Real-world sensitivities and game names
 

As MaxWilson says, this is a valid topic. Shrapnel and some mods are interested in people's views concerning this. We just aren't interested in people making it personal against one another. Most understand that when it comes to religion and politics, it's difficult, at times, to control tempers...even so, we ask that posters please do so.

Re: Real-world sensitivities and game names
 

Perhaps so Ich, but not long ago there was an black American athlete named Hitler. I alternate goggling and giggling over that guy.

Re: Real-world sensitivities and game names
 

I've been amazed and pleased that there has never been a peep about this that i have seen. My guess is that the only people who play fantasy wargames are wargamers and fantasy fans and as such they have gotten over it long ago. Nearly all fantasy fiction draws on stereotypes and plays with supernatural concepts. All wargames per force involve playing at committing vile atrocities. Both escape reasonable moral censure because they are make believe. Beyond that, in an era where GTA is ok Dominions doesn't even rate a raised eyebrow IMO.

Re: Real-world sensitivities and game names
 

I think the game discriminates against undead by making generic holy spells that banish them, and by giving such low stats to soulless... fortunately, the undead can make their own corrective mods.

People thinking that maybe a medieval fantasy game should consider avoiding the random name "Adolf" is hilarious to me. People are so silly.

On the other hand, I can think of at least one parody name that does seem a bit out of place, not because it's so offensive but because it's unthematic and a bit silly. But it's so rare it's sort of an Easter egg.

But uh, this game has virgin hunts and sacrifices and cannibalism and blood orgies and demons and horrors and... etc... and it's all just a game.

People who are offended should just avoid it. It's not like it's getting broadcast on television (unlike adds for male enhancement drugs and dozens of other depraved, nauseating and inappropriate products).

Re: Real-world sensitivities and game names
 

Huh? At the risk of going back on-topic to Dominions--they were? I knew that Devas and Asuras are swapped in Zoroastrianism--Devas are the bad guys--but are Rakshasas the same way? Or do they come from somewhere else? Wikipedia just says they're demons and I couldn't find anything about historical connections. Do tell.

-Max

Re: Real-world sensitivities and game names
 

Lch:

You treated my post seriously? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif That topic is not serious. Some people simply seek things to offend them. And truth is that Jews and Muslim are now best at it, better than Christian fanatics. You can read newspapers or listen to TV and you find a guy like that. Then you send him dominions, ask if it insults him and he will find 50 bad things about it and demand it banned.

Re: Real-world sensitivities and game names
 

Among Christians, certainly. On the other hand, it is also the name of Judas Maccabeus , one of the great warriors of Jewish History, and so, I suspect, far less unpopular among Jews.

Re: Real-world sensitivities and game names
 

Uh, that guy lived ~175 years before the name Judas became infamous.

Re: Real-world sensitivities and game names
 

It took me a second, but I think he means that someone might name their kid after Judas Maccabeus--not that Judas Maccabeus himself was named after (/despite) Judas Iscariot.

-Max

Re: Real-world sensitivities and game names
 

Meh. Censorship on an intellectual and art work makes no sense to me, no matter what.

Re: Real-world sensitivities and game names
 

Just watched the documentary "The Yes Men" tonight, good stuff.

It's about a couple of guys who impersonate representatives from the WTO, through a mock website that is remarkably similar to the real WTO website.

Anyway, they got their start by doing the same thing with George Bush's personal website. They obtained a VERY similar URL, and made a replica of the website, with certain subliminally satirical twists.

Anyways, they showed a news clip where GW Bush was asked what he thought about this kind of spoof website, and whether they had "taken things too far", and it yielded this lovely quote-

"Sure, I think there should be limits, limits on freedom."
George W Bush



So maybe there should be, right? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: Real-world sensitivities and game names
 

The name that offends me the most at the moment in Dominions is Qos Qon.

(laugh...)

Re: Real-world sensitivities and game names
 

There are several famous Judas before the one that betrayed the mesias of christian religion. Including one of them that was a saint apostle (Judas Thaddeus). Even then, few people (if any) will name his son "Judas", becouse everybody will think about Iscariot first. Same goes with "Nero","Herodes" or "Torquemada". No Greek will name his child "Ephialtes" and so on.

Those names aren't taboo, and actually there are very good reasons to use them, as most of them have high tradition (like Judas Thadeus. However, they are underused becouse of unpopularity none the less.

I also would like to point that NONE of the prominent "Adolfs" named previously was born after 1945. Which might be a proof of it's unpopularity as well

Re: Real-world sensitivities and game names
 

Fun things certainly happened, but not those two. Ius primae noctis never existed, and the so-called Children's Crusade didn't consist of children, but of youths, and they didn't end up being sold as slaves.

Re: Real-world sensitivities and game names
 

While there's no authentic, irrefutable *proof* of Ius Primae Noctis, there's definitely a body of evidence for it. So...you're right that it may possibly not have existed as such. That it definitely never happened, ever, I seriously doubt you could prove. Scopes has a good article on it. I quote Charles Panati, from the end of the article:

"Surely the use of political power to secure sexual favors is ancient and widespread. The droit du seigneir (another term from Ius Primae Noctis) in the broadest sense - political pressure for sexual favors, what we now call sexual harrassment - must have been invoked all the time, but was formalized in the myths as if it were an unofficial right or law. One that was, from the start, intolerable. It may never, or seldom, have been technically legal, but it was not "just another myth"

Ofcourse, arranged marriages did occur, and still occur today. How that's a whole lot different, or a whole lot better, than Ius Primae Noctis escapes me. And it must be remembered that rulers in ages past were often thought of as semi-divine, somewhat supernatural beings, themselves, with direct physical ties to the well-being of their people and the fertility of the lands they lorded over. So it atleast makes some amount of sense to me that some form of fertility ceremony connected to weddings probably did occur at some point in time, where the king (or what have you) got first crack at the bride on her wedding night.

It might not be proven fact, but it atleast makes some amount of sense that people back then would think in those ways.

The Children's Cruisade has been debunked to my satisfaction though, so thanks for that. You're welcome to switch it out and replace it with the Jonestown Massacre-when it comes to children enslaved and murdered, as a result of an innocent spiritual purpose, that's a comparably ugly story, I would say.

Re: Real-world sensitivities and game names
 

I really don't think we have to dig too deeply to find rampant evidence of the iniquity of man, from first record, to present. O.o

Though I do think it's funny that people say "power corrupts", when ultimately most powerful people were corrupt to begin with. Thousands of years of people scratching their heads over things like "gee, the king's eldest son died, everyone loved him, did he have ANY enemies? oh well, his younger brother will suffice I suppose, though he's a bit shady".

Some people do extraordinary things to survive. Others, do extraordinarily awful things in order to survive. And yet others are artificially conditioned to think that their survival depends on attainment of more wealth and power, and continually do extraordinarily awful things to that end.

A critical look at the people wielding great power throughout history, will show a handful of admirable and worthy leaders. It will show another handle of mediocre but just and kind rulers. And it will provide seemingly endless lists of the worst kind of scum the world has seen. Not because they commit atrocious acts in person necessarily, but enact policies and send orders that cause incredible suffering to countless citizens whose voice will never be heard crying out in pain across history. Such is the nature of humanity, and of power. For every wrongdoing we discover, there were 10 that were successfully buried, and many of those were the worst.

At least here it's just pixels. Sometimes I shoot pixels in the groin, and then I laugh. I can't allow myself to feel sympathy, because when I hit Exit, they all die anyways. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

Re: Real-world sensitivities and game names
 

That's from the computer game Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri.

Re: Real-world sensitivities and game names
 

Re: Real-world sensitivities and game names
 

Gee this thread is political and full of all kinds of intelligent arguments. Should we care about people being insulted about stuff thats in Dominions? You can call me ignorant if you like but I think all people are equally insane and should just cope with each other no matter what. Everybody respects different things and some things dont mean as much to others than to others. I generally tend to think that its quite hard to exist without insulting someone.

Re: Real-world sensitivities and game names
 

In my year on this forum there have been 4 or 5 threads from players who say they were insulted/offended by some aspect of the game. I find it amusing that not once has anyone initiated a thread that they have been offended by the blood aspect of the game.

It is disappointing that so many jump in and try to defend the game to the party that claims that they are offended; as if a well written post would change the petty minded fellows opinion and expiate whatever insignificent issue he has chosen to base his indignation.

I know this type of person very well. The one insignificent topic that they have chosen to defend provides some sort of validation to them. Of what, I am not sure, but I suspect it is something big, like their very existance and purpose in life.

The world has bigger and more significent concerns than the terminology in a fantasy game.

Re: Real-world sensitivities and game names
 

I really loved that quote. Well, AC was such an awesome game, so uch better than Civ can ever be at this point, I think. 8 \ Oh where are you Alpha Centauri II??

Re: Real-world sensitivities and game names
 

Lost somewhere beneath the pile of money Sid Meyer gets for Civilization.

You know, one thing that I find games do, as sequils are made, is to drop, slowly but surely, the fun little boardgamey quirks that made the games stand out. The Total War series, for instance. Shogun played almost like a boardgame that you could get inside of, but as amazing as the sequils have been, each one seems to spend less and less time on everything but the main engine. It's like building a Formula 1 racer-sure it goes incredibly fast, and it does things that no streetcar could ever do, but it's not comfortable, and video games should be comfortable. They should play like boardgames, or be hobbies like Dom3. I really think the problem with a lot of games today is that they're not loved enough. With AC, you can feel a lot of devotion and dedication that was put into the game. I think the people who made it probably enjoyed making it and playing it, a lot more than they did just factorying out yet another Civ.

Re: Real-world sensitivities and game names
 

Then again, they are working on Colonization II right now, so it's not like they've completely forgotten their old games.

Re: Real-world sensitivities and game names
 

This is true, Sid remade his railroad game, and Pirates, and now Colonization..... Perhaps AC II is not too big a stretch of the imagination for a few years from now.

Pray with me. I don't care if you're religious - I'm not - just pray, please. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

I do agree Badger, a second will probably lose a bit of the "endearingly flawed" qualities of the first. Ironic how the flaws of the sequels are never so lovable. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif But a second iteration would be awfully nice - more so if it is more just a UI and engine upgrade than anything else. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

And yes, I feel in love with Shogun, and introduced several of my friends to Total War because of it. I think it's funny, because they keep adding depth to the strategic layer, and making it play much less like a board game (which I don't mind in theory, but do you see the new one has tech trees?!), but all of the stuff that they keep piling onto the tactical combat just keeps breaking it, and I fear you won't be able to enjoy a tactical land combat at all in Total War: Empires. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif


Oh how the mighty have fallen OT. >.>

Re: Real-world sensitivities and game names
 

Slighty off topic (or maybe back on topic)

webuser: Kohen are offensive
sternest: Knave of fine heroes.

Re: Real-world sensitivities and game names
 

Political correctness isn't about using nice words for bad things. It's about removing bad terminology from people who don't deserve it.

For instance, I'd expect most people should recognise that it is not okay to call blacks "n*****s", or homosexuals "f*****s". Or that women in the workplace should get called "Honey" and told to make the coffee. The last 50 years particularly, Western society has put a lot of time into fighting prejudice. That's what PC is supposed to be all about.

Where the term "political correctness" comes in is that reactionary bigots objected to having to treat the objects of their contempt with respect and fairness. So they popularised the term "political correctness" (although it existed in some form well before that) as a pejorative. Then they picked on the few particularly extreme or absurd things at the fringe, or just made up their own (such as using euphemisms for bad events) and bundled it all up to smear the whole progressive social movement, and through it their political opponents.

Re: Real-world sensitivities and game names
 

Agema:

Why not niggas? They talk to each other with these words.

Political correctness is now just a part of rotten upper classes in Europe that say that extreme PC is necessary part of progressive world.

Re: Real-world sensitivities and game names
 

2 cents worth, and only 2 cents worth.

I have a degree in Culturel Anthropology and alot of what is mentioned in this game is semi-correct or at least has a mythological tilt to it.

Gentlemen (and ladies), we are who we are...

We where a barbaric people by our modern standards and a normal people by the Era's they lived in.

Dragons had Virgins had sacrificed to them but I havn't heard One person decry that it is discrimanation agianst the fairer sex.

I suggest that if a nation offends you...don't play it.

If someone is using a Nations like (example) Ulm and is quoting the Baaaaaad Adolph, and it offends you...Quit the game.

Its Role Playing and supposed to ne thematic and somewhat civilised. But we can't contol everyone, we can only do what we do in real life...choose not to be around those that offend us.

Guess that was a nickel's worth!! [img]/threads/images/Graemlins/Peace.gif[/img]

Re: Real-world sensitivities and game names
 

The way I see it, there's no point in worrying about potential offense. Once we get some actual offense it can be worth discussing, but until then we're just chewing chud.

Re: Real-world sensitivities and game names
 

Keep in mind that these conversations impact multiple levels.

There is the question of "why not in the game".
And then there is "why not on these forums".
And then finally "why not in general conversation" (PMs, email to each other, IRC, etc)

Of course the first one would come up against "the devs decide", the second one comes up against "Shrapnel decides", and the last one... well that would vary.

Re: Real-world sensitivities and game names
 

Mmh don't blame to much the politically correctness. A lot is ridiculous and drives to hypocrisy. Some is an important way to keep conversations polite, diplomatic and not offending people who don't deserve it. If you call someone f*g, you're not only offending him, you're using a word which was used for decades by homophobic morons - people our society is leaving behind, fortunately.

Back to the topic anyway... But if giants coming from the Jewish mythology, and possibly speaking the Jew language, call their priests in their language, which is of course the language of the Jews as those giants where invented by them... it is just thematic. Where is the offense? Really, I don't understand. And if there is something I am NOT is anti-Semite - even Jew people just said in that thread they didn't find it offensive... so it's strange still to be talking about this http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif