Poll: Ship design strategy
 

There are a number of basic ship design strategies; some of these can only be done effectively with a quasi-newtonian propulsion mod.

Nimble & frail: Ships are faster than anything else around, and lack any shields or armor. Theory: You can't lose if the enemy can't hit you.

SwarmShips: Twice the ships, half the size. Weak offense/defense due to size, but tens to hundreds of ships at a time. Theory: Rapid building, safety in numbers, finer control over fleet composition.

MuscleShips: All weapons, with token defenses, and moderate speed. Theory: You can't lose if the enemy is already dead.

FortressShips: All systems organized for defense. Heavy shields/armor, lots of protection against specialty weapons. Moderate speed, few weapons. Theory: If they can't hurt you, you can't lose.

I am deeply devoted to the FortressShip. I've designed and built $100,000 DNs with that goal in mind.
My dad goes for the nimble & frail. Zero KT of defense, but 13+ movement ships that rarely get hit.

Which do you fall under? Or do you have your own style?

Re: Poll: Ship design strategy
 

Swarmships all the way. Swarmer of choice is the Light Cruiser. 10% defense bonus, and large mounts make them pretty viable in the late game (in sufficient numbers of course http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/ima...ons/icon12.gif ). Defense comes mainly from stealth/scattering armor, ECM, and ship/fleet experience, combined with a 20% defense bonus.

Re: Poll: Ship design strategy
 

"I need guns. Lots of guns." Well, perhaps not *extremely* so, but for my BBs/DNs I tend to favor firepower and speed. But then, I play vs. the AI, which doesn't exactly fare well against extensively-trained ships, so being hit isn't that often an issue. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/ima...ons/icon12.gif

------------------
-- The thing that goes bump in the night

Re: Poll: Ship design strategy
 

I guess I'd fit under muscle ships. I've been known to sacrifice an engine or two to fit one more weapon in.

------------------
Cap'n Q

The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the
human mind to correlate all of its contents. We live on a placid
island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was
not meant that we should go far. -- HP Lovecraft, "The Call of Cthulhu"

Re: Poll: Ship design strategy
 

Max speed, stealth and scattering when they are available, a PD mount, 3-4 shields, sensors, and the guns for me. Occasionally I'll go nuts and make a ship with like 8 shields, but that's ussually when someone pulls out a Null-Space cannon http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

Phoenix-D

Re: Poll: Ship design strategy
 

My preferred design so far is kind of a hybrid - Nimble Fortress ships. They have has many engines and movement enhancers as possible, a goodly amount of defense, and just a few powerful guns, and maybe a couple of missiles on the larger ships for long range planetary bombardment. I also like to swarm then into large fleets up to about 30-40 ships if I can with support ships - repair, refueler, mine sweepers, and specialized boarding ships with tractor beams and shield, weapon and engine damagers.

Re: Poll: Ship design strategy
 

I would say there is another type you missed and that is the balanced ship.
Good offensive/defensive abilities with decent speed.
This is the type I useally go for. Especially in solo games.
Having said that, my ships in multiplayer tend to adapt to what my opponents are using and what I have to work with. I have used all the types in one game or another. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Poll: Ship design strategy
 

I'm with Rich04; I go for very balanced ships. Just like with weapons, each of those ship types has inherent advantages/disadvantages. Nimble ships can't be easily hit by Fortresses; Swarms are so small they're worthless against Muscle; and so forth.

A balanced ship has a chance against all other types, I think.

Of course, my true favorite is a swarm of Fortress and Muscle ships. Who says you can't have a fleet of 70 DN's? http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

LL

Re: Poll: Ship design strategy
 

When I want balance (which is always) I go for balanced fleets rather than balanced ships. Because weapons have different ranges/reload times it would just seem to work better that way.

Re: Poll: Ship design strategy
 

For me it's Nimble & Frail all the way. In my current game I've built only unarmored, unshielded ships with good engines and as many weapons as possible.

------------------
"Gentlemen, we have nearly a thousand ships waiting to be thrown into the fight at the proper moment to seize control of the Foundation. I say we should change that. I say, throw those thousand onto the board now--against the Mule."
-- Randu of Haven, from "Foundation and Empire," by Isaac Asimov

Re: Poll: Ship design strategy
 

I'm with Neo all the way nible forts. ( late stages of the game )



------------------
L? GdX $ Fr C++ SdT T+ Sf* Tcp+ A M++ MpTM ROTS Pw+ Fq+ Nd Rp++ G+

Re: Poll: Ship design strategy
 

I'm a member of the Balanced Ship brigade. I like my ships fast, well armoured (usually with little shielding), lots of PDC's (to deal with fighters and any missiles) and plenty of weapons. Against humans of course, I adjust the PDC and shield level to reflect the ships I'm fighting. Battlecruisers are my preferred weapons platform (ship).....

Re: Poll: Ship design strategy
 

I almost always put max engines on my ships, but at the same time I put 8 phased shields V on my DNs. I suppose I'm a shield-heavy player since I don't use a lot of armour, but I do put stealth armour and scattering armour on my ships for the 30% bonus though. As to ships strategy I found a ripper beam-armed DN firing at point blank range is the most successful in my current PBW game.

Re: Poll: Ship design strategy
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I like my ships fast, well armoured (usually with little shielding), lots of PDC's (to deal with fighters and any missiles) and plenty of weapons. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Hey, you can't have it all ways. Moderate everything is what you've got.

I should note that in order to have really fast ships (relative to others, of course), you need to be playing under a quasi-newtonian propulsion mod, which forces you to sacrifice large amounts of hull space to engines in order to get high movement.
EG: P&N v2, A battlecruiser can go 12MP (using 240kT) or can go 6MP and carry 3 more shield generators or Triple-Largemount APBs

Re: Poll: Ship design strategy
 

Ballanced... with defense being either armor or shields based on what the enemy has.

Normally maxed engines with at least 2 shields then special systems and weapons with leftover spots being used for armor. Always have Stealth and Scattering though. Unless I am beating you around so much that it doesn't matter if I have them or not. *EG*

Re: Poll: Ship design strategy
 

I fill the ship up with max movement possible (do not play the quasi movement mod)
than place 5 or 6 point defences cannons on depending on the enemy. Than split the rest up evenly between weapons and shields.

Favourite Hull is the battleship as i feel it has a good balance between speed and size while still allowing me to have Huge weapon mounts.

If the enemy has quite a few fighters or missiles I will place a few Point defence ships in my fleets for extra potection. Point defence ships are normally battle cruisers with max movement 3 shields 1 gun and the rest point defence.

------------------
CyC
L+++ GdY $!+ Fr+ C--- S* T!- Sf++ Tcp++ A? M++ MpM RV Pw+ Fq++ Nd+++++ Rp++ G

Re: Poll: Ship design strategy
 

I'd say a Swarm/Muscle hybrid. Not exactly small ships (BBs, 800kT), but they do better hunting in packs. Using plain old vanilla tech, I max out engines, put on one, *maybe* two shields, Stealth/Scattering, and 3 Organic or Crystalline (depends which one I have http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif. Weapons are 3xH-EAGs (w/ Organic) or ShieldOnly/ArmorSkip combos (w/ Crystalline), 1xH-EngineKiller, 1xH-WeaponKiller, 1xPDC. A seperate design is devoted completely to PDC, usually retrofitted to the main attack design after attaining substantial experience.

With quasi-Newtonian movement, I would probably sacrifice a small amount of firepower for increased speed. Probably have three designs, one ditching a EAG, one ditching the EngineKiller, one ditching the WeaponKiller. With P&N2, I would probably also get a few fortresses that sit on warps and act as staging points for the the pack fleets, or as flagships for multiple packs invading.

Re: Poll: Ship design strategy
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Using plain old vanilla tech, I max out engines, put on one, *maybe* two shields, Stealth/Scattering, and 3 Organic or Crystalline (depends which one I have . Weapons are 3xH-EAGs (w/ Organic) or ShieldOnly/ArmorSkip combos (w/ Crystalline), 1xH-EngineKiller, 1xH-WeaponKiller, 1xPDC.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Interesting. I've tried that weapon killer beam a number of times and my conclusion was that it is utterly useless. I had a DN filled up with about 6 of those (heavy mount) and in 30 combat turns it wouldn't even kill all the weapons on another DN that didn't fire back (both ships under manual control in simulator)!

Re: Poll: Ship design strategy
 

A mix of point defence and null space projectors is best. I may have the weapon name wrong, simply check this out. The phased polaron beam description says that it penetrates regular shields. The other weapons say they penetrate shields, with no modifier/qualifier. So when going up against ships which have phased shields, the weapons which penetrate all shields and armor too are certainly best of all.

Lonnie Courtney Clay

Re: Poll: Ship design strategy
 

Balance is nice, specialization is better.

Generally, you know who you are fighting and can refit most of your ships to just the right form to fight them. Then, when you get them to surrender, you choose a new enemy and refit your ships to a new design suited to take them out. Further, you have improved your technology along the way and were going to do a refit anyway.

However, if you are facing a couple of wars with different enemy styles, specialization can get you killed very fast. So, my ship style changes depending on the political situation. One enemy, specialize ships to kill them. Several enemies, balanced ships.

However, I stay away from the swarm as you always lose some ships in each battle. That amounts to a loss of resources and many games boil down to an economic slugfest, so I hate to waste.

Re: Poll: Ship design strategy
 

Put me down for Nimble and Frail.

My favorite is:

BC
Max Speed
1 or 2 shields
4 Large Mount PBB 5
3 PDC

Can get to bases, and can stick and move everything else

Re: Poll: Ship design strategy
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I had a DN filled up with about 6 of those (heavy mount) and in 30 combat turns it wouldn't even kill all the weapons on another DN that didn't fire back <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>A specialty weapon does not leave any "excess" damage, so if it cannot destroy a weapon, it does nothing. You need to use it against smaller-mounted weapons, or at point-blank range (to increase damage).

Re: Poll: Ship design strategy
 

Ya, I normally use tactical, so I can use the weapon killers where they will actually kill weapons. Like I can have all my ships in range target an enemy PDC ship so any fighters I'm using don't get pulverized. If it's a ship with only uber-sized guns, I'm not going to waste my firepower on it.

Sometimes too I'll ditch the weapon killers on my attack ships and just put them on defense ships. Their purpose is basically to kill if possible, and if not, severely maim, attackers. Take out repair ships and you effectively kill an invasion while reinforcements arrive. Would be nice if I could have more control over the combat AI so I could use this strategy in multiplayer (once I figure out what the heck is wrong with my computer http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif )

Re: Poll: Ship design strategy
 

I generally perfer high ECM ships. Usually only one shield generator, stealth and scattering armor, and longer ranged weapons. The ECM and armor give -90% to Hit and along with my normal racial -25% to Hit allow my ships to Last even with a fairly low amount of shields.

Re: Poll: Ship design strategy
 

They do not have a tractor beam with a large enough range to be via able

why would you need to drag something only 4 squares away closer ?

i want something that can bring things in from 20 squares away

ok going a bit over board there but you get the point

------------------
CyC
The Person not the AI
L+++ GdY $!+ Fr+ C--- S* T!- Sf++ Tcp++ A? M++ MpM RV Pw+ Fq++ Nd+++++ Rp++ G

Re: Poll: Ship design strategy
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by CyC:
They do not have a tractor beam with a large enough range to be via able

why would you need to drag something only 4 squares away closer ?

i want something that can bring things in from 20 squares away

ok going a bit over board there but you get the point<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

What if you are using Ripper Beams with a range of 3 like my close combat class of DNs? In fact if you have two opposing ships each beefed up with over 100% defensive bonus (ECM, stealth/scattering armour, racial points...), that two or three squares in range makes a hugh difference in weapon accuracy.

By the way, a normal mount tractor beam operates exactly like a massive mount one, so you can forget about anything over a normal mount. That 20kt of space for the tractor combined with a 40kt heavy mount repulser beam (on my DN) is quite well spent in my opinion.


[This message has been edited by CW (edited 12 September 2001).]

Re: Poll: Ship design strategy
 

I guess I go for Balanced muscle ships. First LC, then BC's. Skip Cruisers. Max engines and solar sail, speed 10. 5 large PPB, all armor, maybe one shield. ECM etc all standard. Then research Battleships and engines 7, so that the BB get speed 10 too. One PDC on each ship, plus a few dedicated LC PD ships. As weapons I use mostly PPB, later on added some shield depleters, and some null space ships especially against organics. This is all on PBW , strategic combat. Retrofit all to have MC when you meet a Psychic race, and use SDD because of the low amount of shields you are vulnerable to boarding parties.

Re: Poll: Ship design strategy
 

What SE4 needs is an ER tractor beam.
IE: Tractors that reach out 8-12 squares, and do 1-2 "pull" damage.

EDIT: I've already modded it, and it can be found in P&N v2, plus P&N Classic, maybe even earlier Versions. Feel free to copy the ER beams.

[This message has been edited by suicide_junkie (edited 13 September 2001).]

Re: Poll: Ship design strategy
 

easy to mod. Either create the weapon or add the range enhancement modifier for weapons.

------------------
L? GdX $ Fr C++ SdT T+ Sf* Tcp+ A M++ MpTM ROTS Pw+ Fq+ Nd Rp++ G+

Re: Poll: Ship design strategy
 

Fast/Muscle hybrid.

"Hit 'em fast and hard, then get the hell out of Dodge," as I like to say. Tractor/Weapon/Repulsor strategy is mandatory for this philosophy.