Is LA Bogarus decent enough to go blood?
 

I'm new to LA games, but I found Bogarus a very interesting nation to play with. Their mages are very powerful in terms of path variety, and they have access to blood magic, which is my favorite. But when I took a closer look, I found that the fivefold angels（b2) actually causes unrest in any provinces, which made them not very economical blood hunters, while the occultist(b1), even with blood hunting rod, cannot guarantee 100% success blood hunt. Moreover, it's very difficult for them to get b3 mages by trying the luck on starets, as b3 is the threshold to open up blood magic boosting.

Do anyone have any luck play bogarus as a blood nation?

Re: Is LA Bogarus decent enough to go blood?
 

Fivefold angel costs 180 gold and is sacred, right? Then I beileve the price is okay as some other blood nations are even paying more than it - Pan costs 350, skratti of Jotunheim(b2/b3) needs 250. Recently I also hear some pals are using 10 scouts for blood hunting, it cost 200 gold, bring far more unrest and can merely expect one success. You can take it as a good reference.

IMO the biggest problem of Bogarus is they have only rubbish national units but very good magic potential, which makes them always among the list to be rushed. Thus they have no good chance of planning their blood economy.

Re: Is LA Bogarus decent enough to go blood?
 

I played Bogarus in a game before the game broke down for various reasons, but I would like to report that they're a great blood hunting nation. I would definitely recommend an awake cyclops pretender with air and earth to give him mistform, resist lightning, air shield,and the earth buff line.

I tried the five-fold angels but I really preferred the occultists with a sanguine dousing rod. I would send 2 to any province over 5k, and I even blood hunted in several provinces that were only 3k-4k, but that was fine with me. I had very good results, at the end I was able to diversify into blood magic SCs with arch devils, and you can get a blood stone economy up and running by empowering one of your alchemists with the blood slaves.

Jazzepi

Re: Is LA Bogarus decent enough to go blood?
 

Instead of a cyclops, why not just a titan? They already have air and earth. They aren't *quite* the SCs that cyclops are, but they come with a great shield, and you'd probably save points.

Re: Is LA Bogarus decent enough to go blood?
 

Because they're garbage compared to a cyclops point for point. Titans are the big joke of pretenders.

Jazzepi

Re: Is LA Bogarus decent enough to go blood?
 

Well, I won't deny that.

Re: Is LA Bogarus decent enough to go blood?
 

Really it mostly comes down to the Cyclops' innate fear, and base Prot of 20. The Titan has a nice shield, and a better weapon, but swings that make contact will hurt like hell, and he'll have to fight for longer before things break.

Personally I am still in the camp that feels that Bogarus on paper looks like an awake SC nation, but will be better served by going another route.

Let the bickering ensue. :p

Re: Is LA Bogarus decent enough to go blood?
 

I'd personally be happy if the Titan had the ability to add shock damage to *any* weapon he held. That would significantly raise his power level, and make sense, considering his "lightning fist" attack.

One other idea I wouldn't mind seeing would give Titans random magical items. So you'd start with 1-3 forged items on your Titan, but take away their shields.

Re: Is LA Bogarus decent enough to go blood?
 

Most nations that are awake SC nations will be better served if you go another route really.... end game one more SC doesn't matter that much... thing is.. you need to REACH end-game first.. or mid-game and some nations need a SC for that (in MP of course)

Re: Is LA Bogarus decent enough to go blood?
 

Actually I find using a awaken father of winters (A4W2E2, basic requirement to unlock three paths) is quite efficient to clear the province around capital and subsequently build-up a heavy calvary forces to expand/counter rush or just build 2nd fortress to boost research. Their calvery forces are not that bad compared to their trash infantry.

Go back to the topic of blood magic. I forgot to consider the sacred attribute of fivefold angel. In that case, they made good blood hunters with dosing rods. However they still need to invest a lot blood slaves on starets (they usually get to b2 at maximum) to get to high b in order to leverage end-game blood magics.

Re: Is LA Bogarus decent enough to go blood?
 

Bogarus also gets Astral, so Rings of Sorcery should help. In addition, there are three Blood boosters item that only take blood: Blood Athame, Brazen Vessel and Armor of Souls. Even a normal B2 Staret with those four can cast up to B6 spells, and you can give those items to any uniques you get.

Besides, empowering in Blood is much easier than empowering in other paths, because it's so much easier to get high Blood income. Just remember to empower a Staret and not a Fivefold Angel, because Starets can use Dwarven Hammers when forging boosters.

Re: Is LA Bogarus decent enough to go blood?
 

I dont think its a good idea to start Bogarus without water on your pretender. Water path is needed for 1) boots of quickness 2) clam of pearls, and you have a national summon, Vodyanoi, who comes with W3N1. Quite a bargain.
And yep, Bogarus can bloodhunt quite efficiently. Much better than, say, Vanheim, slightly worse than Mictlan.

P.S.
Starets is a singular form, not plural. :)

Re: Is LA Bogarus decent enough to go blood?
 

Water on your pretender is a waste. You have a nation hero that comes with water, and it's much easier to get into blood stone hording than it is it get into clamming with bogarus seeing as they have neither natural nor water naturally, but they do have blood and earth naturally.

Jazzepi

Re: Is LA Bogarus decent enough to go blood?
 

As we're a bit on topic (or we were some lines ago) I'd like to say that if the "Thunder Fist" was AoE 1 it would be awesome both thematically and in game mechanics IMHO :p Can you imagine this titan of the clouds, punch the earth and 3 or 4 men fall at once strucked by a lightning wave? ;)

Re: Is LA Bogarus decent enough to go blood?
 

Rusalkas are pretty spiffy actually, they open up W for a 6-gem investment, though it really depends on pretender chassis in terms of being worth taking W

Re: Is LA Bogarus decent enough to go blood?
 

But then you need to have Construction 6 to forge them a water bracelet before they do anything useful. I think you also need access to a water province to summon them into.

I'm not saying it's terrible, but I don't see the use. You'll get around to it eventually if you just wait for the random hero to show up.

Jazzepi

Re: Is LA Bogarus decent enough to go blood?
 

I think Rusalka can be summoned on land. But you still need w1d1 to summon them. (they are w1d1 also) The national summons of bogarus seem won't open any new path for it.

Re: Is LA Bogarus decent enough to go blood?
 

Water is a waste? :)
Quicken self and breath of winter for pretender, boots of speed for your golems, clams for an astral nation - I wouldnt call it a waste. Btw, you can have BOTH bloodstones and clams.
Also, there aren't many nature indies in the late age, and Vodyanoi comes with N1.

Re: Is LA Bogarus decent enough to go blood?
 

It's a waste because you have to spend points to get it that you would otherwise be able to spend elsewhere.

Sure D9 is great on your pretender, oh and so is A9 and E9 and B394,498,283, but you have to spend points to get those things. Those buffs are infinitely worse then the air and earth buffs that you get nearly for free with the cyclops. Generally with nonundead SC quickness is just bad because it makes you gain more fatigue per-turn, unless you have a blood thorn, or some other type of fatigue draining attack item.

Also, N1 does not really properly expand you "into nature". You'll need to get a +1 nature stick from a neighbor, and you still can't clam properly because you don't have a N/U guy.

Jazzepi

Re: Is LA Bogarus decent enough to go blood?
 

Kuritza, sounds like you got yerself some kind of clam farming happening over there in Wheel of Time land. :shock: :D

Re: Is LA Bogarus decent enough to go blood?
 

Kek. :)

First off, N1 does expand you into nature. You are astral nation, remember? You can and have to make rings.
Second, on a non-undead SC quickness isnt bad because there are summon earthpower and boots of the messenger.
Third, vodyanoi can craft clams. And if you dont have access to a water province (and cannot negotiate for it), you have Beregini (though they are higher in the research tree and more expensive, so vodyanoi is somewhat better).

2 Vfb:

Of course I have. :) Would be silly not to, dont you think? I have a whole lot of TWO clams!!! ))
What's worse, Jomon is making bloodstones.

Re: Is LA Bogarus decent enough to go blood?
 

@Kuritza:

Do you mean your Bogarus has so many clams that all your commanders each have to hold 2? Or you have exactly 2 clams in the possession of your entire nation? How many blood stones did you see Jomon with? Are you sure you didn't trade one to him?

Re: Is LA Bogarus decent enough to go blood?
 

I mean that I have exactly 2 clams in the possession of my entire nation :) After all, Bogarus isnt a water-using nation to begin with, so nearly all my water income was used for Voices of Apsu and boots of quickness. Had to replace 2 golems recently, too... and Pythians didnt find any water sites for us, lazy buggers. :)
I saw just one bloodstone - in the army that is invading Tien Chi right now. One of the Shugenjas is holding it. And no, Bogarus isnt trading with anyone - we are self-reliant. :)

Re: Is LA Bogarus decent enough to go blood?
 

Ah. I see it now. Maybe he got it from a random event. I got a Robe of the Magi as R'lyeh in around turn 10 of an MP game once!

Re: Is LA Bogarus decent enough to go blood?
 

I rather frequently invest 30 gems to empower to N2 to get searching rolling, earlier and faster than I'd ever have a ring out (or often in cases where rings are not an option anyway).

Magic + Luck = Diversity ... take that, racism! :p

Re: Is LA Bogarus decent enough to go blood?
 

Luck = Turmoil = no money. :)

Re: Is LA Bogarus decent enough to go blood?
 

Did you mean Luck = Money = Turmoil? :p

Re: Is LA Bogarus decent enough to go blood?
 

Order-3 Luck-3 is doable, for some nice money with extra money piled on top. I'm using those scales in at least one MP game. It feels like 1 less event on average per month compared to Turmoil-3 Luck-3. Not suited to all nations of course... it's best when you don't need a bless, can use a pathless pretender, and have free points from a temperature scale.