Time to increase number of provinces again?
 

When you start a game in Dom3 it has 3 random choices which it calls small, medium, and large. It defines those maps as 10 provinces per player, 15 per player, and 20 per player.

Now I know that I dont play normally but the latest game Im playing is running maxed nations (recently raised to 95) on a max map (1500 provinces). That makes it a ration of 15 provinces per player. The conflicts came abit fast for me.

Re: Time to increase number of provinces again?
 

I can't justify saying it's a bad idea, just that I would very, very rarely play on anything bigger than 200 provinces.

1500 I wouldn't touch with a barge pole.

So I don't care either way.

Re: Time to increase number of provinces again?
 

Raising unit limit is a more urgent need.

Re: Time to increase number of provinces again?
 

yeah the largest map that came with the game (glory of the gods?) was MORE than large enough for me

Re: Time to increase number of provinces again?
 

Already in the next patch.


I'm not sure I see a purpose in limiting province count, unless there is some sort of hard-coded database constraint. Otherwise, I would think that most players would know where their comfort level is, and the few who would actually desire it larger, would be happy. So no one loses! As long as it's just a little tweak that's needed. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: Time to increase number of provinces again?
 

There is.
It definetly affects many other arrays. Increasing the nations limit, affects the in-game messages, which affects the scout reports and seeing what is in the provinces next to you.

But then increasing the provinces has affects on the battles array amoung other things.

I have to probe those limits.

Re: Time to increase number of provinces again?
 

I would find it a little irritating if the province limit were increased to satisfy the (from my perspective) crazy people who need more than 1500 provinces and that in turn broke something that actually mattered to the majority of dom3 players.

Re: Time to increase number of provinces again?
 

Well that could be said of any increases couldnt it?
What we are talking about is something that could be called broke due to increasing the nation numbers for the modders but I wouldnt put it that way. Every increase seems to bump up against some cap which needs to be increased which then bumps against another cap.

Also what I see as the most likely point of this being a problem is that the next Mega game or KingMaker will be able to be 95 players, with modded nations included. Im sure they would like to have this tested out before they are all signed up for the game and then find that it wont work.

Re: Time to increase number of provinces again?
 

I doubt anyone would swallow the argument this is something broken that needs fixing if you did make it.

Even if you do use mods to enable 95 nations in the game and actually run that mp game with 95 players, something I seriously doubt will happen, and do so without running into more restrictive limits than the province cap,.. EVEN THEN you'll still have roughly 15 provinces per player which is 'medium' and satisfactory for most people.

So I don't think it's really in the same class as other increases, like the custommagic one which allows mod nations to function properly. Those may cause problems through a knock on effect. But they also solve (at least for the time being) a genuine problem people are running in to.

Re: Time to increase number of provinces again?
 

Well that was the conversation. Whether or not it was something broken. The fact that the increase in nations has taken it beyond its own small, medium, large ratios. I have tested as much as I can and have not found any crash bug because of it, so no its probably not broken. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

I should probably look at the various mega games (3? 4?) and see what the province ratio was.

Re: Time to increase number of provinces again?
 

Well it seems to me the reason for the limit isn't just to suggest an appropriate number but really I think because of the number of units allowed in the game, which is already quite possible to hit, at which point things get a bit ugly. So seems like the unit limit should be raised first, and/or the system of adding units adjusted, perhaps so the limit is per nation, and/or there is a separate limit for commanders versus chaff, and/or a point where freespawns start becoming less frequent. Another idea is the unit limit could become a server option.

Re: Time to increase number of provinces again?
 

I like the idea of unit numbers being based on nation numbers. Having the arrays that depend on each other also build off of each other would have saved alot of time in beta testing changes.

Re: Time to increase number of provinces again?
 

The unit limit has already been increased for the next patch.

I'm with Sombre really. You'd surely have to be a masochist to want more than 1500 provinces. It was easy then fair enough, but it doesn't sound like a good use of developer time if it's going to be quite tricky.

Re: Time to increase number of provinces again?
 

I actually agree.
But then again, the Solo players seem to far outnumber the MP players. After years of solo play Im not sure how many might be tempted into larger and larger campaigns. I get a fair amount of downloads on really large maps. That might increase the need factor.

On the other hand, Im also not sure how many peoples machines could even try it. It lowers the need factor again if its only a server thing. How many mega games do we really need anyway?

Re: Time to increase number of provinces again?
 

*A solo player is summoned and gives his unrequested opinion http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif *

Oh well, actually I play almost only big SP games with /all/ the nations of one era on random, "large" maps. It takes a couple of months to me to finish one - really, larger than this is needed for MP? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/shock.gif

Re: Time to increase number of provinces again?
 

The next megagame should be played on a 95 province map. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif

Re: Time to increase number of provinces again?
 

ROTFL
Now THAT would be interesting.
95 players on a 95 province map. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif
The "My SC Pretender is better than your SC Pretender" game.
It would be like one big Arena.

edit: Hmmmm...
come to think of it. If you made the map to wipe out all units in every province then you could make it pretenders only. An Arena Game. Some people might like that idea.
At least as a change.
No castles, no units, no recruitment. Max dominion for everyone? That would mess up the builds but without it you might die from dominion first.

Re: Time to increase number of provinces again?
 

I played a 2 province per player game (SP vs 21 opponents) and it was a lot of fun but a very slow start. Once the AIs started bashing themselves against each other's walls I had a good time mopping up.

Re: Time to increase number of provinces again?
 

Mmh but that would be just unkitted SC with poor buffs... not so fun =(

Re: Time to increase number of provinces again?
 

I ofcourse am in favor of a 2500 province limit, being a masochist. So that's one vote in favor.

Re: Time to increase number of provinces again?
 

Do you even have a working copy of dom3/working computer at the moment HB?

It's hard to believe that anyone is finding 1500 too small. Especially in SP.

Re: Time to increase number of provinces again?
 

No not currently, what does that matter?

Re: Time to increase number of provinces again?
 

Psyche papers on gaming have always included the Explorer as a basic gaming type. The searching, finding, discovering, using it tactically. All of that can be the fun part of the game for some people. In Dom3 their part of the game would be over at about the time that the Strategy players game just kicks in. Dom3 obviously makes an effort to support both.

Re: Time to increase number of provinces again?
 

The idea behind a 2500 province map isn't that it necessarily be fought over, province by province, but that there would be scale involved as a direct strategic factor. It's like Australia in WW2 being fought over. It's not where the main action was, but it was where some of the bloodiest battles were fought, because there was a 'backwoods' advantage. If the Japanese had successfully taken Australia and held it, it would have been a major strategic gain.

Maps that big are more for scenarios that involve world-wide conflicts, not ones where every province is involved, so it becomes a whole different game, where you have to decide what your overall strategy even is, before you set it into motion. You've suddenly got whole "theatres" of operation to consider.

It could be a lot of fun-and still a fast-paced game, playing on a map that big, if you only play until one side or the others' home province is conquered (and if everybody knows where everybody else's home province is, at the start of the game). That way, you keep the focus, and the intensity, but also allow a great deal of side interests into the game.