Transport for U.S. Patriot Units.
 

Been playing since the SP days. Glad when WinSPMBT came out (and WinSPWW2.) Great Job guys! To my question, maybe I'm missing something but I can't seem to find any transport units to move my U.S. Patriot units. I know the game supports this as I've just finished a campaign as Dutch forces (present day) vs. Russia. As the Dutch you can buy the the Patriot units with or without transport.
Thanks!
FASTBOAT TOUGH
USN/SS Ret.

Re: Transport for U.S. Patriot units.
 

The TO&E forum is the correct place to ask equipment or or organisational questions. That is why the forum description reads "This forum is the place to post your modified OOB files, to find official fixes to WinSPMBT OOB data and to discuss them as well as equipment."

Heavy trucks can probably move them - try buying heavy truck units which will probably be in the misc menu. Ditto prime movers.

As to why does the Dutch OOB have mixed Area SAM/Transport formations units, well whoever edited the OOB some time in the past must have added such. Some OOBS may have them, others not. Default is to have area SAM without organic transport, just like for towed arty.

Cheers
Andy

Re: Transport for U.S. Patriot units.
 

I'm sure a heavy truck or prime mover would be able in game to load and carry them. However, with the Patriot missile system its getting to be more gamey (ala the Tank Transporter) than realistic. Not a problem per say, but something to think about.

This isn't going to just pack up and go in less than 10 minutes:
http://www.au.af.mil/au/awc/systems/dvic450.jpg

Re: Transport for U.S. Patriot units.
 

The game has no real concept of set up times so the patriot is probably best set up as an area SAM class which you need to go to the bother of doing a pick up and move.

Similarly - the SA-6 system (for example) we allow as an SP-SAM, but the actual system set up if moved would be in the tens of minutes at least to hook up to the directors and radars that the game does not model either. In that case, the speed is deliberately reduced to make large displacements slower. (and the S-400 etc., will need that fix as well - they are currently rather high at 20 hexes ATM).

Cheers
Andy

Re: Transport for U.S. Patriot units.
 

Good day,

Area SAM's are an issue that you damned if you do and damned if you don't.:re:

Ideally they should be an Off Board asset but then being able to attack them would be an issue. On board unless the system is truly mobile I don't see why it should be movable except after it has shot it's salvo, and even then only to hide them.

The point made above ref Patriot etc is quite valid in regards to the set up times. Patriot and other systems have no business in our battle-spaces unless things have gone terribly wrong. A Patriot Bn is a 600man unit for those of you not aware.

All this said, these systems do effect the air space over our battle-space, and need to be represented somehow. I'm assuming the Engine cannot handle these systems as off board. Personally for their cost other AA assets are more useful due to their mobility. IMHO

Bob out:D

Re: Transport for U.S. Patriot units.
 

[quote=FASTBOAT TOUGH;642801]Thanks for the replys! I've tried using the various truck types in the past with no luck. Maybe a specialized hauler as shown by thatguy96 needs to be added? I'll "check myself" just to make sure there's no errors on my part though I've played this for years. I agree that except for shoulder, light vehicle or specialized mobile launchers (i.e. Chaperral) they should be treated like off map arty. I will say though the computer is very aggressive in trying to knock the Patriots out once spotted with determined air and arty attacks though in truth I do the same to protect my helos. Patriot units even with exprience might not shut down their FC radars in time when faced with the enemies "Wild Weasels". Shoot and Scoot isn't just for SP Arty or Tanks. If I'm being stupid or fiqure it out I'll let you know!
Thanks Again All!! [Exprience is not what happens to a man, it's what a man does with what happens to him.-Aldous Huxley]

Re: Transport for U.S. Patriot units.
 

Area SAM covers all towed equipments - to include Rapier, Aspide and so forth, which are definitely on map point-defence assets.

I am like you - I tend to use mobile AA assets since the AI is programmed (and a human opponent will!) treat them as high-priority targets if it has invested in aircraft.

But the option is there for the player to use them if desires, and they do have the advantage (the longer ranged ones) of being able to engage incoming aircraft off the map, and those firing ASM off map too. But a mobile SAM with range can do that too - so I would buy an SA-6 SP-SAM in preference to an SA-3 system, since it can trundle off somewhere else and set up a new position even if slowly.

When playing .uk, I do use towed rapier in overwatch (the SP land rover is a somewhat gamey unit IMHO).


Cheers
Andy

Re: Transport for U.S. Patriot units.
 

Time of expansion/curling of complexes S-300 and S-400 = 5 minutes

Re: Transport for U.S. Patriot units.
 

I can believe the basic erection or collapsing of the system components might only take 5 minutes, but I guess I don't believe that that's all that's required for complete system operation. I would think various connections, either physical or not would have to be made between the FCS and missile launchers, and that various formalities (system diagnostics, etc) would have to be performed before the system could be termed "operational." The game doesn't really reflect any of this, so I maintain that moving these systems around in the "instant" game timeframe of loading and unloading and even with the 1-turn lag for firing them is sort of gamey. Not a problem, since it is a game.

Re: Transport for U.S. Patriot units.
 

This time has been confirmed at some military exhibitions with real shooting by rockets.
How much I remember in game 1 turn = 5 minutes. Or I am wrong?

Re: Transport for U.S. Patriot units.
 

If you can confirm this somehow I will definitely admit that I'm wrong. But also firing a missile does not mean the missile can hit something. Military exhibitions are designed to sell equipment. They're by definition manufactured conditions and not necessarily representative.

Re: Transport for U.S. Patriot units.
 

More like 1 minute, let's say between 30 seconds and 2 minutes depending on what happens in the turn.

Re: Transport for U.S. Patriot units.
 

IMHO 5 mins give or take a few, I've based this out what the game says plus some checking around on max unit speeds. Although PlasmaKrab your timings would fit if nothing is really happening. however as soon as someone moves or fires the 5min rule should apply.;) All that being said some rounds of HEAT for example should go right though some targets and don't as in real life. :doh:;):D

Bob out :cool:

Re: Transport for U.S. Patriot units.
 

Both games have this bit of info on the first page of the game guide under "Introduction" and it's been there for years.

Don



`

Re: Transport for U.S. Patriot units.
 

:o I stand corrected Don, 5 mins is easier to figure out how long a battle is. ;)

Bob out:D

Re: Transport for U.S. Patriot units.
 

Did go back and had no luck with U.S. transport of the Patriot. But I do understand about game time vs. unit transport time.
Thanks to all!
Pat:down:

Re: Transport for U.S. Patriot units.
 

As far as I know no transport unit will shift this & a couple of other SAMs as they are to large. Makes sense unless its on a dedicated vehicle the setup is to long, however all should probably really be untransportable or vica versa.
When playing late US you either have static SAM defence with radar capable of attacking standoff units or mobile all without radar.
It is a problem the game has Radar SAMs are important if you want a half decent chance vs standoff attacks.

Re: Transport for U.S. Patriot units.
 

Just a note, saw it live this spring on a show, the evolution of a modernised Kub battery (reduced) took ca. 15 minutes, after that the missiles were able to track incoming Hinds, but hard to say how representative it was and whether the unmodernised system would be as fast as that.

Re: Transport for U.S. Patriot units.
 

5 minutes of time per move, even 10 for "campaign time" purposes is more realistic.

I cant recall which set of tabletop rules had such a comment, ie that their move was 1 minute, but for moving things about a separate campaign map call it 5, but it is rather true. (That set of rules allowed the full 'dead' time for engineering tasks, and realistically ours do as well. Clearing mines etc really takes much longer than in the game).

A move in any wargame may be X but we have a player-god pushing everyone around "personally". So all troops are more active than in real life, overall to the battle. IRL there is more dead time waiting about, as cluster-trucks get sorted, folks nip off for a quiet ciggie or just take time to put their act together. IRL troops and commanders are more cautious than wargamer player-Gods with our all-seeing eyes and ability to chivvy along each element individually!. But it would be boring to have the guys 'hang around' like they really do in our game of 'toy soldiers'. Player-Gods want a more Hollyweird type of alt-reality.

so - 1-3 minute of 'wargame' time = about 5/6 minutes real life elapsed time once the real-life 'dead' time is factored into the equation.

10/12 WinSP moves => 1 real life battle-hour is probably a good rule of thumb. 20-30 'action' minutes, and ignoring (in game terms) the other dead 'administrative' time.

Andy