I have played Edi's excellent 466 Adventure Faerun map (not 1/5 of the way through on any yet, still learning the strategies for this game).

I keep having this idea every time I think of modding up some D&D related stuff, to do a full map of Faerun. (yes, I know Edi has discussed in detail the difficulties involved with map creation alone...) But I have this old CC2-based "Forgotten Realms Atlas" which, concievably, could be transformed via Gimp/PShop/Whatever, and even borders and such that the game "reads" (apparently? my first map creation attempt had a wad of horrible "neighbor" markers along the top and at 10 or so seemingly random spots around the map) can be turned whatever color with the tools in CC2 (i think?).

I think it even connects Faerun / Zakhara / Kara-Tur correctly.

My idea is basically a full conversion ... proper monsters / troops in proper places. probably 12+ nations for a start ... the most powerful players (Cormyr, Sembia, Thay, The Zhentarim, Mulhorand, Evermeet, Great Rift, Shou Lung, Tuigan Horde, and the Zakharan government are obvious ones to start contemplating... since I am writing this off the cuff, this is not a comprehensive list.. probably Thar, orcs, drow, the Empire of Shade, phaerimm, and giants also deserve representation, and I plan to add stuff from the excellent "Sea of Fallen Stars" for oceanic races)

Feedback on this idea?

Collaboration or assistance on this project would also be incredibly awesome.

Monkeyvich
:D

Edited:
I guess I don't have to say how cool it would be to populate forests with mixes of monsters gleaned from source, and two words: Magic Sites!

Re: Faerun.
 

idea: if you can't even get a map to work (no offence meant just being realistic seeing your post): START SMALLER.

first make a map, then make a nation mod, then try this.. a full conversion.. I've not seen much around (actually I only know of my dom3K mod and I guess you could possibly combine all warhammer mods and have something similar (since the indies could stay then which they couldn't in dom 3 K)

For the rest I can only say: it can be done AND it'll be one hell of a lot of work.. 2 sprites for each unit, then stats..

Since it's closer to the original dom 3 you could probalby use or convert sprites more easy and use vanilla units as templates so that would make it a bit easier.

I love faerun even though I'm not THAT much into it, I love edi's map too.. and I can mod for dom 3 but since I'm already working on the other total conversion I'll not be there to help you out.

I wish you good luck though.

Personally I'd start with warhammer though if that interests you somewhat since there is a map already and there are quite some nations.. combining those and changing the map (ask creator) to have the right indies etc (changing those IS a lot of work and relatively unrewarding since indies are killed of relatively fast and not used much, though you could create great indies of course) could be a good/better start

Re: Faerun.
 

By neighbor markers do you mean independant flags? Or did you just have neighbors that didn't make sense? It's easy to get rid of extra neighbors, just hold control (or shift, one of the two) and click on the province you don't want to have a connection to. If you have independant flags in places they're not supposed to be, it's because provinces are designated by pixel-sized pure white dots on the map and there's a speck of white somewhere you don't want it.

Re: Faerun.
 

hmm that is in the documents :D if he can't get that right (which was what I assumed too) my advice still stands: start smaller :D

Re: Faerun.
 

Which document? I have downloaded a variety of docs and no guide to making maps "function". Can someone point me to this basic reference so I can see what I can do map-wise??

Monkeyvich

Re: Faerun.
 

No offense taken. I just assumed the map .tga/.bmp was just a background onto which you added "where" the province nodes are in the map editor. I threw in an old "central Faerun" map I had for DMing purposes and it was crazy weird in the map editor and I had no idea how to move the nodes about or delete them.

As to Warhammer, I'm strictly a 40K player and have to keep a strict mental regimen to avoid taking a Skaven or Goblin army. I already have Eldar, Space Marines, and Orks.

Monkeyvich

Re: Faerun.
 

In your dominions directory you should have a /doc folder that contains a modding manual and a map editing manual. Those should have all the commands and information you need to do most anything.

Re: Faerun.
 

I could make a fantastic Forgotten Realms map if only the old FR Atlas program (based on CC2) would actually do what it says it should do and copy sections of map at any resolution I want. But no other paint program seems to recognize or accept the data being put on the clipboard.

If anyone has a clue here, please help! :D

Monkeyvich

Re: Faerun.
 

Can you save parts of the map into image files? That might work better than copying.

The map editor has a better chance of guessing the right neighbours when the borders are red, but you'll probably have to check every province manually for mistakes any way, so that's not necessary.
When you get the image out and start adding province centers, put them into a different layer and keep the working files separate from the final .tga or .rgb images (which will lose the layers). This makes the editing much easier.
Try to get all province centers in before you start editing neighbours. The commands for adding or removing provinces don't work, and changing the image file and then going back to map editor may cause you lose all the previous work on the map.

You should probably decide what is the first nation you are going to create, and play Dom3 nations that you think would be similar. You might even want to play a short MP game, but perhaps joining a blitz game on the IRC channel might be better in your case. Blitz games are over in hours, but forum games tend to take much longer, especially with all the diplomacy.

Modding and mapmaking pdfs are in a subfolder called doc, as was said.

Re: Faerun.
 

I don't think that this FR Atlas program is being distributed for free now, so I can't really check, nor would others be able to... but their FAQ states:

Can I export maps?
Yes. You can export maps as a high resolution bitmap. Bitmaps are easily converted into other raster-based images such as GIFs and JPEGs.

So if you export maps, then the GIMP should be able to open the resulting file if you i.e. drag and drop it into it.

Re: Faerun.
 

Does this sound like he's having the classic "white dots in places they oughtn't be" problem?
(Says the guy who's never made a map...)

Re: Faerun.
 

hehe but you are right, all the more reson for him to try and finish that map first though :D

Re: Faerun.
 

I wish it were that easy. The help files say that I can set a custom map resolution at which to export to the clipboard, which never seems to "catch" any actual data. Tried about ten ways, only way I can still see as feasible is getting some sort of "fake printer driver that is really a .tga generator" type of widget going. Anyone know of one of those? Might come out pretty well antialiased to boot.

Monkeyvich

Re: Faerun.
 

Yes, turns out that was the case. The Spine of the World was literally swarming with province nodes. :P LOL

Monkeyvich

Re: Faerun.
 

Thanks for the compliments on my map.

I'd be interested in seeing what you can manage to export from that program. What kind of graphics does it give you? Is it the old style FR map graphics like they had in the maps for e.g. the Savage Frontier module?

The only thing that has prevented me from doing a full scale Faerun + Kara-Tur map has been lack of a suitable graphics file.

Re: Faerun.
 

hmm you don't need to export in TGA right away.. just make it a more regular file and then load that in GIMP and save it as TGA then.

Re: Faerun.
 

well any type of "i am posing as a printer driver to really capture a bitmap" widget would work, as I can photoshop/gimp/psp with the best of em.

So.... if anyone knows of a freeware type solution for that, please let me know. I'd prefer not to have to do PDF though.

Re: Faerun.
 

I'd love to do one with the full Abeir-Toril, Kara-Tur, Faerun, Zakhara and all that "terra incognita" filled in with custom but logical stuff. Possibly even the Underdark, or at least selected sections thereof.

Custom nations and units are a must for true FR flavor too I am imagining.... Red Wizards and Purple Dragon Knights and Harper Spies and whatnot all about.

Monkeyvich

Re: Faerun.
 

hehe if you are good with gimp I've got a zillion sprites that need to be made :D

Re: Faerun.
 

A guy on one of the other forums said that the best low-res sprites he ever got was when he dressed up like something and shrunk it. He didnt have to dress well. Just straws on his head for antenna or a bathrobe for a mage robe. By the time it was pixilated down enough there was barely an image of it anyway.

Re: Faerun.
 

I can't vouch for (never tried it) but a little Googling came up with this on SourceForge:

http://sourceforge.net/projects/imageprinter

...which claims to do what you want (I think.)

There were also these:

http://www.zan1011.com/
http://www.dobysoft.com/products/softcopy/index.html
http://www.tucows.com/preview/422476
http://www.download.com/NED-Image-Pr...-10263138.html

...which are not free, but have free trials.

Re: Faerun.
 

Gandalf: that probably says more about his sprite making skills than about the quality of the sprites he ends up with

Re: Faerun.
 

*light bulb goes on over head* I have a great idea where to get some sprites with extreme ease and customization and pure black backgrounds. I'll let you guess what it is for the fun of it.

Monkeyvich

Re: Faerun.
 

Attached is a greatly shrunk-down version of the 20258 x 7966 pixel mega Realms map.

Note the large, undetailed areas on all the "Terra Incognita" regions. Still debating on adding junk I made up to all those areas ;)

Towns will also have to be added on, but that'll help me get the nodes and such sorted out.

:D

Monkeyvich

Re: Faerun.
 

I must say I know near to nothing about the places you've added (compared to the other faerun map) also a lot blanks here.. personally I think adding nations to that map will be a lot of work and might be nicer (since I guess you'll get less nations well documented nations in these extra area's.)

Re: Faerun.
 

I would really like to have the full sized graphic if you could upload it somewhere, Monkeyvich. If you feel like sharing it, please send me he details by PM or email (through the board's system) if you don't want to post a public link.

Re: Faerun.
 

Hey Edi couldn't you make nations for your map? Only thing I wonder about is wether the majority of human nations would be very different in playstyle.

Re: Faerun.
 

I generally don't like making mod nations. Too much work compared to what I get out of it and I have other things going on that require all the time I can spare. A full scale map of the Faerun/Kara-Tur continent is perhaps the one thing that could pry me away from those other things at the moment.

Re: Faerun.
 

are those nations in those vast regions so well developed... I was thinking that around the sea of stars you'd get a hell of a lot more sites/nations etc etc compared to the other 90% of the map (sort of like the warhammer map but then even more so.)

Re: Faerun.
 

I haven't read any of the stuff that came out since 3E was introduced, but even with 2E there was plenty of stuff about Tabot, Khazari, Wa, Kozakura, Shou Lung, Tu Lung and the Hordelands. I also have most of the stuff related to Zakhara, so that would not be a problem.

In the old material the areas that have the least coverage are the places south of the Sea of Fallen Stars between Chessenta and Tethyr (Chondath, Sespech, turmish, Orsraun, Shining Plains) and the Shaar and Eastern Shaar areas. Not much about the Black Jungles and the Mhair either.

Everything else has something even in the old stuff, though the greater part of that concentrates on the Dalelands and the Sword Coast North. Kara-Tur has less, as there were relatively few adventure modules made for it and just the one boxed set and what precursor stuff was in the 1E Oriental Adventures book.

There would still be enough to do nations and such based on those if you wanted and plenty of special provinces for a map, but specials would have to be redone anyway.

Re: Faerun.
 

I would love to see more scenarios for Dom3. We really lack there. Very few of the maps have versions with built-in game settings. And fewer yet that try to merge mod with map. There is a large untapped potential there IMHO

Of course, its best (learned from experience) to not try to tackle such project all together but it can be done in stages. A great map, then package an alternative .map file for that map which creates a scenario game, then a mod to create things which another scenario places into the map. And then if you really want to get nuts, chaining scenarios MUHAhahahahaa (evil laugh).

OK sorry. Got carried away again. Of course they can all be created in a way which makes them available for use seperately. But I would like to see more full blown merges.

Re: Faerun.
 

Hey Gandalf was my gangwars mod something like you mean?

Re: Faerun.
 

Yes. That was one of the better examples. :)
And of course your Domwars 3000 was another.

I think Sombre did with his WarHammer ones.
And I did D.A.R.E. and Natural Selection.

Re: Faerun.
 

I have a bit of good stuff for the Shining South, all the places you mentioned, and of course Maztica (and the northern stuff described in City of Gold). Also can dig around to find old web enhancements that describe the Border Kingdoms and the chondath-to-tethyr area very well. Also, Sea of Fallen Stars gives great details for undersea races.

As far as the continents that are "blank".... all there are are vague rumors (and this is after a personal plea to Mr. Greenwood himself to explain what they were).. but apparently a map designer / DM / whoever would have carte blanche to put whatever made sense there. I am thinking of adding African-style mythos to one continent, perhaps remnant populations of the various Creator Races holding sway in some of these "dark continents". Although I am tempted to use the round one on the bottom right for a straight up copy of Rokugan (although with Shou-Lung and Wa and Kozakura we may already have our fill of OA-style provinces/nations).

In any case, Edi, send me a PM and I'll see what I can do about getting you the full-scale image. It still needs GOBS of touch up work on just the colors, and it is devoid of borders, names, and city markings (although for some reason, major roads are on there, and the Dragonwall of all things). I am only a bit concerned about the file size, although in this day of movie downloading a couple hundred meg (maybe? haven't made a non-Paint-Shop-Pro full-sized .bmp or .tga yet) should not be a problem.

Monkeyvich.

Re: Faerun.
 

I find that there is a large contingency of players who seem to love Dom3 for its ability to play on old machines and small laptops. (I hear that mostly with my MegaHugeMaxSettings maps that I like to make). But you could always chop off a piece and offer it as a partial for those folks later on.

Re: Faerun.
 

First a lil continuation of me and Gandalfs more general scenario talk: hmmm I'd not mind making some sort of scenario again in the future but you'd have to give me feedback about the gangswars map for example so I know what works and what didn't.. all in all I got about 0 feedback and couldn't find a player to play it in MP.

Well if the whole of faerun is so well documented (I've never played a rpg but have just read a lot about it whenever I encountered it but taht obviously left me huge blank areas in knowledge) then modding it would be great.

Didn't know you ever played dom 3K either (which isn't actually a scenario but involved heavy heavy modding and mapping (for each map every single province needs to have a PD of my creation and a poptype I also had to invent myself.) I'd love your feedback there too.

On topic:
Since a lot of dnd nations seem somewhat based on RL nations and dom 3 nations have the same you should probably start by putting all nations in one age and then just take whatever nation seems to have some fitting sprites and just mod those units.. easily enough you could add the new units you need. There are also some mod nations which might very well be a base for either indie or some nations (barbarians mod, the warhammer orc mod could probably give you good stats and sprites for orc, either as race or as indies, you could lend vampire from several of the vampire mods if the vanilla ones aren't good enough.)

I think a lot of pplz here would be willing to help (though I've noticed most are better with idea's than actual work, which is alright since it's pretty hard working on one nation with more than 1 person)

YOu could probably just make a list of all nations you need and give general information and the forum could propose which nation would fit best. Maybe some would even offer to do nation themselves.

Edi seems more than willing to help on the map and he's very capable so I'd advice to let him do that if he has time.. there is plenty to do if you really want to work on this mega project so if he wants to do that you should let him and start on another part yourself.

Also.. even if Edi wants to work on the map that will take quite some time probably but you could already start with modding nations which fit on his sea of stars map... you'll need to do those nations anyway and then you could test them on his map...

I wish you gl.

I

Re: Faerun.
 

Nope. Haven't done any scenarios, haven't made any maps.

Zepath made a superb Warhammer Old World map and there was talk of an 'adventure' version of it.

Re: Faerun.
 

OK guys, I am going to start hanging out in chat. I am looking at some mods and building a design doc for an all out Faerun. I have all the reference at my fingertips, so if you have a question about an area, I can find it. XD

I think the map design will at first NOT have the "new areas / Terra Incognita" but I am not destroying the "full map" so I can retcon as necessary and add areas piecemeal....

Anyhow, I am looking at the DB and the mod guide and sample mods and getting ideas about what I can do.... thus hanging out in chat will help me as I encounter conceptual issues. :D

Monkeyvich.

Re: Faerun.
 

I am starting to over-think this project I believe.

The biggest problem I am having at the moment is twofold and in the same region of basic design: Nations!

OK, first off. Nations come in three Eras. Am I insane enough to want to put junk like Netheril and the Sarrukh empire in there? I have the technology but the "whole cloth" factor would eventually creep in.

I am thinking about just making every nation Late Age to start with, since the Present of Faerun is much better documented.

But then, since I've got a map with one end in Icewind dale and the other ends in Zakhara and Kara-Tur .... I start wondering if there are enough nations. And how to define them? If Dominions is a game of Deity vs Deity then logically the factions should be deity based. But that barely holds for the multi-pantheonal nations ... in Mulhorand, Horus is revered beside Selune. it's insane. So then I think.... political?

Just try to start that list. I'll do it for us all: Lords' Alliance (Waterdeep and Silver Marches), Cormyr, Sembia, Mulhorand, Thay, Amn, Tethyr, Evermeet, Rashemen, Zhentil Keep, Tuigan Horde, Shou Lung, Tien Lung, Wa, Kozakura, Tabot, Murghom, Calimshan, Dambrath, gasp pant gasp.

Maybe factions? Harpers, Zhentarim, Emerald Order, The Rundeen, various religious factions might also fit here? or some crazy combination of all of the above type of groups.....

but then just think... of the start locations :P

Input is welcomed ....

Monkevich.
*cogitating madly*

Re: Faerun.
 

Second set of thoughts on really bringing Faerun to life.

I am considering making commanders things like Purple Dragon Knight, Thavian Slavemaster, and so forth. some will be site based, like Edi put Witches in Rashemen (if you look hard enough LOL).

But seriously I will edit this one once I have some time to think more about Nations. Although unique heroes are ironically the easiest to fit in and need no discussion if you've dabbled in D&D at all (Elminster, Drizz't, etc., etc. ad infinitum).

Sites as well will be easy to extract from source.

I am learning how much I have to learn by poking at the manuals.

Monkeyvich.

Re: Faerun.
 

I don't really have that much in depth knowledge about faerun (I have a copy of baldur's gate 2... that's about it), but my first instinct would be to go either political or factional. Perhaps both actually. Deity based doesn't really make sense and would probably never work.

Remember that most of the inhabitants of the world are human, and while there are differences between them I don't there would be a huge difference in the kind of troops available for the most part. You could probably come up with a fairly generic mega-roster and give some of the units to some nations and not others. For non-humans it would probably be a bit more work, but I think you should probably avoid these at least for a little while if you are going to do it. I would also highly advise you NOT try to make all ages, that would take far too much work and I'm not sure how sensible you could make it. Doing it all in LA makes sense to me.

I would consider making some of the stronger factional units into summons, probably as national spells for the nations that get access to the particular factions.

Re: Faerun.
 

But the player is playing a god. The second good reason for doing it from a deity point of view is i have a set of GFX all ready for flags... for Faerun alone at first.

Also, if I plot the Late Age as the Time of Troubles, the avatars have starting points in the canon. *shrug*

I may include a few pre-built pretender gods although I'm sure I'll need some help drawing a few sprites.

I totally see your point though. Any way I cut it, I lose essential characteristics of the universe of FR. sigh.

Re: Faerun.
 

The player isn't actually technically playing a god, they're playing someone who's trying to become a god. Something more like raistlin, or the events in Throne of Bhaal. You could look at it from the direction of powerful people trying to manipulate the world around them in order to ascend to godhood.

Just a thought.

Re: Faerun.
 

I thought the factions overlapped the territories of the politicals. Im not sure that the Bards would feel right as a separate nation with their own capital and expansion. Maybe you could make YOUR version have the factions aligned with various politicals. That way the unit "bards" might appear with more than one of the nations.