Throne of Heroes.
 

Edit-Turin PMed me and has given me permission to update the Worthy Heroes Mod. In light of that fact, my efforts will best be served there, rather than start a new mod from scratch. However, I do intend to proceed era by era, with the MA being changed 1st. Keep in mind soon is a relative word.

As Qm will also be working on a separate update to Worthy Heroes for all ages, I will call my update to Turin's Mod Throne of Heroes.


In the very near future, I am going to start a mod whose intent is identical to Worthy Heroes, but for the Middle Era only.

A couple of things have prompted me to begin this project:

1. The slow release of WH 1.9-and this is not a jab at QM at all. His baby is the CBM, and the CBM is breathtaking in its scope. If the only mod he was tinkering with was WH there is no telling where it would be.

2. I also in my discussions with QM sense a fundamental difference in what we want from our heroes, a difference I also had with Turin as well. They are both more conservative in nature with their heroes than I intend to be.

And I shared that conservatism until I actually had two large full blown games with Epic Heroes. What I learned is even very powerful Epic Heroes affect the early game, but they had small impact on the midgame, and none on the late game.

Unlike an Epic Hero, who you can count on from turn 1, a "Worthy Hero" is hit or miss really. You certainly cannot plan your pretender around the hope that you get one early in the game.

Combine that "fact" with the "fact" that luck is underpowered, and you have all the more reason to reward luck liberally. And one of the few ways to do that(absent the CBM) is to take advantage of the vanilla game mechanic that adds an additional chance for a hero to join your cause.

I am only doing the Middle Age with this mod, primarily because I am most familiar with that era, and because I think I can do a better job with the focus on only 1 era-at least to start.

As with Epic Heroes, I would really like to get heroes from many sources. So if anyone is interested in doing one please contact me.

After watching Pitch Black recently, I think Riddick should be a Hero! But for what race?




http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif

Re: Throne of Heroes
 

Riddick should be fer, fer, fer.. MA Man! Hmm, that doesn't actually sound too thematic, but I can't think of a better team so that's my answer for now.

Re: Throne of Heroes
 

Riddick

Abilities:

Darkvision 100
blind-should he get blind? he seems to possess the ability to fight with sense as well as sight. Especially in the 2nd movie.

Re: Throne of Heroes
 

Hmm, although I do tend to go for less silly things, I must admit having riddick runing around would be fun http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Although it's still in the concept stage, would there any chance of possiblly making it not conflict with worthy heroes, as I'm a sucker when it comes to content I'd proberly end up fixing it myself but I tend to lose track of numbers half way through fixing.

Either way, like I said more content(ie heroes)= yay!

Besides, if you put riddick in, you have to put Bruce Campbell as Ash from evil dead, make him part of ...hmm...undead hating nation A?

I don't know, all I know is I want to tear it up with my SC Ash and his chainsaw hand http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

Re: Throne of Heroes
 

It will definitely conflict with Worthy Heroes. You would play one or the other. But this mod will only cover the middle era in any event.

But since there are many many vanilla heroes for the Middle Era already, it will also be very similar to Worthy Heroes.

In general, the Heroes will be a bit more useful in the mid to late game, as their abilities will translate better, and they will be tougher in general.

Though the vanilla heroes KO made recently for Agartha, Eriu, and a few other races are tough already. But
with a little imagination, we can adjust the backgrounds of some of these human heroes so they are not so fragile.

I am compiling a complete list of vanilla heroes for the middle age, and will publish it in the next day or two. Basically i am making test games, luck 3, clicking through 200 turns per race. That takes a bit of time, but should give me 95 percent of the heroes or more.

Many races do not need any heroes at all-the existing heroes just need tweaked. Then you have some races that have no vanilla game heroes at all(:

Re: Throne of Heroes
 

I love Riddick and I love Ash-I own all the Evil Dead movies (including the one with the Necronomicon case, I keep worrying the battery's gonna die though, cause I actually use it as a prop on Halloween...), Pitch Black, and the special director's cut of Chronicles. Honestly though, adding Riddick would be a whole lot of fun, right until he got stomped on by an elephant, unless it's done within the context of the realities of the game. It might be slightly less satisfying, but ultimately a whole lot less anticlimactic, if you were to create an independent population type of basically darkvisioned Wolf Tribe double-dagger warriors who live underground, call them Furyans, and have them led by a hero named Riddick. It would still be a nice easter-egg.

Maybe somebody can convince the Devs to allow us to add more Bogus-type adventure squads into the game? I think that's an awesome feature to have put into the game, I'm sure we could have a lot of fun adding to that. It would be amazing to witness Ash show up and chainsaw the hell out of Late Ermor. Or Hellboy, Abe Sapien, Liz Sherman, Lobster Johnson, and Roger the Homonculus take the piss out of LA R'lyeh. Or I keep hoping they'll let us do mercenaries, too. I really enjoy the ones we have already-and I always try to get the Ettin. Imagine how much fun it might be to hire a few Protoss led by Fenix?

Re: Throne of Heroes
 

Throne of Heroes-List of Vanilla heroes complete.

The 1st step to creating a mod to make heroes for the middle era is to get a complete list of what heroes already exist in the base game.

Throne of Heroes will not remove any base game hero-but tweak them to make them a thug. Old age will be removed, new abilities added. In general, basically what Turin did with Worthy Heroes, but upped a bit.

A glance at the list below shows several races need no new heroes. However, volunteers are needed to create heroes for bandar log and Oceania who have zero heroes! Shinuyama only has one.

Vanheim and Caelum need new heroes. Dr. P has agreed to work on Tien Chi. Atlantis could use some help.

An interesting thought for a MA Man hero is something from the Robert Jordan books. KO said Man was based on the Robert Jordan Books and King Arthur. Just a thought.

I would love to see a Yeti made for caelum. While I have a Yeti as an Epic Hero, there is room for more than one Yeti!
But I may make a Yeti myself if no one volunteers.

1. Arcoscephale:
Pathos- Son of Titans (954)
Asterios- Monster in the Maze (1089)
Orokestes –Hierophant (587)
Daidalos- Maker of the Maze (1073)

Multihero:


2 Ashdod
Shashai, first son of Anak (2048)
Ahiman , second son of Anak (2047)
Talmai, third son of Anak(2049)


3. Abysia
Chuzrael the Slayer(867)
Rago, Rage Lord(539)
Ba’ al Chozron, Anathemant Warlock (581)

4. Agartha
Klaus, Mason of the Underworld (1848)
Golag, Decrepit (1847)
Kin-Breaker, Onyx Oracle (1846)

Multihero

5. Atlantis
-Chuddar Kadul, Seer King (558)
-Shudul Cthuda, Coral Prince (373)
Multihero


6. Bandar Log

None Found!


7. Caelum:
-Zaelinys, Harab Seraphine(557)
-Caelos, Sacred One (556)

Multihero:

8. C`tis
Niklatu, Lizard Hero (379)
Urugallu, Lizard Hero (380)
Murmur, Guild Master (585)
Kabti’ili, Ancient Shaman (635)

9. Eriu
Tuan, Last Partholonian(1794)
Ferdiad, Fir Bolg Hero (1777)
Cu Chulainn, Hero (1778)
Scathach, Trainer of Heroes(1844)

Multihero
Mathghamhain, Fianna(1806)


10. Ermor:
-Zirru, Grand Thaumaturg(977)
-Mortius Scythe Wielder (868)

Multihero:

11. Jotunheim
-Tjatse, Abductor (1382)
-Angerboda, Great Hag (586)
-Sporsnjall, Wolf Lord (508)

12. Machaka
Mchumba, Ape Oracle (1706)
Ainra, Lady of Spiders (946)
Abasi, Hero(952)
Yasini, King Triumphant (953)
Mwaka, Crowned Ape (1426)


13. Man
-Bernlad, Green Knight (376)
-Rhianne, Heroine (381)
-Brangwen, Blind One (582)

Multihero
-Knight of the Stone (58)

14. Marignon
Angelique d'Armant (588)
Carmont, Cardinal (583)
Tomaso del Monferrada, Witch Hunter General (589)

15. Mictlan:
Mixcoatl, Priest King (1886)
Topiltzin, Priest King (1884)
Mictlipoctli, King of Legends (933)


16. Oceania

None Found!


17. Pangaea
Taurotyrannos, Black Bull (611)
Rams Head, White Satyr (770)
Arcopythera, Harpy Queen (614)
Menopathos, White Minotaur (540)

18. Pythium
Marius Lorca, Hero(505)
Hierogallus, Hero (Serpent Lord)(506)
Bartholomäus, Patriarch (584)
Multihero
Master of the Games(37)


19. R'lyeh
Auluudh, Aboleth(660)
Cthugul, Stargazer (560)
Shubejc, Visitor (1408)
N’gai, Traitor Prince (444)

20. Shinuyama
Yukinaga, Heart Hider(1670)

21. Tien Chi
Lu Tung Pin, immortal (943)
Ho Hsien-KU, immortal (942)
Li Tìeh-Kua, Master with Iron Crutch (944)

22. Ulm
Raterik the Hero (378)
Hildegard the Heroine (507)
Barthulf the Hero (377)

23. Vanheim
Vanlade, Hero (590)
Farbaute, Hero (544)

Multihero

Re: Throne of Heroes
 

See my post in the other thread re: the complete list.

Re: Throne of Heroes
 

Well,

Turin just Gave me permission to update Worthy Heroes. So there will be no Throne of Heroes, but a Worthy Heroes 1.85 which will update the heroes for the MA.

Rome was not built in a day, and I would prefer to update the mod era by era and make sure I know what I am working with.

The hero list is accurate. Though the traitor Prince appears
to be a multihero for Ryleh.

Re: Throne of Heroes
 

Yeah sorry about keeping you waiting. As I said in the pm I simply had not logged in in months.

I'd advise you against creating heroes from popular fiction though. I think that part of the reason why worthy heroes has become quite mainstream is that the philosophy behind it was to only put material in and make changes that are "safe" to make. With safe I mean that they are unlikely to piss anyone off. Heroes from popular fiction are certainly borderline. I know I would not like it to have a Riddick running around in my games.

As can be seen by qm's conceptual balance mod people are very reluctant to accept a mod even if they have only one or two little things to nitpick with it.

The downside is of course that the mod tends to be fairly conservative and might not be as much of an improvement as it could be.

That being said, I'm pretty sure that your version of worthy heroes will have a fun factor at least three times higher than mine and I want to thank you for keeping the mod alive. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

Re: Throne of Heroes
 

Is it really wise to keep WH name? I know you want to make a different mod. CBM will have 1.9 WH in it. And now you are making WH 1.85. People will use both mods and it will get baad. Can't yu keep Throne of Heroes name to avoid confusion?

Re: Throne of Heroes
 

Since many of these heroes will no doubt be a significant thematic departure from both base game and the original worthy heroes, I would suggest using a new name. Particularly since it appears you will only be working from vanilla heroes and not even making use of those WH already added?

I do plan to continue updating the basic worthy heroes (the goal is a full hero set for all nations), so there is definite confusion potential.

Re: Throne of Heroes
 

Actually, I do plan to use some of the heroes from Worthy Heroes now that I have permission to do so.

But my starting point will be the middle era, and it is my hope to have 4 base heroes and 1 multi hero for every ma nation before moving on to another era.

Riddick would only be used if a thematic tie to a nation could be established. Ryleh itself is based on lovecraft novels, and MA Man in part is based on Robert Jordan Books.

I do not view a great thematic departure from the game, as i do think my Epic Heroes are closely tied thematically to the game. There is no "Riddick" in my Epic Heroes Mod, though there is a Beowulf. But the movie came after my mod!
And I never received a dime in royalties(:

Where i sense the greatest divergence QM is updating the base heroes. To the extent thematically plausible it is my goal to make each Hero an asset to the nation.

Heroes do not show up commonly. Sometimes you only get one or 2 in the 1st 50 turns. So to the extent i can thematically give a Hero abilities that I believe will be assets to the nation even in the midgame, that is what I intend to do.

Anyway, I am glad to see all this discussion about my favorite topic: heroes!

Re: Throne of Heroes
 

No offense Xietor but even if you do have permission it seems rude that you didn't run this by qm who is currently working on a new version of Worthy Heroes. As a random example he asked me to do a graphic for an Abysian hero a few days back.

You don't think it will be confusing for people to see two quite different WH mods with potentially the same version numbers?

Re: Throne of Heroes
 

There is no problem with names. I can continue to call my update Throne of Heroes. And I was not actually trying to bypass QM. Turin is just now responding to a pm I sent him months ago about updating the mod.

That pm I sent to Turin was long before I talked to QM about the mod.

The crux of the matter is I wanted the mod updated before Kingmaker began, and I was willing to do it. Most likely I will be starting another mp game this fall, in 2-3 months.

If WH 1.9 is out by then I may even use it. If not, I will make sure this time around that Throne of Heroes, which will update WH middle era at the very least, is ready.

Re: Throne of Heroes
 

New Heroes so far for the middle age Worthy Heroes update Throne of Heroes.


Abysia

1. Prince of Flames(Xietor)


Bandar Log

1. King of the Apes(Burnsaber).


Caelum:

1.Yeti(Xietor)(Graphic by Amos and Llamabeast)

2.Storm Knight(Burnsaber)

Ctis and Pythium

1. Sentient Hydra Hero added

I am restoring the Sentient Hydra to these nations as I favor that hero. He was in prior versions, but was removed in 1.8.

Ulm

1. Disciple of Steel(Xietor)


Ermor

1.Death Cult Assassin(Xietor)

2.

Mictlan

1. Imprisoned King(Burnsaber)

Oceania

1. Black Prince(Burnsaber)

2. Druid of the Seas(Burnsaber)

3. Lord of Pearls(Burnsaber).

Note: Turin will be actively involved with the Throne of Heroes update, and will have veto power over any proposed changes. Thus the Throne of Heroes update to Worthy Heroes 1.8 will remain true to the of the prior versions of Turin's Worthy Heroes.



I am still looking for someone to do a hero for:


Shinuyama
Bandar Log
Atlantis


Though there are hero slots open for almost every nation.

Re: Throne of Heroes
 

Update:

I hope to have the update to the Middle Age of WH complete before August 7.

So far the 3 water races are done, as well as Arcos., Ashdod,
Abysia, Agartha, Bandar Log, Caelum, Ctis, and Eriu. The yeti is not finished for caelum as the sprite is not yet finished.

Re: Throne of Heroes
 

This is looking really good. I've always been a sucker for any way to add more heroes to each nation. They make my SP games so much more fun

Keep up the excellent work Xietor and all those who are submitting heroes!!!

Re: Throne of Heroes
 

I am still looking for someone to do a Shinuyama, Ermor, and a Vanheim hero.

Re: Throne of Heroes
 

Three more races to update. Mod should be done in the next week, and depending on how long Turin's review takes. could be released this month.

One new caelum hero, done by Xietor, graphic is from Amos' Travelers Mod, and touched up by Llamabeast.

http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/...1e2af6e12g.jpg

Re: Throne of Heroes.
 

I had some very general ideas for heros if anyone wants to run with them:

Bandar Log - How about a size 4 King Kong type monster with trample. The nation could certainly use a melee heavy hitter IMO

Atlantis - I always thought that the folks of this nation would have some high tech given the myths you read about. Some sort of clockwork robot hero or a mage that could summon one of the construction tree mechanical units as well as giving them a powerful bonus in combat to represent there ability to repair them (regen for units they lead or some such) might be interesting.

Ermor - Having a Dr. Frankenstein type hero working for this nation would be quite funny. He could summon random undead that would get a set of random afflictions and/or abilities. So you never know what you are getting :p

Vanheim - I always thought that this race should have a female seduction hero given the fact that illusion is one of their primary magics.

I'll try to post more ideas at a more decent hour :D

Re: Throne of Heroes.
 

Thanks for the ideas. At this point, I am done making new heroes and tweaks myself. In fact the only thing standing between me and publishing the update are:

1. waiting on some Tien Chi heroes Dr. P is working on.

2. Waiting to hear from Turin.


However anyone wanting to add additional heroes certainly can. It will be easy for me to update the mod, or add them to the mod.(as I am uncertain how long it will take for feedback and to get the Tien Chi heroes).

Re: Throne of Heroes.
 

This mod should be released this weekend. All of the new heroes that are going into the first release are in it. I have implemented Turin's final modifications to my changes to existing heroes, and the new ones, and am in the process of final testing to make sure they all appear, have no typos in the descr. etc.

Gustav may be headed to New Orleans. If we are spared that fate, the mod should be released this weekend.