Counter to Darkness?
 

Hi there, would be grateful for any help.

I am currently engaged in an entertaining MP game playing EA Tien Chien against Lanka. But I am struggling against Darkness, specifically the Big Lanka Demons that scare the sun away. We are on turn 70 or so, I have loads of Celestial mages and the ability to cast virtually any spell, but my armies are falling back in disarray from armies of 500 or so demons with darkvision. Help!

Many Thanks

Re: Counter to Darkness?
 

The only solution is to kill the caster. I want a light spell, or maybe some other fix

Re: Counter to Darkness?
 

If you were using CBM I'd say cleansing bell spam. But you aren't :]

Re: Counter to Darkness?
 

Unless im misstaken solar brilliance cancels darkness.
If your troops can't see you might as well make sure your opponents troops can't either http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif
Besides solar brilliance actually hurts demons and undead so you'll kill his troops as well as blind them.

Re: Counter to Darkness?
 

As well as blinding your guys.

Re: Counter to Darkness?
 

Hmm, solar brilliance blinds everyone... I could be mistaken. Hey how about a modded item that gives darkvison. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif

Re: Counter to Darkness?
 

Mmmh maybe Mass Darkvision, at 50%, should be a nice thing, but probably darkness is wanted to be not so easy uncounterable so let's just forget this http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

As you have many mages, maybe you could start a mind hunt - seeking arrow spam in order to kill many of their casting mages as possible, possibly right before an attack. Can fliers fly in darkness? If so, hold and attack rearmost could be great, expecially for a thug with winged shoes and some aoe weapon... or you should just focus on something else, like heavy guerrilla and raidings to ruin his economy and make their big armies start diserting, and take time while those big armies go around trying to recapture lost provinces http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

P.S. well if solar brilliance blinds everybody, at least the advantage of the enemy is zeroed no? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: Counter to Darkness?
 

According to KO (I've never checked it), Solar Brilliance negates Darkness in addition to forcing an MR check to not be blinded. It might be possible to mod away the blinding effect--check Dr. Praetorious' spell-modding guide and spreadsheet to see if Solar Brilliance has two separate effects or one.

-Max

Re: Counter to Darkness?
 

Ok Max, your suggestion are good for modders surely, I'm not being critic, but I just want to poin out that GreenAris is seeking some kind of solution for /here/ and /now/ in a not modded nor moddable MP game http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: Counter to Darkness?
 

Ah. Whoops. In that case--you have plenty of fire and water mages, and Mandahas are vulnerable to fire. Single-target spells will generally target high-HP creatures. Can you set them to spam Frozen Heart and/or Incinerate, or are the Mandahas sufficiently immune and/or out of range?

-Max

Re: Counter to Darkness?
 

If you can cast Solar Brilliance then you can cast Antimagic. (No really, Antimagic is lower on the same research tree and it requires a lower level of Astral.) Just use the un-modded spell and at worst you negate the darkness effect and scorch the demons at the cost of only a few retinas.

Re: Counter to Darkness?
 

Mmmh AreaOfEffect, that seems smart to me! Let me summarize, you suggest casting Antimagic to protect friendly units from the Solar Brilliance (which in fact can be resisted by a MR roll), which will not only (if it's true) dispell Darkness but even makes more damage on demons? Oh well seems we have a perfect counter, ladies and gentlemen! Good good work sir http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: Counter to Darkness?
 

So I guess the question now is, is Solar Brilliance (+ Antimagic) going to be enough to hold off armies of 500+ demons WITHOUT Darkness? Or do we have to throw in Master Enslave, Fog Warriors, and Rain of Stones?

-Max

Re: Counter to Darkness?
 

Depending on the game, you may find that the other player is having a tough time keeping the death gems arriving in his army. Also, there is probably only one mage scripted to cast Darkness and that mage may only have enough gems to cast it once.

So, try to force them to cast when they don't want to. Cast a spell which attacks the army during the magic phase, just to make them cast. Call of the Winds, the undead horsemen spell, things like that. Then attack with your real army in the same turn and they won't have the gems to cast it again. Alternativly, just keep forcing battles, so they burn up gems. An army on the march, without labs, can run out of gems relativly easily. If nothing else, it will force them to use gems on this, instead of summons or forging.

Obviously, if you have a good and organized opponent, this is not a sure fire counter. But it does increase the pressure on them and create a chance you will get an opportunity.

Re: Counter to Darkness?
 

Mandahas autocast Darkness, so that doesn't apply to this situation.

Re: Counter to Darkness?
 

If you can get 5-6 Bow's of War on some Demon or Undead commanders set to Fire Large Monster, then cast Flaming Arrows, you should clear youtr Mandanha problem right up.

Failing that. Mass casters who can cast Drain Life. They should auto-target the Mandaha's and kill them, dropping the Darkness.

Re: Counter to Darkness?
 

Wow so the situation with Darkness isn't so bad as I thought http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif I retret my previous statement about "Mass Darkvision", I'd prefer finding imaginative and tactic-intensive ways like these ones to solve a problem like this when I face it, I don't wanna become lazy http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif

Re: Counter to Darkness?
 

Oops, didn't know that. Well, as many others have said, that is one of the great things about this game. There is so much depth and so much to learn.

In any case, I do stand by my advice for countering other nations, such as MA Ermor. I know I had to work hard to keep my armies supplied with the needed death gems.

Re: Counter to Darkness?
 

Many thanks for the suggestions. I will give some of them a try. The Mandaha is well protected by a bunch of other giant deamons, so single target spells will probably get absorbed by them. But solar Brilliance may work, I will let you know how I get on.

Re: Counter to Darkness?
 

Mandahas take severe damage from fire.

Re: Counter to Darkness?
 

Of course you can use items to make it fire immune, cannot you?

Re: Counter to Darkness?
 

Vulnerabilities and resistances are cumulative.

So if a unit is 100% Fire vulnerable, it is in fact -100% Fire resistant, meaning that if you add 100% FR from items, then he is at normal damage.

Re: Counter to Darkness?
 

Yes, buring perls+dragon helm+fire plate = 150% FR and only requires const 2 and 15 fire gems (less with hammer). Adding a fire band or a charcoal shield (const 4, 5F5E each) provides the remaining 50% FR. See, it is not that hard to make a Mandaha fire immune.

Re: Counter to Darkness?
 

Now Lanka does not have F or E mages, and needs bless for their sacred troops. So forging such gear is quite difficult for Lanka.

Re: Counter to Darkness?
 

As a footnote:

The AI is apparently reluctant to cast Solar Brilliance against Mandaha darkness, even when scripted

I can see a few options:

1 - The AI has a weakness in this area.
2 - Solar Brilliance and Darkness are actually mutually exclusive in the sense that once one has been cast the other cannot ba cast over it.
3 - Mandaha Darkness is special in that (as per the unit flavour text) you specifically cannot cast Solar Brilliance against it.

Any thoughts?

Re: Counter to Darkness?
 

I know for a fact that solar brilliance does indeed cancel out darkness. I've had it cast against me, and seen it work. That said, this darkness was the kind cast by Ermor.

Jazzepi

Re: Counter to Darkness?
 

It is possible that the AI didn't consider the opposing army to be a threat. In which case the AI prefers not to use gems in battle. Was the force you were fighting much smaller then the army you brought?

Re: Counter to Darkness?
 

I know for a fact that 2 is not true. I've been casting solar brilliance over darkness when fighting Ctis as Kailasa. I don't know about mandahas though. You could try forbidden light if that's in your reach - it autocasts solar brilliance. Or you could try to surprise him with skelly spam - forge some skullfaces, boots of quickness and some reinvig. items and give them to commanders (best undead ones, no additional enc.).

Re: Counter to Darkness?
 

Green lions have unresistable AoE dmg. Might shoot a bit off target during darkness, but should hurt the demons good..
With W/F they are a bit difficult to get, but as TC you should have access to them.

Re: Counter to Darkness?
 

I dont think #3 is valid. I've never seen an instance where a battlefield enchantment was not cast due to the presence of another BE (which was not the exact same enchantment).