SA-6 movement rate
 

Playing a game with some SA-6's and they only move at 6 points per two minute turn. Figuring that this is low, I googled and found data that the SA-6 has a road speed of 44km/hr and about 25km/hr cross country. I am not sure how speed is represented in the game, but by doing strict math I come up with:

44km/hr = 44000meters/50(50m per hex)/60(minutes)*2(game turn)= 29 hexes per turn, and off road:

25km/hr = 25000m/50/60*2=16 hexes per turn.

Now like I said this is just doing strict meter conversion into the game; maybe movement is halved first or something in the game. Either way, that 6 movement points is only 3 hexes cross country in game play in two minutes. I find moving at less then a walking pace (150m in 2 minutes) is a bit slow.

So can someone confirm my math or explain how movement points are derived at?

thanks.

Re: SA-6 movement rate
 

AFAIK the movement speeds for some of the heavier SAMs are artificially lowered, to compensate for the inability to model properly the times needed to set them up ready to fire once they reach a new location.

Griefbringer

Re: SA-6 movement rate
 

Ahh, that would make sense. I am not sure how slow the SA-6 is to set up, but still, 3 hexes? Might as well buy stationary SA-6 for that speed. But at least they got rid of the horse sound that it use to have.

thanks

Re: SA-6 movement rate
 

Ok, did a search and found tha the SA-6 has a "deploy for combat time" of 5 minutes (http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/missile/row/sa-6.htm).

Re: SA-6 movement rate
 

Although the game manual says " One game move (player 1 turn plus player 2 turn) represents roughly 2 - 3 minutes of 'real time'. " it's more like 3 than 2

If you read the MOBHack help you will find....."Ground Speed equation is: max km/h speed divided by 3 = SPEED in hexes."

at 44km/h it would be 15 or thereabouts. I'm not sure if this was slowed to simulate the time it would take to move and fire or somebody just droped the 1 from the speed in a cut and paste error and that became the template for all of them. On the other hand, they are 16 in the Czech OOB so this is looking like a dropped "1"

I'll put it on the to-do list for investigation

Don

Re: SA-6 movement rate
 

Hi Don; The unit in question is in the Syria OOB. While in there I checked and the SA-13 has a road speed of 40mph/60km/hr and a hex rate of 22. So the SA-6 should be around 15 if the SA-13 is 22, especially if each turn is 3 minutes more like.

Thanks.

Re: SA-6 movement rate
 

I'd say given that set-up time a speed of 6 is rather generous. IMHO:D

Bob out:cool:

Re: SA-6 movement rate
 

That was the original intent, since the game has no concept of set-up times. Ability to move 6 points means it will take a move or more likely 2 or 3 to displace a useful distance. (Some other OOB designers seem to have forgotten this and have given other mobile heavy SAM systems speeds of a squillion hexes :( - We will review heavy mobile SAMs move points this autumn)

Cheers
Andy

Re: SA-6 movement rate
 

Can I then suggest that either all the SP-SAM be adjusted down or the SA-6 adjusted up? Right now, from what I see, the SA-6 is still the only unit with that low of a movement speed. And even if it is suppose to reflect realism, don't you think it detracts from the game with it moving so slow? Even if it was bumped up to 5 hexes a turn or something, especially with the time scale of the game.

thanks!!

Re: SA-6 movement rate
 

I was talking to some of the guys at The Blitz, SP ladder, and they brought up some good points. If the slow movement of the SA-6 is to represent setup time, then why are howitzers and such not reflected like that too. When guns move they have to be unlimbered, setup, and then surveyed in so accurate plotting of fire can be brought in etc.

I had never thought of this, but one of the players who is a reserve arty officer did...and it makes sense. Even setting up man packed ATGM should take more then two minutes.

Re: SA-6 movement rate
 

Yes, I know. Don't worry. We'll get it all sorted out.I've already given them the higher movement rate for all those same reasons

Don

Re: SA-6 movement rate
 

What about "hipshoots" for artillery? Basically, a moving artillery battery receives a call for support is suppose to capable of unlimbering and sending rounds down range and reasonably on target:rolleyes: in less than six minutes.

In game turns, moving artillery can't receive a call for artillery. That would constitute the first turn since the unit has to unlimber. On the second turn, the call for artillery is actually plotted. Finally, at the earliest, the artillery hits on third turn. Game time, that should be 6-9 minutes.

Unless ADA units have a similar concept, I'm not sure it can be accurately be compared to artillery procedures.

Re: SA-6 movement rate
 

Basic unlimbering and set-up (in order to just to be able to fire a few shots) shouldn't take all that long, depending on the weapon in question of course.

Surveying the exact positions (for accurate fire to take place) could be an issue (at least if you do not have a GPS locator for your position). However, if the movement has been previously planned, then there should have been an advance party sent ahead to reconnoitre and survey the positions for the guns so that they can be just driven in. And a unit might have a couple of such alternative locations previously mapped out.

Of course, if you go for the full set-up (fine-tuning surveying and gun set-up, camouflaging positions, filling in sand-bags, digging in telephone lines, unloading a lot of ammo, digging in positions for close-in defense with small arms etc.) then that would take much more time.

In-game, the advantages of a properly sited in artillery are represented by it having the "Dug in" status, making it less vulnerable to enemy fire. Probably an argument could be made that artillery units not in such status should be less accurate, but whether that would be feasible/worthwhile to model in-game is another issue. Then again, the same argument could go for most infantry weapon types - shooting from well-prepared positions tends to be more effective than from hastily taken positions or on the move.

Griefbringer