Quick Questions
 

I have two quick questions about gameplay rules, if you will.

First, this oil thing. The victory-condition states that "Control of Singapore, Borneo, Java will add one to each of the reserves, but these additions are reduced by one for each of Formosa, Luzon, Leyte controlled by the Allies."

One month of oil is consumed each turn, and the game starts with Japan at -1. If I get control of Luzon, does the number go to
"0"? Or would the number stay at -1, since the only way to actually get a point of oil, I would have to capture, say, Borneo? And if Leyte becomes a functional Allied base, Japan would then be at -2? Conversely, if the Allies get functional control of Borneo, the number would stay the same.

This seems to be the way this works, since gaining control of Luzon and getting the base functional doesn't change the number at all. It is only when Borneo is captured, etc. the Japan's oil reserves stabalize.

My second question deals with building up bases. I know that sending a convoy into a base that is rebuilding will bring that base to functional (or at least doing it for two turns will do the trick). It also says in the manual, on page 20, that "if the icons are orange, then the base is not functional and must be repaired (by patrolling or convoys)before it can contribute to any victory conditions."

How long does it take to get a base functional when using patrolling only? I've tried to figure this out and it appears that sending only a patrolling TF to rebuild a base doesn't seem to result in any kind of rebuilding of the base (i.e., the red line doesn't advance). And if there is an effect, as the manual states there should be, does it make a difference on the pace of rebuilding if your TF is bigger or includes some of the bigger ships? I seem to recall somewhere in the manual where it said that for rebuiling a base, a single CL would do.

Thanks!


Alan

Re: Quick Questions
 

1) Japan starts the game with 6 oil suppy. Japan oil usage number at the start is -1. So if no bases(on both sides) are captured during all of war, Japan will lose game/war in 6 months. The oil usage number changes by the capturing and making active of the following bases. A +1 for Japan for each Japanese captured base of Borneo, Java, or Singapore. A -1 for Japan for each Allied liberated base of Leyte, Luzon, or Formosa. Note: Leyte and Luzon start the game Allied, so the -1 takes effect after they fall to the Japanese and then recaptured by the Allies.

So at the end of the turn, the game looks at the status of the 6 oil bases. Then it takes all the 1s and -1s and then adds it to original oil usage number of -1. If the total is positive, it adds it to the suppy number. If the total is negitive, it subtracts it from the supply number. If total is 0, then no change to supply number.

2) I believe you have it right. The more patrolling ships the faster the base grows. Maybe just one CA/CL causes such a small increase that its hard to see on the small thin red status bar?

Thats how I understand the rules.

Re: Quick Questions
 

After rereading the Oil rules, I might have forgot something. I believe it states that the Allied capture of Formosa, Luzon, and Leyte can only cancel the effect of the Japanese capture of Borneo, Java, and Singapore. So you cannot have more -1s than +1s. So in effect, the Oil usage can never go lower than -1 (the original start value).

So with Luzon and Leyte Allied at the start(and Singapore, Java, and Borneo too), the real oil usage number should be -2. But rule comes into effect and makes it -1 at start.

Re: Quick Questions
 

All I know is that capturing Luzon does nothing to the numbers. The explanation of the oil victory condition in the game is confusing, to say the least.

In the manual, on page 6, it says:

"There are three bases that provide oil for Japan. They are Borneo, Singapore, and Java. Each one will provide one point of oil. Japan consumes one point per month, so by securing all the oil bases, you can increase your oil reserve by two per month."

This is simple enough, but it doesn't mention the three bases that subtract from Japan's supply.

I'll run a test, and see if getting Allied control of Luzon does anything to the numbers.


Alan

Re: Quick Questions
 

Okay, so after turn one was over, I sent the Allied Convoy from the West Coast to Luzon. A green line showed, so according to the manual the convoy should get to Luzon.

Resolving the turn, Luzon hasn't grown a bit, and there is no message stating that Luzon got any bigger.

I tried a second time with the same results. On the third try I sent the Convoy from the West Coast to Luzon along with some other ships from Singapore.

Luzon didn't seem to grow one bit. For the fourth turn I again sent the Convoy in a TF to Luzon, this time creating another TF with one Light Cruiser.

The CL arrived in Luzon and stayed there. The Convoy had no affect on supplies.

This all doesn't seem right.


Alan

Re: Quick Questions
 

Luzon is in a "hornet's nest" of Japanese bases. I believe that proximity to Japanese bases affect the rate at which a base can build. I've noticed this same effect in other bases--the further from a Japanese base (particularly a MAJOR Japanese base) the quicker the base builds.

Re: Quick Questions
 

That sounds like something that should have been mentioned in the rulebook.......... or could also be construed as the old developers line "its not a bug its a feature."

Re: Quick Questions
 

I don't know, three Convoy trips without moving a bit in the rebuilding aspect of things? Doesn't sound right. Plus, the Allies have Singapore, a major Allied base, at least in the area. Doesn't this at least neutralize things (Singapore, though farther away from Luzon than Formosa, is actually a bigger base.)?

Later on I'll try some tests with bases closer to the West Coast and away from this "hornet's nest".

Could it possibly be that Luzon is too far from the Convoy at the Allied West Coast base to have any influence? I would say no, since the one CL that I sent from the coast to Luzon arrived and stayed.

I'll stick with the hypothesis that Luzon can never be rebuilt by the Allies, which is either a bug or a design decision. I can't actually run any more Convoy trips to Luzon; the game will end because of Japan's oil situation. I can maybe run one more trip than I've tried so far, I think, but that's it.


Alan

Re: Quick Questions
 

Also, you must notice the Luzon is very far form West Coast. Distance affects effectiveness of TFs, maybe it has the same effect on convoys ? That being said, if you try to supply some closer base than Luzon, convoys are efficient.

Patrolling bases with a small single ship TF also has some effect, although pretty slow. At least I had some results with the Japanese. I've not checked yet for Allies.

As for the oil victory condition : Leyte has to be conquered before Japan is allowed to attack Borneo. Once you control Borneo, you have to repair the base and make it functionnal one full turn before the +1 oil bonus comes. But as long as Allies control Leyte (-1 oil), your -1 overall malus remains. You'll have to capture and repair Borneo or to capture Leyte before your oil supply rate switches to 0. But if my memories are right, if Allies re-capture Leyte, the -1 to bonus applies again even is Leyte is not repaired to be functionnal.

And now, my question. :D

The rules state that if a population center is bombed (Ceylan, Brisbane, etc.), then the owning player must patrol this center 1-4 month with at least 25% of his navy. Okay. But what happens if he does not patrol or doesn't use enough PV for patrolling ????

Re: Quick Questions
 

[snip]

Re: Quick Questions
 

Well, in the demo I have started turns with a lot of my ships in Brisbane, or West Coast when I DID NOT mve them there the previous turn. Now that I have the game I know what happened,... the game moved them there on its on when I didnt, to fulfill the patrol requirements.

So move the ships yourself or take the chance the AI will move ships you dont want back to the population center.

Re: Quick Questions
 

Okay, I've done further tests and sending all ships from all areas to patrol Luzon does not rebuild the base one bit. I did this for four turns. Also, sending a single small ship (CL) from the West Coast to Luzon arrives and stays in Luzon. One would think that if that Light Carrier can reach Luzon from such a distance, a Convoy should be able to also, and have some affect on how large Luzon gets.

I'd have to say almost conclusively that something is wrong with Luzon, in that no matter what it can't be built up.

I did send the Convoy from the West Coast to Midway, along with some other larger ships. The base did grow, but not immediately. It took two turns.

Yes, this is the way things happen in the game. But that's not what the manual says nor what the Victory Condition explanation says in the game.

Sorry, I don't have an answer for this. :)

I know it's the weekend and all, but do the developers typically show on the forums? There are some odd things happening in this game, and some things need clarification.

I'd also like to know a little more about how new scenarios can be created. I do like this overall game engine. Now a later expansion that could add research and unit-building elements to the game would really be an improvement.

Alan

Re: Quick Questions
 

Yes, John Hawkins (designer/developer) does stop by the forums but as you pointed out it's the weekend, and please also consider that it is Christmas week. While I know War Plan Pacific is his baby I'm guessing that his organic babies also want some attention this week. ;)

I'm sure that as soon as he gets a chance he'll stop by. It's good to see everyone playing, and being interested enough to ask questions!

Re: Quick Questions
 

Well, now that my first test game with the Allies is up, I confirm that on the last turns (I'll say the 10-12 last turns), I had similar issues with
- convoys : sent to Leyte, Midway, but with no effect on the size and effectiveness of the base
- ships in port waiting to be repaired, and waiting, and waiting... I remember 2 CLs with moderate damages in a minor allied base (Port Moresby or Guadalcanal). Not a single damage point was removed after a few turns. I sent one of the ships to a major nearby base where it was repaired 2 turns later (including the turn for the travel). The other ship was also repaired at least in the base where it remained.

Eeeeeeer, you're right. But who ever reads the manuals ? :D





(just jocking :smirk:)

Re: Quick Questions
 

I received an email from John this morning that he's been without electricity because of the ice storms. I'm sure once he has a stable internet connection he'll be getting caught up and answering questions.

Re: Quick Questions
 

Sounds like he needs a convoy.
:p

Re: Quick Questions
 

One finally got through:)

We get a lot of rain up here in the Seattle area, and a little bit of snow, but not many full-fledged bilzzards, and I don't mind saying it's no fun getting caught out driving in one. But we got sort of lucky, the 90mph winds they were predicting didn't materialize, otherwise I'm sure we'd still be in the dark.

To the questions:

The oil rules: General Chaos described it right. Borneo, Java and Singapore can each add 1 oil unit if they are functional Japanese bases. This represents pumping oil from the oilfields in the area (Singapore represents Sumatra). Luzon, Leyte and Formosa each subtract one if they are functional Allied bases. This represents submarines, PT boats, etc. intercepting the tankers taking the oil back to Japan, so it can never subtract more units of oil than are actually flowing form the oil field bases. Japan also consumes one unit per month.


Building bases: Even if you send a convoy, you still need at least one warship in a TF patrolling the base for it to grow (a single CL is enough). The patrolling TF can't be sunk or forced to withdraw though, or the base won't grow.

Repairing Ships: The larger the base, the faster it will repair ships. Small bases can take forever to repair any significant damage, it's usually better to send ships to a larger base. But even major bases only have so much capacity, and if there are too many damanged ships in port, the repair capacity may be spread out and slow down how fast any one ship is repaired. Ports with several damaged ships in them will attempt to repair CVs, CVLs, BBs and BCs first, and may end up totally neglecting Crusiers until the larger ships are patched up.

Note, the ship must be In Port to be repaired. Ships in TFs do not repair (though carriers will replenish aircraft while in a TF).

Thanks, if I missed anything, please let me know,

John Hawkins
KE Studios

Re: Quick Questions
 

Okay, I tried that, sent the Convoy from the West Coast to Luzon along with a TF with one CL, and it did build the base. It took four turns to get the base to a major base (actually three, since on the first turn the Allies can't do much).

Is this rule-- that just a Convoy is not enough-- explained in the manual?

Alan

Re: Quick Questions
 

I will enter a suggestion into the database to provide more feedback about base growth.

It definitely takes time to grow a base to Major base status, even with convoys. If you keep the base patrolled, it will grow a little bit each turn. The size bar will grow, though the change in any single turn may be too subtle to notice if it doesn't cross one of the thresholds (rebuilding to minor, minor to major).

But you definitely should see the bar growing over two or three turns (with convoys at least - without convoys it will grow more slowly).

Thanks,

John Hawkins
KE Studios

Re: Quick Questions
 

Thanks for the reply. It would be nice to have numbers there, instead of the bar, or numbers somewhere. Oftentimes it is difficult to know whether a base has grown at all.

Good job on the game overall. It's very well done.


Alan

Re: Quick Questions
 

JMHawkins:

What happens when you don't observe the 25% penalty patrol requirement(after raid on a population center)?? Does the game take ships and enforce the penalty on its own ??

Thanks.

Re: Quick Questions
 

If you don't observe the 25% patrol requirment, the game will automatically reassign enough TFs to meet the requirement.

Re: Quick Questions
 

Another one :D

Japan sets a TF to raid Aleoutians from Home Island.
Yankees set a TF to raid Home Island from Aleoutians.

What happens and why ?

Does the mission type has an effet (I mean : raid vs raid, raid vs invasion, invasion vs invasion) ?

Re: Quick Questions
 

Since the moves are simultaneous, and nothing is modeled to cause "meeting engagements" along the axis of advance, I believe each one is executed independent of the other (ships passing in the night, so to speak).

Re: Quick Questions
 

That's what I would like to check. In my last try with Japan, this situation occured once and the result was : my TF did not move at all and the Allies raided Home Island (and were defeated, BTW...)

The point is that I'm not 100% sure that I didn't make any mistake in my TF orders (unlikely, of course ;) but at this point of the game, I was playing my turns pretty fast...)

If it's not my mistake, is it a regular undocumented feature, something probabilistic, or maybe a... :bug: ?