Questions about AI preformance and bettering it...
 

Hello I'm a dominions nub, whose been lurking around the forum for a few weeks now...

After reading most of the topics about the subject I wonder if there is anything we can do to improve how units are:



1: Using spells and other abilities, for example I gave the AI a couple of really OP SC which mostly fling around low level spells (that is when they where not researching in the capitol) http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif when they could seriously own in close combat...perhaps a way to downprioritize magic ?

I have heard hints of an #order command how is it used or a myth ? Bogus and crew for example seem pretty scripted...



2: Better Independents Mod really makes the AI train better armies (for some nations) have anyone tried going a step further and remove some of the spam troops from the available units for nations with good elite/semi elite units ?




3: Is there a list of available map commands anywhere ? I've been looking (might be blind) but the best so far has been poking around in maps http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif


4: Been poking around with the #allies map command can it be used to create bigger alliances then 2 players and if so how should it be used to do so...(interested lots of AI vs few players)


5: Is there any debug/testing mod that can be used to let the AI play say a 100 turns against each other and then check their progress ? Or just spies and long testing sessions ?



Greatful for any assistance...trying to build a 3 human + 18 AI map that can challange me and my brothers without rediculous AI handicap of highest difficulty and max crowding...

/LordChance...

Re: Questions about AI preformance and bettering it...
 

There is a pdf document that came with the game in the dominions3/docs directory.

Here is a quicky reference list
http://www.dom3minions.com/docs/map_qref.txt

There is a more up to date map commands manual being done by Edi

Re: Questions about AI preformance and bettering it...
 

1) There is no #order command, it has been in wishlists as a feature request, but it does not exist. There is also no way to downprioritize magic without modding spells to have greater casting cost or removing certain spells. AI mages always cast spells, they never melee by choice.

2) Not done. The Conceptual Balance Mod (CBM for short) alters a lot of things, but nobody has done a similar modification of national unit lists.

3) The mapedit.pdf in the Dominions3/doc folder will tell you map commands. The document is fairly barebones, but there will be a more detailed one in the next patch.

Re: Questions about AI preformance and bettering it...
 

My Poke in the Eye maps is re-randomized each day and uses many of the map commands.
http://www.dom3minions.com/RandomMaps/Poke_Eye_v35.zip

The SemiRandomizer is a great program for using map commands to create logical provinces (if it has a site for getting mages, then mages should guard it)
http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/thr...v=1#Post617649
http://www.dom3minions.com/~semirand/

Re: Questions about AI preformance and bettering i
 

Thx wow I've gotten so used to never looking in the manuals who could think that there is useful information there http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif ...there goes the idea to actually make the AI pretenders good for something http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif...well at least the uber pretenders will be fun to watch (and try to beat) in the first death match and utter terrors in capitol seiges http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

Guess no one has found a way to make the AI use its pretender in any useful manner then since it seems to stay with it in the capitol even when assigned no magic at all such as a Wyrm/Awe build etc...

Yep its great gandalf already poking through the eye at full speed

...well seems like I will have to try to go through the worst national troops and mod away a few crap lvl 0 spells http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

/LordChance...

Re: Questions about AI preformance and bettering it...
 

There are various threads about affecting the AI.

Yes you can create mega-alliances. Setting an #allies command turns on attack protection. Having multiple nations protected from a nation does not cause it to turn off one to set another. They are all in affect as far as I know.

Setting unrest levels above 100 might cause the AI to not try to build troops there. I havent tested it yet.

Turning down resources in the game will rob the AI of much build capability outside of its castle. OF course that also will affect you.

The best improvement for the AI tends to be using the map commands to force the AI to not be so random in its selection of gods and scales. The SemiRand program does some of that but you can also do it manually by adding the commands to a map. You can do it even more manually by starting the game as human for all nations, give each one reasonable pretender and scales, then set it to AI.

Re: Questions about AI preformance and bettering i
 

Turning down resources seems to be directly counter productive since most elite troops are alot more resource intense then money intense...and you can kill any amount of chaff with the right strat, elites are more interesting http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Ye been looking at the stuff from semi random and implemented a number of builds that would set a human player at -points....seems to be working for some nation perhaps some are just lost causes http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

Well there seems to be alot to work through in the map commands and I got some new ideas http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

cheers

/LordChance

Re: Questions about AI preformance and bettering i
 

Followup and new questions...

After running about a dozen test games (3 of them 3 player multi games with 20 AI for added mayham) with diffrent tweaks I found that most nations can be forced to produce alot better armies. As an example my brother did force restart one game after being seriously wiped by a knight/longbow army from Man. But it wont work in the long run due to the AI's build policies yet a potent boast in early game to midgame.

Yet it seems only the armies with one good higher gold then resource and one good high resource unit gets a really good mix as ulm and other nations just spam out their 10-15/20ish
units which while potent in mass in the first year or two kinda has no long time use. I assume they first buy their basic infantry say 20-40 and then choke on the resource cost...a fix that comes to me as I write is increasing the capitol resource cap by adding resources to capital sites must test that one.

So to the questions.
1: Is there anything told by the makers of the game how the AI prioritize unit buys ? (Im thinking of ways to encourage buying capitol only mages and heavy cavalry/sacreds for example..without to radical changes)

Would be interesting for example if it is biased towards building units in the capital if so giving it enought resources to build for most of the money the AI will recive would be a fix for units but not mages...

2: Poptypes for map commands, while nice and so are there anyway to affect what units are in a poptype ? (I guess not since BI takes the route it does with limiting units)

3: Since I asume the above is a no no, I've been replacing some of the units in diffrent poptypes with better working units removing units such as militia for longbowmen and heavier infantry and it works well but when I try to change commanders/priests/mounted commanders and such for units with any magic they do not recive it. Anyone know what I'm doing wrong generally I just run #selectmonster XXX (random independant commander) #copystats #copyspr
sometimes adding #magicskill X X for some custom magic.

4: Is there anyway to make a timed event ? Something that will happen turn X ? Never heard anything like it so I assume no but there has been something like it in every game I've modded so why not ask http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

/cheers Lord Chance...who intends to make some good AI opposition whatever the cost http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

Re: Questions about AI preformance and bettering i
 

Have you tried changing the resource setting from new game creation, or starting games in which RanDom has given the AI better-designed pretenders?

Re: Questions about AI preformance and bettering i
 

That was why I recommended turning down the resources. I know it seems reversed but since castles draw resources from neighboring provinces it means that only castles would tend to have the resources needed for large armies. Therefore most of the armies would come form locations like home capitals.

Lots of interesting stuff can be learned by using the -d commandline switch to turn on debugging to a log. Like the order things are done in the game, how it handles stealth, or selection of mage spells, or ordering troops. Such as, a snippet from the start of a game would be like this...
<font class="small">Code:</font><hr /><pre>
host: buildarmies
new com Astrologer in Arcoscephale (3736)
new unit Hypaspist in Arcoscephale (45071) for player 27
new unit Hypaspist in Arcoscephale (45072) for player 27
new unit Hypaspist in Arcoscephale (45073) for player 27
new unit Hypaspist in Arcoscephale (45074) for player 27
new com Slayer in Abysia (3737)
new unit Abysian Infantry in Abysia (45076) for player 8
new unit Abysian Infantry in Abysia (45077) for player 8
new unit Abysian Infantry in Abysia (45078) for player 8
new com Manflayer in Sauromatia (3738)
new unit Sauromatian Amazon in Sauromatia (45287) for player 4
</pre><hr />

It would fix some and break others. Some nations are meant to rely on indepts for basic troops. But it would make a different game and possibly an overall better game against AIs

Only by using MODs. And you have to be careful since some indept populations overlap units with some nationals.

Dont know the answer to your magic question. But map commands can give provinces mages. At least with the initial defenders. Check out "Poke in the Eye" map for some extremes,
http://www.dom3minions.com/downloads.htm
or the SemiRandom program for some more logical additions to maps.
http://www.dom3minions.com/~semirand/

It depends on the timed event you have in mind. Many could be simulated with some creative modding. But it is untested ground.

Re: Questions about AI preformance and bettering i
 

Yepp...and changes like it mostly affect the start of the game, only a few nations seems to gain a real strong long time bost, the rest produce chaff a bit better chaff then normal http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Did a quick test during the moring with a map I'm working on an added a +500 resource site on the startsites and running only 50 on the resource setting...darn getting wiped up by multiple 120+ Saurmatian Catapracts antrophagi archers and sauromatian raiders before third years end felt very nice instead of facing hordes of barbarians http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif Had the same effects that changing scales has ultimatly thought working widely diffrent with diffrent nations while all got stronger.



Perfect Gandalf going to run the debug and check if I can find any patterns to when and why the AI buys what http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif


Yepp placing the mages where no problem http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif well going to go through it tonight if tonights game doesnt drag on to long http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif


About nationals and poptypes its all fooling around to see what makes an improvement currently I run tests with only 7 set nations on a heavily modded map so its a controlled enviroment. One experiment so far is making human expansion harder (limiting usefulness of awe/fear) since its where the human player really starts to dominate the AI's.



About the timed events...well somewhere around the 3-4+ yr in most of the mp games with AI's we have run the AI can no longer keep up why because SC and thugs eat up their armies if they are a hundred or seven thousand. It would be interesting if at around that time it was possible to give the AI some possible solutions to such problems in a moderate amount since it rarely produces any by itself.
And it would open up some RPish elements to creating maps which are always fun since the games I play are rarely about balance just a fun and challanging pasttime.


It did just strike me has anyone made some real tests between the diffrent AI models for singleplayer, aggressive seems the better/harder one since its more ready to push early but who knows...


By the way D3 mapmaking and modding is very much exciting because on one hand you seem to be able to do everything and on the other everything but what you really want http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif I'll continue the mad experiments tonight http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image.../firedevil.gif


/Cheers LordChance

Re: Questions about AI preformance and bettering i
 

I have a mini-map I use for tests like this if you dont have one already. It makes it easy to do different terrains and nations, but have them close enough to test against each other in one or two turns. Its here as a "Battle Simulator"
http://www.dom3minions.com/downloads.htm

Check out this thread...
http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/thr...31&amp;fpart=1



It did just strike me has anyone made some real tests between the diffrent AI models for singleplayer, aggressive seems the better/harder one since its more ready to push early but who knows...


By the way D3 mapmaking and modding is very much exciting because on one hand you seem to be able to do everything and on the other everything but what you really want http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif I'll continue the mad experiments tonight http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image.../firedevil.gif


/Cheers LordChance

[/quote]

Re: Questions about AI preformance and bettering i
 

Poked around in your ideas for the scenario earlier noticed that you asked about AI using custom spells it does...
By chance I made a really mean and cheap spell (was intended as a ritual not a combat spell http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif) and in the following test that AI killed everyone (including me) http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif was a summon spell and likely there is a reason that most in combat spells are resonably bad or cost gems.


Making a themed scenario with events along a mod/change each turn sounds like an interesting idea for a long time game...
Must think of how to apply it in a quicker game where turns take a couple of minutes...perhaps a yearly change...

Perhaps a small side program darn...so many things to try...but I guess I'll go for a early/mid balance before poking around in that after all the AI's reaching end game is a first priorit http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif And I do more then enought programing at uni...

/Cheers LordChance out...