Multi-Heroes?
 

Hey all,

I've seen several comments lately about "multi-heroes" (vs. the more traditional unique heroes), and I (to my knowledge) haven't seen one in the (SP only) games I've played. I gather that they are nation specific, and I was wondering about them (in case I would like to see some pop up.) I didn't see any detailed explanations in the FAQs, strategy guide, or the manual about them.

Basically, I'd like to know:

1) Which nations have them?
2) Are they based on the nations normal units, or are there special "hero chassis" units? If they're the normal units, are any of the nation's commander units potential multi-heros?
3) Depending on the answer to the above, does each nation get a particular multi-hero chassis, and all multi-heroes are based off of it, or do some nations have multiple multi-hero options?
4) Can you get multiples of the same "type" of multi-hero a) in the same game, b) at once? (thinking they might be something like the demon lords, where you can re-summon, but not have dupes)
5) Is the chance to get them affected by luck scales just like unique heroes?
6) Anything else interesting about them?

Thanks!

Re: Multi-Heroes?
 

1)No idea, though quite a few do, I think.
2)They're special hero units that you can gain multiple times, if I remember.
3)Nations can have up to two multi-hero chasses(chassii?), I think.
4)Multiples in the same game definitely, not sure about at the same time. Probably though. It's just a really low chance.
5)Yeah, I'm pretty sure.
6)Not that I know of. Someone else could probably inform you better about multiheroes.

Re: Multi-Heroes?
 

1) someone else is bound to know but a lot of nations have them
2) They are not normal units, usually they are improved versions of the nations commaders, sometimes opening special magic paths, sometimes just being a bit better in stats, usually slightly changed sprites, from time to time completely new stuff (but on the last thing I might be confusing them with uniques
3) a nation can have up to 2 multi hero's I think and they are nation specific (though in same nation can have a hero in different ages)
4) you can get more in the same game but you don't get more than one in the same event, I guess you could if you are extremely lucky get 2 in the same turn but it's highly unlikely. You can have more than one of the same at the same time (they are not unique)
5) Yes
6) a lot but it's hero specific and I don't even know them all. ow maybe this: the worthy hero mod gives all nations more of them I think

Re: Multi-Heroes?
 

There is a listing of every hero a nation gets in Edi's database on the army list page. Hero's are identified as heroes and multihero. The heros are unique, the multiheroes are not unique.

So your questios answers are:
1. refer to database.
2. refer to data base
3. refer to data base
4. yes. I have never seen two heroes appear in the same turn, but I cannot say it is impossible. :dk:
5. Yes. No heroes appear with negative luck. I don't know the actual probabilities thru luck 1,2,3.
6. Yes :wave:

Re: Multi-Heroes?
 

Thanks all, I'll look in Edi's database!

Oh, and regarding item #4, by "at once", I didn't mean "acquired in the same turn", I just meant "both alive at the same time". So, like the Djinni, even though (I think) it gets a different name, you can only have one at a time? I may be wrong about the Djinni.

Re: Multi-Heroes?
 

You can have more than 1 hero at a time. I had 4 at the same time once.

And I would stake wild guess that about 1/2 of the heroes are nothing to get too excited about.

Re: Multi-Heroes?
 

I think Edrat is wrong on getting no heroes with negative luck though.. I'm pretty sure I've seen them while I take my usual O3M2 stats.

I've heard pplz say that base chance of getting a hero is 3% per turn and each luck scale + or - adds or substracts 1% point from that base.
I have to add though that in my current SP game I'm not getting the heroes I should've gotten according to that calc though :D

Re: Multi-Heroes?
 

Multi-Heroes are really awesome for some nations.

In one MP game as MA Caelum, I had 3 Eagle Kings (the top capital only EA Caelum mage), and as MA Bandar Log, I often get free Yakshas (considered the best EA Kailasa recruitable mage).

With a little more experience in the game, you will get more of an intuitive feel of what heroes are unique/multi. Playing with Worthy Heroes (and CBM 1.3 even better!) really makes Luck a bit more attractive as a scale.

Re: Multi-Heroes?
 

I think Aezeal's numbers are right, which means you get no heroes if you take Misfortune 3, but you can with less severe misfortune.

3% base chance + or - the luck scale, so Misf 3: 3-3=0% chance.

Re: Multi-Heroes?
 

I don't know the stats on it, but I do know you can still get heroes with misfortune 2 (though probably not mis 3). I have gotten two in an MP game right now with misfortune 2.

Re: Multi-Heroes?
 

OK, I've had a look-see in version 3.20 of Edi's DomDB spreadsheets, and it seems like only Pythium-Emerald Empire and Eiru-Last of the Tuatha have them. :(

I guess that the rest are only in that Worthy Heroes mod? I haven't had a lot of luck getting mods to work, but perhaps I'll try wrangling with that one, as it seems like a nifty feature...

Re: Multi-Heroes?
 

How does the arrival of heroes work in regard to scales? Is it the base scale that matters? Or the current home province scale? Would the Lady of Fortune or Lord of Plenty gods increase your chance of getting a hero?

Re: Multi-Heroes?
 

MA Man also has multiheroes IIRC, the Knights of Stone (think Knights of the Round Table).

If you like heroes, Worthy Heroes mod makes them, well, worthy. Much more fun in SP. Conceptual Balance changes so many things that you might now want to try it, but it can also be fun once you get the hang of it.

Re: Multi-Heroes?
 

I know that Pythium has at least one multi-hero, the gladiator, or something. Not very good, but hey.

Re: Multi-Heroes?
 

hmm my numbers might be correct but in my correct game with luck 2 going on over 60 turns and good dominion everywhere I've only gotten one with marverni an old man in the woods which doesn't add that much for me :D... dammit (with CBM 1.3)

Re: Multi-Heroes?
 

Well it is indeed LUCK, so there's still a chance that you won't get them. You're just more likely too with a luck scale.

Re: Multi-Heroes?
 

Only base scale matters. You have a base chance of 3%

Luck adds 1% per point

Misfortune detracts 1% per point

So only with Misfortune 3 would you have no chance of heroes.

Re: Multi-Heroes?
 

MA Arcoscephale gets Oreiads as multiheroes I believe, or maybe thats only with worthy heroes (a nice mod even if you don't really care for Mods much - it just makes heroes a bit better and more varied).

Nice if you get one :)

Re: Multi-Heroes?
 

Dont knock the Gladiator hero. He's weak for a thug, but he has a natural attack with damage: Death. Thats pretty sweet if you can hit first.

Re: Multi-Heroes?
 

Most are unique as far as the image and information. But they do tend to be thematic and match the nations general storyline. Such as Pangaeas Harpy Queen. It is a very different picture and description from the other harpies that Pangea gets.

Re: Multi-Heroes?
 

Does Pangaea seem to get their heroes quite often? Even if you take misfortune scales? Granted, I've played Pan perhaps a third of all the Dom games I have played, so I may be biased, but I seem to always get two or even three of the heroes. And two of them (The Black Bull and the Harpy Queen) are pretty nice heroes.

Re: Multi-Heroes?
 

I get them often with Pangaea but Ive only rarely played with high misfortune. I play mostly with low Order and Productivity with Pangaea.

Re: Multi-Heroes?
 

Really? I've played them with misfortune many times (I often play LA Pan), and still seem to get the heroes every game. Odd.

Re: Multi-Heroes?
 

So...are people in this thread indicating that they get multi-heroes in NON-"worthy heroes" modded games (other than the two particular ages of Pythium/Eiru referenced above)? Should I trust the DomDB info, or is there another source?

Color me confused :(

Re: Multi-Heroes?
 

I think there's been a lot of blurring in this thread between getting multi-heroes and regular heroes.
I don't think anyone's been clear on having more than one multi-hero at the same time. I don't think I have, but I don't play most of those nations often. Man sometimes, but I don't remember seeing one Knight of the Stone, much less several.
Worthy Heroes shouldn't change the mechanics of heroes, just adding and changing the heroes themselves, so if people have had several multi-heroes there it should work in the base game too.


Looking at Edi's DB I see the following:
Bogarus -- Bogatyr - Multihero
Man -- Knight of the Stone (nonunique?)
Pythium -- Master of the Games (nonunique?)
Ulm LA -- Member of the Third Tier (Not marked as such, but name given as *?)

I'm not sure where you're seeing Eriu.
Knights of the Stone may be MA & LA. As may be Masters of the Games.

The DB doesn't seem to have standardized notation for heroes & multi-heroes so I could be missing something.

Re: Multi-Heroes?
 

As per Edratman's post above I went to the "ArmyList" tab of the spreadsheet. Then I just searched for "multi". The only hits are for Pythium - Emerald Empire (nation 29) with "Master of the Games" and for Eiru - Last of the Tuatha (nation 69) with "Fianna". I don't see like entries for Man, Ulm, or Bogarus at all. Where are you looking? :confused:

Re: Multi-Heroes?
 

I looked in the "AllUnits" tab.
Looking in the Army List, there are definitely heroes missing. Many only seem to be listed for one age, some are missing entirely.

But there are some, like the Fianna, not listed as heroes in AllUnits either.

So to answer your earlier question, you shouldn't trust the DB for heroes, but I don't know of another source.

Re: Multi-Heroes?
 

Stavis,

I just checked the data base and I see that it is not complete on heroes as you have stated. My bad.

I concur with Thejeff, there is not a better listing anywhere.

Sorry for the misleading information.

Re: Multi-Heroes?
 

The DB Credits & Notes page does note that the hero listing is incomplete, because otherwise it'd have taken forever to get the 3.20 version out. The next version will take even longer, because there will be, thanks to lch, some previously unknown information included both for units and items.

Re: Multi-Heroes?
 

Check the Allview map inside the Debug mod. I try to put all the heroes under one province (5) but I do not guarantee that the heroes are complete or enabled in the game.

Re: Multi-Heroes?
 

You can definitely get multiple multiheroes. I have had several Master of the Games with MA Pythium in the same game and alive at the same time. I don't think I ever got two in the same turn however.

This may have been played under Worthy Heroes (most MP games are). But the mechanic of getting Multiheroes would not change, only if there are any to actually get for that nation, with the Mod.

So multiple Multiheroes :)

Re: Multi-Heroes?
 

hmm... adding more multi-heroes would make luck a more worthwhile choice.

Re: Multi-Heroes?
 

shinuyama gets kitsune multiheroes.

i believe MA pangea also gets triton lords.

Re: Multi-Heroes?
 

I think I've clearly stated that you could get multipe multies too.

Re: Multi-Heroes?
 

Or, as was recently suggested, adding in more events that gave you quality commanders and/or mages, perhaps in addition to other effects.

Re: Multi-Heroes?
 

Ooh yes. Things like the random sirens you can pick up are rather nice events to get. More like that would be nice, as would the occasional borderline thug or decent commander.

Re: Multi-Heroes?
 

There are also the Olmspawns for EA Agartha, which are a slight variation to your Earth readers.

Re: Multi-Heroes?
 

When I played EA Caelum with high Order AND high Luck scales, I got three of their Seraph multiheroes with S3 or S4 or something during the course of the game, keeping them all until the late game. :)

Re: Multi-Heroes?
 

In Preponderance, I've had more than one Yaksha multihero turn up.

Re: Multi-Heroes?
 

When i played Man with +3 luck i got 3 Knights of Stone once (after 100+ turns)...

Too bad when i got the 3rd one i had already lost one of the other two in a battle, so i can´t say if you can have 3 at the same time, but i definitely had 2 at the same time...