Returning script ignored. Bug?
 

I just wonder how could this happen. My golem was moving to castle and was scripted to cast Returning the first turn. But when he got attacked by teleporting Atlantis' KOtD he casted Personal Luck instead and was naturally killed by Magic Duel.
I strongly suppose that this is a heavy bug. Any comments?

p.s. yes, he had two gems to cast Returning.
p.p.s. I double checked the previous turn and have both files at my disposal.

Re: Returning script ignored. Bug?
 

What I found out when I ran it this with debug options...

I don't know what this means but my golem HAD gems to cast returning. He also was carrying other gems. Maybe, this matters?

Re: Returning script ignored. Bug?
 

If the golem had enough gems, it indeed sounds like a bug.

Vis means gems. The term comes from Ars Magica, a roleplaying game. It is used for magical resources that can be used to create magical items or to help the mage to complete a more powerful spell. Most vis is aligned, e.g. Ignem (fire) vis might come in the form of rubies, or Auram (air) vis as wingbones or feathers of a magical bird.

Re: Returning script ignored. Bug?
 

Well, we'll perform some testing shortly and I'll post the result here. Just tested: golem with 2 pearls always casts returning.
I have two strong suspicions:
1) he was carrying 28 D gems in addition to 2 pearls
2) he was wearing an Armor of Virtue

Re: Returning script ignored. Bug?
 

Hmmm, I wonder if somehow he was actually overflowing with D gems. I'm guessing he's got the Deathsicle, right? Maybe the extra D gems somehow screwed up the pearl count.

I had an SC cast Astral Shield once, instead of following its script for Returning. I think that was just a priority issue though. Now I always script Returning x 5 ... not that it would have helped you.

Re: Returning script ignored. Bug?
 

This happened to my Golem as well in the Fallacy game. My Golem with Returning scripted cast Personal luck instead and then got magic dueled.

I think it did not cast Returning because I had a certain amount of PD in the province and the AI thinks you should not retreat if you have other troops. It generally works when the Golem is alone.

Re: Returning script ignored. Bug?
 

We tested the nearly identical situation and Golem did cast returning successfully. Same artifacts, same gems, same script, same situation. I played with PD (from 0 to 40) and gems but always had the same result - golem did cast returning the first turn.
So probably this is a very weird and badly reproducable bug.
That golem was worth about 100 gems total (taking on account forge bonuses and not taking on account forge time and the fact that these artifacts can easily be reforged). And as it happens not first time, I think, it should be investigated by the devs.
I can provide anyone interested with the turn files and description

Re: Returning script ignored. Bug?
 

I have had the same "bug" happen to me in an 3.17 MP game with CB 1.21 and single age mod.
I had a golem carrying just the 2 astral gems needed and returning scripted as first action. He got attacked along with 3 or 4 PD by 3 enemy illusionists and ignored the scripted cast returning spell.
I would have said it was because the adverse party was not deemed threatening enough by the AI to use a spell involving a gem cost. The AI commonly ignores gems costing spells in scripts if the enemy army is too small. Problem: the golem got lighted and died with a horribly costly gear of magic items doh...

Re: Returning script ignored. Bug?
 

I even tested the situation with golem backed up by 40 PD and single teleporting empowered enemy priest. Golem always casts returning so probably the cause is not that easy.
Also, it seems to me that Returning casting should never be ignored at all.

Re: Returning script ignored. Bug?
 

Btw I am keen for Illwinter to look at it and deciede if it is a bug or not. But we cannot hold up the game for that.

The debug is:-

comp_castspell: No eval Returning due to gems

Quote:
Not enough vis for Returning

It could mean your golem + 10PD or so thought my single S mage was no threat to them and so your golem choose to not waste 2s gems casting returning. Such is the way of AI scripting. But no one knows, other than the developers.

Re: Returning script ignored. Bug?
 

I played with PD from 0 to 40 in my tests and that had no effect. Also, Endoperez said that vis means gems

Re: Returning script ignored. Bug?
 

Same thing, just as I suspected with the only difference that now KotD died. So the bug is stable in the sense that it depends on some conditions.
I will roll back the turn again now. Meglobob, please change your order and hopefully we'll be done with it at last.

Re: Returning script ignored. Bug?
 

Ok, I will cancel the teleport--->magic duel. No more rehosts after this!

Its not a instant kill you know, magic duel the golem has a 50/50 chance of surviving. I think its WAD. Your golem is not casting Return because its confident that he and the 10 PD you have in there are enough to defeat a lone mage. Thats just how dom3 works.

Re: Returning script ignored. Bug?
 

What does the debug log say when it does work?

How about in cases where he doesn't have the gems? Or other situations where gems won't be used due to weak opposition?

I'm pretty sure that message is specific to not having enough gems, not to not wanting to use them. Not 100% though.

Re: Returning script ignored. Bug?
 

I will run the test with debug options a bit later. Too tired now.
Also, it seems that returning spells should have a special status that never allows ignoring them if it is scripted.

Re: Returning script ignored. Bug?
 

Here're the scratches from successful return casting (testbed).
Quite expectable, I must say.

Re: Returning script ignored. Bug?
 

I have had the same bug occur.

Pretender + 2 seraphs. All kitted out; all with between 4-20 astral gems. All scripted to cast returning.

No one did.

Re: Returning script ignored. Bug?
 

I do not think it is a bug. Unless it is a new bug with 3.17. Before if you had a large titan or tartarian and gems and script it to cast returning, it will not do so if the ai thinks the attack is not threatening(and i think the ai measures this by hps etc).

So it DID used to be if you had a golem and 25 pd, it would not cast returning if a mage teleports in for a magic duel because the ai judges the mage no threat.

This is similar to scripting a mafe to cast fog warriors and there is 100 trolls in the army. a Wraithlord enters in artifact gear. kills your whole army. your mages never cast fog warriors. Why? it does not judge the single wraith lord a threat.

But you also do not want a foe to be able to make you waste your gems with a scout either, so that is the trade off.

Re: Returning script ignored. Bug?
 

Xietor, I once again say that I played with various builds and various teleporters.
I teleported (empowered) Dakini with 0 PD -> golem casts returning
I teleported (empowered) 40g priest with 40PD -> golem casts returning

I also played with artifacts and gems (also tried exactly the same build I had in the real situation) and result was ALWAYS the same. Also, as pointed out above, log says that golem doesn't have enough gems so it probably has nothing to do with AI's decisions.

Re: Returning script ignored. Bug?
 

When you tried the exact same build, did you just give your unit 28 D gems? Or did he gather them in battle (killing more than 30 units)?

Re: Returning script ignored. Bug?
 

As was noted before, if there was a gem overflow issue, that might have caused problems.

Re: Returning script ignored. Bug?
 

Edi
I didn't know that... What is meant by overflow, btw? How many extra games are counted as overflow?
vfb
Gathered with sickle a turn ago, of course :). I understood that such golem would be a tasty dish for an enemy and therefore scripted returning.

Re: Returning script ignored. Bug?
 

Try it with an 8 hp mage. If the 8 hp mage returns every time with no pd, then my point is proven.

Re: Returning script ignored. Bug?
 

Did you mean using 8hp mage instead of golem or instead of duel caster?
And where did you find that magic number 8? Not a secret? :)

Re: Returning script ignored. Bug?
 

I am playing pythium in Fallacy. my mages have 8 hps. They have never failed to successfully cast returning this game for me, except once.

When i put in a large pd and the attacking force was small.

Re: Returning script ignored. Bug?
 

It's still possible it's just an override, but largely based on the debug log, I think it's some kind of gem bug.
Isn't there a "Can use gems" flag of some kind? That's the AI deciding it's not worth wasting gems.
A test might be to try a weak (8hp if you wish) mage with and without the 28 death gems.

Re: Returning script ignored. Bug?
 

I've had the same problem, except that I had a seraph with a sickle and was attacked by shadow seers casting magic duel. This one is completely deterministic. I tried it in SP a dozen of times and the seraph never cast returning (always personal luck), when attacked by a group of 3-4 shadow seers. The same goes for golem, but not for a lowly guru mage, who did cast returning. I thought that it had something to do with the fact that shadow seers are stealthy, but maybe that's not true. I also tried it with gurus instead of shadow seers on the attacker side and both seraph and golem cast returning in this case, so I don't think it's related just to hit points. I tried it even with a scout empowered to 2S and again no returning from seraph or golem. I didn't look into the logs though.

My solution in MP was to always script phoenix pyre as the first spell for seraph, but my golems mostly became obsolete.

Anyway, I agree that this spell should never be overridden with another spell if it is scripted.

Re: Returning script ignored. Bug?
 

Well look at it from the Ai's perspective.

Why in the world would a serpah run from anything? Of course the Ai is not attuned to look at spells that instant kill.

Re: Returning script ignored. Bug?
 

Well, it's a nice way to get back into that domed capitol.

Re: Returning script ignored. Bug?
 

Xietor
When you tell mage to retreat he always retreats be it Seraph or Theurg and there's no AI perspective in this case: he retreats because you told him to. And absolutely the same behavior is expected from Returning spell because it makes no sense if it is unpredictable. I still think it is very wrong that returning can be overridden by anything else at all.
You may ask a hundred of players if they expect returning be different from retreat in the sense of scripting and I'm absolutely sure that more than 70% will say they should be treated in the same way.

Re: Returning script ignored. Bug?
 

83% of all people believe random statistics that they read.



Sorry, I had to. :p I would tend to agree, all Returning is, is magical Retreat.

Re: Returning script ignored. Bug?
 

Of course, it's only my estimation.
I created a poll to make it more realistic, btw :).

Re: Returning script ignored. Bug?
 

I am not disagreeing on whether he ought to retreat, I am just explaining why I think he is not retreating.

Re: Returning script ignored. Bug?
 

I understand that, of course, I just think that such behavior is not correct and not logical.
Also, the bug this thread was opened for still seems to have some other nature because I made the exactly the same tests and golem did cast returning.

Re: Returning script ignored. Bug?
 

a 9 hp mage.
a 77 pt seraph
a 77pt seraph
a 300 pt pretender.

No returns were cast.

Re: Returning script ignored. Bug?
 

I had this bug in DarkParadise with an Astral Monolith and Horrors. Basically, even a Horror is not enough to prevent a script override.

Re: Returning script ignored. Bug?
 

And that is the worst in this bug: it is unstable and unexpectable