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LA Tien Chi: Barbarian Kings Strategy Guide 2.0
Summary:
Here is where I start off saying how LA TC is totally underrated and picking it will allow you to open a twelve pack of whoop-*** on the world. Now that you are fired up to try them out, lets get to the facts. LA TC is a versatile & powerful nation, with mobile ground troops, excellent cavalry and archers, and a diverse set of magi that come geared for battle. While many focus on TCs fearsome barbarian horsemen, what makes LA TC a formidable nation is the diversity of its sacred mages, who have level 2 access to every school but Fire and Blood. Most of its mages have higher than normal HP and are armored, with a high encumbrance that makes them perfect for an Earth blessing. In addition, LA TC is highly mobile for a non-flyer nation, a consideration that is sometimes ignored but very useful in MP when you will at some point be facing off on multiple fronts. With map move 3 cavalry, move 2 mages (most of them), and with easy access through gear to teleporters and cloud trapezers, LA TC is a stick and move nation pick them when you see a map with relatively clear terrain. It is also a great nation to learn Dom 3 because it will expose you to a broad set of concepts: spells from most schools of magic, how to use items and summons to boot strap to higher magic levels, communions, military tactics involving tower shields, archers, pole arms, mounted archers / lances, and oh so much more. Finally, they just look so innocent nothing really stands out no giants, no hydras, no demons so just play the quiet sleepy neighbor and fly under the radar in MP. But TC has an answer to almost every problem and with the right combination of luck and diplomacy, LA TC should be a contender in any MP game. Now lets delve into the Battle Mage Nation. The Troops: Footmen TC is all about having a tool kit of answers to various problems and your troops are an excellent example of this. Lets start with the lowly Footmen. Your Footmen come in several flavors allowing you to choose the one that fits your taste. You have light armor (the Regulars) vs. medium and heavy armor (the Heavies) and tower shield / spear (the Blockers) vs. no shield / glaive (the Tacklers). For the detail-oriented among you, here are the stats: * Regular Footmen w/Pike (10G / 9R) Att 10 / Def 8 / Pro 9 / Move 2 * Regular Footmen w/Glaive (10G / 11R) - Att 10 / Def 8 / Pro 9 /Move 2 * Regular Footmen w/Shield (10G / 9R) Att 10 / Def 14 / Pro 9 / Move 2 * Medium Footmen w/Glaive (10G / 14R) Att 10 / Def 8 / Pro 11 / Move 1 * Medium Footmen w/Shield (10G / 14R) Att 10 / Def 14 / Pro 11 / Move 1 * Heavy Footmen w/Glaive (10G / 20R) Att 10 / Def 7 / Pro 14 / Move 1 * Heavy Footmen w/Shield (10G / 20R) Att 10 / Def 13 / Pro 14 / Move 1 Weapon Notes: Spear Dam 3 / Len 4 Glaive Dam 10 / Len 4 Pike Dam 5 / Len 6 Like buying clothes, the key is deciding who you will be meeting and what you can afford. Should you have an appointment with some unfriendly archers, showing up with lots of Blockers is a no brainer. Against large monsters or highly armored foes, forget the tower shields and go with your Tacklers. You can of course experiment with combinations of these: sprinkle in some Blockers up front and Tacklers in between or just behind to give you a screen as they advance and punch. In terms of the Heavies vs. the Regulars, that will depend on your resources and whether you plan to move troops around or keep them on as defenders. In my resource rich forts I like to keep some Heavies on hand for impending sieges. But since the Heavies are your only troops with a map move of 1, these tanks will limit one of your key advantages, which is mobility (unless you are surrounded by nasty terrain in which case it doesnt matter so much). Since I am not a big fan of production scales and prefer mobility, Id recommend using the Regulars in most cases. In terms of other Footmen features, there is not much else to add. They are all Morale and MR 10 so will eventually need to be replaced with better summoned troops as your game evolves. Archer LA TC has one of the best archers around and are great to match with some Blockers to get your early game off the ground. * Archer (10G / 12R) Prec 10 / Move 2 - Comp Bow (Dam 12 / Pre 1 / Range 35) With composite bows and decent morale for archers, who are usually complete pansies, TCs archers make respectable foes. You will get the most use out of them in the early game and will have A2 mages that can boost their efficiency with Wind Guide (Alt 4 A2). Sadly, LA TC completely lacks Fire magic so you will not easily be able to torch your enemies from afar with the Flaming Arrow spell. You will eventually find your Archers less useful later as your foes develop counters like Arrow Fend and Darkness. So dont get bonded too tightly with them but just love them while you can. Barbarian Horsemen Welcome to the upper echelons of LA TCs military ranks. These guys are mean, fast, and can accumulate into fearsome hordes. They come in two flavors Regulars and Heavies. * Reg Barb Horsemen (20G / 12R) Att 11 / Def 15 / Pro 9 / Move 3 / Prec 8 / Morale 11 - Comp Bow (Dam 12 / Pre 1 / Range 35) - Light Lance (Dam 3 Charge bonus first strike / Len 4) * Heavy Barb Horsemen (25G / 27R) Att 11 / Def 15 / Pro 14 / Move 3 / Prec 8 / Morale 12 - Hoof (Dam 10 Str not added) - Lance (Dam 16 Str not added Charge bonus first strike / Len 4 / only used once per battle) - Falchion (Dam 7 / Len 2) - Comp Bow (Dam 12 / Pre 1 / Range 35) As you can see from the above, Heavies require twice as many resources but their multiple weapons offer much more flexibility and the higher protection and higher morale make them more effective warriors. As a result, they are my troop of choice once you get to the point where you can afford them and assuming you have the resources. While the precision of both isnt great (Precision 8 normally but its 10 if youre using CBM) if you get enough of them just blot out the sun with arrows and your enemy will feel the pain. And the same comments on your archers hold for your BHs use Wind Guide as much as possible. Also, be sure to mess with your enemies heads your Barbs arent just dainty mounted archers, they like to lay down some hand to hand smack down every now and then. So mix up your scripts one fight they may be posted in the center rear to fire closest and the next battle they are up on your front corner flank to charge into your enemies back ranks. These guys are great units for the cost and make excellent body guards for your mages. No Disease Demon will punch through 5 BHs before getting zapped by any mage with respectable skills. Map movement of 3 means these guys can practically fly across the land, ensuring maximum butt kicking coverage. Consider this as you expand: being able to get forces from a fort to a front in one turn rather than 3 can make a huge difference in whether you write the history book or just get a footnote. I always play thinking in terms of economics and paying troops for 3 turns of ponderous map movement vs 1 turn adds up over time so think of speed as saving money and money as power. Ancestor Vessel I love these guys and will build as many as I can throughout the game as they remain viable up right up until your inevitable ascension. * Ancestor Vessel (60G / 31R) Att 13 / Def 15 / Pro 16 / Move 3 / Prec 11 / Morale 15 / MR 14 - Hoof (Dam 10 Str not added) - Lance (Dam 16 Str not added Charge bonus first strike / Len 4 / only used once per battle) - Falchion (Dam 7 / Len 2) - Howling Bow (Dam 12 / Pre 2 / Range 35 Magic causes lesser fear) With their high magic resistance, high morale, extreme mobility, ranged magic weapons (Howling Bow causes Lesser Fear) with nice precision for a mounted archer, and sacred status, any AVs will be valuable additions to every fighting force. They are capital only and somewhat expensive, so your ability to produce a ton of them will take time and patience. Nevertheless, I recommend buying as many as you can throughout your game. They are perfect body guards for your magi and can stomp indies early on, especially with the benefits of a nice blessing. Most of the points on BHs apply to AVs they are versatile and you should mix up your tactics so the enemy never knows exactly what to expect. Fun, fun fun! The Commanders Scout Never recruit these from your forts look for indie provinces for scouts you should always have something better to produce. General Never recruit these from your forts look for indie provinces for commanders you should always have something better to produce. Khan Khans make great commanders (120 Leadership) and the only reason not to use them is that you have generally have something more valuable to produce. That said, for those times when you have yet to install a lab/temple for mage production, it is not a bad use of money to buy a Khan to help lead the troops or to outfit with a ranged weapon for some additional battlefield support. * Khan (100G / 41R) Att 13 / Def 17 / Pro 14 / Move 3 / Prec 8 / Morale 13 - Hoof (Dam 10 Str not added) - Lance (Dam 16 Str not added Charge bonus first strike / Len 4 / only used once per battle) - Falchion (Dam 7 / Len 2) - Comp Bow (Dam 12 / Pre 1 / Range 35) They are expensive for a commander but provide the mobility and leadership to make use of your troops. They also have the morale boosting power of a standard (10), which, since you will often being used ranged troops away from the front lines, is actually quite useful since the commander does not have to risk life and limb to get the standard close to the combat zone in order to benefit troops. Morale is king and any boosts can make or break a battle so take advantage of it. For those of you who like to live dangerously, kitting out a Khan for the thug role can be amusing and in character, though they are not particularly durable so use at your own caution. They can fare well against indies given their high defense and (in CBM) fear effect but watch out for astral nations who will abuse their MR 10. Ceremonial Master (50G / 3R) 1H This TC priest would be a decent one to recruit if you did not have the so-much more versatile Master of the Way. While I cannot say I have never recruited a Ceremonial Master, the only time it really would make sense is if you are fighting undead hordes and need the cheapest Banish spammer possible. Otherwise, a Master of the Way is a much better choice because, for the reasons explained below, they will be much more useful once any undead hordes are put back in the ground where they belong. Minor note: in CBM these guys have a Fortune Teller (3) ability to avoid bad mojo. Master of the Way (100G / 1R) 1H 1W and 1W or 1N or 1S or 1A Research 4 MoWs kick *** from turn 1 until the end of the game. These little buggers can be WW, WN, WS, and WA. They only cost 100gp to put that in perspective a lizard shaman can get you WS but costs 180 gp. They are map move 2 so can get around fairly quickly in clean terrain. In the early game your MoWs will provide all the routine priestly duties like blessing and banishing undead. Once your research catches up to your dreams of godhood, these guys are one of the most cost effective deliverers of pain in the game. All of them can spam Frozen Heart (Alt 6 - W1) which will force enemies to develop cold resistance for those SCs that dont already have it. Your A1W1s can light up the battlefield with Orb Lightning (Evo 5 - A1) and your Astrals make excellent communion slaves. W2s can cast Quickness (Alt 4 W2) making your ranged threat even more devestating or make good demon fighters with Cleansing Water (Evo 6 W2). They also can forge Boots of Quickness, which along with Nike, are one of my favorite sets of footwear for thugs. The Battle Mages The next 3 guys are the heart and soul of TC and what I call the Battle Mages. They are available anywhere, sacred, Research 6, H1, well-armored, above average HP for a mage, map move 2 and with useful magic paths that will get you access to A2, E2, N2, and D2 along with a smattering of astral. Their weakness is encumbrance, exacerbated by Old Age, which is why an Earth bless is almost a pre-requisite for playing LA TC. Diverse level 2 magic is nothing to laugh at in the late age and the armor and higher HP helps them survive those improbable, horrible battlefield incidents that has caused many a Dom 3 player to cry out in disbelief. Ancestor Smith (200G/16R) E2D1 + A or D or S or N Guaranteed E2, these guys are the foundation for your boot strapping up the Earth path. In the lab, they will produce your Earth Boots and Dwarven Hammers and eventually bootstrap you to summon Earth Kings. For remote economic assault, Blight (Alt 4 E2D1) is an excellent spell a few Smiths spamming it can completely halt your enemies capital production. In combat, Summon Earthpower (Conj 2 E2) combined with your Earth Blessing will keep you going long after your opponents wimpy, less armored mages are battered and gasping for breath. All the usual Earth combat spells are useful here: Bladewind (Evo 4 E3), Legions of Steel (Const 3 - E3), and Strength of Giants (Ench 3 E3). As Baalz points out, Destruction (Alt 4 E3) is particularly effective as it not only removes armor but also destroys shields, turning those well-armored late age troops into pin cushions for your composite bow wielding ranged troops. Combine this with some of the troop slowing spells like Earth Meld (Alt 2 E2) and now those naked fools must endure even more pain before they even get to your barbarian horsemen. And what will the few arrow-riddled attackers find when they finally make it to your back line Oh sheet! Its a bunch of Ghengis Khan looking guys with lances and falcions glimmering with Weapons of Sharpness (Const 7 E5) (usable by your Smiths with Summon Earthpower + Earth Boots + 1 earth gem. Imagine how that Lance is going to feel slicing through your armor like it was a tub of I Can't Believe Its Not Butter. Ouch! The key here is not to start to feel sorry for your enemy and try to heal him. Army of Gold (Alt 9 E4) in the end game will get you the fire resistance that you probably cannot find anywhere else given your complete disdain for Fire magic (so uncouth). Finally, your E2D1A1 Smiths can easily case Rain of Stones (Evo 7 E3A1) and their armor helps protect them from it. E2D1S1 Smiths should think about popping in an Eye of Aiming and dishing out some Gifts from Heavens (Evo 5 E3S1). Dang, does life get any better? Note: Smiths carry magic Ancestor Swords that cause Lesser Fear. Dedas points out that old Age will disappear on your E2D1N1 Smiths returning them to a youthful attack and defense of15 (18 with the Ancestor Sword), 15 in MR and 15 in morale. This can make them badder then Gogo Yubari. Buff with Fists of Iron (Alt 1 E1) and scream Hiaaa!!! to ensure absolute victory. Spirit Master (200G / 11R) N2D1 + D or S or E or A Research 6 Your hippy mages with guaranteed N2, these guys will boot strap you up the Nature path. In the lab, they will make your Thistle Maces, Rings of Regeneration, and Vine Shields, among other herbal things. I am less of a fan of low level Nature on the battlefield, so prefer to use these guys to start Vine Ogre factories that can be buffed with your Smiths. Should you find them on the battlefield some spells to consider are Swarm (Alt 4 N1 requires an N gem), Vine Arrows (Evo 2 N1) or Storm of Thorns (Evo 7 N2). Equipped with a Thistle Mace and an Eye of the Void, these guys can make nice Charm (Thaum 7 N3) spammers. Always funny to check your turn and find your enemies SCs in your garrison. Like most hippies, these guys carry a magic weapon called the Spirit Club, helpful if they face ethereal assassins or other drug-induced hallucination. Ancestor Guide (200G /11R) D2A1 + A or S or N or D Guaranteed D2, these guys will lead you on the long road to Tartarians. They are my favorite Battle Mage with so many uses its hard to know where to start. Early on, I like to use them to site search and get my death gem economy humming. They also can forge Skull Mentors TC can reap huge benefits by hitting Con 8 first and with its cheap sacred mages and access to Skull Mentors, they have a great shot at it. On the battlefield, they can spam Disintegrate (Alt 8 D2) and will be your insurance against any major undead incursions with Dust to Dust (Thaum 1 D1) and (with boosters) Wither Bones (Thaum 6 D3). Those with an Astral path can cast Nether Darts (Evo 7 D1S1), and Shadow Blast (Evo 5 D2) is fun and effective against Demons. In conjunction with your Ancestor Vessels and their fear causing Howling Bows, you can wreak havoc on your enemies morale with Frighten (Thaum 1- D1) and Terror (Thaum 4 D3). This can be even more effective with a Death Blessing which will imbue your arrows and spells with affliction causing capability, likely many will be Battle Fright (-5 Morale). Furthermore, summoning fear-causing troops, using Horror Helms, fighting in your own domain, and fighting in wasteland (where your Spirit Masters supply bonus will help keep your troops fed) where your enemies might starve themselves (and just having them read this guide) will all work toward ruining enemy morale. Celestial Master W2A1S1 + A or S or E or N + 10% (W or N or A or S) These guys are just plain cool. Early on they make awesome researchers, then later they will provide the foundation for a strong astral late game. They have a wide range of paths and can get up to W3 and S2. Your CMs are cap only I would try to recruit one every turn if you can. They are map move 1 and you dont want to waste a lot of time on the road, so best to keep them at home til you need them and then teleport them with some astral boosters (Starshine Cap / Crystal Coins). With a booster or lucky W3 can cast Falling Frost (Evo 5 W3) while your high level astrals with boosters / communions can use all the great astral battle magic like Paralyze (Thaum 4 S2), Soul Slay (Thaum 5 S3), and Enslave (Thaum 6 S4). In addition you have the great national spell Celestial Chastisement (Evo 5 S3). Some important battlefield enchantments you will need in your late game battles include Will of the Fates (Alt 8 S4) and Antimagic (Ench 4 S3). Save your N1s for forging Clam of Pearls youll want as much astral income as you can for a strong end game. Your E1s with boosters are valuable to forge Crystal Coins and Slave / Master Matrices. The Heroes Ho Hsien-Ku A2N3, Sacred, Immortal, Flying, Ethereal, Healer, 3 Misc slots, Produces 1N per turn Li T'ieh-Kuai A2D2S2N2 Sacred, Immortal, Fear, Plague Carrier, 3 Misc slots Lu-Tung Pin F2A2W2S3 H2 Sacred, Flying, Immortal, 3 Misc Slots - HP 15, Pro 0, Morale 14, MR 18, Str 11, Att 16, Def 16, Prec 15, Move 3, Leader 130 Note he comes with the Demon-Slayer sword and a magic Fly Wisk (stun damage) The National Summons Celestial Servant (Conj 1 S1E1) For one earth gem you get a big fat guy with low attack and defense. The cool thing about him is with your easy access to Water magic, you can cast Quickness (Alt 3 W2) on the Servant and you have a decent and durable warrior pretty early on. He could also benefit from a Bless. - HP 48, Pro 4, Morale 16, MR 14, Str 24, Att 9, Def 8, Move 2 Sacred, SR100%, Glutton 3 Celestial Hound (Conj 4 S1A1) This spell is usable by all your Celestial Masters and gets you 2 hounds for 3 air gems - HP 25, Pro 7, Morale 17, MR 14, Str 17, Att 14, Def 10, Move 3 Sacred, SR100%, Flying, Patrol +10 I think these guys can fly during storms. Start summoning early to build a large force and combine with Fog Warriors for a nice late game force in conjunction with an Air Queen or one of your flying immortal commanders. Ambush of Tigers (Conj 3 N2) 7 nature gems for 7 tigers, meh, these things arent too durable and an MR of 5 means they are toast if you are fighting anyone with a jot of astral magic. - HP 21, Pro 4, Morale 15, MR 5, Str 15, Att 13, Def 10, Move 3 FS Id find something better to do with your nature gems. Celestial Soldier (Conj 6 S1A2) These guys are excellent late-game soldiers with all-around solid combat stats. They cost 8 air gems for 5 of them and require an A2S1 caster, so only a certain percentage of your Celestial Masters will be able to summon these tanks. - HP 38, Pro 17, Morale 17, MR 15, Str 18, Att 15, Def 12, Move 2 Sacred They do not have magic weapons and are large (size 4) so small and ethereal foes can bog them down. Still, I try to have a Celestial Master who can summon these on my active war fronts to give my forces some tough meat to survive any mass damage battlefield spells. Celestial Soldiers are sacred as well so can be quite effective depending on your bless. Ancestor Spirits These little buggers can only be summoned on the battlefield but can be quite effective at slowing down your enemies efforts to get across the battlefield. - HP 1, Pro 0, Morale 30, MR 11, Str 1, Att 8, Def 8, Move 2, Sacred, Ethereal The low level version of this spell is not particularly useful as you only get 1, but the higher level one can be an thug killer. Think Swarm but with 20+ ethereal, paralyzing gnats that do 5 Armor Negating damage. You can grind your enemy to halt spamming this spell though it does take some micro management as a result of the 1D gem cost. National Spells Celestial Chastisement (Evo 1 S2) This nasty little spell is yet another trick in Tien Chins robe of many sleeves. It is 100 Precision and causes a nice 7AN damage that is irresistible and has a chance of enslaving your enemy (MR does resist). I think is gives a +4 MR save so you may need some penetration boosters to help boost its effectiveness. The one trick is its only range 15 so you will probably want to script it a bit later in the combat sequence and have some decent bodyguards around the mages that you plan to cast with. Internal Alchemy (Alt 3 W2S1) This weird spell that costs 2 water gems reduces the caster age by 15 years. It also will give them insanity (5) and 2 experience stars. Since the only guys you have who can cast it are the Celestial Masters, who are not Old, it does not appear too useful. However, the experience bonus will increase your leadership from 10 to 25 which could be useful. Pretender Design Thoughts I am not one for scripting an entire game so will leave out specific Pretender builds for the good reader but here are some thoughts. Obviously you cannot have everything so need to make tradeoffs here. The one thing I would not skimp on is an Earth Blessing. Blessings Your only sacred, recruitable troops are the Ancestor Vessels. While they are excellent units, they are capital only and they are not the real strength of LA TC so I would not recommend building a bless strategy based solely on them. That said, with their ranged attacks, a Death Blessing can make them extremely nasty / a joy to play and your opponents will come to loathe your hit and run tactics. But given LA TCs real strength is in their mages, all of whom are sacred, an Earth Bless is almost a requirement. Magic Paths Fire and Blood are absent from TC. You wont miss much ignoring them. High level Astral is very useful for TC. First, it can help you bridge many paths to boosters by allowing you to forge a Ring of Wizardry. Second, it makes a late game tactic, Master Enslave, possible / more effective, along with Wish. Finally Earth is a must to give your magi a reinvigoration bless. High level Death can be fun for the Death blessing that synergizes well with TCs sacred ranged troops and its effective combat magi. It also helps ensure you can summon Tartarians, another important late-game strategy. Scales * Order / Turmoil: Order 3 is a must. Period. Your troops and mages are not the most expensive, but nor are they cheap and you will want to buy as many as you can. * Production / Sloth: can be useful, and I actually took a Production 1 scale in my big LA TC game, but I have come to question the value of Production. It certainly can help drive early game expansion, but I question its usefulness in the long-run as your end game battles will depend more on your magi and summoned troops, and you will find that gold will most often be your bottleneck not resources. So Id suggest thinking about some serious Sloth. Besides, LA TC is still a bureaucracy and sloth is quite in line. * Growth / Death: I typically dont mess around too much with Death or Growth. Your Battle-Mages are all old but as long as you are neutral here, you wont have too many geezers kicking the bucket. I am no expert on these particular scales but Id suggest neutral. * Luck / Misfortune: Most people say take Misfortune 2 if you have Order 3. I have to say though that I love Luck, even if it doesnt synergize with Order. Anything that can get you more Gold, more Gems, more Magic Items, more Heroes, and less Lab accidents is worth its weight in gold, especially if you hit a lucky event early on in the game - it can literally give you a huge advantage. I will usually try to squeeze in at least Luck 1. Not to beat a dead horse on Luck but the TC heroes are nice to get early as they can make excellent mobile leaders and help you bootstrap up the magic levels. * Magic / Drain: As for Magic, there is no way you should even think about taking Drain. I would go for Magic 3 and race up the research ladder. It will also help reduce your fatigue, which can be the Achilles heel of TCs Battle-magi if left untreated. Tactics / Strategies Many ideas are covered throughout with respect to the particular units but here is a summary of some things to be thinking about as LA TC: Communions Read up on Baalzs awesome guide on communions here. You should eventually have a large amount of astral casters with all sorts of additional paths. Communions boost holy levels too so will help shore up your lack of powerful priests. You will want a way to cast divine blessing, and communions are one of the easiest ways. Learn to set up reverse communions as well and use Banishment per Meglobobs suggestion in Baalz guide if you need to deal with Ermor or Pan undead chaff. Vine Ogre / Smiths Your N2 mages with a Thistle Mace and Ivory Crown can churn out Vine Ogres. Send them forth to conquer with your Smiths, who can boost their protection. This can make for tough squads of high morale / high HP beings useful in the late game Enslave / Master Enslave Your S2 Celestial Masters with Starshine Skullcap and Crystal Coin make effective enslavers. Communion boosting for Master Enslave is risky as it will take a huge Fatigue blast on your communion slaves see MaxWilsons note on fatigue cost. But if you have a high level Astral Pretender or the Master of the Iron Crutch with 3 miscellaneous slots you can use him to Master Enslave your foes and watch them cry as their troops are assimilated into the TC collective. Research If you can stay out of war, I would go for Construction, at level 4 you can forge Skull Mentors and research will really take off. TC really shines with high level of research where powerful combat spells with low path requirements become available. Rather than script a path, I have tried to cite spell levels so you can see which are some of the more important schools, like Alteration and Evocation. If facing undead or low MR powerful races, then Thaumaturgy. I think getting to Construction 8 can be a nice possibility for TC. Since they are somewhat of a jack-of-all trades, master of none magically, a lot of the Level 8 boosters will be a huge benefit to them. For example, they can bootstrap into A4 with a Fairy Queen and Tome of High Power, or A2 Ancestor Guide, Tome of High Power, Ring of Wizardry. A4 is critical to get the Bag of Wind and Winged Helmet that boost your Air. These can then be given to your Ancestor Guides (or Fairy Queens) at your key battle fronts to help you cast Fog Warriors or Storm Warriors, important defensive spells for the late game. Of course there are a number of other great reasons to hit Con 8 first, like the Chalice and the Sceptre of Dark Regency, which will make your life much, much easier. The Sword of Injustice plus a Mound Fiend gets you another H3 caster in addition to your prophet useful if you are fighting a 2 front war and need another Divine Bless caster. Given LA TC has cheap sacred magi recruitable everywhere, and early access to Skull Mentors and Owl Quills, you have a great shot to win the Con 8 race. Thaum is a good school to work on for remote site searching early on, but I generally will switch to physical searching to save on gems and get more sites at once since many of your mages will have 3 schools. PD TC has pretty strong PD with 1 footmen and 2 archers for each point . At level 20, you get a Spirit Master and PD points over 20 give you Barbarian Heavy Horsemen. Pretty cost effective but I usually leave it at 1 until I border the AI or a foe or have some extra gold, at which point I will raise it to 10 to try and catch enemy scouts. Against stealthy foes it is probably worth it to pay up higher. Bootstrapping TC is well-suited to boot strap its way up the ladder in Nature, Death, Air, and Earth magic. Once you get going be sure to read sector24s awesome guide on how to do this here Remote Assassination You will eventually have access to at least 3 forms of remote assassination and mixing them up can keep your enemy off balance. It is especially pleasant to hold off on remote assassinations until a key moment and then launch as many as you can at once hopefully causing your foe an unintended bowel release when he checks his turn. - Earth Attack (Conj 8 E5) - Manifestation (Conj 8 D5) - Mind Hunt (Evo 6 S4) Some Common Threats and How to Deal Darkness The ruin of many a non-undead nation, Darkness can make your life tough. Assuming you are fighting undead who are the most likely to use it, you can set up communions to cast Antimagic ( do this first), then Solar Brilliance (Ench 7 S5). Beware the blindness caused by Solar Brilliance is tough to get rid of via healing including the Chalice. Other ways to deal with Darkness are summoning your own undead troops to fight and using 100 precision spells. Demons Their high MR makes them tough foes. Focus on disrupting your enemies Blood economy with remote attack spells like Ghost Riders. You can also screw their Blood magic with spells like Rain of Stones, that can wipe out their Blood slave - whoops, where did Greta go? In addition, you will eventually have a W3 Celestial Master, who when equipped with a Water Bracelet and Robe of the Sea can cast Demon Cleansing. Also take a look at some of the Astral items you can forge, like Herald Lances. Giants Usually have low MR so you can spam Disintegrate, Charm, and Enslave. For those low protection Utsgard Woodsmen use lots of archers. Even better, give any high defense commander an Eye Shield, and watch their nation crumble (thanks to Cleveland for that lesson). Anything not Cold Resistant Frozen Heart, repeat. Wife or Significant Other "We need to spend some time together - why do you think that game is so fun" Your on your own on this one buddy - this would take a whole book of strategies....:) See thread for helpful contributors - thanks. |
Re: LA Tien Chi: Strategy for the Battle Mage Nation
Cool guide!
In my experience LA T'ien Ch'i is a pretty tough nation with lots of possibilities. One thing I like to do is let my battle mages fight up front (especially ancestor smith), even with old age they are quite the fighters (thinking of Discworld and Cohen the barbarian). Oh, and old age on ancestor smiths disappear if they get a nature random giving them 15 (18 with the magic sword that he comes with) in both basic attack and defense value, 15 in MR and 15 in morale. The cost is only 200 and they are sacred. Basic spells for them to cast in melee (besides personal buffs) are of course the thematic hand of dust/death and fist of iron (haiaaa!). http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif |
Re: LA Tien Chi: Strategy for the Battle Mage Nati
This guide was likely crafted by enslaved manikins...
Brilliant guide DC. Recommend highlighting TC's remote assassination abilities; I lost sleep trying to figure out how to counter both Earth Elementals AND Ashen Angels. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif |
Re: LA Tien Chi: Strategy for the Battle Mage Nati
Good work DC! One question though, how strong earth bless would you recommend and how's your god initial status (awake/dormant/jail)?
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Re: LA Tien Chi: Strategy for the Battle Mage Nati
Dedas and C, thanks for the comments, I never noticed the N staved off old age and should definitely talk about remote assassination, which also includes Mind Hunt.
I will update the guide later. Zenzei, I went with a dormant Cyclops E9 bless no other magic. Synergizes nicely with your mages already respectable armor, and the reinvigoration is key to getting the most use out of your mages in long battles. I never really missed Fire magic I had some Enchantresses who could forge Rune Smashers which are great to use in conjunction with Disintegrate, Charm and Enslave. I did slightly miss Blood magic in the endgame where spamming Doom Horrors and Disease Demons are cost-effective tactics but you can get Blood magic through Tarts or Enslaving then Gift of Reasoning your foes. I think forgetting about Blood and Fire though is not a significant sacrifice given TCs complete versatility everywhere else, and the fact you can protect yourself from fire with Army of Gold an Earth spell and your mobile horsemen can quickly recapture lands taken by Doom Horrors as well as protect almost 100% against Disease Demons. |
Re: LA Tien Chi: Strategy for the Battle Mage Nati
Hehe, very good guide DC. A couple thoughts you might want to include:
Though it's implied you might want to make a special note that weapons of sharpness fits very nicely in your research path, casting ability, and units. Summon earthpower + boots + 1 earth gem makes most anybody not quite sure if they want to close on those horsemen or just sit under the wind guided barrage. Plus, armor piercing on the first strike lances will take out virtually any SC if he's dumb enough to come alone. Also, I find it hard to justify using air gems for anything much other than winged shoes so your mages don't slow down your rapid movement. You definitely hit the nail on the head that one of LA TCs great strengths is mobility, bring your mages along for the fun. Also, it's worthwhile to consider a death blessing which offers some interesting strategies with holy archers and holy mages. The death weapons don't pass to missiles or spells but the extra affliction chance does. Who wants to run through your solid PD, with ancestor vessels and blade wind spewing smiths bestowing liberal afflictions while sitting in the back row then running away without a loss when the PD breaks? Very effective hit and run tactics if you're being invaded by an overwhelming force. Then for the really evil there's fun things like +400% affliction rain of stones. This also solves the problem of Celestial soldiers not having magic weapons. Also, with your awesome archery I find destruction is a very high priority for research. Remember, destruction not only removes armor it also destroys shields! Those composite bows are practically 50 cal machine guns against armorless guys with no shields. I'd also fill out the celestial chastisement section, this is a great spell under the right circumstances. Think charm except they take unresistable AN damage if they *pass* the MR check. Ancestor vessels' arrows cause fear, and you've also got mages who can spam panic and terror. There are worse uses of your death gems than conjuring ghosts or other fear aura troops while leveraging your mobility to cut off the retreat of whoever you're planning on routing. Don't discount how effective this can be, particularly if you're clever about fighting in your dominion and you time it so that the enemy is partially starving. Pay attention to the terrain and leverage your mobility to control when and where the fighting happens. Hit and run, hit and run, causing afflictions all the way, then blamo that huge army chases you into a wasteland and promptly breaks and is killed to a man with hardly a friendly casualty. |
Re: LA Tien Chi: Strategy for the Battle Mage Nati
Death bless may not be the best bless, even for LA T'ien Ch'i, but I think it's the best nation to take a Death bless with.
Sacred archers and mages. There is no other nation that benefits so much from Death on it's sacreds. |
Re: LA Tien Chi: Strategy for the Battle Mage Nati
Thanks Baalz, great input - as usual what I expect from your evil genius. I will include when I update the guide. On the air gem point, I may overestimate its value but came to feel Fog Warriors is almost a must in major late game clashes so tended to use my Air gems on Bags of Winds and Winged Helmets, not too mention an Air Queen when available. Air gems always felt in tight supply so it is a tough call on how to allocate them. Terrain can slow down your cavalry so I guess the choice on Winged Boots depends on how your map looks. I also liked forging Bows of War - 5 air gems and 13 magic arrows helps counter Fog Warriors, especially when you throw it in the hands of a Sleeper with Boots of Speed.
On spamming panic and terror, this goes to my point about the Death casters being so useful it is challenging to decide how best to use them. I found Wrath of the Ancestors a very effective Death spell - 20+ little ethereal paralyzing spirits can completely plug up your enemies efforts to get to your archers, locking them down under a rain of arrows. And I think a Death blessing is a perfect fit for TC and fun to use just to make you a totally unpalatable enemy. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif |
Re: LA Tien Chi: Strategy for the Battle Mage Nati
Might be worth noting that while your mages tend towards the old, you do have a national ritual ('Inner Alchemy') that can reduce age. The usual 'ring of regeneration to stave off death by disease' road is also accessible. A ring will also help stop the Master of the Iron Crutch from dying of his own leprosy cloud.
Regarding Lu-Tung Pin, I don't recall his stats, but he's a flying immortal who's a decent swordsman, but better used as a combat mage -- he's rather nasty with Astral Fires, for instance. |
Re: LA Tien Chi: Strategy for the Battle Mage Nati
Thanks, Taqwus - added.
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Re: LA Tien Chi: Barbarian Kings Strategy Guide 2.0
Thanks for this cool guide, Don C!
I'm subbing an LA TC nation for the first time and it's really helpful. Just one correction (I don't know if this changed in a patch since you wrote the guide), the Ancestor Guide (200G /11R) is not D2A1 + A or S or N or D, it's D2A1 + A/E/S/N. |
Re: LA Tien Chi: Barbarian Kings Strategy Guide 2.0
Lu-Tung Pin is immortal teleporting dueler. He is very evil :)
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Re: LA Tien Chi: Barbarian Kings Strategy Guide 2.0
vfb, thanks - that was probably a typo. Unfortunately, when I try to edit the guide now that it is in the "upgraded" forums, it seems it is now "too much text" for one post. So I will have to leave it alone until I figure out the best way to clean it up.
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Re: LA Tien Chi: Barbarian Kings Strategy Guide 2.0
Thank you for this excellent guide
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Re: LA Tien Chi: Barbarian Kings Strategy Guide 2.0
Ancestor Vessels are cool for 2 reasons - stats and magical frightening arrows.
But really, getting to account their low price and the fact they are cap only, I believe you need high dominion, as you would prefer to have them a lot. Because of arrows, I believe it is better to have many non-blessed of them then small amount of blessed. For arrows bless doesn't matter, unless you choose death, but it's risky. So, if you have high dominion.. your maximum synergy will be : good scales, high dominion, two-headed awake regenerating pretender, who spreads dominion from turn 1 and who , with high dominion (9-10) adds to points spend on this dominion a lot of sense. So, no blesses! |
Re: LA Tien Chi: Barbarian Kings Strategy Guide 2.0
As DC says, any bless would really be for your mages, which you'll be getting more mileage out of. Even a lowly E4 bless will have a noticeable impact on their battlefield longevity.
But I agree the ancestor vessels are cool, probably cool enough to allow you to safely take an awake pretender. |
Re: LA Tien Chi: Barbarian Kings Strategy Guide 2.0
Yes, it would be cool to have wyrm with 4d or 4e, both benefit sacreds and wyrm greatly..but it is hard to beat mentioned synergies.Just some people proposed different blesses here. 4E is nice.But you will have just 2 times larger empire with wyrm that without it in 10, sometimes in 20 turns.It means more money, more castles, more of any units.. It is hard to believe that +2 reinvig would beat it at any phase of the game.
In the beginning - whyrm is much better then any bless. In midgame you are not going to put your sacreds on first line, so they never fight..just shoot. And it means you would prefer more of them then blessed..And you don't have so many mages yet that they would make weather. In endgame you just will buy more of anything, because you have more gold, gems, armies, castles, magic, research. So +2 reinvigoration will never compensate it even here. It is hard to imagine, what exactly should be sacrificed without loosing all synergies, to get this E4 |
Re: LA Tien Chi: Barbarian Kings Strategy Guide 2.0
Having 20 provinces by year 2 is great. If you can hold them.
Per DC, one of TC's strengths is their perceived weakness. Nobody's going to feel too threatened by you early, unless you make a meteoric rise up the province graph. Then they'll be coming out of the woodwork to tagteam you. Best to have an unassuming opening that you can properly defend. Give yourself a chance to let that research develop, then surprise everyone when your battle magic comes online. |
Re: LA Tien Chi: Barbarian Kings Strategy Guide 2.0
LA TC seems to have risen in profile since I wrote the guide, but at the time it was a rather unassuming nation. I endorse Cleveland's comments though. In the real world, ultra rapid expansion just means you are public enemy one and TC can expand pretty fast as it is just with its core units. Anyway, I prefer a more subtle approach than a rampaging Wyrm and I see a pretender as one of the best late game units you can have so don't much like the Wyrm tactic.
And the E bless means every one of those awesome non-capital battle mages is going to survive and keep ticking a lot longer than they would otherwise. The Ancestor Vessels are just icing on the cake, but I wouldn't take a bless for them. My thesis here was to capitalize on LA TCs awesome battle mages. |
Re: LA Tien Chi: Barbarian Kings Strategy Guide 2.0
Interesting. I'll try my build in MP , whiсh just starts on llama and report here then :)
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Re: LA Tien Chi: Barbarian Kings Strategy Guide 2.0
I disagree greatly with you militarist. I am on turn 79 of my LA TC game and in a near fight for the win with Jomon. It's not clear who has the advantage at the moment.
Here are some comments: I took an imprisoned master lich with E9D9 wacky scales and Dom6. Its amazing. I don't recommend that build again but some parts of it are wonderful. You have near the best mages in LA all of which are sacred and a bunch of them excellent thugs with no gear and a bless. For expansion, an ancestor smith leading 5 blessed ancestor vessels can take any independent province without losses. You can make one of those every turn with only Dom 5 That's 6 expansion parties by turn 6. Your initial expansion far surpasses a single awake pretender who can still only take one province a turn. I killed my first opponent by the end of year 1. It was Caelum and 5 of my AV's killed 10 of his mammoths with support troops. Until someone can field evocations, AV's are unstoppable with a bless. You also have dirt cheap recruitable thugs under CBM. Khans have fear. With 5 heavy cavalry a Khan can take out a very large chaff army. And so what if he dies? He cost you zero gems. Or if you want, stick a demon whip on him for fun. Ancestor smiths make great thugs with just Alt 3 and Conj 3. The death bless is not required. However, there is nothing quite as satisfying as 20 AV's set to fire crippling 50 giants before they close. And when they close the AV's eat them. Add that to some evocations or mind burns and you have a lot of dead giants. I sent AV's at a ratio of about 1:2 against vans. Almost lossless for me and the only Vans leaving were terribly crippled. When my game is over I plan to write a new guide. The point of this build was massed magic with a few AV's. I never did make a lot but since I expanded fastest of everyone I just rushed people. My opponent with Jomon has gone with a turtle strategy and that may win. It's very hard to tell. However, TC is a mage bless nation IMO and any mage bless does wonders for AV's which is just gravy. |
Re: LA Tien Chi: Barbarian Kings Strategy Guide 2.0
Thanks, Maerlande, it's detailed.
What do you think if its 250%gold and resource, difficult research and 45% magic sites? Indep. strength is 8? That makes initial expansion much slower, with usual forces,while wyrm still takes almost any province. And magic is less important at early game. As for Khans, cool advice. What build would you recommend to try for these rules? The difference between someone taking 1-2 provinces per 3 turns, and a nation with Wyrm, in growth will be 2 times at least. And with my build I could take magic+2,order 3 and don't sacrifice other scales too much without sucrificing something but production? P.S. Were VANs you mentioned well blessed as well? |
Re: LA Tien Chi: Barbarian Kings Strategy Guide 2.0
Honestly, E9 AVs will expand against pretty much any indy strength. You might need 1 or 2 more per party, but against most things it won't matter. The problem with a Wyrm is that if you lose it, you're screwed, since TC doesn't really have very good priests. You lose an expansion party of AVs its no big.
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Re: LA Tien Chi: Barbarian Kings Strategy Guide 2.0
With 250% gold and resources? That means you can hire more Vessels. You might want to bump dominion higher, because even at 60g each you'll be hitting that limit quickly.
I haven't played much with indy strength 8, but I'd expect with maybe a little picking of targets you could be sending out an expansion party every turn. 7-8 double bless AVs should rip through almost anything. If you're only taking 1-2 provinces per 3 turns with double bless sacreds, you're doing something wrong. The Wyrm gets you a province per turn, unless he gets killed or crippled. A double bless should get you close to a province per turn per turn. Your limit is likely to be terrain and chokepoints. |
Re: LA Tien Chi: Barbarian Kings Strategy Guide 2.0
Hmm, a rich game.
I would take something like order 3, a bit of sloth (because I'm in a rich game and you can't spend all the resources), heat zero, growth +1, L0 or 1, magic 1. Then see what you can get for an E9 chassis either sleeping or imprisoned. Lord of plenty looks viable. Cyclops is too expensive for a bless chassis because you want great scales. Don't take a rainbow chassis because you need high dom. Dom 8 is probably good. You'll get it to 10 soon enough. Growth is really good for rich. And it's always nice to have a bit of luck. But for a rich game I've thought some more. Why don't you take a sleeping rainbow with Dom 6 and great scales like I have above. Try for the following minor blesses: E4, D4, W4, N4, and B4 Skip S probably. That bless would be great on AV's and you could make a lot. I got a Master druid with O3S3H0G1L0M1 and F2A1W4E4D4N4. Very fine light bless. You could imprison it for better magic and scales. You don't really need it since you have fine site searches in almost all paths. |
Re: LA Tien Chi: Barbarian Kings Strategy Guide 2.0
One more option. And S9 oracle could be awesome. Not so important for the AV's but great for naked magi and wonderful for later wishing.
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Re: LA Tien Chi: Barbarian Kings Strategy Guide 2.0
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Re: LA Tien Chi: Barbarian Kings Strategy Guide 2.0
I am currently playing Tien Ch'i in a rich settings game. I went with E9S4 on my God (Lord of Plenty), for similar reasoning. E9 for mages and Ancestor Vessels, S4 to make it easier to get up the S ladder, Lord of Plenty's magic gem providing is useful (although in retrospect, I might have stuck more paths on him if I'd known how the gem providing worked), and he can fight in a pinch with a few items and E/S spells.
So far I have no complaints. |
Re: LA Tien Chi: Barbarian Kings Strategy Guide 2.0
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Re: LA Tien Chi: Barbarian Kings Strategy Guide 2.0
Lu-Tung Pin is arguably the best mind hunter in game. Rune smasher+the green eye+eye of the void+spell focus=+7 penetration bonus in total and being immortal he can recover from feeblemind automatically.
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Re: LA Tien Chi: Barbarian Kings Strategy Guide 2.0
Nah. That title goes to MA arcoscephale. Every fourth astrologer can cast mind hunt by himself, and the priestesses heal them really quickly.
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Re: LA Tien Chi: Barbarian Kings Strategy Guide 2.0
But Lu-Tung Pin has 3 misc slots in CBM so he gets more penetration bonus...
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Re: LA Tien Chi: Barbarian Kings Strategy Guide 2.0
So does a crone. Probably the best overall would be a crone, or perhaps Agarthas immortal risen oracle... also 3 misc if I remember.
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Re: LA Tien Chi: Barbarian Kings Strategy Guide 2.0
Thanks for advice everyone, I was really very close to make a mistake.
I went with imprisoned Lord of plenty, so gem income is not important, but E9/S9 should be amazing for bless and late game. Expansion went well enough (LARG1 game on llamaserver) - on turn 24 I'm top 1 by provinces, wars were extremely effective against several nations -because of vessels, barbarian horses,and later - communion mages are very cool. I see that I seriously underestimated this nation. |
Re: LA Tien Chi: Barbarian Kings Strategy Guide 2.0
You might consider yourself lucky - you found a winning strategy.
In my experience the LA nations are really even and play quite similarly (cookie cutter infantry, archers, cavalry, and capable recruit anywhere mages) with a few outliers like Mictlan or Utgard who have slightly different approaches. I guess my point is, in the LA particularly you can get most any nation working under the right circumstances :p LA T'ien Ch'i is also one of my favorites for the versatility and strength of all of its mages. Quote:
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Re: LA Tien Chi: Barbarian Kings Strategy Guide 2.0
Ok, we have finished the game. Not because it was won by someone, just we had too many newbies who just left the game setting nation to AI or even worse, just stalling for years.
That's some of my experience: My bless was E9S9 imprisoned pretender. Perfect for everything. The main killing power is mages,different kinds of tham. Your mages have high diversity. I mostly used 3 spells - destruction, cold blast (it's use is tricky to build a script and formation for the battle properly, but it's still much better use of fatigue then sailor's death or cold bolt unless you have pen. items for sailor's death caster), and, if mage can use nothing from these (those who have N/D), I mostly used call ancestor spam to give mages more time for doing their job. Later wind guide is a must, of course. I used archers. A lot of archers. Sacred vessels were used mostly as protection units. I was leading all charts during a long period, killed Panagea's main armies after which they went AI. Minotaurs and Centaurs were solved by destruction and rust myst, and at the same time I had a war with Midgaard: I won them without taking any castle. I just took all the usual provinces, and build PD there.Without wasting time on castles, it was a really fast war. Isolated castles were not able to produce amount of units which was effective in killing PD. The player made mistakes though, he tried to send against me mostly skinshifters, which were useless against arrows. At some point I took all provinces excluding those where castles were standing. When I was going to start conquering castles, it's turned out that Ermor also is going to fight with me for these castles. With Ermor I had many bright battles , mostly on the provinces, where Midgard's castles were standing. Thanks to the fact that most of my mages have H1, I won all major battles and went directly to Ermor capital. To the moment when we decided to finish game, I was probably second in province charts, with good distance from 3d and small to 1st. The reason why it happened - was smart Burden of time cast of Ermor. Having all your mages old when fighting Ermor is a real pain. The 1st in charts was Atlantis. Who was the only water nation(!), and whose mages are invulnerable to burden of time. So, I would say TC's PD can really be a heavy part of a strategy, unlike most of other nations. And you have perfect synergy or archers/destruction/water/air spells. Amazing nation. You research fast the early game winning combination of spells and you are unstoppable. |
Re: LA Tien Chi: Barbarian Kings Strategy Guide 2.0
You're not unstoppable, by any means.
Nice nation, but you will still have problems with nations that expand faster than you do. |
Re: LA Tien Chi: Barbarian Kings Strategy Guide 2.0
Interesting how nations can come and go in perceived strength / popularity. Probably somewhat correlated to patches/CB nerfs or boosts, but also just having more players try them out. As time goes on there probably aren't so many hidden gems.
When I wrote this, TC did not seem to be seen as such a powerful nation as it is now. The comments on lying low or that TC is underrated are probably outdated in these modern times. |
Re: LA Tien Chi: Barbarian Kings Strategy Guide 2.0
I don't think it was underrated even back in the days, just that R'lyeh and Ermor were considered more dominant - R'lyeh has certainly seen nerfs since back then.
I think TC is solidly in the top tier of the LA, with nations like Agartha, Midgard, and Marignon having similar utility and strength. Other nations like Mictlan, Ulm, or Utgard have separate, yet individually effective, ways to excel in the LA. The LA playing field is pretty level as far as I am concerned. (I am not attempting to invalidate your statement, just that while TC is top-tier in the LA it has plenty of companions). |
Re: LA Tien Chi: Barbarian Kings Strategy Guide 2.0
Has anyone managed to create Gem efficient thugs from the young Ancestor Smiths? (Ancestor Smiths and Ancestor Guides who get a nature pick turn young)
With 15 Attack, 15 Defense, 2 Earth magic, sacred on a nation that likes an earth bless anyway and a built in sword with +3 attack / defense and fear on hit, they seem like they should not be scared of melee. And in tests, they can indeed fight solo against huge numbers of PD, given enough gear. Even some of the old ones can fight pretty well, for example Ancestor Smiths with astral, or ancestor guides with 2 air, as long as they get only -2 penalty from age, not -3. (old ones tend to need an extra piece of gear to manage fatigue though) But, they need a vine shield or eye shield if you want to live dangerously (can't forge gleaming gold with nation paths). Without a shield they die unless they can pack into a square with another guy. They need a new weapon next, since they start with a two handed weapon. Probably frost brand, although almost anything will do. (They have such good stats they can repel really well with a longer weapon) And of course, a lucky pendant. At that point, you might be tempted to stop, but Blessing, Summon Earth Power, Invulnerability, hold, hold, attack is too much fatigue due to their encumbering armor, even for the young ones, even with the e9/n4 bless. They can either do Bless/Earthpower/Stoneskin or Bless/Earthpower/Ironskin if you want to live a bit dangerously with fatigue. So without invulnerability, you might want a helmet for them, and a lot of their spellcasting encumbrance issues will be solved/greatly reduced by throwing a 0-1 encumbrance chest armor on them. Oddly enough, a shroud might be worth it, as lets them cast Earthpower/Invulnerability/hold/hold/hold pretty safely, unlike one enc armor. They are certainly thuggable in the sense that they can kill/rout hundreds of human soldiers with spears with little risk, even without a brand, but it seems a little bit risky to use them as thugs in multiplayer, when they need probably 4 crafted items minimum, one being 10n, and they can still die to a heavy cavalry who gets really lucky in one hit. |
Re: LA Tien Chi: Barbarian Kings Strategy Guide 2.0
Sounds like you're trying to turn them into SCs, which they'll never be. It looks like, from what you're saying, they could be perfectly serviceable thugs with just a brand and a shield. Cast iron skin, don't worry about the hat. That's still 20 head protection. For most things that should be plenty enough for a thug.
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Re: LA Tien Chi: Barbarian Kings Strategy Guide 2.0
Eh, you can use them to thug in a pinch (as your testing indicates), but by the time you're dumping 20+ gems worth of items on a guy its usually worthwhile to consider just summoning a light thug chasis like a sleeper or bane lord. Hmmm, actually in this case I might look at using Khans.
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Re: LA Tien Chi: Barbarian Kings Strategy Guide 2.0
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Re: LA Tien Chi: Strategy for the Battle Mage Nati
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Re: LA Tien Chi: Barbarian Kings Strategy Guide 2.0
The main problem with that is you need to focus research on Thaumaturgy and Evocation when Tien Chi also really likes Alteration, Enchantment, Construction, and Conjuration (those Celestial Soldiers are really good in CBM, if you have a good bless), and you can't possibly cover them all. Tien Chi doesn't have the stealth or flying options to really leverage army routing, so it's good, but maybe not better than going mainly Smiths spamming Destruction and buffing all your heavy cavalry with Legions of Steel, Strength of Giants, and Weapons of Sharpness. And if you're going construction for weapons of sharpness, it can be pretty fun to grab some artifacts too, with the Ark seemingly made for TC.
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Re: LA Tien Chi: Barbarian Kings Strategy Guide 2.0
While it's a perfectly valid point that TC likes a lot of paths early and can do very nice things with all of them, you're comparing evo 4 or maybe 5 (to grab shadow blast, gifts from heaven, healing mists, falling frosts, storm, etc all in one go) with having 3 enchantment, 4 alteration, and 7-8 construction. Enchantment 3 and construction 1 is a somewhat comparable option, but I would prefer to go with either evo or alt 4 over the enchantment route.
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Re: LA Tien Chi: Barbarian Kings Strategy Guide 2.0
High enchantment has some interesting synergies with an E9 Cyclops pretender, with order and magic scales for your armored old guy mages. TC should have a very healthy earth income, so with just a little luck and heavy research down enchantment, you can cast a reasonably hard to dispel Earthblood Well as soon as your pretender breaks free. Along the way, you also get flaming arrows, enliven statues, hidden in sand, arrow fend, and mass flight. Only the last 2 are immediately useable unless you luck onto fire indies for flaming arrows, but they are nasty enough. Arrow fend forces the enemy to either lose in a shootout or close to melee with heavy cavalry, and if the enemy is so ranged heavy that they will still win, mass flight guarantees your cavalry gets to close. Sure they can cast storm, but it just weakens their ranged firepower enough for cavalry to close the old fashioned way.
The well gives you more options. Hidden in sand is pretty efficient with order and magic, and gets you a sacred thug chasis roughly equal to banelord, a bunch of tough undead, and a good probability of a mage that breaks you into fire and higher death as well as the fire/death combo for 35 earth gems in CBM. As far as I can tell, it's also the only way to break into fire for LA TC. An E9 caster with earth boots gets 24 good blockers/arrow catchers with just one casting of enliven statues. And of course, all those earth gems come in handy when you head down construction. |
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