Gem Valley - a SP MA mod
 

New Mod - Gem Valley

9/11/08 Version 1.1 Added unleadership to all heroes.
9/16/08 Ver 1.11 - Changed slots Auger. modified start site
9/20/08 Ver. 1.2 - tweaked PD, cleaned up some spries
10/13/08 - some units altered for balance. 2 new gem mines added

Disclaimer: This mod probably is not balanced for MP. I am not sure that it is even balanced for SP. I am positive that Dom3 purists will not like it.

Credits: I want to thank Amos and Sombre who granted permission to borrow sprites to produce this mod. It is possible that sprites have been borrowed from others. If so, I will correct this unintentional omission for credit. These generous benefactors are otherwise free from blame for this mod.


Gem Valley:

In the beginning, the world was devoid of magic. The Prime Force, seeking to correct this deficiency, created the source of Mana and hid the source in the most inaccessible mountain valley in the world. Over the long ages the source spread its influence and distributed gems and Mana to the four corners of the world. During this early period of history, magic was pure and untainted by the evil blood magic of the Dark One.

But nothing good lasts forever. The Dark One finally discovered this world of goodness and pure magic, and desired to have it for his own. The lure of the easy power of blood magic soon brought many converts to the Dark Ones cause. A global war developed and the supporters of good battled the forces of tainted blood magic in every land for uncountable generations. The war finally ground to an end, unresolved, both sides exhausted and unable to continue any further. Thus ended the First Age of the world.

During the Second Age of the world, the Mana source became self aware, a by-product of its proximity to immeasurable Mana, and became The Source, ever so slowly gaining power and developing awareness. Eventually the fetid taste of the blood magic reached the isolated Gem valley and The Source was appalled. Immobile and powerless to battle the blood magic itself, The Source sent out a call summoning the users of pure magic to Gem Valley. Many answered the call; few successfully overcame the obstacles in the path. The descendents of these few survivors are the sole present day inhabitants of Gem Valley. A tribe of dwarves also answered the call. Reluctant to reside in the open air of Gem valley, these dwarves pledged to maintain the Mana channels deep beneath the earth to ensure a ready supply of Mana and gems to the mages of the world. These few inhabitants prospered and prepared for the next war.

Time beyond measure passed. The Powers of The Source had increased to the point where it was capable of creating a powerful physical manifestation of itself. The mages, the only humans in Gem Valley, also waxed in power, freed from the constraints of daily labor by virtuous demons drawn to the power of the Source and subsequently modified by The Source itself. The loyal tribe of dwarves grew in stature, an alteration attributed to their constant exposure to the Mana.

One day The Source announced to its loyal adherents, “Go forth in my name and rid the world of the blood.”


Gem Valley is a MA mod with some unique characteristics. There are only three weak demon units available to recruit. All commanders are mages and most are very powerful. However, there is a wild aspect that accompanies this power. And as the name of the mod implies, gems can be had in quantity. All forgeable items are also available to the nation.

The nation is a magical, research powerhouse. Early expansion is painfully slow, but with luck, by the middle game the nation should be able to expand rapidly. Invest in good PD to hold back the foe until research, gems and powerful summons can cleanse the world of the taint.

Re: Gem Valley - a SP MA mod
 

Re: Gem Valley - a SP MA mod
 

This is the full image you want to link. Right-click => Show image, then copy the URL. Don't trust what the site tells you, it only serves a thumbnail :)
http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/05d6d92336.jpg

Re: Gem Valley - a SP MA mod
 

Well thank you very much.

How did you do that?

Re: Gem Valley - a SP MA mod
 

Ver.1.2

Tweaked PD, cleaned up some sprites.

Re: Gem Valley - a SP MA mod
 

Gem Valley also has the first known instance of linked magic boosts in a mod. The sorcery mages use the linked boosts.

Re: Gem Valley - a SP MA mod
 

Ver 1.3. Some changes for balance. Two additional gem mines added.

Re: Gem Valley - a SP MA mod
 

I'm trying this out and it seems quite powerful. I didn't find expansion all that slow, with every merc offered I was taking 1/round and then added another fortress from which I built other forces. When the dust cleared I was in the middle of the pack on size.

Some questions:

1) The gem units have movement yet can't be moved other than by teleportation (or possibly the gate stone but I haven't tried that--it's in the hands of a raider.) This lack of movement is annoying as it means a ton of commanders in the capital. Is this deliberate or a bug?

2) Something is very strange with my upkeep. At this point most of my army consists of summons--mostly GORed Seraphs and Abominations. In recruitables I have only about 40 gem mines and a few odds and ends (most of which is captured enemies.) I've got about 180 gem mines and the seraphs, abominations and a bunch of royalty. How am I spending 20k on upkeep? I don't see even 2k worth!

3) What are the differences between the gem mines?

Re: Gem Valley - a SP MA mod
 

1. The lack of movement of the gem mines and gem fountains is by design. They are immoble entities, although the mines do teleport because of the astral paths. Everything in the game will teleport if it has enough astral.

2. I have no idea why your upkeep is so high. It can't be the gem mines, with a gc of 250 each. The 2 summons you cite are also zero gold. I have not encountered that problem. The most likely possibility can be attributed to the fact that the mod incorporates the "Better Independents Mod" with unit costs of 2000 gold. Have you seduced some non magic independent commanders? Or have you had a milita event or other unit generating event?



3. There are 3 gems mines to balance gem generation of the mines. Each mine is limited to generating 5 types of gems, a game limition, not mine. So to get an even balance of all 7 gem types, all 3 mines, in total generate 15 gem types. Thus a complete set of all 3 mines will generate two of each gem type with the extra being a pearl. The 1.0 version had one mine and it was scripted to generate all 7 gems, but the game limited it to only 5 types. The only way I could figure out how to evenly circumvent that limitation was the 3 mine solution. I have always meant to include the types in the descriptions, but haven't gotten around to it. Just click on each mine after a turn and you will see which gems each produces.

The nation is not feeble. I am not a good enough player to play a feeble nation with any success. I made the nation so that I could cast every spell and forge every item, if the wild magic distributes paths usefully (doesn't always happen). But I don't recruit mercs, so that limits me in the early game. But once you research up and have about 5 castles, the nation becomes a lot of fun to play (IMHO).

It would probably get overwhelmed early in MP also. Unless you use PD 20+ and have some offensive research completed.

Re: Gem Valley - a SP MA mod
 

Not quite--I figured it out. It's not indie commanders, it's some random event monsters that got enslaved.

It's gone easier than Hinnom. Next game I'll try without the mercs. I haven't even needed the magic on the commanders. This game is easy enough I'm trying to win while basically at peace. I have one neighbor that's hitting me and I'm ignoring, beyond that I'm taking anything lost to monsters and using ghost riders to cause provinces to be lost. Once it's down to castles only I'll see if I can dream up anything else.

Probably, although the only way to actually destroy it would be a dominion kill.

Re: Gem Valley - a SP MA mod
 

Glad you figured out the upkeep. That is an inherent side effect of the BI mod. I tried the version with low gold and high resources, but it appeared to me that the computer had lower forces and I suspected that it was trying to recruit the units anyway. Didn't try it long, the gold cost version worked well, although it does pose some issues with upkeep on occasion. Easy enough to deal with and just an additional minor handicap.

I only play the mod for the magic. I love forging and magic. Probably explains why I am such a crappy player.

Have you tried the "Improved Computer Opponents" Mod? There is one for MA and one for EA. Each one toughens up 6 AI nations significently. The mod restricts the number of recruits available using only the best of each nation, eliminates capitol only restrictions and gives the computer a much better starting army. The AI appears smarter because of restricted choices.

Re: Gem Valley - a SP MA mod
 

Any idea why I'm utterly winning the dominion war? 8 temples and IIRC 6 dominion, yet my dominion is probably 50% of the total dominion in the whole game with a dozen enemies still left. I just got my third dominion kill.

Re: Gem Valley - a SP MA mod
 

It is the mines. They have the prophet ability.

Re: Gem Valley - a SP MA mod
 

Powerful!

Re: Gem Valley - a SP MA mod
 

Yes they are. I have never amassed that many mines myself in 15 to 20 games. I'm usually recruiting mages to lead the cheap demon hordes for expansion and to summon what I consider the primary army, the Giant dwarves. I guess I am kind of a rut player.

Now I know why they have a lot of people as play testers.

I guess I'll have to tone down the prophet ability.

Re: Gem Valley - a SP MA mod
 

I just tried another game. I went against Mighty AI's. The *ONLY* commanders I recruited was gem mines. For most of the first year I also recruited as many speed demons as I had resources for. It didn't take long before I could summon Wraith Lords, I used them for the rest of my expansion--the gem mines were pushing my dominion out fast enough that I was always in friendly dominion so it didn't matter if they died.

When I bumped into my neighbor I put very heavy PD into the border and pretty soon I had my entire border at PD 125. I put wizard's towers on all the spots that would produce maximum resources and kept recruiting gem mines.

Once the expansion was over I started putting some mines on abomination summoning although it never really mattered as I never went to war--one AI did attack but he couldn't get through the PD, I never actually did anything. Research was entirely done in the fall of year 5.

I was at only dominion 4 but got two dominion kills and my dominion was continuing to expand, the outcome was obvious. My only temples were where I needed them for recruitment.

I'm going to try it again against Impossible AI's.

Re: Gem Valley - a SP MA mod
 

Followup: Game against impossible AI's.

This time I played it slightly differently, I didn't build any fortresses, although I did capture some. Dominion 10. Strangely enough for a magic nation, Drain 3. That destroys the research from fountains but hardly puts a dent in what mines turn out. Until I was facing the final AI I never had more than 30PD on the borders--I was simply expanding too fast to afford any more than that.

Again, nothing forged, no globals.

Again, I went for summons and used wraith lords to conquer lands once I had them. Once I was at abominations I went for astral fountains and soon I had 8 mines turning out a steady stream of them. At the end I had an astral income of 2000/turn.

Again, I never went to war but the AI did. I did launch one remote attack--a huge army was going for the same unowned castle I was seiging and I dropped 8 flames from the sky on it.

Dominion kills in : 2, 3, 4, 4, 5 and the start of 7. The other AI's were eliminated by each other. I completed research in summer of 6. I didn't actually play the game past the start of year 6, I was simply hitting end turn. With more careful play and actually attacking I think I could have won this early in 6. Had that last AI not been Ashod I think I could have won it in late 5.


This mod is *WAY* too powerful. The only way I've ever won against impossibles before is with LA Ermor.

Re: Gem Valley - a SP MA mod
 

Loren,

You are 100% correct. Even I win against impossible. :doh:

I know what needs to be altered. It will take me about a week or so, life is beating down pretty hard presently.:banghead:banghead

I've gotten a unique brain fart for the nerf. I will keep this version intact for duffers like myself, and I will issue a balanced version for the general population. :rock:

Re: Gem Valley - a SP MA mod
 

Having just tried this out today, I think there are a few things I'd change (for a balanced version) that weren't really mentioned.

1. Gem mines are too cheap, gold wise. And while I can imagine them being thought of as sacred, I don't think the miners would be considered sacred. I think they should cost more on the order of 500 gold and be non-sacred.
2. Gem mines are also too powerful, magically. I'm not entirely sure it makes sense for a mine to be able to cast spells at all, really. I would seriously consider removing all magic paths from the gem mines (and probably the research as well).
3. I would also make gem mines immobile, it seems strange to me that a mine can move around at will.
4. Producing 8 gems a turn for each mine also is excessive. I think more than one gem of each type it produces at once is probably excessive. You should probably also reduce the amount of gem crossover per mine. For example, have one mine make 1f 1e 1a, another make 1w 1d 1n, and the other make 3-6 astral. Or perhaps one for elemental gems and one for sorcery.
5. Were you aware that the seductresses are something like 600 years into old age? That's... different.
6. The giant dwarf summons are too cheap for what you get. They should probably be at least 30 gems per summon, maybe as many as 40.
7. The Auger weapons are insane. Did you make the aoe for the fire attack more than one square? Because it seems when they attack that they hit everything around them on all sides, and I wouldn't think it would do that normally.
8. Likewise with gem mines, gem fountains should probably lose research, mobility, spell paths, and should probably have their income lessened. Halving the income would probably reasonably suffice. As it is, gem fountains and mines are less of an investment and more of an insane explosion of magical power.
9. It probably also isn't terribly fair having the 50% enhancement spell discount as it makes it just too easy to dominate globals and ramp up gem production.
10. Ok, onto the PD. There is too much of it, especially the giant dwarves. Those need to be reduced to probably a quarter their current number. The demons can be reduced by less. Maybe not at all if all or most of the other changes I mentioned are implemented.
11. I also noticed a few units with blood magic. One of them was a recruitable commander which I don't recall the name of and the other was an earth fountain. There might possibly have been more but I wasn't looking that closely. Anyway, thematically speaking I'm pretty sure those blood paths are supposed to not exist.

The paths on the gem mines being axed is very important because there honestly is really no reason to ever recruit any other commander at the moment.

I wanted to do a bulleted list but couldn't figure out how. Maybe I should have gone with hyphens.

Re: Gem Valley - a SP MA mod
 

Thank you very much. I have started the revisions and my plans are identical to yours. All magic, gem production and research has been curtailed significently. The amount of dwarves per summoning has been reduced instead of raising the cost. The dwarves have also had stat reductions.

PD is reduced. It will still be strong, but it is not as insane as it is.

Your comments about the blood magic is a mystery. I haven't seen any blood magic myself. I'll look into the earth fountain. What other unit has it?

As for the start sites, I inadvertantly included my test version with the enchanting and construction bonuses as start sites. OOPS. They are not intended to be part of the mod.

I'll look at the auger weapon. It was intended to be powerful, but your comments make me think.

Re: Gem Valley - a SP MA mod
 

The first sort of gem mine. If they don't have blood magic for you it may be because I accidentally left another mod enabled before I started the game, and I'm pretty sure there were conflicts (one of the nations was ogre kingdoms, and at one point they had a small army of tank demons).

Re: Gem Valley - a SP MA mod
 

I suspect that you have correctly identified the issue.

Re: Gem Valley - a SP MA mod
 

I think the mana spirits personified are a bit too strong also. The first one I summoned, I scripted to cast soul vortex and attack, and is basically invulnerable to armies. That's too strong for a level 8 spell and 24 gems. And it seems to #onebattlespell invulnerability? All you really need are some mr-increasing items and resistances and you have a very strong sc.

Note that mine is unequippped.

Re: Gem Valley - a SP MA mod
 

Thanks. I'll do something. I've lost quite a few when they solo without equipment, but your comments on the cost are undoubtedly accurate. I'll match cost to some other summons.

I admit to being influenced by Tartarians in summoning costs. It is probably because their cost is not correct that I lean to the cheap side on summons.

Re: Gem Valley - a SP MA mod
 

Well, with tartarians the base cost to summon one is 10 gems. Then you generally have to GoR them for 20 more gems. This gets you a commander that probably has an affliction, is undead (giving it an additional weakness), and is insane. I believe some of them don't have all slots also. I would say that a naked mana spirit is quite a bit more useful than a naked tartarian. Then you also have to have either the chalice to heal them, gift of health, or a commander with healing. The chalice costs 40 gems, gift of health costs 50 to cast at minimum, and the faerie court spell costs 40 gems (while also being the least efficient method) if you don't have access to recruitable healers.

I could certainly see you losing some mana spirits unequipped, but even unequipped it is looking in my game like it would require mage power to bring one down. I am fighting vanheim at the moment, and I have a second mana spirit that doesn't have enough death magic to cast soul vortex naturally so I'm just using it on attack orders. It isn't invulnerable like the other one, but as a thug it's amazing.

Re: Gem Valley - a SP MA mod
 

I'd think a better point of reference for costs would be one of the elemental royalty.

At 50 gems, they have 4 or 5 levels of magic and are SCable with a further 20+ gems of equipment. They don't have full slots, and you can only summon limited numbers of them - both factors which I think would reduce the gem cost of the summon a little.

Since you can get unlimited numbers of spirits, you don't need to equip them to use them as SCs and they have a lot of magic, I guess the cost should be over 50 gems.

I guess they probably aren't seraph-level, so a cost under 100 would be sensible. 60-70 gems, perhaps?

Re: Gem Valley - a SP MA mod
 

Death magic? The mana spirit only has 2E. Another mixed mod issue??

Re: Gem Valley - a SP MA mod
 

I was about to ask that of you, actually. I'm guessing it's likely as mine are getting 2e, 2d, and a random that seems to be 100% db. This is kind of annoying, wish I'd been paying more attention to that before I started the game.

Re: Gem Valley - a SP MA mod
 

That's okay. Mine also has big time priest, but that is being reduced also. I just wanted to see what 5H did.

Re: Gem Valley - a SP MA mod
 

Somewhere there is utility that fixes the unit number problems. I have not used it myself yet.

In the past I would pore through each mod and manually correct conflicts. I recorded all unit/weapon/etc numbers on the back of a Chinese take out menu (it's great to be organized), but my larger half broke her computer, used mine and decided to clean my office area so she could easier break my computer. Whoops, there goes the "Official" mod number log, and the phone number of my favorite take out restaurant.

As they say "Stuff happens".

Re: Gem Valley - a SP MA mod
 

Heh.

I'm familiar with llamabeast's program, and it is quite useful. Once some mods I'm working on right now get sorted out I'm probably going to use it to ensure there are no errors. But unfortunately I'm pretty sure it wouldn't fix the current problem. If the way it sorted out the Warhammerama game is any indication, it works by taking several mods and combining them into a single multi-mod. It doesn't actually change the base mods.

Re: Gem Valley - a SP MA mod
 

Just out of curiosity... have you ever had your mana spirits run away on you when it doesn't seem like they should? I'm getting the impression that mine were fearing themselves with their swords of vengeance, as in battle their morale would often drop for no reason I could see. Probably another cb issue, but I figure it couldn't hurt to bring it up.

Re: Gem Valley - a SP MA mod
 

rdonj,
It may have happened once. I did have one instance that the mana spirit fled but I never figured it out and didn't spend too much time on it because it was a single incident.