First Post: Introduction and Request For Help Getting Up To Speed
 

Hi, I'm, Mark Mayhugh. I just discovered Dominion 3 a couple of weeks ago, and am trying to get it figured out a bit. I am a big fan of PBEM games and turn-based strategy games in general. My first serious PBEM game was Fantasy War about 15 years ago, which reminds me a lot of Dominion 3, with simultaneous turns, although far less complex. Unfortunately, they went out of business a couple of years after starting. (Not to be confused with the current Fantasy Wars, which does not have simultaneous turns, and is still published.) I am very active in Alpha Centauri multiplayer games, which in my opinion is still the best Civ-sytle game, far better than the much newer Civ 4: BTS. If you have not tried Alpha Centauri, you should check it out. And my other current favorite is HOMM 5, a superb turn based game.

I am hoping to get some help getting up to speed. I have gathered some resources from the strategy link, including dom3_db and dom3 forging reference project, which are great pieces of work; my thanks to the authors. I would greatly appreciate pointers to good other information.

I am not looking for strategy help at this point; I am looking strictly for information. If there is some strategy mixed in with the information, that is fine, but I would really rather figure some strategies out for myself. What I don't want to do is waste a lot of time experimenting because I can't find any information about something. I don't want to figure out information for myself if I can avoid it; I would rather spend that time working on strategy.

In addition to useful links to information, I have some specific questions I hope someone can help with:

1. dom3_db_320_status.xls gives me a dialog "file error: data may have been lost" when I hope it with Excel 2003. Do other people get this error? dom3_db_320.ods opens fine with open office, so I can just use that, so it is not a big deal.

2. Does Master Alchemist pretender actually confer any kind of alchemy bonus? Do alchemy bonuses make gem to gem conversion more efficient, or only gem to gold?

3. Does alchemy (or can anything else) reduce the cost for empowerment?

4. Is there any way to actually use the Jaguar pretender? It does not seem to be available for any nation or age.

5. Has anyone done a Magic Path Boosting spreadsheet containing the information on pages 283-284 of the manual? It is only a couple of pages, but I would rather not type it in myself if I don't have to. I want to sort it out in some various ways, which requires a spreadsheet.

I have lots more questions, but this post is getting rather long, so I will save them for later. Thanks in advance for any help!

Re: First Post: Introduction and Request For Help Getting Up To Speed
 

1) Dunno
2) gem to gold
3) Haha, that would make it actually good.
4) Smoke Mirror Jaguar one? That's Mictlan
5) Probably if you search around.

Re: First Post: Introduction and Request For Help Getting Up To Speed
 

Welcome Mark, and Happy New Year! Glad you find the forging reference helpful.

1. "file error: data may have been lost" - I get this every time. Not sure why, but it still seems to be complete.

2. Master Alchemist - Yes, there's a gem --> gold benefit, but no gem --> gem benefit. A very niche pretender, I understand.

3. empowerment - No, unfortunately nothing helps with empowerment, but I've heard one of the heroes gets some kind of empowerment bonus...for example, it's only 30 gems to empower to level 3, etc. Maybe someone can confirm?

4. Jaguar pretender - Out of my pay grade. Anyone?

5. Magic Path Boosting spreadsheet - I don't believe there are any formal documents, but the boosts are listed in Edi's fantastic dom3_db, so I usually just use the "Filter" in Excel to find what I need. DEFINITELY checkout sector24's awesome Booster Guide. But you'll have all those boosters memorized in short order anyways :D

As far as other information sources, if you've found the strat index, you're in the right place. Snoddasmannan's web version of DrPraetorious's spell database isn't to be missed. Hidden tomes of knowledge include Edi's Better Independant's mod, which is a great guide to which indys are good and which should be avoided, and QM's CBM mod, which does that for everything.

But really, Dom3 is a baptism by fire game. Dive into MP! There's no better way to learn it. :)

Re: First Post: Introduction and Request For Help Getting Up To Speed
 

I agree with Cleveasaur. Learn by doing!

Also if there's anything specific, there's the IRC channel and the forums. Asking a question that's already been answered (fairly) recently can annoy people on the forums though, particularly if the information is laid out pretty clearly in one of the manuals.

You might also want to check out the "lies my manual told me" thread.

Re: First Post: Introduction and Request For Help Getting Up To Speed
 

3. Hero bonus to empowerment:
A MA Eriu hero, I think it was Lugh the Silver-Handed, has innate magic bonus 1. This means that if he has level 1 in Air magic, the innate bonus boosts it into 2. This affects all his paths, so empowerment is cheaper, and empowering in a new path might also be more useful. This is all from memory, so don't base your strategy around it.

4. Smoking Mirror is Mictlan-only pretender, probably only Early and Late ages.

Re: First Post: Introduction and Request For Help Getting Up To Speed
 

Information: Do you own the full game yet or are you playing with the demo? The full game comes with a manual that has lots of good information on the exact formulas for computing missile fire, what Morale means, how MR works, etc.

Also, you might want to check out the "Did you know that... (Dominions trivia)" thread.

-Max

Re: First Post: Introduction and Request For Help Getting Up To Speed
 

And of course dragons and Chayot have the exact opposite problem, although only for certain paths. Getting an S4 Chayot to S4E2 costs 135 Earth gems instead of the normal 80. Same thing trying to boost a dragon in its primary path, IIRC, because the human form is the base and the dragon form has negative magicboost.

-Max

Re: First Post: Introduction and Request For Help Getting Up To Speed
 

lol I find it funny that someone who has the game a few weeks does know about a pretender he's never even seen to ask about in the forum, but that might just be me :D. I guess he got it out of the DB but still I'd play the game a few dozen times befor bothering with that (I actually only need it for modding really.)

I didn't know there where creatures in vanilla game with negative magic boost... I find it very funny dragons are one of them though since it's dragons I gave a bonus in my mod.

Re: First Post: Introduction and Request For Help Getting Up To Speed
 

He sounds like a fast burner.

Welcome aboard Mark.
And dont sweat the questions. Not everyone is bothered by them. :)

Re: First Post: Introduction and Request For Help Getting Up To Speed
 

Well it was mentioned but noone in here was bothered by them sofar right?
Sombre just had a good advice.. I do think you should ask all questions in this (or the remainder in the next) thread else there will be zillions of threads.

Re: First Post: Introduction and Request For Help Getting Up To Speed
 

Thanks for the quick answers! The booster guide and spell index were especially helpful!

As for the Jaguar (858), I was browsing Pretenders in the dom_db to decide which ones I wanted to try first. The Jaguar caught my eye, but then it seems there was no nation for which the Jaguar is available.

My latest bit of comedy for those who want a laugh was trying the Arch Druid. I had planned a magic path based on putting on Earth Boots to get to Earth 3, only to find that he would not take them. Turns out he can't wear any footwear. That is something I didn't find written anywhere. Even though he rides a horse, I fail to see the logic of why that would keep him from wearing some boots. I still like the Arch Druid, even if he does not have feet :)

Anyway, I am playing a few games with the AI to get up to speed, and will save my other questions until I have played and studied a bit more. I look forward to playing some multiplayer, but not until I have at least gotten a good enough grasp of the game to beat the AI consistently. I feel it is a waste of other players' time for a newbie who has not even mastered the basics to occupy a slot in a game with real players.

Re: First Post: Introduction and Request For Help Getting Up To Speed
 

You will find that frequently people start newbie games for people who don't have much multiplayer experience, many of the people in these games have been registered on the forum for a month or less before playing and experience levels vary wildly. They may even be playing their first game of dom3. A basic understanding of how the game works is pretty much enough to play in one of those newbie games, though in doing so you will almost undoubtedly lose :) But don't take losing too seriously in this game, with potentially dozens of pretenders in a single game, just surviving the first few years can be a feat in and of itself.

Re: First Post: Introduction and Request For Help Getting Up To Speed
 

Even though the mount is not explicitly modeled (in most cases at least), mounted commanders differ from regular commanders in several ways:

1.) They can't wear magic boots,
2.) Their melee encumbrance is not affected by the shields or armor they wear,
3.) They get an extra +3 to defense.

#2 and #3 are positive, #1 is negative. In some cases, the mount sticks around and fights for you after the rider is dead (most mounts are upkeep-free, i.e. goldcost per turn is 0, but their MR is usually pretty poor too). Some mounts stick around only for the duration of the battle (Serpent Cataphract mounts and those lobster rider guys that R'lyeh or Oceania has), others stick around until they get killed (Machakan spider-rider mounts).

Anyway, the slots on a pretender are sometimes an important consideration. One major difference between a lich and a master lich, for example, is that a master lich has 3 misc slots, which is sometimes the difference between needing to buy an extra level of magic in order to cast a certain spell (e.g. Arcane Nexus) vs. being able to plan to just stick on another booster. And as the manual points out, you don't want to plan to use a skull staff to cast Utterdark and then find that you picked a Monolith with no hands.

-Max

Re: First Post: Introduction and Request For Help Getting Up To Speed
 

The Dom3 DB error you get with Excel is because the file was saved to Excel format in Open Office. If you open it with Excel, you get the error. Once you save the file in Excel, the error goes away permanently.

As far as the jaguar pretender, that's the alternate, shapechanged form of the Smoking Mirror pretender that EA and LA Mictlan have available. There is no purely jaguar pretender available for any nation.

Re: First Post: Introduction and Request For Help Getting Up To Speed
 

That is good to know! Do you know of anything that documents what slots are available on which pretenders?

A couple more quick questions if you don't mind:

1. I made the Chalice because I have some diseased crones. I equipped the Chalice, but the crone is still diseased. Is there something I need to do to invoke the power of the Chalice? Is there a better way to heal my diseased crones before they die?

2. From what I read, Longbowmen are supposed to be amazing archers. But I have two squads of 40 archers that maybe damage 2-3 enemy per turn, and not very heavy damage at that. It seems that ranged units are not very effective, even against unarmored barbarians. Are my expectations too high?

3. Is there something that can be equipped that improves that stats of the units under a leader's command, other than a standard?

Re: First Post: Introduction and Request For Help Getting Up To Speed
 

Edi's DB has all unit slots documented in the 'All Units' tab. Pretender IDs are in the 'Pretender Summary' tab.

1. It takes a while for afflictions to heal, even using the Chalice. There's nothing else you need to do with the Chalice other than have someone in the province wield it. Casting Gift of Health in addition will speed up old age affliction removal.

2. Have some high-defense shield-wielding units stop the advance of the barbarians and let the archers shoot the barbarians for a few more rounds.

3. In general, no. The Sword of Aurgelmer gives luck to all your troops. Underwater, the Wave Breaker trident improves stats. The Sword of Injustice improves MR for Ermor.

Re: First Post: Introduction and Request For Help Getting Up To Speed
 

Edi's database does, iirc.

1. Read the healing section in the faq at the top of this forum.

2. I don't believe 80 archers are doing that little damage against unarmoured barbarians. They should be absolutely shredding them. Please give a different example - what you expected to happen and what did happen.

3. Nope. The standard /ability/ increases morale of troops, that's all. There are various spells to improve troops, but not passive abilities, unless there's some weird case KO and JK put in for kicks.

Re: First Post: Introduction and Request For Help Getting Up To Speed
 

Are your archers getting a clear view of the enemy? If your eyesight were down to their level would you be looking at the back of your infantry? Using the formats screen to set the archers off to the side seems to help, and it helps in avoiding friendly fire. But dont put them up equal to your frontline or they draw too much attention.

As to playing the AI prior to MP, be sure to try all the nations abit. They each have pros and cons. Most of them will seem weak if their advantages dont match things you would make use of. Finding the nation which best matches your playing style will make a difference in MP games.

Re: First Post: Introduction and Request For Help Getting Up To Speed
 

I don't believe this actually makes any difference. Has anyone else observed this? Obviously if by moving them you decrease the distance to the target they'll be more accurate and if Dom3 only allowed arrows to miss by falling short or going long (based on the actual trajectory) there would be less friendly fire,... but I can't see it.

Re: First Post: Introduction and Request For Help Getting Up To Speed
 

If the archers are firing at heavy infantry with shields, then it is not unexpected to see only a couple of the infantry taking damage each salvo. If you are firing at barbarians or other unshielded and unarmored units, then you should see a many more units taking damage, though you still might not break the barbarians before they reach your lines.

In general, archery isn't that great, since it has a propensity for friendly fire and can be tricked by decoys. It's main use is against expensive, high defense units (Mictlan's Jaguar warriors for example). If you want to kill things at a distance, start trying out the mages!

Re: First Post: Introduction and Request For Help Getting Up To Speed
 

As vfb said, it does help if you use other (shielded) units to block them long enough for the archers to hit them at point-blank range. Even so, unless you're hitting low-Prot + unshielded targets like barbarians, archers are less for killing things than softening them up and routing them. 80 longbowmen are likely to damage 50 heavy infantry moreso than kill 20 of them, and the routing algorithm pays a lot of attention to who is at partial HP.

Wind Guide and Fire Arrows improve longbowmen significantly. Overall, though, I think your expectations are too high because longbowmen are not so much "amazing" archers as the best archers available. (Well, crossbowmen are better in some cases.) They still have to hit a square with an enemy, and win the dodge check, and do more damage than he has Prot, in order to do even 1 point of HP damage. Generally that's less damage per longbowman than you would get out of a foot soldier with a mace or something--although longbowmen also scale better.

-Max

Re: First Post: Introduction and Request For Help Getting Up To Speed
 

Thanks for pointing out that the dom3_db documents item slots in AllUnits. I had looked in Pretender Summary, which did not have the info.

Suddenly, some pretenders are looking more interesting, like the Crone with 4 misc slots. Before seeing this, I was not sure why anyone would ever pick the Crone. Anyway, the slots are important to know to plan appropriately. I ended up having to use Empowerment to boost Earth in my current game because my plan was based on using boots to boost Earth on an Arch Druid with no feet slot.

As for archers, I noticed in several battles that they were not having that much of an effect on the battle compared to melee units. When I attacked an independent with 20 barbs and a commander, I paid close attention because I wanted to see the effect of weak armor. My 80 archers only damaged 5 units before they got into melee range, which I thought was pretty poor performance. Once in melee range, they were decimated so quickly I could not tell if the damage was from archery or my melee troops.

Other battles against larger forces (usually armored), even at close range the archers seem far less of a factor than my melee troops. Just my initial observations as a newbie.

Re: First Post: Introduction and Request For Help Getting Up To Speed
 

Partly, it's about scale. Arrows scatter, even if your precision is pretty good, and so 80 barbarians would have taken more damage than 20 barbarians did. (As an experiment, try adding various amounts of Barbarians, or Longbowmen, to your battle replays w/ Shift+'U'.) Still, it's not surprising that melee troops did more damage.

On the other hand, melee troops take fatigue from encumbrance, as well as HP damage from enemy melee units. As fatigue goes up, effective attack and defense skill go down and you also become more vulnerable to missile fire. Sometimes PD + archers can be much stronger than just PD by itself.

-Max

Re: First Post: Introduction and Request For Help Getting Up To Speed
 

One benefit to the crone pretender is that she's very cheap. She's also the only mobile 0 point pretender chassis. This makes her a choice for an imprisoned bless pretender, an economy awake rainbow pretender for site searching, something like that.

I've never really been that fond of archers in dominions, personally. You do tend to get much better results using infantry, but archers are useful in large battles for the reasons maxwilson stated, and they are useful on low armor units. I do tend to find them absolutely useless on heavily armored, shielded troops though (heavy infantry). You can try using crossbowmen, but I dislike them even more than archers. The reason being, I tend to use a lot of heavy infantry myself, and I usually end up taking as much damage from my crossbows as the enemy does. All that said, what this means is I usually only use archers if my enemy is fielding lots of low armor units and I'm using lots of heavily armored units, and I try to shoot whatever looks easiest to damage. Casting wind guide can help a lot with archer effectiveness, if you want to get the most out of them.

Re: First Post: Introduction and Request For Help Getting Up To Speed
 

As an example of archers: in one game that I'm playing right now, as Ashdod, I happen to be fighting EA Agartha, EA Ermor, and EA Marverni simultaneously. My heavy troops (Ahimans) are all tied up in expansion parties, but my best location for a second castle also happens to be right on Agartha's border. Agartha's troops are pretty weak, but they can cast some nasty Earth Elementals and such, so I don't want to rely exclusively on cranking up the PD. Since Agartha's troops are shieldless and mine aren't, it's was a pretty simple matter to produce a moderate handful of (2 res) slingers and set them to help the PD. So far that's kept Agartha out of some provinces that they might otherwise have taken.

On the other hand, against Ermor's tower shields missile troops are totally useless.

-Max

P.S. Archers, especially low-precision "archers" like slingers, are sometimes quite good at "accidentally" killing off enemy mages. It's not something you can count on but it can be a nice surprise.

Re: First Post: Introduction and Request For Help Getting Up To Speed
 

OK, I need to run some longer battles where encumbrance/fatigue is an issue to see how the archer situation improves. Problem is, once I get in melee range, the battles rarely last very many rounds.

Is there a way in a single player vs AI game to save a checkpoint that I can go back to? (I realize this would be gross cheating with other real players involved.)

I want to try out a lot of things as quickly as possible, and this would be much easier if I could try something, then go back to an earlier position to try something else.

Re: First Post: Introduction and Request For Help Getting Up To Speed
 

You can just copy the saved game files. Although honestly Shift+U and/or Shift+K (kill the unit the mouse cursor is over) is often the fastest way to test a strategy vs. multiple different opponents.

-Max

Re: First Post: Introduction and Request For Help Getting Up To Speed
 

You can copy the the savegame folder in between turns to a backup folder, then go back and rerun the turn by retrieving the files from there and rehosting.

Re: First Post: Introduction and Request For Help Getting Up To Speed
 

If it hasn't been mentioned yet, archers alone may suck, but archers cmoplementing infantry or infantry guarding archers work much better against most enemies.

MA Ulm, as an example, can choose between high-prot and even-higher-prot units with and without shields. They don't want to use their national archers (with crossbows or arbalests, which are even heavier than normal crossbows), but if they can get some indy shortbows to complement their infantry, you'll quickly see a vast improvement in their performance. The high-prot infantry can mostly ignore the archers, and anything that they tie up will be constantly peppered by the arrows.


Barbarians can be absolutely devastating. They deal so much damage so quickly that they can often cause severe losses to early conquering forces even when you win, and if the barbarians cause a rout their quick speed means that they will often kill many of the retreating force as well. Archers work well against barbarians if you can keep them occupied for a few turns. A small squad of any lght infantry or militia will slow the barbarians for a turn or two, and your normal archer-bodyguard squad of shielded medium-to-heavy infantries will hopefully not take too much damage before the archers cause enough damage to rout/kill the barbarians.

Re: First Post: Introduction and Request For Help Getting Up To Speed
 

There are a number of options.
If you are Windows then I have created a simple desktop icon that you can click to make backup copies of all your games at once.

And I have a BattleSim map where you can edit the ascii file to place units in provinces next to each other, set their formations and scripts, then have them attack. To reset them back just start a new game with the same BattleSim map. To try different units just edit the .map file to change the starter units then start a new game with that map.

Both can be found here...
http://www.dom3minions.com/utilities.htm

There are other backup and restore schemes done with more features and various programming languages. Such as this one in Python.
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com//showthread.php?t=31522

Re: First Post: Introduction and Request For Help Getting Up To Speed
 

Thanks for the links! I got the backup working fine.

BattleSim looks like it would be incredibly useful, but I could not figure out how to use it. Can you point me to a thread on this?

Re: First Post: Introduction and Request For Help Getting Up To Speed
 

Yeah I really should include a doc file with it.

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=41727

Re: First Post: Introduction and Request For Help Getting Up To Speed
 

Is there a guide of some kind of features or tools to help with micromanagement? For example, is there a way to make a forge command continue until there are no resources left, for example, forging Owl Quills until there are no air gems left, instead of going back to Defend every turn. Or at least a way to macro a command like one can do with battle order? Is there a way to set the default for a type of unit, so instead of defaulting to Defend, it defaults to Research or Patrol? Is there a way to set a default recruitment? I really like the depth of Dominion 3, but this micromanagement every turn is annoying.

Re: First Post: Introduction and Request For Help Getting Up To Speed
 

There is no monthly forge, but there is monthly ritual-casting. Monthly forging has been in the wishlists for a long time now, so you're not the first to notice it's missing. Many of the other suggestions haven't been mentioned before. Pity you didn't take part in the betatest, since then your suggestions would have had a much better chance of being implemented.



Some of these might already be mentioned in this thread, but I'll mention them any way.

There are keyboard shortcuts for research, patrol, blood hunting etc that are much, much faster than setting them the usual way. Hover mouse over a commander and press Shift+M for monthly casting, Shift+P for preach, Shift+R for research etc etc. Press ? to see list of keyboard commands (it might be missing few).

To recruit lots of units fast, hold shift while you select a unit. This adds ten units of the same type to the recruitment queue. You can also open the recruitment screen by pressing 'r' in the main map view, and exit it by pressing Esc. Esc exits most screens.

Pressing 'n' will cycle through the commanders that are on "defend" or "hide". This is a fast way to go through commanders that need new orders.

In battkes, pressing 'f' will make battles run faster, pressing 'n' will skip a round.

Re: First Post: Introduction and Request For Help Getting Up To Speed
 

For recruitment, it's sometimes useful to pay in advance for troops that cost a lot of resources, as opposed to gold. Just come back and collect them once every few turns. For ritual spells, use the "M" command. For the rest, you have to rely on "N" to scroll through commanders without active orders--yes, monthly Forge would be nice.

BTW, don't forget that you can hit Tab to make researchers disappear from the battle setup screen. Occasionally this is useful. Also, 'y' to see which of your troops are moving in to a province.

-Max

Re: First Post: Introduction and Request For Help Getting Up To Speed
 

The only fairly complete hotkey list Ive found is on the wiki
http://dom3.servegame.com/wiki/Hotkey

Other than those you might consider getting a macro program which will let you create your own hotkeys to fill in for the hotkeys that you feel are lacking.

Re: First Post: Introduction and Request For Help Getting Up To Speed
 

Is this true? People often claim it is, but I want proof.

Re: First Post: Introduction and Request For Help Getting Up To Speed
 

It's true, I use it frequently when my labs get full of mages and I'm trying to find that lone commander sitting there waiting to have units handed to him.

Re: First Post: Introduction and Request For Help Getting Up To Speed
 

Oh, very cool! 'Tab' on the main map just toggles the province names on while you hold it down (if they are off), but in the 't'/'y' battle setup, 'Tab' toggles the researchers on and off. It is actually most useful when you are Move-Patrolling back to a fort to defend it, IMO.

Re: First Post: Introduction and Request For Help Getting Up To Speed
 

[baffled look] I don't know how to parse this. On the internet, there is no proof aside from peoples' claims. On your own machine, proof is trivial (just do it)--but I can't give you that proof, you have to do it manually.

-Max

Re: First Post: Introduction and Request For Help Getting Up To Speed
 

Re: First Post: Introduction and Request For Help Getting Up To Speed
 

I think the biggest problem with that key has been clarity.
People try it and it doesnt do what was claimed because its often not as clear as its been stated in this thread about which result you will get in which screen.

Re: First Post: Introduction and Request For Help Getting Up To Speed
 

Thanks vfb! Very useful.

Max: I didn't see the words 'battle setup', probably because I've tested the tab thing multiple times before with no joy when people claimed it worked, without specifying it only works in battle setup. Like Gandalf said, a string of people who weren't being very clear.

Re: First Post: Introduction and Request For Help Getting Up To Speed
 

Thanks for the tips! The hotkey list was VERY useful. Although I was using many of the hotkeys, the ones I was not using, the n, tab, and f keys, are helping a lot!

I typed the Magic Path Boosting Chart on manual pages 283-284 into an Excel spreadsheet for ease of manipulation. I also created a version of the table sorted more to my liking, colorized, with some notes. I want to post these two spreadsheets to give back to the Dominions 3 community, but since the material is copyrighted, I need to find out how to get permission from the copyright holder to post them. Does someone know who/where to ask to get permission to post such material?

Re: First Post: Introduction and Request For Help Getting Up To Speed
 

Edi might know, since his reorganization of the modding manual started unofficial.

At least the early manuals had a typo. Blood Stone boosts Earth, not Blood. The manual also doesn't list Crystal Shield, which casts Power of the Spheres (+1 to all paths in battle) for its wielder.

Re: First Post: Introduction and Request For Help Getting Up To Speed
 

Thanks for the info! My manual does show Blood Stone boosting Earth. I noticed Crystal Shield myself, and added it to my notes section. I did not feel it should be added to the main chart, since it only helps battle spells.