New patch soon?
 

Hi,

Just wondering when that new patch will be out?

Re: New patch soon?
 

Progress page is back up and while it does have several bugfixes and mechanic changes, there're only 3-4 new units (Signs of the Fivefold Path sounds more like a spell than a unit). Most patches have added many more.

http://ulm.illwinter.com/dom3/dom3progress.html

Re: New patch soon?
 

I'm excited about the enhancement to automatic site searching. I'm sometimes reluctant to site search early on with low-level mages because I know it will just increase the need to micromanage later, even if I need the gems now. Now I can have the best of both worlds. JK is awesome!

-Max

Re: New patch soon?
 

On the Dom 3 progress page it says for December 7th item 3 that a bug is fixed for loading "random" maps showing wrong graphic.

Will this also fix loading custom maps and getting the last map you played on instead?

I've been trying to play the world of geometry map starting a new game, and I keep getting the last custom map I played.

So I put Dom 3 on hold more or less till the patch comes out.

Re: New patch soon?
 

Whats automatic sight searching? I've always done it manually.

Re: New patch soon?
 

I believe "automatic site searching" refers to the fact that the game will auto-select a province with each casting of the a site searching spell. Sure, you are prompted to select the province and the selection process can be flawed, but it at least chooses a likely candidate for each casting.

I remember when I had to handpick each province beyond the first site searching for that round. If you weren't careful, casting dark knowledge twice could easily search the same province in a row. 3 death gems down the drain.

Note: You can automate the process by setting the mages to cast the site searching spells as monthly rituals (shift+M). These castings won't prompt you to choose a target, which is usually fine, except for the flaws in the selection process. This method won't be very helpful when you are constantly draining your gem supply or if you've searched all provinces from the previous round. It's best for catching up when you fall behind on site finding.

Re: New patch soon?
 

When you hover your mouse over a mage, you may press Shift+M to order him to cast a ritual every month. If this ritual is a site-searching one, he'll go through all the available provinces. In current version, provinces which have been searched by a low-level mage aren't considered available.

Have you tried creating a new game with a different name? The bug that's fixed only happens when the new game has the same name as the old game it replaces, AFAIK.

Re: New patch soon?
 

I don't remember that ever being the case. The flaw, back in 2007, was that when you had *monthly* castings of site search spells the first turn your mages would spread themsleves out as you describe in the first paragraph, but on the second month (i.e. the first month with no UI-based targeting of the spell) they would all pick the same province. I got around this by simply picking 20-odd mages every few turns and having them all cast the site-searching spell that month, then go back to researching. The fact that I can now just set four or five of them to cast monthly is really nice.

I don't really mind the "flaws" in the selection process because I don't even really optimize my manual site searching much. Sure I know that wastelands and swamps are supposed to be best for sites, and mountains seem to be good for earth and death, but I have never bothered to go through the site searching database and figure out exactly what the optimum order is to search each kind of terrain for each path, adjusting for province security and distance from enemy fronts. I'm pretty much happy as long as all of my provinces get completely searched eventually. In other words, I view site searching as a form of probabilistic clamming (i.e. clam-forging) which is province-limited instead of commander-limited. E.g. "spend 9 death gems per turn to increase death income by 0 to 2 gems per turn," without bothering to compute exactly what my likely return is going to be.

YMMV though. Some people don't like automatic site-searching at all, and if I have multi-path mages I may do all manual searching until my gem income gets pretty large.

-Max

Re: New patch soon?
 

The flaws I'm refering to is that some provinces don't seem to be searched even though manually choosing the province will yield sites. Also, on occassion my mages will select my capitol even though their are other sites left to search. Maybe you never encountered this or you just haven't noticed.

Personally, I don't optimize my manual selections that way either.

Re: New patch soon?
 

The algorithm is that a site-search spell for path X will target the first-numbered province which has not been searched at all for path X and does not already have two or more sites discovered in it. The new patch will apparently go back and revisit these "skipped" provinces (presumably still skipping them if they have already been site-searched at level 4--note that IIRC there are no Air-4 sites so this will technically be suboptimal for some paths unless you have extra sites modded in, but I'm okay with this). When your capitol gets searched it is because your nation has only one magic site in the capitol. thejeff has posted a mod which adds extra sites (with no gems, only some flavor text) to several nations in MA in order to avoid this problem.

-Max

Re: New patch soon?
 

Even all of that still doesn't explain why some locations that don't have any magic sites found are skipped yet contain magic sites when manually selected and searched. I suppose this will still occur even after the next patch is released.

Re: New patch soon?
 

Sure it does, unless there are facts you're not telling me. Consider a hypothetical province Green Gallows, which has zero discovered sites, and one undiscovered level 3 death site. If I have searched manually with a D2 mage in Green Gallows, when I monthly-cast Dark Knowledge the automatic site-searching algorithm I outlined will skip Green Gallows because it's been partially searched already for D. The patch enhancement will make it go back and search Green Gallows after all the "prime" locations have been searched. This makes sense because a totally "fresh" province with no discovered sites and no Death searches yet is more likely to have a Death site than Green Gallows is (because a fresh province may produce a D1, D2, D3, or D4 site, whereas Green Gallows will yield only a D3 or D4 site. The number of discovered sites matters because it's relatively improbable to discover a D site in a province which is already known to have e.g. 2 air sites, since the average total number of sites in a province is only about 2 anyway, depending upon what site frequency you are playing with and what the terrain type is). If you crank the math, the site-searching algorithm is already a pretty good rule of thumb for searching. But Green Gallows is not a worthless province even if it is less probable, and in fact we already know that it *does* have a D3 site, so the enhanced algorithm will eventually get around to finding the hidden site.

-Max

Re: New patch soon?
 

There is an Air-4 site which is plains-only. Fire-4 sites are waste or cave only.

Your capitol is also currently targeted for search if your mage is in the capitol and finds no other valid targets. It would be nice if the automatic search spells just didn't cast when there are no targets, instead of targeting the current province.

edit You're talking to fast for me to keep up. :) I though the patch will re-target provinces that have 2 or 3 discovered sites, not provinces that have already been manually searched for the path.

Re: New patch soon?
 

Well, I guess we'll find out. AFAIK JK hasn't said anything except what's on the progress page,

"* Monthly site searching with spells stopped targeting when no more prime suspects were available. Now it will go through the less likely locations as well after the good once are searched."

Come the patch, there will now be three categories of provinces: search-ASAP, search-later (new category), and don't-search. Only JK knows for sure which things are getting moved from the don't-search category to the newly-created search-later. It sounded to me like partly-searched provinces would go to search-later but obviously it's possible to read it both ways.
-Max

Re: New patch soon?
 

These instances of provinces being passed over have occured when I only site search with spells. Therefore your explaination does not explain what I've encountered. I've already observed the behavior you speak of and accounted for that.

Re: New patch soon?
 

Yes renaming did nothing to help.
I have no issues if I want to use a random generated map,generated by the game. I have an issue if I try to load ANY custom made map. They don't want to load. I can see the map previewed before but then in the game its a completely different map. I have issues if I try to use maps generated by RAN DOM,where the proper map isnt loading ,alot like the custom map problem. So I guess this won't be fixed, thats a drag.
I can see my Dom 3 usage going down. Whats the point in having all these pre made maps if you can't use any of them?

Re: New patch soon?
 

just restart dominions and it should fix it.

Re: New patch soon?
 

Okay, those are the facts you didn't mention before. :) I don't know, that's kind of weird. Are there any more details you can offer? Do you see this frequently? What are some example provinces that you've seen it happen to, and what sites did they have already, what paths had been searched and to what level, what site search spell were you casting? How long had you owned these provinces? (Maybe information about manual searches from another nation is somehow "leaking" into your own? That would be a bug.)

You might want to write that up for the bug thread.

-Max

Re: New patch soon?
 

Did you mean "reinstall"? If that doesn't work, contact Shrapnel tech support because there's something wrong on your computer. Shrapnel tech support is pretty good and should be able to help you well before the next patch comes out.

-Max

Re: New patch soon?
 

I went ahead and reinstalled it.
I began having these problem's right after I installed RAN DOM,so maybe that corrupted my install somehow.

Hopefully it will work right now. As I said before the game would work, but only if I use a game generated random map.

Re: New patch soon?
 

Note: The cases listed below are bypassed by all site searching spells, not just one or two. This tends to be a trend with this particular bug. They have also always been this way. Both before and after sites were found there. If they were searched by a spell it was manually selected.

Search status key: [F:A:W:E:S:D:N:B:H]

In the MP game Standards:
-Province Dumna (106). It was originally in the possession of Ry'leh. I haven't bothered to search it and so it's search status is [0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0]. Contains Brigand lair and Chitterpalm Oasis.
-Province Tapanete (120). I have owned it the entire game as it borders my cap. Search status is [9:9:9:0:0:0:9:0:3]. Contains Weeping Stones and Grove of Evergreens.
-Province Hamane (194). I have traded this province with Pangaea and Ry'leh regularly. I have owned it the majority and was a constant war zone. Search status is [0:0:0:0:0:0:9:0:2]. Contains Shambler Reef and Ancient Temple.

In the MP game Revenge of Pimpin:
-Province Aenasia (294). It has been out of my possession once and that was from an indy event. Search status is [9:9:0:0:9:0:9:0:2]. Contains Grove of Evergreens and Desert of Bones.

I'm sure I can relocate more of these if I put some time into it. I think there is a least one in the Collider game I'm playing. I'm actually really into that game and I don't want to publicly scout out my own provinces for my enemies.

Re: New patch soon?
 

Not sure what the bug is? I mean, site searching spells have always bypassed any province with 2+ sites, whether they are level 0, worthless, what have you.

I am really hoping that the new behavior targets not only those that have not been searched at level 4+, but also those that contain 2 provinces already (as well as not ever casting on capitals!). Though I very very rarely do manual searches anymore, so I am mostly hoping for the 2 sites change. :P

Re: New patch soon?
 

Jim is right, these are all covered by the rules cited earlier. They have 2 sites already and are considered non-prime. The way I read JK's note, they will be searched in the next patch as long as there are no "prime" provinces for the path in question (i.e. not searched yet in that path and less than 2 sites known) to take priority.

-Max

Re: New patch soon?
 

What a strange coincidence! I wrote "2 or 3 discovered provinces" myself, before I spotted the typo in my post above.

Anyway, I can't resist micromanaging my site searching in MP, and in the beginning of my SP games. It will take something like Endo's new site mod to make me give up and just use the monthly rituals.

Re: New patch soon?
 

Yeah, I've done it too, three or four times in this thread, although I think I've edited them all away by now. :)

-Max

Re: New patch soon?
 

AoE: As others have stated, the issue you refer to does not seem to be outside the bounds of the currently-known algorithm's decision profile.

Something that I do not know (but would like to know) is if the algorithm will site-search a province with a path if an opponent has site-searched that province with that path. E.g., I believe Chitterpalm Oasis is not a 0-level water site; i.e., it must be searched for. Since you have not searched for it, and R'lyeh easily can search for it, it stands to reason that R'lyeh did in fact find it. If this is all true, I would like to know if a casting of Voice of Apsu (on auto-cast) will target this province. Assume for the sake of argument that the Oasis is the only site in the province found thus far. (This is a slight change from AoE's example.)

Re: New patch soon?
 

Currently, if there is only one discovered site in a province, that province will be targeted by all automatic site-searching spells. Even if it's a W-4 site, which means there can't possibly be any more water sites, and you're casting Voice of Aspu.

Re: New patch soon?
 

I'm apparently much better at reading your words then you are at reading mine. This is the part of the formula you say answers the question.

This is the part where I insist that this is not the case.

I am 100% certain that site search was switched off for Tapanete (120) and Aenasia (294) before sites were discovered. I didn't bother to present any other locations because it is tedious and because I wanted to use example locations where sites were found spite the games desire to pass them up.

Re: New patch soon?
 

I've seen what aoe is talking about as well.

Re: New patch soon?
 

So we have to wait all the way till next year before getting a new patch? :)

Re: New patch soon?
 

I'm sorry to have pushed your buttons. Please remember that you have an order of magnitude more data than I do about your situation; I only know what you post. The algorithm still obviously applies to Province Dumna, because it has two sites and there is no "before sites were found" since you never searched it (it's 0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0). Province Tapanete, Hamane, and Aenasia: you're saying that these were *never* auto-targeted even when there were zero known sites (1 known site in the case of Hamane). I would write that up in the bug discussion thread.

-Max

Re: New patch soon?
 

As much as I would love to see this stuff, looking at the progress page and the space of time between patch releases I would say its abit early for anything other than a "pretty please" request for anything real soon.

Re: New patch soon?
 

Gandalf,

Yeah, true. I was slavering over the last fix to monthly site searching for weeks (months?) before it got released. Since I only play about 1 turn of Dominions per day lately, though, waiting a month isn't a big deal for me.

-Max

Re: New patch soon?
 

You didn't push any buttons and I'm sure that maybe only half of my examples are actually cases where the algorithm fails.

Still, after all that, I feel that my first statement way back in the beginning is legitimate. The part where I said the selection is a bit flawed, which is separate from saying it is broken by the way.

As for the patch, I can stand to wait if it means it will be loaded with a handful of more goodies. Nothing on that list screams "gotta have it!"

Re: New patch soon?
 

Turns out I had a corrupt installation. After I re-installed the game and patched to latest version,it works fine.
So I can wait as long as it takes for a patch because the games not bugged,it was corrupted by the RanDom program somehow.

I'm back in buisness.

Re: New patch soon?
 

@Skirmisher,

That's great! I'm glad it worked.

-Max

Re: New patch soon?
 

:up:

Re: New patch soon?
 

Good to know so we can tell others when they have the same problem

Re: New patch soon?
 

This is great news! :ham:
Thanks KO and JK !!

Re: New patch soon?
 

At last we can see oriental dragon king and their minions!!!:fire:

Re: New patch soon?
 

*Rock Lobster
*Crab People
*Tentacle Toes
*Street Urchin


>.>

Re: New patch soon?
 

A Rock Lobster! The Rock Iguana's natural enemy. :shock:
http://i40.tinypic.com/287iuxs.jpg

Re: New patch soon?
 

I am now feeling it unfair to give Jomon so much enchancement. Heck, what they have got alone can be turned into a brand new race.

How about another nation with good amphibian capability based on oriental myth?

Re: New patch soon?
 

How is it 'unfair'? I don't get it :/

You mean it's not fair to cultures other than Japan?

Re: New patch soon?
 

I was thinking that might be a sign of an LA Oceania

Re: New patch soon?
 

Ryujin is for Jomon but what are the others ?

-neutral critters ?
-aquatic summons ?
-new nation of angry crustaceans ?

Re: New patch soon?
 

I believe the shrimp soldiers and crab generals come from Tien Chi's myths.

Re: New patch soon?
 

I thought we have right now many other nations with very little changes back to the release of Dom3. It's always good to add new contents into an existing race, but to some scale they could be so rich that we feel that favored race like a star while other nations are of less fun.
Further more, each nation has its gem limited, which means too many national summons will eventually make parts of them like niche ones. I thought that could be a waste.

Hmmm... I know I should always try improving my English. Hope that havenot made trouble with others.

Re: New patch soon?
 

No your English was fine BesucherXia, I just didn't see why you felt it was unfair.

I agree that certain nations are a lot 'richer' than others. Compare Lanka, for instance, with Vanheim or Utgard. Or Tienchi with Midgard.

Re: New patch soon?
 

Well in many people's eyes, all that Jomon even has right now, is the "fun", if even that. These summons aren't supposed to add fun, but add punch to what is widely considered one of the weakest nations in the game.