OT: Bruce Geryk's other choice
 

Hello everyone, it's been some time since I played Dominions, for a number of reasons, but it and the community still have a fond place in my heart.

I shamelessly plugged Dominions over at the GC2 forums after the Brad and the other fine people at Stardock included press releases of the launch of Dominions3 and posted quite prominent links to Shrapnel on their site. Now, in a sort of crypto-plug, I'd like to ask your advice about something which Dominions vet Bruce Geryk loved,

http://www.gamespot.com/pc/strategy/...er/review.html

a tiny but excellent niche game from a niche designer which came out 5 years ago. In many ways, I think it can be compared favorably to the Dominions series, and might fill a niche here. I would like your opinion, since I think that game could be truly great, but wonder how it goes with the pure TBS crowd.

In many ways, Star Chamber is like Dominions:
- Ostentatious lack of investment in flashy graphics and sound
- Steep learning curve
- Deep strategic choices and high levels of variability between games of identical setup
- Turns are submitted to the server and resolved simultaneously
- Hence great strategic planning, but no immediate tactical control
- Both games excel at, or, perhaps, were "made for" multiplayer

The differences are equally clear:
- Dom's pure TBS vs. SC's TBS/TCG hybrid
- Dom's Fantasy setting vs. SC's space setting
- Dom games can take weeks to complete, SC matches are usually over in less than an hour

In many other aspects, a direct comparison of similarities or differences fails to hold up. I'd be keen on your opinion. One could say that the way that the magic system in Dominions is much like the tech system in SC: one finds and harvests various magic resources in various paths (gems, slaves) in Dominions much like the way that one harvests' various tech paths (cyber, order, life, etc.) in SC, and that the magic spells are cast by having access to research in the correct areas (plus, on occasion, expending gems correspondingly), while in SC, "spells" are cast by playing cards in the right tech paths. Also, Dominions can appear deceptively easy, yet we all know how difficult it is to be good. I think this is even more true of SC; it appears very easy, but yet it seems very difficult to master. Particularly because the way that some "spells" work: in SC, complexity and variability come not in the overwhelming number of different entities and effects which one can conjur, but rather in the exceedingly subtle way these effects are combined with very tricky conditions under which the effects may or may not take place. The aspect of "Dominion" is much like the aspect of "Influence" on the SC map, and offers an exciting twist to the concept of controlling areas. Additionally, SC has various winning conditions (military, political, cultural), each of which can be sneakily achieved with enough guile. I suppose that "guile" sums up a fairly basic skill required to play both SC and Dominions well.

A lot has happened to SC since Geryk wrote his review 5 years ago. It has developed over the course of 6 expansion sets, and has developed for the better.

Has anyone ever heard of this game?
Has anyone ever tried it?
It's so obviously different from Dominions that I think it isn't much in the way of disjunctive competition, but imagine that it could be quite something of a conjunctive enhancement for many here. I'd be keen to know what you think.

Re: OT: Bruce Geryk's other choice
 

:) I've been playing SC for many years and I would guess a lot of dominions player would enjoy it, but it's hard to recommend spending money on it, because the game is practically dead. I would still adivise anyone to check it out because it is a really unique game and it can be really intense with two evenly matched opponents.
You can download a demo version where you can play unlimited games with a fixed deck of cards, that should give you an idea of what its about. If you like it, most vets can give anyone a full set of commons(opposed to uncommon or rare cards) to play with (if you need cards you can PM me as well). There used to be a really great, but small community always willing to help out new players. After Sony bought the game they brought out a few expansions in quick succession and then left it to die, which is real shame because this is one of the greatest games of all time. You should check it out while it's still there!

Re: OT: Bruce Geryk's other choice
 

Hey thanks m_m for the feedback. But it's a looong way from being dead. It's waaaaay over there in that tiny niche, but it's not dead! What is your SC handle btw?

Re: OT: Bruce Geryk's other choice
 

My handle is mr_miagi I log in from time to time just to check if the Servers are still alive ;-). After talking about it here I think i'll play a game or two tonight.

Re: OT: Bruce Geryk's other choice
 

This thread inspired me to check out the game, it really is is very well done. Last weekend I got registered so if anyone wants to play a game or two let me know.

Re: OT: Bruce Geryk's other choice
 

Yeah, I registered and bought some cards as well. Seems like a nice little community and a cool game.

Re: OT: Bruce Geryk's other choice
 

Hey, great, thanks guys. Great to hear that some of the critical eyes here have taken a look and improved.

specifically @quantum: You probably don't remember me, but we had a couple of nice matches when I was still fairly newb-ish to Dom2. You also helped me finish my Oglala mod. I am "onomastikon" in the SC community, feel free to chat me up for some matches if you like. Would be great to see you there. What is your SC moniker?

Re: OT: Bruce Geryk's other choice
 

As a side note, I found out about Dom 3's existence as a result of the game's free press on the Gal civ forums. I did not buy the game until recently though, when in between Total-War releases I thought to myself "I wonder whatever happened to that turn-based fantasy game from a couple of years ago... I bet it's dropped in price, and has an expansion by now!". Of course, the price is still at a 2006 rate, but after checking out a couple of reviews and "let's Play" threads on something-Awful I concluded that this would be a quite addictive game for me, and therefore worth the price. I also saw that the Dev's added true content to their patches, which means that you practically get the "expansion" for free. Finally, I just love long convoluted game manuals...
The point of this post is that I have bought games based upon the publicity they get in the forums I frequent, so if you know a deserving game, let people know without being spammy...

Re: OT: Bruce Geryk's other choice
 

My star chamber nick is quantummechani. So far I've only managed to get in a couple games per week, but I look forward to playing a game if we run into each other.

Re: OT: Bruce Geryk's other choice
 

Just wanted to bump this up and mention I've been playing this game pretty regularly. I think it's got a decent similarity of the gameplay elements of dominions which makes me think there'll be a large overlap in appeal. You "design" your race, try to figure out clever combos and strengths of your race, then once the game starts there's a pretty deep strategy of trying to outmaneuver your opponent and exploit his weaknesses. Plus, you can get a full game in in about 30 minutes, so it's convenient for when you're waiting for your next dom turn. ;) There's even a community run "Newb Open" where they post challenges for new players who can win uncommon cards (common cards are freely given by the community to anybody who needs them). Anyway, $10 buys a lot of game (theres also a free demo to check out), so if anybody wanders over there drop me a line and I can help you flesh out your common cards.

Re: OT: Bruce Geryk's other choice
 

this looks interesting, but I haven't been able to track down the Mac version, even though I've read that there is one.

Anyone know where I can pick up a Mac demo?

Re: OT: Bruce Geryk's other choice
 

Funny, I ran across the game on a website today and thought that it looked interesting just from the thumbnail screenshots. The card thing killed it for me, though, given the year of release it seems to me that it was trying to cash in on the popularity of Trading Card Games prevalent in the big boom of them during that time.

Re: OT: Bruce Geryk's other choice
 

Here is "a" Mac Demo, probably horribly out of date:

http://www.macgamefiles.com/detail.php?item=19036

Re: OT: Bruce Geryk's other choice
 

I don't run a mac, but I know that at least one long-time player of SC does. I think his handle is mattness, if you register on the SC boards (http://forums.station.sony.com/strat...w.m?forum_id=3) you could PM him or simply post asking for help. You'll probably get a reply within 24 hours.
It's a niche game and its current publisher, Sony Online, does nothing to help get it noticed, so I don't know where to find the mac software.

I've been playing this game for 6 months now, and I still feel that I'm a newbie. While the game is easier to learn than Dominions is, I have found it surprisingly harder to get good at. It is hard to describe why; I think it has something to do with the fact that there are 3 truly distinct victory conditions and with the unique combination of the possibilities, contingencies and interconnections between spells (card play) and the map; it really *is* a hybrid boardgame / card game, and the board game by no means comes up short. In Dominions, you have billions and billions of possible things to do; in SC, the sheer number of entities and their possible actions are smaller, but it's the way that these entities interact with their environment (the "board") that make the possibilities at times surprising. I think that's what I like most about this game: I still get surprised every game. In Dominions, I feel like the leader of a huge army, and careful planning will normally keep me on the track I want to go on; Dominions does a perfect job of giving me command of huge armies with boundless amounts of "stuff" to do with them. Yet I am rarely surprised; at least, much less so than in SC. In Dominions, I find the end-game to be, at times, while not necessarily tedious, than at least often less than exciting or surprising, or at least not nail-biting. In SC, at least half the games involve great surprises, and that is also because the 3 victory conditions really are distinct -- and unlike games such as Civilization, it is hard to see far ahead who is going for what and when they can reach their goal. The good thing which can be said about this is that new players can ask veterans to handicap themselves by playing with extremely limited amounts and power of spells (cards in hand); I still get beaten regularly.

Re: OT: Bruce Geryk's other choice
 

I played Star Chamber a couple years ago. 02/2006 according to a search of my gmail account. Also revealed my login and password. Gonna have to fire this up and have another go.

I didn't play back then for very long. Even in '06 it was hard to consistently find an even match except at prime time. And I lost quite often. It was a really good game though.

Re: OT: Bruce Geryk's other choice
 

I got a request to put the link to the Star Chamber Mac client....

http://homepage.mac.com/mattness/starchamber/

there it is.

Good luck and see you in the Mezz.
Cheers
sox