Empty fortresses
 

I don't believe empty fortresses should do anything. If there's no defender you get the fort when you get the province.

It's really silly that a flier needs to break down the walls to take a fort with nobody inside!

Re: Things I'd like to see pXXV
 

There are of course people inside, just not military.

Its silly enough that a single scout can capture a province with 15k people in it...

Re: Things I'd like to see pXXV
 

That problem has been fixed. I use it in many of the games I run on my server.

Re: Things I'd like to see pXXV
 

I'm with licker. Lol, the single scout enters the 15k pop province momentarily empty, claims the rulership over it without anybody moving a finger, goes to the fort, the grunts inside (the ones who shoot from the towers, remember?) open him the drawbridge too, he enters the court and everybody applaud? :D

Re: Things I'd like to see pXXV
 

I like to imagine a province without PD as not just being without a garrison, but lacking infrastructure, administration and governance from the capital. In such cases the scout isn't physically attacking, he's exploiting the void in central authority to bribe the local dukes, tribal chiefs, satraps or whatever with promises of wealth and power, so they switch sides.

Re: Things I'd like to see pXXV
 

But a bribe should cost money - no?

Re: Things I'd like to see pXXV
 

He steals them first :P

Re: Things I'd like to see pXXV
 

Bribes would cost money - but it can come from an economic system outside the game's represenation. For instance, giving cooperative nobles ownership over the land taken from the unruly scum causing the unrest after you take the province; getting the job as your PD leader; being favoured supplier for the materials for your temple; etc. Makes no difference to the national tax, but that theoretical noble is richer.

Re: Things I'd like to see pXXV
 

And capturing an empty province with Call of the Winds? Are the Black Hawks carrying bags of money in their beaks? :rolleyes:

Certain situations remind me that Dom3 is, in fact, a strategy game. Realism must bow to gameplay.

Say ... how exactly are Blood Slaves instantaneously transported from a laboratory on one end of my empire to another laboratory that's hundreds (or thousands) of miles away? And before you answer with "Magic," remember that those Blood Slaves can be transported before I've even done any magical research.

Back to the OP: I don't like the idea. Forts are expensive. They should offer some defense -- even if empty -- by slowing down the attacker's conquest.

Re: Things I'd like to see pXXV
 

I'd argue Call Of The Winds sends a decent army of oversized man-eating birds led by a really huge intelligent bird that is capable of military enforcement. :D

I agree that the fort can and should be able to hold out even if not staffed.

Re: Things I'd like to see pXXV
 

Agree with Licker's reasoning. While no PD may represent no central authority which can be exploited by above-mentioned scouts (etc.), fort can be held for some time by untrained personnel which has something to lose if/when government changes. Time before their surrender can represent bribes and guaranties needed to make them abandon hiding behind walls/join your side...

Re: Things I'd like to see pXXV
 

Plus don't forget that there is a month between each turn. Your black hawks might just be clearing out local resistance while you send your diplomats in, or your scout might just be making overtures to local government. It's a little silly of course, but it doesn't seem all that unrealistic.

Re: Things I'd like to see pXXV
 

Actually, in the case that was annoying me that prompted that message there weren't people inside, even. It was a nation that had died of a lack of dominion.

Re: Things I'd like to see pXXV
 

Well, it's the god who dies because of dominion disapearance, not the fort defenders...

Re: Things I'd like to see pXXV
 

Yes, they get to enjoy a few halcyon months of independence until the next god moves in. God is dead, long live god.

Re: Empty fortresses
 

What if the province has no population either as well as no troops and no dominion? At what point does an abandoned fort become a hidden magic site like a Jermelaine Wall?

:)

-Max

Re: Empty fortresses
 

On most maps, in most games, those are free to move into. They are like a locked castle where everyone has died off. If the god has died off then the province has reverted to independent. There is no PD so just a scout can take control of the province. But it would take him forever to break in. An army will eventually break a wall or gate and get in to claim it.

Re: Empty fortresses
 

I see a single-scout takeover of an unprotected province as the scout coming up to the local lord under a diplomatic aegis, pointing out that he has no army to speak of, and asking if he'd like to become a protectorate of your nation. It's worked before.

Re: Empty fortresses
 

I'd say the situation is even more favorable, since the scout is the representative of not just a nation but an incarnate God. That has to carry some weight, especially the sun is being blotted from the sky and armies of cannibal giants are roaming the land.

I think the real question is what happens when a blind, mute, insane tartarian takes over a province. It seems like the province could just not pay attention to him, and go about their normal business, but very quietly.

Re: Empty fortresses
 

Yay, until he goes on "All will be ashes" :mean:

Re: Empty fortresses
 

I'm sure when the blind, mute, raving tartarian goes in, they convert to your cause just to beg you to get that damn monstrosity out of their land!

Re: Empty fortresses
 

With no defenders of their own that does have some game logic to it.

Re: Things I'd like to see pXXV
 

But all his troops vanish the next turn. A scout can gobble up the empty space--except for the fortresses. Who is guarding them??? And why???

Re: Empty fortresses
 

I dont think they do. They become independents

Re: Empty fortresses
 

It would be cool if the "independent" armies would still fight in battles, even if (by necessity) they forgot all nationally-researched spells and drew from the indy spell book. Actually that would be kind of funny if someone got dom-killed early on (AI Mictlan) and all the indy mages shared their collective racial memory with them (i.e. they gain access to the indy grimoire).

-Max

Re: Empty fortresses
 

You mean if the independents were aggressive? Believe me, you dont want that. They swarm you like a nation that has had 100 turns and you just started.

But there are indies that will play full AI. I have them in games on my server. They move across the provinces and gather armies as they come. It can be a big surprise when that grey banner province next to you attacks you.

Re: Empty fortresses
 

I'm sorry, I must have been unclear.

Loren said: "Dom Death makes troops vanish. Where do they go?"

Gandalf said: "They become independents." Actually they really do vanish, but I took this as a RP suggestion that the troops retired and became "independents" in that sense, since their God was dead.

Then Max said: "It would be cool if they were *real* independents and would still fight."

That's what I meant. That said, the idea of aggressive independents is seriously cool in my mind. How do you do it? Do you set up one of the "empty nation" slots using map commands?

-Max