Weapon modifiers need fixing
 

I ran into a problem with weapon modifiers while trying to make a mod. The idea of the mod is that bigger ships are big, bad, and can carry a lot of weapons and shielding, but they are also easy to hit with big guns. In this system, a corvette (escort) gives +30% defense while a battleship (dreadnought) has -110%. Larger mountings do proportionally more and more damage, but also become less accurate. For example, large mounting has mass *3, damage *6, accuracy -50, so it does a lot more damage than three normal mounted weapons would, but you won't hit anything below a cruiser with it. Massive mount gives mass *12, damage *48, accuracy -200, so it can only be used effectively against starbases and planets.

The mod would work great if it wasn't for the way modifiers were calculated and applied. The way it works is that the game calculates the chance to hit, sees if the number is over 100%, and if it is, changes it to 100%, THEN applies weapon modifiers. So if my heavy mounted DUC (accuracy -100) is firing at a Command Ship (defense -150), and the chance to hit at that range is normally 47%, then I should have a 97% chance to hit, right (47 + 150 - 100 = 97)? Wrong. I've got a 0% chance to hit, because instead of calculating (47 + 150 - 100 = 97) like it should, it calculates (47 + 150 = 197 = 99 - 100 = -1 = 0). What the hell is up with that?

That's incredibly stupid even if you're not making a mod like mine. Let's say you just want PPBs to be less accurate, so you give a -20 modifier. And let's say you have a ship with combat sensors III (65% bonus) firing at a ship with no ECMs or defense bonus, and the base chance to hit is 70%. Your chance to hit should be 99% (70 + 65 - 20 = 115 = 99), but instead it's 79% (70 + 65 = 135 = 99 - 20 = 79). WTF? I wonder if this represents a decision or just an oversight/bug. Can we expect a fix in the next patch?

Re: Weapon modifiers need fixing
 

Sounds like a good mod. What have you done about the talisman?

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SE4 Code:
L GdY $ Fr- C- Sd T!+ Sf-- Tcp-- A% M>M+ MpD! RV Pw Fq+ Nd- Rp+ G-
/SE4 Code
Work out your code at http://www.sandman43.fsnet.co.uk/se4main.htm

Re: Weapon modifiers need fixing
 

Keep in mind that the Ai will always use the biggest available mount and the largest available ship so you will end up with dreadnought incapable of hitting anything but planets and starbases.

Re: Weapon modifiers need fixing
 

dogscoff - Ignored it http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif I'll think up something to do with it later, but for now I don't need to because I'm only using the mod for myself and neither I nor any AI player (that I know of) uses Religious Tech.

Mephisto - Yeah, I did find that out actually when I saw that the AI had no weapons on any of their ships except the big ones because massive mounting a DUC takes 360K (or something like that). I also found out that the AI will always try to build the biggest ship they can, so I can't give all the ships at once because in the beginning it takes over 1000 turns to build a Command Ship (10,000 Kt). I suppose I could have standard SEIV mountings for the AI and the modded ones for players (racial tech "Is a Player" maybe). I'm working the kinks out.

Hotfoot - I-War board, right? I'd like to come up with new techs and combine it with other mods and whatnot, but I just don't have the patience to wade through research files. I enjoy mucking through components.txt, but messing with the AI research files is something I'm just not willing to do.

Re: Weapon modifiers need fixing
 

Hey Gritsucker! Fancy meeting you here of all places. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/ima...ons/icon12.gif

As to your mod, it sounds like it would be really interesting, but I'm afraid that I haven't even begun to muck around in files like that. So I'm afraid that this post, like many others that have come before, ultimately fits the equation PC=PC+1

Anyway, keep me posted as to how this goes. Maybe you can combine it with some of the mods that add all sorts of new ship hulls. That would be rather interesting, I would think.

-Hotfoot
"Just like always, the bit at the end."

Re: Weapon modifiers need fixing
 

OK I just tried the "Is a Player" idea and it appears the Weapon Mountings appear and are usable even if you put

Number of Tech Req := 1
Tech Area Req 1 := Is a Player
Tech Level Req 1 := 1

Can we have a fix for this too, please?

Re: Weapon modifiers need fixing
 

The obvious question is,

Does the AI HAVE the Isaplayer tech?

Barring that, the easy way out is to set a "normal" mount at the end. 100 damage %, 100 size %, no mods at all. since the AI always uses the Last in the list as long as it will fit..

Phoenix-D

Re: Weapon modifiers need fixing
 

Really? Last in the list, huh? OK, I'll keep that in mind.

Re: Weapon modifiers need fixing
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Barring that, the easy way out is to set a "normal" mount at the end. 100 damage %, 100 size %, no mods at all. since the AI always uses the Last in the list as long as it will fit..<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>That's what I did for my "Quality mounts" and it works great!

------------------
The latest info on Pirates & Nomads (forum thread).
-&lt;Download V2.3b&gt;- (Fixed rare RCE from AI; just extract to your SE4 folder)
-&lt;P&N V2 AI patch&gt;- (V2 only, for the AIs included in ZIPs from v2.0 to v2.3, prevents rare RCEs)
-&lt;Download P&N Classic&gt;- (The final release of P&N v1.x, just extract to your SE4 folder)
-&lt;Download compatible EMPs for P&N v1.2 through v1.7&gt;-
-&lt;Download SJs latest AI Patcher&gt;-
Visit My Homepage

Other Links:
-&lt;Play By Web&gt;-
-&lt;Schlock Mercenary&gt;- (great space-based webcartoon) -&lt;First Strip&gt;-
-&lt;8-bit Theater&gt;- (fun comic with the pixellated FF1 characters)

&lt;SE4Code&gt;
MpN R*-A RM(L) RP+ TCP- Fq++ FR!++ P? A+/- Sf+ Nd- L $ M++++ Pw!+
&lt;/SE4Code&gt;

Re: Weapon modifiers need fixing
 

Ahh, I always wondered why you did that. P&N rocks, btw. Although I'm not sure if you're aware that expanded automation without tiny race still gives you mini-auto bridges.

Re: Weapon modifiers need fixing
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Although I'm not sure if you're aware that expanded automation without tiny race still gives you mini-auto bridges<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>No, I didn't. That's the kind of bug reporting I need http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif.
You can count yourself one of the very few who have submitted a bug report for P&N http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/ima...ons/icon12.gif

All links to P&N v2.3b have been updated.

You can either;
A) overwrite your components.txt with this new Version.
or
B) reinstall the entire mod, overwriting files.

either way, savegames will be unaffected.
If you have Mini-Auto bridges on your design when you shouldn't, your ships will still operate, and you can even build more "illegal" ships, but all future designs will have to use the proper bridge component.

------------------
The latest info on Pirates & Nomads (forum thread).
-&lt;Download V2.3b&gt;- (Fixed rare RCE from AI; just extract to your SE4 folder)
-&lt;P&N V2 AI patch&gt;- (V2 only, for the AIs included in ZIPs from v2.0 to v2.3, prevents rare RCEs)
-&lt;Download P&N Classic&gt;- (The final release of P&N v1.x, just extract to your SE4 folder)
-&lt;Download compatible EMPs for P&N v1.2 through v1.7&gt;-
-&lt;Download SJs latest AI Patcher&gt;-
Visit My Homepage

Other Links:
-&lt;Play By Web&gt;-
-&lt;Schlock Mercenary&gt;- (great space-based webcartoon) -&lt;First Strip&gt;-
-&lt;8-bit Theater&gt;- (fun comic with the pixellated FF1 characters)

&lt;SE4Code&gt;
MpN R*-A RM(L) RP+ TCP- Fq++ FR!++ P? A+/- Sf+ Nd- L $ M++++ Pw!+
&lt;/SE4Code&gt;

[This message has been edited by suicide_junkie (edited 02 September 2001).]

Re: Weapon modifiers need fixing
 

Should I try to keep this thread alive so Aaron sees it, or should I just e-mail him?

Re: Weapon modifiers need fixing
 

Be sure: E-mail.