Ea R\'lyeh Aboleths.
 

EA R'lyeh is one of my very favorite nations, but they're also considered one of the weakest and also most difficult to use.

With the new nations being, well, spectacular in ways not even fully defined yet, how would you go about raising the Aboleths nation up to this bar?

Here's kind of what I'm looking for: new units, new summons/spells, greater cohesion, advantages that other nations don't have that would appeal to certain playing styles, new abilities in general that take advantage of the new modding commands we now have access to.

I'm hoping that we can take a close look at this nation and come up with a way to atleast mod it to make it more appealing for MP, because it's too weird and too awesome and too just plain different from every other nation (and that's saying a lot) for it not to be atleast a little bit more popular.

Re: Ea R\'lyeh Aboleths.
 

I would take a trip 10 bless with -3 scales across the board.

Jazzepi

Re: Ea R\'lyeh Aboleths.
 

The MA Oceania suggestion of an aquatic equivalent to Thetis' Blessing would be nice. Ditto for items like Barrel of Water. Imagine shiny watery globes slinking through the city, with tentacled horrors inside. It would be like something out of old science-fiction, where the invaders are often equated with their life-support equipment (War of the Worlds? City of Gold and Lead?).

-Max

Re: Ea R\'lyeh Aboleths.
 

I think you've got something there, MaxWilson. Suppose they had a summons, that wasn't *technically* a summons, high in the Construction field, that gave you an Aboleth "mech", built around a spawn that grows inside of it. The "mech" might be right along the lines of War of the Worlds-hulking amphibious mechanical towers filled with water, on four strong but spindly metal legs, armed with robotic tentacles tipped with manacle-like claws that hold opponents in place, and a psi-powered lightning field that does damage to an area, over time. They could have a second, more aquadynamic, waterform, something like the squid hunter-seekers in the Matrix.

Considering they'd be built around hyper-intelligent, hyper-evil squidforms, they'd be close enough to Daleks to suit me http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif

Re: Ea R\'lyeh Aboleths.
 

Death Ray Squid Tanks !!

Why didn't we see this before, this is the only thing Dom3 needs to become so breathtakingly awesome, that our own sun implodes in riotous glory and splendor.

Oh it will be everything we dreamed it could be, but first we must design the tanks. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

Creepy slithering water globes filled with otherworldly invaders, and references to Tripods help make this thread complete. I am so happy right now. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif


How about a national spell too, maybe make it 2W/1S, that gives a commander air breathing, and flight. It's not true flight, but levitation really, but still..... Gigantic whale-like Aboleths, gliding with silent grace through the sky, rending people's minds with their insane coolness. It would work like Life After Death and Dragon Master and stuff, spells that leave a lasting effect on the caster. I think EA R'lyeh needs that spell more than anyone, as they are just about the least likely aquatic to have any Air magic. There could of course be a higher spell that allows them to bring XX aquatic units with them on land.

Re: Ea R\'lyeh Aboleths.
 

Well naturally death ray squid tanks. That's just logic, son.

And nations don't just have to be about representing historical or mythological cultures, they can also represent memes. Everything from the aforementioned War of the Worlds aliens, and Daleks, to the Borg and the more recent Bioshock "Big Daddies" says that monsters are even more terrifying when they're able to use tools and build machines-just like we are-What's worse, a little green martian, or a little green martian with a ray gun?Especially if they lack the sort of supposed "moral disgust" of coupling their own bodies to those machines.

Re: Ea R\'lyeh Aboleths.
 

First, I don't think you should raise EA Ryalla to the same levels as the new nations.

A. Because that would leave a lot of 'old' nations even more inferior. ie., I don't think the new nations should become the standard.

A.2 The theme of Ryalla is mind lords - developing along those lines leads to ...

B. Any game with Ryalla in it - becomes cthulish. Some of us prefer our fantasy without that taint. Ryalla taints two ages already. Thats enough = ).

Re: Ea R\'lyeh Aboleths.
 

But if I WERE to make thematic spells or units
I'd like to see assassins that with a hit take control of the subject unit... perhaps turning them into a brain dead zombie (just not undead).

Re: Ea R\'lyeh Aboleths.
 

Personally, and after that you can definitively stone me alive http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/stupid.gif I just wouldn't like at all this imaginative game of mythology and religions, to become an hybrid with mechs and death rays and laser beams and a Darth Vader summon... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif surely a mod could be fun, but if you think that this nation needs a little boost in the vanilla too not to be left way behind, maybe we could suggest something more strictly thematic to see if we can positively inspire the devs?

Of course if the devs are ok with the aboleth mech (it reminds me somehow the robot with the talking brain inside that was the bad boy of the ninja turtles ^_^ ) I will surely accept them even in the vanilla, despite now being quite duobtful about this http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: Ea R\'lyeh Aboleths.
 

Hmmm, so it would work sort of like a Zamzummite casting Feast For the Dead. The Aboleth disappears and a Mech takes its place.

-Max

Re: Ea R\'lyeh Aboleths.
 

What do you think mechs and death rays and Darth Vader and C'thulhu/Lovecraft are, if not mythology? Besides, have you taken a close look at what's already in the game? We have mechanical men, we have hyper intelligent Pretender squid-gods with magical powers (Ancient Kraken), we have a king of the Fomorians that has a death ray for an eye...Everything you mentioned, aside from a Darth Vader clone, is already in there without ever touching on Lovecraft, and for more far-fetched reasons than alien (to humans) technology.

The game doesn't need to be completely humanocentric, and it doesn't need to be totally based on our best guess of whatever we imagine some culture's world-view might have been 1500 years ago. Neither of those things add anything to the game, they're just self-imposed limitations that frown on the idea that people today might have imaginations as important and valid as they did in ages past.

And really, discussing why you don't want Aboleths-a made up race probably invented by Gary Gygax in the 70's-to be somehow tainted by a more purple shade of weirdness than you're comfortable having applied to giant, sentient, mudfish/squids that are born from giant holy corals...I just don't know where to begin.

Re: Ea R\'lyeh Aboleths.
 

Well, I'm thinking that, since the Aboleth mothers produce approximately a bijillion babies, that a summons of that type wouldn't have to keep track of yet another spawn. It would just be assumed that perhaps that particular spawn was deemed "special" in some way, and kept in the laboratory for research, until a use could be found for them.

Re: Ea R\'lyeh Aboleths.
 

Since the mech idea doesn't seem to be going down all that digestably for some, maybe instead spawn could simply be attached to living creatures, magically? They might combine with sea trolls, giant crabs, mantas, etc., dissolving their will with direct psychic enslavement, while the bodies of the aboleth spawn themselves grow into the hosts, creating a new and far more horrifying being.

Re: Ea R\'lyeh Aboleths.
 

I like ea rlyeh too, but I'm not a fan of any of the suggestions in this thread,.. other than the reverse thetis' blessing spell. I'd really like to see aquatic only troops zipping about on land. The spell would have to be castable early enough for it to matter though.

Re: Ea R\'lyeh Aboleths.
 

Oh MAN! Either an "assassin" type unit, or a national spell..... It doesn't generate a combat, so you won't see a report and know which commander to get rid of.

Don't have it take direct control of the commander, let it stay as a parasite on the host. The parasite waits, and when it sees that the commander is in a "stressful" battle situation, it suddenly turns and begins attacking or casting spells at its own people.


And I really..... DEATH BEAM SQUID TANKS ..... That's all I have left, don't take it away from me.

Re: Ea R\'lyeh Aboleths.
 

Reverse Thetis' Blessing is the only one that appeals to me, too. I mentioned the tripods/WotW only in order to justify it thematically.

-Max

Re: Ea R\'lyeh Aboleths.
 

Sorry HoneyBadger, I didn't really want to make you any angry. My apologies.
I didn't want at all to belittle your suggestions. I was just saying that sci-fi high-technology isn't something I expect from Dominions 3. And about the mythology thing, prolly I expressed myself the wrong way - sorry, I'm not that good in english. I was saying that I was a little doubtful about putting the mechs into a world which is mainly /religion and mythology/. I mean, they would be funny in a mod, but maybe if you people think that the vanilla EA R'lyeah needs an improvement, maybe for vanilla we should seek and suggest a little more straightforward way of improving it - only my opinion of course.
The Darth Vader summon thing was just sarcasm, as you surely understood, I just wanted to make it clear.

Re: Ea R\'lyeh Aboleths.
 

Really?

Re: Ea R\'lyeh Aboleths.
 

Inability to get anything out of the water is enough to make them one of the weakest nations. IIRC, they don't even get Air/Water mages for Amulets of the Fish.


As far as Darth Water goes:
Wears black, surrounded by mysterious aura, has magical powers, not a human any more, wields a colored magical sword:

Bane Lord:
Wears black, has a chill aura, not a human any more, has a colored magical sword.
Alternatively, MA Agartha is the Empire. Darth Vader is an Iron Corpse Gift of Reasoned, propheted and equipped by pretender Palpatine.

Re: Ea R\'lyeh Aboleths.
 

I think, Death Beam Squid Tanks are good.

Re: Ea R\'lyeh Aboleths.
 

They do not have a harder time getting out of water than EA Oceania. When they do get out of water, mind lords are way more powerful than triton kings.

Re: Ea R\'lyeh Aboleths.
 

It seems I didn't know either EA Oceania or R'lyeh as well as I thought I did. EA R'lyeh has much more amphibious troops than I through, and EA Oceania much less and of lower quality than I expected.

R'lyeh has easier time conquering land provinces, but much harder time getting their aquatic units out of water. Oceania, on the other hand, has no problems getting Air/Water mages, and Turtle Warriors at least have shields, but that doesn't help much.

Re: Ea R\'lyeh Aboleths.
 

R'lyeh would need to empower (painful but very doable), or have A on their pretender. I think having A4 on their pretender is a very good idea, since it can also forge storm staff.

Re: Ea R\'lyeh Aboleths.
 

Some aberrations like slimes, beholders and such could be nice unique summons for EA R'lyeh.

Re: Ea R\'lyeh Aboleths.
 

Does no one remember the Dolph Lundgren movie Dark Angel (AKA I Come In Peace)?

I'm serious, a big sluggy looking thing that crawls down people's throats and controls them. You cast it as a ritual, and the slug infests a commander, making him turn on his own army in combat.

Come on, Dolph Lundgren..... It has to be good. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: Ea R\'lyeh Aboleths.
 

You are, somewhat unexpectedly, confusing Kyle McLaghlan with Dolph. I come in peace, with Dolph, is the one with the endorphin extracting tube being punched through the forehead. It is McLaghlan that intrepidly battles the tentacled throat slug, and possibly is one himself.

Re: Ea R\'lyeh Aboleths.
 

Thats sort of what I was alluding to Jim, yes.

Re: Ea R\'lyeh Aboleths.
 

I wasn't mad at you, Tifone. A little flabbergasted, I admit, because it can become frustrating, trying to get other people to see things your way...but not angry at you, and certainly not at your use of English, which is far better than my use of any other language on the planet.

But technology, high or not, and magic, to me anyway, are identical. We're on the internet right now, where I can shapechange into any conceivable form (new screen name), summon up demons of the air (download a program, which does what I ask it to, providing my wording is precise), inflict curses and plagues upon mine enemies, by entering into dark pacts with evil powers of the netherworld (get a hacker to send a virus to someone), become invisible (block my screen name), predict something as chaotic as the weather (weather.com), cure and prevent disease (Norton antivirus), and communicate silently over long distances (what we're doing right now) in an ancient Elfish language that few now know the wisdom of (1337).

Re: Ea R\'lyeh Aboleths.
 

From that description of magic/tech, I suspect HoneyBadger would enjoy the Council Wars series by John Ringo. Ostensibly it's science fiction and the "elves" are gene mods, but in practice it's fantasy. You'd have to enjoy Ringo-style stories, though, which means a lot of military stuff and some moderately dark bits (Ringo had to do research on rape trauma before writing the first book, if that clues you in--unpleasant things do happen to the main characters even if the good guys always win eventually).

-Max

Re: Ea R\'lyeh Aboleths.
 

ARGH!

I'll get you yet, Johan Ostermann, you haven't seen the last of James Douglas Morrison! :O

You're so right though, I want to cry. >.>


"You go in pieces!" http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

Re: Ea R\'lyeh Aboleths.
 

Yes, I do very much enjoy...let's say the *concept* of the Council Wars series, MaxWilson, and I've actually posted about them on these forums before, since I borrowed or was otherwise inspired by some of his ideas, for the campaign setting I'm working on for Dom3.

It's a fantastic (no pun intended) setting for a fantasy series. But as far as execution...John Ringo isn't a totally awful writer, he tries hard, he's fearless, and he really does come up with some great original ideas, but he desperately needs a good editor. His writing ranges from terrible to so-so, which is a shame. His works aren't even as fun to read as they could be, honestly, because they suffer so much from the poor editing.

The military stuff and the dark bits I don't personally mind, but yes, some of the things he writes about are quite hardcore, and can be *extremely* dark, both in terms of graphic violence and graphic sexuality. That aspect of his writing doesn't seem to offend me as much or make me quite as squirmingly uncomfortable as when it appears in some writers' works, since atleast Ringo is straightforward about it and consistently pretty over the top.

He doesn't try to slip it in and tantalize you with it, or bring it on gradually, so that you feel like you've been either pressured, or tricked, into accepting it. He also doesn't (maybe have the skill to) cast bad things in such a nasty light that you can't manage to read through a scene and go on with your life.

Ringo straight-facedly takes these extremely questionable things, and just keeps whacking you over the head with it, without really trying to make excuses or pretend that it's not jarring. As a result, I don't end up feeling like I need a shower after reading one of his books. Indignation and outrage, and maybe a licensed firearm, but not as though I've been dragged through a sewer.

Re: Ea R\'lyeh Aboleths.
 

Since Aboleths seem to be very psychically attuned-even moreso than Illithids in the game-and I don't want to make this just about giving them new units, does anyone have any ideas for psionic abilities they might possess?

Re: Ea R\'lyeh Aboleths.
 

Kristoffer, when you were designing Aboleths, outside of what's already hardcoded into the game, how did you envision the nation? Did you go any deeper or further with them than is presented in the game? They seem to have a different lifecycle than any real life creatures that I'm aware of, and are weirder in Dom3 than even the D&D versions.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aboleth

They do, apparently, have what amounts to an amphibious "secondshape" that allows them to go on land, in D&D, by the way, which I find interesting.

Have you had any thoughts about upgrading/updating them?

Re: Ea R\'lyeh Aboleths.
 

I'm certainly not Kristoffer, but I do think the most interesting way to handle it would be a series of holy spells that transform your freespawn from the mothers/that one pretender into more specialized unit. I don't know about the grafting idea, though it would be interesting if it could somehow be integrated as an in-combat secondaryeffect with MR to resist, but the enslavement and multi-phase of life thing makes me think the spells should all create, well, more aboleths.

If one pulls from DnD, particularly the really entertaining Lords of Madness book, there were flying and Stygian varieties of aboleth, and given the good weaponry/stats basis, you could probably do quite well just working with them as a chassis. Even the Abomination could quite reasonably be considered an aboleth variant.

Re: Ea R\'lyeh Aboleths.
 

Well, I've thought about summons that gave you versions of the Mothers which would produce new types of spawn, but to be honest, I was planning on using that particular idea for a middle age Aboleth mod nation. Also, undead Mind Lords.