Starting Population Amount
 

I have been messing around with some pretender designs / scales, starting new games just for a few turns and notice that the starting population seems to vary each time, even though I am not changing growth / death scales and always starting in the same province. Anyone know what causes this?

Thanks

Re: Starting Population Amount
 

sex.

sex causes change in population.

leasts that's i heard.

Re: Starting Population Amount
 

That's "unprotected" sex Omni - don't believe everything your momma says, including the stuff about blindness. Oh wait, maybe that's what is ruining Utgard.

Re: Starting Population Amount
 

Giants touch themselves! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/redface.gif

I always wondered why even capitals have a variable pop. I think it's mostly aesthetics, so that they're not always pegged at exactly 30000. Though, it seems to me that the variance is a little wide, I think it can go anywhere from 29000-31000, which is a decent chunk of people, especially if you DO have a Growth or Death scale that is going to compound directly from that value to the end of the game.

It takes ~11 turns to get from 29k-31k. So, one year of game time worth of your Growth can significantly impact the actual benefit of a strategy involving that scale.

Re: Starting Population Amount
 

I agree. There is no reason not to set starting capital pop to exactly 30K (except for LA Ermor, obviously). If we can have the flucuation in population, what next? Randomness in starting army? Starting leader?

Re: Starting Population Amount
 

Ouh c'mon, now let's not start with super-balancing issues ^^

I dare to disagree, it is fun (and quite irrelevant i think) this way. Surely it's an advantage. But a casual one in a big game involving many things - this time happens to you, next time to me. ^^
If we start complaining this we go back to the Monkey PD and the blessed Jarls topic ^^

Re: Starting Population Amount
 

May I say those are designed to be different, while this is random for no good reason and entirely unneccessary?

I would also think someone starting with 350G instead of 400G a small thing in such a big game, still, why do it?

Re: Starting Population Amount
 

No idea why it happens. I've noticed it too.

I'd also like to know if the terrain type of the capital matters.

Re: Starting Population Amount
 

If I remember correctly, the terrain has no affect and I would even go so far as to say that the terrain for the given province is ignored and is treated like plains even if it was tagged as swamp or waste in the map file.

Take that with a grain of salt. A lot of time and several patches have passed since I last tested it.

Re: Starting Population Amount
 

Nothing wrong with your memory.

Re: Starting Population Amount
 

I can't think of any good reason for it not to be random. Different provinces have different land areas. A capital is going to have more people than a non-capital of the same area, simply because the capital will attract people to it. Terrain type should probably have more effect than it does now.

All population below the thousands digit is just noise anyway, IMO.

Re: Starting Population Amount
 

To me the only thing "entirely unnecessary" would be losing even 1 minute, for someone doing the next patch, to change it ^_^

(jk konmig, don't take it badly http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif )

Re: Starting Population Amount
 

I like the slight random fluctuation and view it as added flavour.

Re: Starting Population Amount
 

It would tend to irritate strict strategists in multiplayer games. But since the more serious ones will create and play on balanced maps, and there is a map command to do population, I would figure that its already taken care of.

Re: Starting Population Amount
 

The difference between 29k and 31k is about 7%. Assuming about 1 gold per 100 population (I don't know precisely) that would be up to 20 gold per turn difference, from 290-310gp. To put that in perspective, if you start with lots of mountains around, the first provinces you would conquer would have under 30gp per province, but a neighbour in plains would get about 100gp per province. It's also considerably less than the admin bonuses of start cities (about 30%-60%).

Changing capital start populations (and thus income) to any particular degree dependent on terrain is in my view a *really* bad move. You would virtually write off every nation who started on mountains/wasteland the minute the game started. On the other hand, a random fluctuation of 7% is little more than flavour.

Re: Starting Population Amount
 

hmmm; changing starting cap populations could make for some interesting specialty games when combined with modded nations. like having nations with strong starting troops, but a poor starting province (kinda like barbarians looking for better land)

or a team game format wherein some teams are larger but get worse starting provinces/position.

but in normal games it feels like the variance shouldn't be more than 100 or so.

Re: Starting Population Amount
 

To me the even 1 minute spent to add this "entirely unnecessary" "feature" in the first place is "entirely unnecessary". http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: Starting Population Amount
 

Yeah but it's there, adapt or perish!!!!! XD

Re: Starting Population Amount
 

Just to clarify, this is only in regard to resources and pop, a swamp's still a swamp in terms of combat penalties and army movement, IIRC.

Re: Starting Population Amount
 

+1 for setting all provinces to 30Kin the beginning. This difference really matters, that's true.
However, I don't really believe this will be fixed http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: Starting Population Amount
 

I don't think there is a randomness added. It might be the result of scales or castles or something else, but to my knowledge the start pop is set to 30 k.

Re: Starting Population Amount
 

Don't do it Kris! Hurry, if you delete the post now, not many people will have seen it! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif Oh and delete mine too, since it quotes you. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/redface.gif

But I must say, multiple starts with the same pretender, on a map with fixed starting locations WILL in fact yield varying starting pop. <3

Just did 3 starts with same pretender, on same starting province. All 3 had different starting pop, ranging from 29560-30380. I know that the deviation is potentially larger than that, but as was pointed out, it really is just another random factor, I can deal with it - or drop over dead if it really is the end of the world. I'm pretty sure we'll be okay though. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

Re: Starting Population Amount
 

Ah, that's nice. I like randomness.

I was afraid it was all structured and balanced. We can't have that can we http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Starting Population Amount
 

KO is actually the Joker. Look at the letters. They both wear purple. You never see them together.

Coincidence? I THINK NOT!!

Re: Starting Population Amount
 

I was going to go anagram hunting, but there is no J in Kristoffer Ostermann. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif Come to think of it, I've never seen GW Bush and Satan in the same place, either. O.O

Re: Starting Population Amount
 

Or Bush and Jenna Jameson!! o.O

Re: Starting Population Amount
 

Eeeee! He has a daughter named Jenna you know..... naughty naughty.....


http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/redface.gif