Demanding Pretender.
 

Here's an idea I'm borrowing from Dwarf Fortress, that came to me while I was reading the old Yarnspinners 2 thread: Suppose there was a way, atleast in SP if not in MP, for your Pretender to make demands of your nation? A given Pretender might demand that you sacrifice a quantity of gems/bloodslaves, forge or sacrifice a magic item, research to a certain level in a particular school of magic, build or destroy a castle, temple, lab, or conquer a random province.

If you do, all is well, and you might even get an award-maybe your Pretender even grows more powerful-but until you do what the God wants you to, some bad thing or things happen. Your Dominion might shrink, your priests might get old more quickly, your Pretender might even become insane.

Maybe there would only be one demand per game, or maybe one per Pretender Title (tieing this to Titles would be fun), but it would give Pretenders a load of character.

It might be too much of a headache in most MP games, but even in an SP game, having a bizarre goal here and there, could make all the difference, in keeping interest up.

Re: Demanding Pretender.
 

Maybe if it was an option. It might make the difference between playing and just letting the save collect5 dust, but it could easily be a bad effect. Think about it - you're in a bad position, your Cyclops pretender barely surviving the horde of AI chaff, when suddenly he yells to the world "I want an Eye of Aiming!". Or Bow of Botulf. Or, hey, a Fever Fetish. And woe be unto those who do not do their god's bidding. Though it could be kind of cool, too, if tied to your god (ie, a god who's racked up his kills int where no one else has his level of experience might demand an Arena Tournament held in his honor, with the winner fighting the god).

Besides, demands in Dwarf Fortress are always annoying (or so I've heard). Your nobles might demand an Adamantine guitar and woe be to the soapmaker who refuses his request, regardless of the presence of Adamantine. Besides, if you hit Adamantine, there's no way it's going to be used for useless trinkets.

Re: Demanding Pretender.
 

Well seems quite some work to implement... so considering posts of the staff etc I wouldn't hold my breath for it.

Re: Demanding Pretender.
 

Reminds me of the quests in Warlords 1 and 2. Also, there was some board game I played with cards in which you had to fulfill the objective on the card to win, but no one knew what card the other players had, so sometimes players did seemingly strange things but only because they were following their own objectives. Maybe it was Risk? It would be interesting if there was a dominions victory point game but the "victory points" were tough objectives.

Example dominion objectives:
Build a castle in province X
Kill <number> units owned by player X
Forge X artifact
Summon X creatures (Tartarians, Tarrasques, etc.)
Obtain 999 <gem>
Obtain 100,000 gold

Actually, the game host could the list of objectives and silently distribute them to players at random. So the players would know what objectives people might be shooting for but not who was after which one. If you met the objective you would just have to tell the moderator that you won the game all "bingo" style.

It could be fun depending on how hard the objectives were, but it could also be a huge waste of effort if you played for months and someone met their objective without any fighting.

Re: Demanding Pretender.
 

Definitely not an auto-win...it wouldn't be thematic, in my opinion, but maybe the Pretender bestows a level of Holy magic on a random Commander, or the Pretender gains a powerful Second Shape, or forges a random artifact, or creates a new magic site.

Maybe it could be like a role-playing game, where the objectives are things your Hero or Heroes specifically have to perform, and as they do, they develope in power over time.

And it wouldn't even really have to be coded in. It could be part of a scenario, or even a MP where each nation gets a random objective, and then the host distributes the awards upon completion by modifying the in game map.

Re: Demanding Pretender.
 

I like the idea but it needs some tinkering.

How about a new nation. Temple checks produce local dominion but do *NOT* spread it to other provinces.

Instead, you get a series of tasks. There are always a few outstanding, when one is completed another takes it's place. Each task has a number of temple checks associated with it, completing the task grants that many temple checks at the location where it was completed.

Re: Demanding Pretender.
 

That sounds great, but I have no idea how that would work in practice.

Re: Demanding Pretender.
 

Sector's idea is the most appealing to me. It is also the least amount of work to implement. Risk does indeed have a method of play where you need not beat every faction into submission, but instead complete an objective which is half-way toward victory. It always ended a game before it got to that depressingly sad moment where the winner wanted to squash the last player who didn't have a chance.

I think it would be nice if every player was assigned 2 or 3 enemies. And victory was achieved by having your enemies eliminated. So long as everyone has a different enemy the game always remains interesting. For example:

In a four player game each player is given 2 enemies.
-Player 1 has 2 and 3
-Player 2 has 3 and 4
-Player 3 has 4 and 1
-Player 4 has 1 and 2
If player 1 is eliminated then player 3 and 4 only need one more opponent removed. This creates a dynamic game were people help other factions simple to buy the time they need to beat up another faction. If it so happens that two players need the same opponent to lose in order to win, then I suppose the one who kills him wins.

I think it would be more interesting then simply, "gang up on the scary guy".

Re: Demanding Pretender.
 

That would have an incredibly awesome "free for all cage match" feel to it if it were a 12 player map, and each player had 3 rivals to eliminate. Especially, I am sure there is an equation that would show the mathematical distribution - but if no one had reverse applicable lists. That is, you are not trying to kill any of the people who have you as a target.

I'm strongly considering setting up such a game now, I think it would provide incredible hilarity and tension.

Re: Demanding Pretender.
 

Big deal. I have ways to deal with demanding nobles in Dwarf Fortress

Re: Demanding Pretender.
 

Certain pretenders already have events happen that relate to their demands.

Fpr example, a Dragon Pretender sometime eats cblood slaves.

There is also a Hinnon pretender that sometimes eats your units and gains Blood magic.

Re: Demanding Pretender.
 

I prefer the old "pull this lever to release the untamed dragon into their fancy-schmancy living quarters" method. It requires one more dragon than your plan, but the results are much the same.

Re: Demanding Pretender.
 

Good idea, generally. At the very least it can be implemented with some more work for a game admin.

Re: Demanding Pretender.
 

But...

...surely Dom3 is a God Game, where you are your pretender. Yes, your avatar might occasionally die, but his incorporeal spirit would still be you, passing instructions to the faithful from wherever gods hang out when their body is destroyed.

This would be in contrast to a God Game like Dwarf Fortress or The Sims, where all the characters in it are individuals you are kicking around for the fun of it, without an actual "you" in game representation form.

Hence a pretender sending out demands doesn't really make sense, except in terms of you picking a pretender chassis that has certain needs.

Re: Demanding Pretender.
 

But even the God isn't really a game representation of you. You have no more control of him than of other units. He still only gets 5 orders in combat and may ignore them anyway.

It's just like a God game. Although the pretender is called a god, he's just another unit.

Re: Demanding Pretender.
 

It´s a god game in which you are an ubergod. There´s the answer about where the Dominions Pantokrator went: it´s you.


On a lighter, unrelated, and more suited to mods forum note: I really like the Tartarians which mimick existing pretenders in an undead form. I suppose there´s no way to add more? (IE: make a Moloch copy and make him summonable as a tartarian, add an undead version of other monsters, etc...

Re: Demanding Pretender.
 

I would absolutely love more Tartarians-I suggested to Kristoffer the idea of underwater Tartarians-and he seemed to like it-but I've never heard anything more about it. :(

I love spells, etc. that give you somewhat randomized units. That's one of the most fascinating aspects of the game, to me. I hope at some point that we'll get to add to those types of spells.

Re: Demanding Pretender.
 

"I always keep some Tartarians around to remind me the price of failure"- Kephrenotep, Ermorian lich&amateur pretender to godhood

Re: Demanding Pretender.
 

Excellent quote, Poopsi! :)))
And yes, more Tartarians themed on "living" pretenders would be better. Though, of course, unique beings (such as Allfather) and mortals/liches shouldn't be included. But Dragons probably should...

Re: Demanding Pretender.
 

Another idea on how this could work, perhaps each pretender would have a permanent sub-goal that would grant them a bonus. For instance the pretender titan based on Athena. Her sub-goal would be for the player to forge her The Aegis, seeing as it is her shield in Greek mythology. The bonus for owning that shield would be up to the discretion of the game host or based on the game. Something like +1 to all magic paths would be sufficiently powerful to warrant the player attempting to complete their sub-goal.

The bad part would be that every pretender choice would have to have a sub-goal and a bonus associated with them. But it might affect the player's nation design as some sub-goals would be obviously easier than others. Therefore you'd occasionally see less than optimal nations because when you factor the sub-goal in they become optimal. Just another layer of strategy to consider.

You would also have the benefit of knowing what a player's sub-goal is as soon as you see their pretender in the game. So if you're fighting Athena you will want to make The Aegis for yourself to deny them their sub-goal.

Probably too much work to implement, but fun to think about.

Re: Demanding Pretender.
 

Interesting idea HoneyBadger... however the change is too major to be seen within DOM_3. Keep it ready for when rumors of DOM_4 start buzzing which sounds like 5 years or more away.

Re: Demanding Pretender.
 

Well, it can be atleast simulated with Dom3, if one's willing to use the map edit feature.