Mexico and Venezuela
 

Has anyone made OOb for the mexican and venezuelan armies,those with a few maps could make for some interesting senarios and campaigns

Re: Mexico and Venezuela
 

Mexico is on my "to do" list, but I have no idea when I'll get around to it. You can rest assured that when I get around to it, I will either create a new thread in the TO&E portion of the forum, or add it to this thread, or both.

Re: Mexico and Venezuela
 

Mexico doesn't have an army as we think of it. They use their troops as police, so they have little in the way of heavy weapons. It's not like they need an army to invade America and there is nothing else around for them to invade.
Venezuela is buying weapons as fast as they can be loaded on the ship. They use them to arm FRAC and other terrs, so it's not like they are going to be fighting another nation directly any time soon.
The Monroe Doctrine worked out pretty well, all things considered.

Re: Mexico and Venezuela
 

It's not really worth wrecking an official OOB just to represent those two countries. If one must make these nations, better to just redo Green to include the new units.

Re: Mexico and Venezuela
 

I don't know if I'd consider it "wrecking" official OOBs to make those two nations. Red and Green are official OOBs too, and are the ones I most often use for the smaller nations, many of which are 1946-2020. Sri Lanka, however, will be a replacement for Pakistan because it most closely matches the dates there, and its the issue with Singapore as well.

Furthermore, with the OOB manager, it really doesn't have to be "wrecking," because when you're done you can just restore the defaults. If you've gone further and installed a picklist, well, you can just set up a dual install to have a new selection of nations. Seems pretty flexible to me.

Re: Mexico and Venezuela
 

I can certainly see your perspective on this. But I think, why tear up a completed offical OOB just to create a country with a handfull of units? Yes Green is offical but it's also a general OOB. And as Don and Andy have stated many times, OOB work is never done.
The only benifet I can see is your way you'd get the offical flag for that nation. I'm not big on picklists as I usually purchase for the AI.

When I play the AI I take an inferior army and let the AI have a superior one. Also giving the AI much more to spend of course.

Re: Mexico and Venezuela
 

I'm not tearing up anything. I create the OOBs from scratch. I build in OOB 93 and then select an appropriate OOB to replace when the basic construction is complete. OOB work is never done, but for countries like the Dominican Republic and Haiti its pretty close at the first go. Laos to 1975 is also not going to change. I have continually be updating the Philippine OOB as more information becomes available. Will they ever be done 100%? Of course not. That's why its my hobby hehe.

Also, why create a country with only a handful of units? I think you can ask the same question of why the official game includes Uruguay, Paraguay, El Salavador and others.

You also get a historically accurate OOB, instead of trying to pick and choose "what's closest" out of the Green OOB. That you're not a fan of the picklists doesn't meant they're not useful to others too.

I think the bottom line is, when I get around to it and release a Mexican OOB with picklist, you're perfectly welcome to continue using the Green OOB instead.

Re: Mexico and Venezuela
 

Actually I dont bother using it now, so thanks anyways.

The bottom line really is Mexico isnt worth doing as they dont even have a military. I mean drug dealers are giving them all they can handle.
And Haiti? lol

And one more thing, how can you be 100% sure that everything your doing is historically accurate? As your doing things from various information sources and you weren't historically present? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif

Re: Mexico and Venezuela
 

So why are you bothering to post in this thread? For the sake of argument?

Haiti post-1994 perhaps, but Mexico has as much of military as Uruguay and El Salvador and they're included in the official game. I think you commentary on the Mexican military shows a distinct lack of understanding, as does the comment made by the other poster that the Mexican military is basically just a heavily armed internal security force. That the Mexican military has only been used to put down internal unrest since the Second World War, does not mean that it would be limited to that capacity should a traditional conflict break out.

Again, look at El Salvador (just one example likely of many), included in the stock game, which fought one war between 1945 and 1990, with a country not even included in the game. That conflict with Honduras was measured in days. Their forces have also only been seriously tested against domestic anti-government groups. I'm sure El Salvador's inclusion in the game is the product of one person taking the time to do it, and nothing more.

How can anyone be sure of anything with that argument? I think you just like being contradictory.

Re: Mexico and Venezuela
 

Ya I think it's for the sake of argument.

Your last answer at the bottom there was kinda lame though, dont you think?

Why don't you just accept vietnam the way the game has it setup? Why do you bother changing it?

Your OOB's are just your perception of how they should be thats all.

Re: Mexico and Venezuela
 

Your argument is basically one that suggests a fundamental flaw with secondary history, since most secondary historians were not historically present at the events, or all of the events they describe. If we take accuracy in its purest definition, as being free of error, then yes, my work cannot be considered accurate. I would agree that most secondary historical work is colored by the perceptions of the authors.

So, with all that, how can you be sure of anything? I say the scratch built OOBs are historically accurate according to my sources, when compared to that Green OOB. That was it. I can safely say that in no way, does the Green OOB historically represent Mexico or Venezuela.

You brought up the Vietnam pack. In the cases of modified OOBs, then it is not so much my interpretation of history in this case as what I deem to be important for inclusion and representation. You'll notice that many design decisions in the stock game revolve around conscious decisions and compromises for the sake of gameplay and the size of the standard OOB, that are not necessarily historically accurate. For instance, what I did was only made possible by splitting the existing two US OOBs into five US OOBs. You'll also notice that many of additions and edits friendly to the existing OOB have been added in the last two patches to the existing US OOBs.

I would challenge you to tell me what your point is in challenging the validity of my arguments. It would seem you have no vested interest in the outcome regardless. That attitude seems to border on trolling.

Re: Mexico and Venezuela
 

You made one good point. Decisions are made based on gameplay. Thats really what its all about.


In any case good day, and god bless.
As far as trolling, I'm making some points you just don't like them, thats all.

Re: Mexico and Venezuela
 

You're right, I didn't like your only "point" that what I was doing was a waste of time hehe.

Re: Mexico and Venezuela
 

I for one look forward to your Mexico OOB http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif

Re: Mexico and Venezuela
 

I appreciate that and I also appreciate the 30 people who downloaded the Haiti OOB (or the one guy who downloaded it 30 times http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif...I believe its somewhere in between). I unfortunately can't tell you when I'll get around to it. I haven't started it.

I'm currently working on Sri Lanka and hoping to find some information on JVP and LTTE organization to add to it to make it possible to have it not just fight itself when you play it. The basic OOB is pretty much done. It will be for Pakistan, even though Sri Lanka was independent before that. I would use India, but I figured that some might want to play Sri Lanka/IPKF scenarios.

Re: Mexico and Venezuela
 

Same here!
Though on my side I'd be more directly interested in the Venezuela OOB. Paired with a similar Colombian OOB, this could be the occasion for interesting scenarios.

Re: Mexico and Venezuela
 

Didn't mean to start a war! Just thinking about sending the mississippi national guard down to kick Fatboy's *** in Venezuela.thought it might be fun. Guess to make it fair ,if someone would do an oob for the boy scouts they could go to mexico.

Re: Mexico and Venezuela
 

Venezuela and Colombia are on my wishlist, but I've been finding it hard to locate good broad information on their organization. Doing Mexico and other central American nations (and updating El Salvador and Nicaragua) is easier since I found a copy of Julio Montes' "Mexican and Central American Armor" which deals with one of the tougher aspects to find information on.

Re: Mexico and Venezuela
 

Yeah, keep up the work, I'm sure a lot of people will appreciate it! Sri Lanka sounds interesting, too...

Re: Mexico and Venezuela
 

I'd also love to see an Venezuelan OOB someday (to replace Paraguay/Uruguay or one of the Central American countries). They've been buying TONs of weapons and equipment lately. "Red" forces work for now, but I'd really like to see a dedicated Venezuelan OOB at some point.

Re: Mexico and Venezuela
 

If people have resources in English or Spanish (or any other language for that matter, I could pretty easily sift through French and Russian too, but otherwise people would have to do the bulk of the translating for me) for Venezuela and Colombia, but don't have the time or inclination to do the OOB grunt work, I'm happy to collaborate and deal with that part coupled with my own research. Any such collaboration would be released by me as such. I've just had very little luck finding good info on either myself, but I know people here have different and perhaps less obvious or accessible resources.

Re: Mexico and Venezuela
 

I can do it on my own, but I don't know how to start/overwrite an OOB.

Re: Mexico and Venezuela
 

Which is exactly why I offered to do that part hehe.

Re: Mexico and Venezuela
 

Oh, duh. Sorry. How do we get started? I can do without Paraguay or Uruguay...

Re: Mexico and Venezuela
 

PMed you, let me know if it doesn't make it (didn't seem to save to my sent box, so I'm not sure it actually sent).

Re: Mexico and Venezuela
 

Well, if Mexico is "not-so-interesting-nation-to-play" nation, I would like to get those Venezuela/Colombia OOBs into game... And how about Bolivia too?

Re: Mexico and Venezuela
 

Mexico's on my to do list right after Singapore, which I have started as my current project. Unfortunately, my real life has been quite busy and has slowed down the production process of these things, which already took quite some time.