Ship Sets: How Do You Do Them?
 

I'm curious about how ship sets are designed, because I'd like to maybe try my hand at it, to maybe contribute a couple of generic sets.

1) How are they done?

2) Are most of you designers professional artists?

3) Is it necessary to use expensive software?


I know very little about graphics software. But I sometimes read Computer Arts magazine, and I wonder if the freeware they feature sometimes on their CD is enough. In a recent issue they featured an interesting little freeware 3D sculpting program called Amphorium (spelling?).


I'm not interested in spending a lot of money and I don't have gobs of time; I just want to see how hard it would be for somebody like me to develop and contribute some ship designs.

While I currently make my living as a writer, in junior high school (LONG ago...) I used to doodle drawings of rockets and spaceships in my notebooks.

I know that doesn't mean I have any sort of talent for design, but how thrilling it would be to contribute a ship set for general use by the SEIV community.

On a similar note...how does one go about designing an AI? I don't mean modifying an existing one, I mean designing a unique AI for SEIV...

Thanks in advance for any advice...

[This message has been edited by Natsef-Amun (edited 31 August 2001).]

Re: Ship Sets: How Do You Do Them?
 

They are easy, but consum a lot of your time. The first thing to know is what are you going to do a ship set on?

Are you going to use exsisting picture, or make new ones?

To make new ones, you'll need to know 3dmax, Lightwave, Broyce, etc.

To make one based off of exsisting pictures is easy. Just gather the images you want to use, decide where you want them to go, IE Dreadnought, WeapPlatform etc.

You'll want all of your images BEFORE you start. Once you get going on it, it will take between 6 to 24 hours.

I started on the Starwolf Race Last night at 6 pm, and finished it about an hour ago. Total time working on it 8 hours. I have made 13 Ship sets, and they are a lot of fun to make, but tedious to do.

You'll need to know how to use PAINT, and you'll want to get ACDsee from www.download.com

I use ACDsee to crop and resize the images. I use Paint to mask them, and touch them up.

Gather your info, and then post what it is you want to do. I will then be more than happy to post a walk through. However, I have posted these before, and you can search for that if you wish.

------------------
"We've made too many compromises already, too many retreats! They invade our space and we fall back -- they assimilate entire worlds and we fall back! Not again! The line must be drawn here -- this far, no further! And I will make them pay for what they've done!" -- Captain Picard STNG
New Age Ship Yards

Re: Ship Sets: How Do You Do Them?
 

I want to make a shipset with some very simple 3d shapes. It could be done entirely with textured spheres and oblongs, but liquid effects and translucense would be nice as well. what would be ideal is to be able to plop down a high polygon sphere or two, and 'drag' extrusions from it.

any recomendations on a free 3d program that i can download that would make this fairly easy to do? or if not, what would let me plop together some textured spheres and oblongs?

------------------
"...the green, sticky spawn of the stars"
(with apologies to H.P.L.)

Re: Ship Sets: How Do You Do Them?
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Atrocities:
The first thing to know is what are you going to do a ship set on?

Are you going to use exsisting pictures, or make new ones?

To make new ones, you'll need to know 3dmax, Lightwave, Broyce, etc.

To make one based off of exsisting pictures is easy...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

3d max, Lightwave...Yikes! (*grabs his aching forehead*)

Doesnt using existing images raise copyright issues, though?

------------------
"Gentlemen, we have nearly a thousand ships waiting to be thrown into the fight at the proper moment to seize control of the Foundation. I say we should change that. I say, throw those thousand onto the board now--against the Mule."
-- Randu of Haven, from "Foundation and Empire," by Isaac Asimov

Re: Ship Sets: How Do You Do Them?
 

No, they do not raise Copy Right issues so long as you do not profit from them, and have the permission of the artist to use them.

You don't need the big gun software to combine exsisting ship sets. Just combine them, and name them what you need them to be.

IE Escort, Frigate, Destroyer, etc.

Just be sure that all files start with the same name. IE Myshipset_Mini_Escort Myshipset_Portrait_Escort Myshipset_Mini_Frigate Myshipset_Portrait_Frigate etc.

Re: Ship Sets: How Do You Do Them?
 

Puke,
this is a strange coincidence. I am currently downloading 3D Canvas. It's freeware, about 17megs. I'll let you know, if it's any good.

Rollo

[edit]typo

[This message has been edited by Rollo (edited 31 August 2001).]

Re: Ship Sets: How Do You Do Them?
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Puke:
I want to make a shipset with some very simple 3d shapes. It could be done entirely with textured spheres and oblongs......any recomendations on a free 3d program that i can download that would make this fairly easy to do?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm very new to 3d modeling, but the Amorphium 1.0 software I mentioned below may be what you want. It's freeware and came with the Aug 2001 issue of the UK magazine "Computer Arts."

In the US the magazine is sold in stores like Borders, Barnes & Noble, Comp USA, etc.

When you open it, the default workpiece is a sphere, and you can deform and shape and paint it all you want.

Playing around with it the other day made me think about using it to design shipsets.

But like I said, I really don't know much about this kind of thing...



------------------
"Gentlemen, we have nearly a thousand ships waiting to be thrown into the fight at the proper moment to seize control of the Foundation. I say we should change that. I say, throw those thousand onto the board now--against the Mule."
-- Randu of Haven, from "Foundation and Empire," by Isaac Asimov

Re: Ship Sets: How Do You Do Them?
 

Hi,
I played around with 3D Canvas a little. The program looks very good, but the smooth tool seems to be buggy http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon9.gif. I don't know, if it's just my computer or not. I reinstalled it and still got some real weird stuff, when smoothing.
Does anybody know, where I can get Amphorium for download? I did a search, but all the links were broken.

Rollo

Re: Ship Sets: How Do You Do Them?
 

I will post a guide to basic ship set making later today or early tomorrow. It is really easy to do, but you have to dedicate some time, and get ACDsee from www.download.com in order to follow the directions I will be giving. Until then, later.

------------------
"We've made too many compromises already, too many retreats! They invade our space and we fall back -- they assimilate entire worlds and we fall back! Not again! The line must be drawn here -- this far, no further! And I will make them pay for what they've done!" -- Captain Picard STNG
New Age Ship Yards

Re: Ship Sets: How Do You Do Them?
 

Thanks, Atrocties http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif.

Puke, I have been looking around for free- and shareware a little more and found something called ZBrush from Pixologic. I downloaded the demo and it looks really good. You might want to check that out. From what you desribed it could be pretty close what you were looking for. It's kind of a mix between 2d and 3d.

Rollo

Re: Ship Sets: How Do You Do Them?
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Rollo:
Does anybody know, where I can get Amphorium for download? I did a search, but all the links were broken.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

i found it at www.amorphium.com

------------------
"...the green, sticky spawn of the stars"
(with apologies to H.P.L.)

Re: Ship Sets: How Do You Do Them?
 

I can't help much with software or issues of methodology, but I have some notes on matters of style and design posted here.

------------------
SE4 Code:
L GdY $ Fr- C- Sd T!+ Sf-- Tcp-- A% M&gt;M+ MpD! RV Pw Fq+ Nd- Rp+ G-
/SE4 Code
Work out your code at http://www.sandman43.fsnet.co.uk/se4main.htm

[This message has been edited by dogscoff (edited 06 September 2001).]

Re: Ship Sets: How Do You Do Them?
 

I know nothing about 3d art but a friend of mind showed me a prog called ANIM8OR it is a tiny as and free program from www.anim8or.com
after a couple of hours useing this program I managed to make the ships i have attached (hopefully).

This program does purly what you want puke modify spheres and other polygons.

problem is it has no support for textures just straight colours.


------------------
CyC
L+++ GdY $!+ Fr+ C--- S* T!- Sf++ Tcp++ A? M++ MpM RV Pw+ Fq++ Nd+++++ Rp++ G

Re: Ship Sets: How Do You Do Them?
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Puke:
i found it at www.amorphium.com

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks Puke, I had tried that already, but the page didn't load correctly. I'll try it again later.

Thanks Cyc, I'll try ANIM8OR. That looks pretty good.

Rollo

Re: Ship Sets: How Do You Do Them?
 

anim8or is a very small and easy to use program. a big thums up for doing basic design stuffs. I think that amorphium is definitly the nicer program, even with a nicer interface it has a slightly higher learning curve. of course, none of these hold a candle to the real professional packages, but they are certainly good enough for making any kind of shipset that you might imagine.

the down side is that amorphium is a trialware program, and you have to buy it eventually. so unless you are planning on doing alot of 3d work (and cant budget for the real big boys toys) then i would stick with the anim8or.

Re: Ship Sets: How Do You Do Them?
 

Those of you who don't mind doing the work mostly in your mind and by hand may wish to check out POVRay as well. Personally, I enjoy POVRay when I dabble in 3d modeling... but then, I also code my web pages by hand. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

LL

Re: Ship Sets: How Do You Do Them?
 

What's wrong with good old fashiond 2D pixel work? Or draw ships on paper, scan them in and thn touch them up in a 2D package.

*Dogscoff goes all Old Skool.

------------------
SE4 Code:
L GdY $ Fr- C- Sd T!+ Sf-- Tcp-- A% M&gt;M+ MpD! RV Pw Fq+ Nd- Rp+ G-
/SE4 Code
Work out your code at http://www.sandman43.fsnet.co.uk/se4main.htm

Re: Ship Sets: How Do You Do Them?
 

bump

Re: Ship Sets: How Do You Do Them?
 

I like DoGA CGA (L3 is the latest.) It uses a parts metaphor where you pick pre-generated models from a "parts bin." You can then scale, rotate, and texture them as desired. It is very easy to use and specifically geared towards mecha like spacecraft.

Check out http://www.doga.co.jp/english for more info.

Oh yeah, it's free although you can register it in order to make AVIs or to just support the team.
--
TAZ

Re: Ship Sets: How Do You Do Them?
 

For those with plenty of bandwidth, but hate to surf Japanese sites, here are the direct links to the latest Version of DoGA CGA L3. [The program is in English, even if the help file isn't.]

http://www.doga.co.jp/ptdoga/archive...0/dl3_108a.exe (25 megs) http://www.doga.co.jp/ptdoga/archive...0/dl3_108b.dlx (30 megs)

More 360 degree backgrounds...

http://www.doga.co.jp/ptdoga/archive...0/dlbg_108.exe (15 megs)

More character parts... (in LZH format, I have a zipped Version somewhere)

http://www.excite.co.jp/world/url/body?wb_url=http%3A%2F%2Fdoga. jp%2F%7Ekama%2FNewParts%2F&wb_lp=JAEN&wb_dis=2 (2 megs)

L3 has a tons of enhancements to L2, especially in the texture creation
department. Things like decals are a lot easier to add. If you know
your way around 3D models, there is an object convertor that will turn
DXF files into SUF format and allow you to apply texture coordinates.
--
TAZ

[This message has been edited by zircher (edited 01 October 2001).]

Re: Ship Sets: How Do You Do Them?
 

I have completed my basic tutorial on ship set compiling, and have placed the 26 page document in the downloads section (data modifications) forum for any one who wishes to view it.

It is in WORD 97 format. Sorry, I do not have any other word processor program that I know as well as Word 97.

Any ways, I hope it will be usefull to people, and if if at all possible, I would like to know if it is good enough to be included with the other fan files for the new CD burn.

Download it here.

------------------
New Age Ship Yards

"We've made too many compromises already, too many retreats! They invade our space and we fall back -- they assimilate entire worlds and we fall back! Not again! The line must be drawn here -- this far, no further! And I will make them pay for what they've done!" -- Captain Picard STNG

Borg Breen Species 8472 Cardassian Dominion STNG Ferengi Klingon Romulan
Trek Movie era TOS Illuminati Starwolf

Re: Ship Sets: How Do You Do Them?
 

What is the best (and hopefully easy to learn and use) 3d modeling program? Oh yeah and something thats not too expensive http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ 03 December 2001: Message edited by: chewy027 ]</p>

Re: Ship Sets: How Do You Do Them?
 

Chewy: you're question has already been answered.. check a little lower in the thread. Doga L3. Reasonably easy to use and free.

EDIT: Atrocities, Word97 should allow you to save as a plain text file if you want..

Phoenix-D

[ 03 December 2001: Message edited by: Phoenix-D ]</p>

Re: Ship Sets: How Do You Do Them?
 

Well phoenix i already have L3 and I like it a lot, but the designs seem to be limited to the shapes it provides. I guess I am looking for something a little more detailed and with more features then L3.

Re: Ship Sets: How Do You Do Them?
 

Add more parts, L3 has an object convertor so you can import DXF files. When I need custom organic parts or a unique shape, I just fire up a freebie patch editor like sPatch or HamaPatch.

There's also a new human and mecha library. They're great (free) add-ons to DoGA L2 or L3.

Detail is relative, add more parts and zoom back. I've seen some wickedly detailed models built in DoGA. DoGA Battle is an irregularly run just for fun contest that Team DoGA hosts.
http://www.doga.co.jp/english/events...tle/index.html

BTW, these are all L2 models and do not take advantage of L3 features like bump mapping, glow masks, or transparencies.
--
TAZ

[ 03 December 2001: Message edited by: zircher ]</p>

Re: Ship Sets: How Do You Do Them?
 

where is the new library of parts? BTW some of those ships were pretty cool http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Ship Sets: How Do You Do Them?
 

Where can I download doga l3, the link doesn't seem to be working.

Re: Ship Sets: How Do You Do Them?
 

The answer to all those questions is to visit the English site, go to the fourm and then start working backwards since I've plosted all those links in the past. If you have problems with LZH/LHA files (it's not a default compression scheme for WinZip), I converted them to ZIP files. But, they're pretty hefty as e-mail attachments (humans are 2 megs, and mecha is 4 megs.)
--
TAZ

Re: Ship Sets: How Do You Do Them?
 

I found it on C-net's download.com

Re: Ship Sets: How Do You Do Them?
 

After you get it downloaded and installed, check out what Version it is. There are patches mentioned in the forum that should take you up to 2001_08_10b.
--
TAZ

[Heh, transposed the Version numbers. Fixed.]

[ 04 December 2001: Message edited by: zircher ]</p>