Archers,Precision & Shields
 

Does a higher precision value help archers against enemies with a shield?
The manual says no, but in a battle my shielded troops have been decimated by wind-guided archers. Normally I could more or less ignore them.

Re: Archers,Precision & Shields
 

well precision will help but not directly, getting more arrows actually heading where you want the tends to get more past sheilds, also if the enemy archers have crossbows or arbalests they may very well be able to punch through a sheild that parries them.

Re: Archers,Precision & Shields
 

Actually, the manual seems to be pretty clear that blocking a missile with a shield is 100% effective. Melee attacks can punch through shields if they do enough damage, but missiles cannot.

The exception is a missile with a secondary effect, such as Sauromatia's poisoned arrows. Blocking a poison arrow with your shield still seems to get you poisoned....

Re: Archers,Precision & Shields
 

Secondary effects are "on hit", so it's irrelevant whether it's a shield hit or not.

Re: Archers,Precision & Shields
 

so are flaming arrows a secondary effect? meaning the flame damage will occur even if the arrow is blocked by a shield?

Re: Archers,Precision & Shields
 

i'm afraid i'll have to argue with you there, the manual has an example where an arrow is blocked by a sheild but doesn't talk about it in detail, you will notice sheilds have a protection value, this value is exclusively put into action when you block an arrow/other ranged weapon .

(protection from sheild never adds on to body protection in melee, if you win defense vs attack roll in melee it's simply a miss)

Re: Archers,Precision & Shields
 

Man there's a lot of misinformation in this thread.

Shield prot value ONLY applies in melee. It is added to other prot values when the def as boosted by the shield is enough to 'avoid' the att, but the base defence without the parry bonus is not.

Missiles are parried by shields or not. Prot value of the shield is NOT involved. At all.

It's true that secondaryeffect poison on poison arrows still poisons the target even on shield parry. However it is NOT true that secondaryeffect always works on hit. Shield parries in melee work to prevent secondaryeffect damage from poisoned melee weapons for example, AS DOES BODY PROT.

Now this may not be the case with ALL secondaryeffects (in fact I'm certain it isn't), but it is the case with poison melee weapons.

Re: Archers,Precision & Shields
 

Thanks, Sombre. I've wondered in the past whether the AN 2 from D9 Death Weapons ignores shields or not. The data about poison weapons isn't dispositive w/rt Death Weapons, but it's useful.

-Max

Re: Archers,Precision & Shields
 

In other words, I was right. :D I have resolved to read my manual more often, because it really does have a treasure trove of useful data.

Now that's interesting. So if my base Prot value is high enough, I won't get poisoned by (for example) Tritons with Coral Spears?

Shield parries can block poison damage in melee, but not from poisoned arrows?

So a Bane Blade will still inflict Decay, even if you block with your shield? Maybe?

What about a Banefire Bow? Will you still suffer Decay if you stop the arrow with your shield?

Re: Archers,Precision & Shields
 

The Banefire's Decay effect is AOE, and will trigger whether the bolt is parried or not, so all units within that AOE will have to perform MR check against it.

Re: Archers,Precision & Shields
 

perhaps i've been proven wrong nvm my mistake.

Re: Archers,Precision & Shields
 

I believe so. I know that in my test of poisoned daggers vs infantry with no shields and heavy armour, the only time they had poison damage was when they had taken regular damage too.

Correct.

Re: Archers,Precision & Shields
 

Still hoping (hey, just hoping, not a crime) for some lil' fix on that personally :D

Re: Archers,Precision & Shields
 

I think AN missiles might ignore shields though?

Re: Archers,Precision & Shields
 

Banefire bow (that longdead archers have) is different from the banefire spell and banefire crossbow. The banefire bow decay does not have an AOE effect, but it is resistible by MR.

Re: Archers,Precision & Shields
 

The formula for checking if an arrow hits is something like this:
If (2*shield parry value) is higher than (random roll), the missile hit is negated.

Could someone provide the page number, or the actual formula? I don't have my manual (or even Dom3) here.

I'm not sure which ranged weapons aren't affected by shields, but AFAIK Boulders thrown by Jotun units can be blocked by Hide Shields wielded by unarmoured Machakan Spearmen.

Re: Archers,Precision & Shields
 

page 77:

Attacker (missile) DRN: DRN + (size points in square) + (2 if magic missile)
Defender DRN: DRN + 2 + (shield parry * 2) - (fatigue / 20)

I always thought AoE missiles like the boulder (and AN missiles too) ignored shields, but I never tested either.

Re: Archers,Precision & Shields
 

Boulders are not AEO as far I can tell.

Re: Archers,Precision & Shields
 

Yep, boulders AoE sounded strange to me too. I used those heavily in Principe and never seemed to kill more than one enemy each one thrown.

Re: Archers,Precision & Shields
 

AoE boulders would be sweeeeet. :p


And thanks Edi, I'm not sure why I omitted the word "crossbow", I guess I assumed the others worked the same (only time I used the archers, I had a bazillion of them, couldn't tell if it was AoE effect or not).

Re: Archers,Precision & Shields
 

Thanks guys, I don't know why I misremembered that. I haven't gone up against (or used) boulders for quite a while.

Re: Archers,Precision & Shields
 

But Fire Boulders are AoE. ;)

Re: Archers,Precision & Shields
 

Two types of "Boulder" exist:

Agartha fire boulders: not AOE.
Jotun fire boulders: AOE.

I feel that strange too. Maybe we should make Agartha use the same weapon id as the jotun. (mod or patch)

Re: Archers,Precision & Shields
 

Heh. KO thinks Jotuns have bigger rocks than Agarthans :D

Re: Archers,Precision & Shields
 

No, I insist the Agarthan are true rock experts. The Jotun must be using something fake.:mad:

Re: Archers,Precision & Shields
 

Having Agartha somewhat underperforming while costly troops, that would be a nice change (but I will continue to love my big favourite pale monoculars even without any changing :) )

Re: Archers,Precision & Shields
 

Agartha aren't going to be casting flaming arrows anyway. Neither are Jotuns for that matter.

Re: Archers,Precision & Shields
 

? Agartha has up to F3 mages and capital F gems income, why shouldn't they cast it if it's good ;)

Re: Archers,Precision & Shields
 

they tend to kill things with one boulder without flamming arrows, it's a waste.

Re: Archers,Precision & Shields
 

Well, if the boulders do become AoE 1, then that's 3 things with one boulder. Hardly a waste. Also means that shields don't stop them anymore.

Re: Archers,Precision & Shields
 

Admittedly, if fire boulders were aoe 1 it wouldn't be out of question to cast it. But I still don't think it would be better than say, Shinuyama and their massed shortbows.

Re: Archers,Precision & Shields
 

Agartha EA vs Niefel EA = Niefel's gonna win, most of the time. I suspect the current state of affairs has to do with Agartha boulder-throwers being sacred, opposed to Niefel giants not being sacred, but current thoughts on balance should agree with my suggestion that Agartha could use the boost way more than Niefelheim. Not that EA Agartha is weak-by any means-just not as awesome as Niefelheim is.