Them Germans were good
 

Came back to WW2 after a long break playing MBT so decided to give the long campaign a bash to get up to speed, needed the practice Bob.
Poles did not cause to many heart stoppers though the last battle they mounted a last ditch attack. Had a lot of trouble holding the line as just went with my core & 2 Stukas.
Those big squads take some stopping & I was about to get overrun when their morale broke halting the surge forward. My poor machine gunners must have been emptying their canteens over the guns to keep em cool. Of note Polish infantry AT weaponry seemed surprisingly accurate regulary scoring hits at 4-500m, not enough to kill but damage was a real possibilty.

Core as stands at move to France
3 Rifle Companies each with 2X MMG & scouts, 2 with ATRs
2 Truck transport Companies
4 Halftracks (new addition upgrded from above)
About 20 tanks MK IIs IIIs & IVs ratio about 6-10-4
Recon
6 assorted armoured cars & 3 motorcycles
Guns
3 37mmPak
2 AA
2 SPAA
4 81MTR
4 10cmNBw MTR
6 15cm Inf guns in arty role
Transport for above

So we head for France first battle is an assault so spend support as follows
1 company of engineers (thank god)
2 10cm, 1 15cm offboard
4 Ground attack & a spotter

Vision is 34 map 140x130 turns 48
What a map inverted Y stream running through with hills behind with a rough ridge near the stream protecting 2 of the flag clusters. 3rd is on a hill with little cover near. Cover to stream is good & fair from the one road that crosses the first. The second stream is deep in his territory with nice cover on his side & that ridge.
Bottom of map where fords are I can see wire (mines?) & some DT.
Fords to top have trees by river but followed by a KM or more of open terrain.
I would like to defend this lets see what the AI makes of it.

Main force heads down central road to first stream & crosses straight into a tight quarters fire fight. Luckily troops faned out & crossed but the 1 AC that tried got stopped by an ATG. Artillery is strangely quiet just some small stuff.
Fight way forward a couple of mines on road & armour crosses. Some nasty fields of fire here but the AI has deployed some units behind trees meaning sticking your head out for a look at sneaking round often results in getting it blown off close up.
Luckily French inf At weponary is not up to Polish standard as tanks are close.
Slow going but groups rather than main force so armour is turning the tide.

Top force has finaly reached the stream & infantry crosses & moves for a turn to see if can spot anything, notice a bunker then my smoke screen comes down & vehicles start to cross.
AI must have spotted someone or waited for smoke as steel rain poured from the sky.
3 of my new halftracks are gone & same amount of tanks are immobile.
Vehicles beat a hasty retreat as troops have spotted 3 bunkers & slightly further back some H-39s. I only have 1 platoon of engineers with this rifle company so send in the planes, second one flys straight over a AAA gun & leaves smoking. That does not bode well for my infantry this is open ground with lots of automatic weapons.
Drop smoke & get engineers to bunkers, ready to assault & armour pops out to suppress to find 3 ATGs had not spotted, more time lost.
2 Bunkers down but the third one seems to have a rifle company screening it by the amount of fire my scout just took, going round it.

Meanwhile the main force is nearly at the second stream relativly intact & all hell was about to break lose.
The AI has infantry all over the rough ridge & I have few safe crossing points for my vehicles. First to try was damaged as the hills seem full of Char-Bs
This turned out to be one tough battle those Char-Bs shruging off most arty & air attacks while my troops took heavy loses protecting the engineers from his infantry screen.
Tanks have given limited support as having to fight behind a smoke screen & I lost a couple when it disapeared a bit quicker than I had anticipated.
As it stands think I have got most of his Chars but at some cost & control central flags.
Top Group got to hill flags on without much trouble only to come over & find more H-39s in a reverse slope defence. Every sort of gun is here to further back & now I think the infantry I bypassed will come for me. I was hoping they would as will leave foxholes but did not want to be the meat in a sandwich. If the H-39s decide to charge as well I could be in big trouble.

A nod to Andy & Don as pester these last 2 battles have been very good no half hearted playing here & this one in particular my core will be heavily mauled. Good job it gave me a decent amount of time otherwise I would be kippered.

If the next battle is an assualt I think I might take a bit more arty as new routines mean it spends more time offline. As I said at the start the German War machine was awesome my armour is totaly outclassed, if I had not bought those enginners this could have been a disaster.

Re: Them Germans were good
 

i don't remember the poles had any AT guns in my campaign, maybe you mean their AA guns?

Re: Them Germans were good
 

Great stuff Imp, and yes the Poles have some very capable AT to be watched for!! :hurt:

Bob out :D

Re: Them Germans were good
 

I was refering to infantry AT weapons, dont remember name but some RPG type weapons have a range of 500m like a modern RPG-7 just not such a big bang. Plus they do have decent ATGs & you are right the AA is dangerous.

My view the Germans did not have better equipment but had far better tactics & command & control. I cant touch half the French tanks & the Brits have MatidaIIs.
Going to try to do without 88s till N.Africa or just buy a couple if defending.

Re: Them Germans were good
 

Didn't the Germans uses 88's in a ground role at Arras ?

The weapon he is referring to may be the Polish 46mm (or thereabouts) grenade launcher ? it can propably hurt the light German tanks with lucky shots, and I believe its carried by the infantry squads, instead of being a separate weapons team

Re: Them Germans were good
 

They may well have but I am assuming it was not a common practice till Matildas in N.Africa. I could well be wrong but as said will just use a couple if defending till then to "discover" their effectivness. Besides playing like this is making for a challenging game. The plan is not to become a fully mechanised force till Italy where the rough ground will make HT handy. Should not have bought trucks in core till near that time really.
Going to add a platoon of engineers to my force though.
I am sure I will lose more core this way & wont get as many kills as can't leap in taxis to mopup but its a 60 battle game my guys would be unstopable if all survived to veteran status. High exp levels & an extra shot make a big diffrence with poor FC of WW2

Re: Them Germans were good
 

88's are aways in my german core, i get a couple of them and trucks to move them, this way i get experienced gunners in N.Africa and 1337 gunners when back to the swim against the red flood in the east, and what if we can win "the last battle"(like in sp1)?
what happens if i keep being victorious in the east, may i change history, or simlpy live it again?(this lead me to a question, is spww2 long campaign limited to living history?or can i change it?eg:sealion,succesful defense of normandy?)

Re: Them Germans were good
 

See to me thats cheating, the AI is not as good as a human & its force does not improve with time so why do you want a further advantage. I will buy the 88s only when I need them & explore other avenues like air. Taking the easy option means you do not develop other tactics for when disaster strikes & while some do not work so well against a human they give you a grounding.

From reading several posts I think many people want their core to survive relativly intact & have an easy game as quality improves. It is gutting when you lose a guy with a Superman outfit as you sort of become attached to them & I have been known to launch rescue attempts to save them in the past.
I am in the other camp though & want a challenging game that makes me have to think as in my view thats how you learn & improve. I would even go so far as saying that playing with an ubber force makes you a worse player. I would find easy games very boring & have the option if so wish of having superior equipment for a decent chunk of this campaign

My campaign is set so AI recieves 130% (I think crap memory) of my forces & I must admit the hordes of Polish troops caused me some concern. I had to break up the assualt so I stood a chance of dealing with it & pick my targets.

Meant to say most of my squads have grenades & SMGs as extra weapons. Managed to nearly sneak 4 up on an H-39 when it decided to bug out. Mass tank panic they all decided to scatter, highly amusing but a bit of a setback. When they are in the mood & possible they are assulting the tank or lobing grenades at it first & soaking up any fire to allow the engineers to kill it in relative safety. Also they always get a kill as tank is suppressed if they hit the damn thing, sometimes have to fire twice.

Re: Them Germans were good
 

88s under the personal command of Rommel at Arras. Also the 105mm arty in the direct role too (there is an AT version of the gun there somewhere).

Poland has a 37mm ATG, and can also field 75mm field guns in an AT role. Also have the usual ATR, which can annoy Panzer 1 and 2 and is availableto some heavy infantry sections.

Cheers
Andy

Re: Them Germans were good
 

Thanks for that did not know about 105 arty will take a look, I just dont want overkill, multi role stuff is useful

Re: Them Germans were good
 

Is there any 88 classed as flak?all them seem to be HATG

Re: Them Germans were good
 

This game does not like me more on later.
Well those H-39s were not so bad we had a funny little dance infantry chasing them as speed 12 & my armour joined in up close both can kill each other if MkIIIs, MkIIs have to pray a bit as vurnerable full stop.
Char-Bs still scare me but local force superiority will stop H-39s
My MkIIs held them off infantry that came to get me while dealt with H-39s.
Smoke to localise battles has become my best friend.
Nothing much else happened of intrest once tanks gone armour assisted in defeat of troops.
marginal victory

Swaped ATGs for 47cm - some chance
Added 2 platoons of engineer to core for tank threat & experience means will clear mines faster. Handy as usualy takes place under arty fire.
Swaped 4 more trucks for HTs they are taxis for the enginneers as now have 8.
Swaped a couple of MkII to MkIII for survival more than anything.

Next battle river crossing, oh b#$%#
Vis 62 turns 50 someting flags shotgun mainly round centre
Terrain clumps of woods a few low hills on my side. french side same but more hills & to level 3.
2 roads to river centre one near enough to heart of flags, top within a few hexes of map edge with wide open space on other side, centre not much better very little cover near river on either side, said smoke was my friend.

Spending all support points (lots) as would actualy like some survivers
8 barge carriers in case AI is unervingly good with arty again.
Several 105 155 offmap bateries one will be assigned CB duties
8 planes for armour.
3 bombers if I can identify on map arty if he has or to help with tanks if not
2 companies of paras, poor sods unexposed landing could be hard.

Vision will at least help my FOOs have 2 & a vehicleFOO. Risky bet but if moves to tree line slowly should be safe at over a Km, oh river is 14 hexes wide, thats a bit of time in a rubber boat

Paras come with a PAW 7.5cm with pen 8 heat 6 but only 4 rounds of each, if I can get them close enough maybe.

Current thinking is a feint crossing down the middle but main landing using top road.
to close to map edge for my liking but Paras can contest the area. Need road realy for barge transports as slow.
Also means if make it across can roll him up from there.
Timing is key here my troops are going to be in those boats way to long for my liking.
If there are any tanks near the crossing point those planes better do their job.

Re: Them Germans were good
 

Errr - that is because they ARE heavy ATG in the game.

Heavy FLAK in the game is being deployed as ATG, and tactically spread out as ATG. If dug in they will be in deep gun-pits oriented for direct fire and not out in the open with wide arcs as needed for AAA fires. But as their only AAA usage is salvo barrage fire at high level bombers, which needed the guns to be all close together so the HAA director could be hooked up to the guns then there is really no point in an AA version that would sit twiddling its thumbs against the AI (which has no use for level bombers) and against most human players (who prefer strike planes or regular arty over a single-pass HE dumptruck that was really only provided for a few scenarios that might need them to drop arty all over the map and also likely on own forces too - e.g. the Normandy breakout).

The guns that have their AAA sights on the mounting and are used for following individual strike planes "down in the weeds", you already have to hand.

Cheers
Andy

Re: Them Germans were good
 

Well minor porky I bought 6 bombers not 3 , also 5 gliders & there are acouple of level 2 hills on my side.

My ATGs have been ordered to assist the paras so on board 3 of the gliders. The FOOs comandered the motorcycles for a run to those hills & FOO vehicle is following one, slowpoke.
Turn 1 the 6 armoured car & remaining motorcycle head down main road stopping in full sight & drop a bit of smoke near his side of the river. Will the AI think I am coming that way? Also a few empty trucks in general area but probably take him another turn to see.
Main force is grouped to close together as top road is to near map edge, if he drops arty here its game over.

Turn 2 one of the hills is not safe for my FOOs 155mm Bat just landed on, will wait nearby before risking.
I can get to about 250m from river in vehicles then have to unload as visible.
Drop arty barrage on landing zone.
82Mtrs are there usual useless self as cant reach anything they are now in range to bombard riverside.

Turn 3 Drop smoke to protect landing zone. I got 8 gold spots & placed 4 on riverbank some arty transfering over to hammer it. I have also decided to use the bombers here as crossing is the hard part, they are ready to go & FOOs should have eyes on next turn.

Turn 4
Ruse might have worked no AI arty this go, hope he has called on centre, will start pulling forces out of there next go.
Riverside bombardment starts & paras come in.
Sort of cheating did not realy think about but came in from side as that was the direction I wanted them to spread. Smoke worked a treat no plane was fired on before they dropped & only a couple were hit later, all 20 or so survived thats a first.
4 units drifted off & took fire while landing 2 lost a man & one LMG section was destroyed as forgot to set company rally point so Lemminged towards them.

So I have 2 intact para companies & 3 ATGs on his side to see what they can spot. Hope tanks are not to heavy in the area but planes are primed & ready to go when they have targets.
2 FOOs have a good view but on reflection should have risked sending one over as LOS will get messy fast.
Screen shot straight after landing attached.

The Saga Continues
 

Turns 5+6
As usual weeding out dug in infantry without vehicle support is proving hard work, FJs are finding the odd mine to mainly along the road as expected. Most moving to end of road others fanning out & heading for the river. As got down so well one platoon has broken off & is going for a looksee towards the left.
Some infantry is in the water & 2 barges make it on turn 6, each takes a Rauempanzer + Pioneer plus whatever fits as expecting mines on river bank.
Ruse has worked only 1 arty strike vs my arty

Turn 7+8
Expending a lot of my arty to help FJs as first wave is 2/3rds across, thought for a moment they had gone one turn to early, have lost 2 rafts as smoke did not fall right. Having to keep avenues open so FOOs can see.
Nearly dug out top will be ready, further down progress not so good & people that were crossing there aborted & back on land as more bunkers. Not enough arty to deal with at the moment
Crossing in 2 waves as if mines as I expect will end up in a big clump when land.
AI arty happily is pounding mine & AAA which was supporting from far side along with a couple of MGs. Also hitting FJs but only one round in the water well back. Will my luck hold?
Tanks
Para drop transport saw 1 Char-B a long way from my position & FJ scout party has found a platoon of H-39/SA18s . There are at least 3 Somua S-35s near the bunkers & they are proving as resilent as Chars, bomber took one out on 3rd attempt others are happily taking pot shots at my FJs.
The SA18s will not be a problem when I get there as good armour but guns a bit of a peashooter pen of 1.
New arty routines mean placing arty takes a while now as check LOS & switch between plus you really have to think about dropping smoke. River crossings were hard enough now even more so.
The big question is can I Land & clear the mines before his arty hits. If smoke falls right 2 barges should make it next turn.

Turns 9+10
 

I am seriously worried all arty fire has stopped exept 1 mortar versus the FJs. The second wave has decided discretion is the better part of valour & is moving back from the river.
Having to drop more smoke to screen now that most of his infantry is dug out so barrage can die down. I have 5 offboard & 2 are switching to CB mode.

Them damn tanks I thought the Frenchies were supposed to lift up there skirts & run, nobody told these guys. Targeted with 6 155s, also 2 ATGs no chance to kill but help suppress & they are still firing the main gun. 2 planes were supposed to hit but my usual skill with air means they targeted nearby bunkers instead.
Remaining troops I can see are in there sort of area or South in trees & FJ snippers have helped no end with digging out.
Calling top North from now on so NSEW

Barges have landed either side of road & busy clearing mines. Need to get out of there as troops arriving in rafts fast. Fjs to N have started clearing wire to help.
Arty has to be iminent God help us.

Considering adding 2 snipers to core, giving FJ ones an extra packet of fags for outstanding work.

Breakout iminent turn 11
 

Pic of situation at end of turn 11

2 paths through mines cleared & hopeing paths through wire will be this turn. If not going to risk immob & run through with vehicles as expecting arty on crossing point. I hope the guys in rafts can make it to the bank & weather the storm before it hits.
2 barges are risking being in LOS of bunkers to make them think will continue loading further South. Should be able to survive a hit at that range & dumping arty on bunkers to suppress.
The idea is just to clear the immediate area, will sort into some sort of fighting formation once they have done so, 5 key will come in handy.
Risking bringing a couple of ammo trucks over in 2nd wave as think engineers might need a top up after bunker busting. One set of 82Mtrs coming over to the others will help provide smoke for the crossing.
Grief those tanks hit with arty again still holding.
Will find out if FJs PAW 75mm any good against as now about 300m away. Crawled up with it switched off so do not waste a shot & risking waiting so firer is stationary, thats assuming arty dust cloud does not hide the tanks as hitting again, 3rd time lucky? A lot of ammo going here.

A cautionary tale
 

Turns 11-13

Check your arty at start of turn for lost contact. I lost contact with an offboard 155 with plot set that was going to shift 2 hexes. Did not realise till to late so a couple of FJs caught a few hits as on the edge.
On the plus side one of my bateries CBed this turn so I should have shut down 1 set of 75s
About 6 80mtrs have opened up at force to South of bunkers who are clearing out a platoon of infantry.
The FJ scout force has found no sign of infantry support for for the H-39/SA-18s found earlier but are proceding very slowly waiting for the last unit in the formation to catch up as he dropped badly.

The landing zone has been slamed by 75 & 155 fire. Most of the vehicles managed to clear the worst of it, several were on the edge a MKII is immobile & a MKIII lost a weapon. About 70% of infantry made it to some risking a ride. Most of the others have now started crawling but 5 units are getting hit hard. Its touch & go as if they retreat further will probably walk into mines.
About 60% of my core force is over & the 2nd wave is reformed on the shoreline preparing to load up. The force that aborted crossing is making its way to departure zone in trucks & will be one turn behind wave2.

The initial plan was to ignore the North bunkers leaving to wave2 & stop those tanks however there are 2 more of the damn things all within 200m of each other & covered by the Bunkers there & strongpoints (weak bunker tank can kill if close).
I now have the falling on those tanks about 18 tubes & still have not heard one resounding thunk. 1 FJ PAW75 now has only HEAT left but he managed to kill one so "only" 3 left. I digress as path cleared went past North Bunkers they are gone as means I wont need much smoke for wave2.
Turn 14 a good amount of armour in position to shoot at 2 tanks so time for the kitchen sink absolutly everyone fired at them LMG MMG sections halftracks ATGs tanks. They are still not running & as dug in I just cant get side hits on the hulls so any chance of damage seems slim.
Going a little slower than I anticipated :re:
4 engineers are in HTs & can reach 2 screening bunker they have to take out before can make a safe aproach so I just have to stop them getting shot up.
These French tankers are amazing, the Char-B I mentioned earlier & have ignored opened up at a range of 3Km all bar 100m low hit chance of course but guess what 3 side hits on a MKIII main gun gone what the

Time for a plan
 

Turn 14

Enemy mortar fire got an FJ sniper barrage on landing zone dying down but about half a dozen infantry units are not well.
2nd wave is in the water & crossing.
Thought & forgot that mines possible protecting bunkers have spotted some so Pioneers run is on hold. I think there are paths through But Raumpanzer & Pioneers now there slower approach.
That Char scored another hit no damage this time.
The other PAW 75 in the vicinity got a tank, seem to work well at 250m, 2 left.

THE PLAN
My units are in disaray after landing & the large amounts of arty air I took have spoiled me. I have ample time & while did not plan on using a turn or 2 to sort out before attacking makes sense.
1) Smoke Char-B
2) Smoke local tanks & take out easy strong points covering with ATGs & a few MkIIIs. Move PAW75s up.
They will be supported by 4 MkIIIs split to move to either side of so can get a rear turret hit by switching firers.
3) The other MKIIIs are moving to take out H-39/SA18s
4) The MkIIs are going to give troop fire support as will Raumpanzers when done with mines.
5) Most of FJs & core that has made breakout is heading along near river bank this will change.
6) There is a N-S road running about 20 hexes from West map edge main thrust will be along there with secondary along the bank.
This makes finding arty more likely & means should be able to attack several positions from behind, one hopes.
7) 2 Batteries will stay on CB duty I do not need all this arty now but smoke was vital for crossing & FJs were on their own. The rest will assist with dug in troops as & when found.
8) Planes, do not think I have lost any AAA may be light they are going to start passes on likely locations starting North & heading slowly down map. This should help them survive & give away location of AAA before infantry stumbles into & gets chewed up.

FORCE SUMMARY
1)Planes & arty have proved totaly ineffective vs tanks using to soften troops.
2) MkIIs realy need not to get in range of enemy armour, MkIIIs can help but will need an assist as can't get track hits need to be nearly point blank & still rear turret is best option & by no means a guarantee.
3) FJs have heaps of smoke & will therefore be leading ground forces as can pop to survive if need. plus elite so see fairly well.
4) Pioneers are my current tank killers but some will clear bunkers before working in conjunction with PAW75s.
5) PAW75s are effective tank killers close up have a range of 50, 2.5Km so may be effective at greater range but due to poor ammo load need evey shot to count.
Be nice to swap my few AT Rifles for in core but I don't think the FJs commander will take to kindly to a request to lend me them till I have something better.

Update
 

Not much to report managing to sort the troops out a bit from the chaos they were in, 5 key is a Godsend here as saves keep doing N+P when you have ended up scattered to the 4 winds.
Lost contact with a 155 bat again wonder if its the same one but not a problem as will fire next go on H-39/SA-18s before tanks expose themselves. Also lost contact with a plane but it did its run anyway. AAA is light round here anyway.
Keeping an eye on how radio contact with offboard develops throughout the war.
Will exp help a bit or is it simply the radio code. Will the radio code get better as time progresses, probably not for Germans but I am sure Russian radios were pretty poor at the start of the war if you were lucky enough to have one that is, could be talking out of my rear here.
Have dicovered a sniper near road & think possibly a mortar
A HMG on river bank has discovered me, logical place for realy.

Re: Them Germans were good
 

Anybody following this finding comments on weapon effectivness new arty routines etc useful? I am open to suggestions if want things I am not covering or further explanations as brushing over.
Have so far found that French tanks are hard to kill without 88s but we do have alternatives.
Play is a bit quicker than vs a human he would have needed more evidence of a river crossing for instance before main push off & air could have had a look at the river bank there to help fool him. Things like positioning for flank shots tends to be easier but trying to use reasonable tactics. Having said that crossing where I did would probably not have been wise.

Re: Them Germans were good
 

Good day, Imp

Great AAR, Wish I had some grand advice ref the Arty Routine but I'm still learning as well.. One thing I do find though and that is from what I've read over the years we are now getting a better feel for the Arty Business.

I have noticed that as the batteries gain experience their reaction still does get better. FO's should do the same as time goes on if they should live so long.

River Xing's have been and always will be a b*tch my friend, but it looks like you are holding it together.

Hey I just lost a Bn (-) of FJ on the Rock of Freckin' Gibraltar mostly due to bad timing and lack of good LZ's:doh::hurt:

Not to mention the debacle at the Football Field!!:doh::sick:

Bob out:D

Re: Them Germans were good
 

Sir Bob

Okay I will continue my observations on weapon effectivness & stuff just wondered if anyone was realy bothered. I will swap 3 onboard with whom I have had very little contact problems so far (but I do place them near each other) for an offboard & see if I can determine if contact improves with timeframe or experience.
First game I have used any amount of offboard so had not noticed contact till now will buy one even if no intent to use from now on.
Ha Para drops near water are never a good idea & I suspect also not that many soft spots for landing & a decent defence.
Risking a FOO with the drop would have made things a lot easier if you have to use a 0 unit check his arty rating first or you could be shooting yourself in the foot. Having said that it wouldnt as most arty has been wasted on those tanks.
A further note if want to use a 0 unit which I rarely do select your HQ & press 5, bingo there they are.

Damn fool
 

1 PAW team strolled nonchalantly into a mine field, still alive but doubt I will be able to persuade him to take any further part, another lost a man to 155 bat the AI is not silly its figured out dont want it to see for a reason.
Strong points were easy just 4 bunkers & 2 tanks left now.
Forces are in some sort of order & heading for respective locations.
HMG is causing problems so 2 MkIIs heading that way & 80mtrs on far bank have under sights.
FJs hiding from sniper till a vehicle can get there, no update on the mortar but at least 1 squad expect more. AI has covered the route to the road, top dog. It cant have placed some mines that far back on it?
Tanks attacking H-39s next go needed time to get in position for flanks or it would be another wasted effort.
Smoking out distant Char may seem exesive but 4 out of 6 shots hit with silly odds suspect the gunner is of Irish decent (luck of the). But there are most likely other eyes on that hill & 2nd wave is landing including trucks.
Everybody thats coming will be over in 2 turns.
Decided any troop unit whos Icon shows damage is going to sit this out as will just give AI more targets & I will soon have 5 inf comp to play with.

Now were cooking with gas
 

PAWs took out both tanks HEAT is not as effective but does the job, ATG that fired at first took a casualty.
Pioneers have hit 3 bunkers with varying results 1 each destroyed routed & damaged.
3 H-39s one destroyed one routed & third got a mech assault by infantry in a HT.
Threw 2 grenades then assaulted hopeing for a rout but got a kill, result.
Other situations static at present but troops landing are finding moving hard going as the ground is pretty churned up.
For a laugh sent 3 planes to see what hit chance they have on that sniper. Going to cancel 2 as I feel flight path might make them think my tanks are nice target, think ahead Mr P
An ammo truck is off it will be moving to cover behind some trees so Pioneers & PAWs will be looking for a ride to it.
The Bunkers were solid with mine cover good job changed the plan.
Arty fire is now sporadic I think because I have a decent front now so its trying to guess my next move. Probably hit troops in HMG area & ahead of me along road is my guess. If it switches back to landing will be to late again, I think. Its eyes are gone. Oh FOO AC is over PSW223 I think & one FOO has just jumped in the water.
The other has got on his bike & is heading for a good location to see units on 2 hills & a decent amount of far bank including some Flags.
Have 1 flag near 2 others by sniper lot.
Going to risk a couple of planes making a pass on Char to see if they can spot its freinds.
Turn is 18 I think.

Re: Them Germans were good
 

Well - I did mention the volley-fire with 37mm guns to go for the track break/abandon way of dealing with chars B in another post.

Also - the 47mm gun in the Jpz 1 is rather hot, even without any sabot (comes later, but by then you are in the desert and the thing is too vulnerable there IMHO). It is reliable on class 8 (char b1 bis turret front) till 200 metres, class 7 (sides) till 400, and class 6 (turret sides, kilt and H39/R35 best armour) to 550. Under 500 you will get some weak point shots if to-hit chance is 80-90+. ( Best AP is a point or 2 more from WH size, but not reliable e.g you might get an 8 result at up to 800m but I would not bet the farm on it :)!).

I don't bother with 88s as German in my core - too much bother to cart about and set up in an unnoticed place (or they get shelled). Useful as support if defending perhaps. For France 40, I do bother to get a couple of sections of Jpz 1 and use these in close support of the tank platoons. It needs to operate "up front" as it has no great range. Nice toy.

(You can get the same Czechoslovakian gun as an ATG in 4/40+, it's miles better than the 37mm door knocker.)

2 88 flak 36 and transports = about 230 points.
For that, I can get 3 sections of 2 Jpz1, which are SP and somewhat less vulnerable.

France 40 = Jagdpanzer 1, for the German player who knows his kit.

Cheers
Andy

Re: Them Germans were good
 

Cheers Andy that saves me trawling through the units as German OOB is big & gives me a more viable alternative than troop assault. Could not justify getting PAWs on loan.

Fully aware of track hit option not reliable but if can hurt it bail seems more likely.
The trouble is they are dug in so its probably not going to happen unless a plane gets lucky which is why I took em.

Are you saying if have a high to hit chance more probability of weak spot hit. Makes sense aimed for the drivers plate not the tank.

My view on 88s the same if the map looks bad might get a couple for a defend battle.

Re: Them Germans were good
 

- Dug in means less chance of hull/track hits, more turret hits
- firing up from lower altitudes, ditto

Weak spot hit needs to be under 501m, 80+(may be 90+? I forget)% to-hit chance, and I think the firer may needs to be better than pinned status too, and is based on a skill roll as well so a 60 EXP less chance of it than a 100 EXPer.

Andy

Panzer Bob
 

Keep us updated on whether you manage to pull it back from the brink,
situation sounds a bit shaky can you see the abyss, teetering on the edge comes to mind from your post

Turn 19
 

Routed tank was killed
Plane pass on sniper 6% no effect
2 planes made a pass on HMG hit chance 12%
The MkIIs there now twidling there thumbs as planes destroyed it with 3 hits.
They have moved out of Chars smoke screen & he has scored another hit for no damage, they are a bit closer & heading for woods & cover.
2 bunkers left Pioneers are having trouble as arty has got heavy there & arty is hitting just inland from landing zone, 2 squads vapourised.
Ammo truck nearly in place & most stuff is on route to location.
Sdkfz 7 fired on by an unseen S-35 survived but lost half its passengers.
Start of next turn can see its right on map edge planes missed it & protects route to road, may have friends & sure it passed up previous fire opportunities.

Not quite according to plan
 

Well the 3 pioneers finnishing the bunkers are pinned down till the arty stops one left but mines in the way.
Mine tanks are heading to catch up bank force as expect more along it.
My pilots are flying with there eyes closed some AAA on Char pass 3 guns but Ok, the bank force should be in position to see one AAA on next pass.
Planes saw a squad but strangely no other tanks so trying another pass there have to be more.
They did not do a good job round the road area either scouts nipped up there on the motorcycles last turn & so had a look.There are a total of 5 just back from a row of buildings there. I could just smoke & ignore them which is what I did for the present courtesy of FJs smoke grenades.
As have time when AT guys have reloaded will try to deal with but its not going to be easy as 50-100m apart.
Sniper is still routed but have found a total of 3 squads in his area one more somewhere, one was found by a now immobile probably about to die 222, thats what comes of trying to avoid being shot at by those tanks, looks like I was wrong about the mortar.
Most Mortar fire has stopped but all arty that fired landed on pioneers or landing zone.
Last 3 barges are darting around trying to hide as unloading does not seem a sensible option, has to switch targets soon.
Next battle will not accept default turns to long.

Shootout at the OK coral 222 lives
 

Forces involved 3 FJsquads 2 FJLMG MkII immobile 222
1FJ squad & LMG 400-600m from enemy rest 100-300m & 222adjacent.
As it turns out 5 French regulars & a routed sniper so far all dug in.

2 onbard 155s make a limited drop on 1 French Sqd 0.3+ 0.5
2 French fire c(asulties)= 1 everyone returns C=0
French fires RPG at adj 222 misses as pinned return 222 took offence C=2
2 French fire C=2 Return LMG C=2
Sniper rallied fires MkII forces him out of foxhole
2 French fire C=0 Return C=0
Squad by 222 fires at LMG C=1 222 returns C=1
Further French fire causes C=1 for none
Squad by 222 vacates & takes a further 2 hits & sniper is killed while routing.
Gotta love these FJs & that MKII its a great suppressor.

There fate is now sealed as infantry in trucks arriving & a couple more tanks.
2 MMGs move to tree line & hose down everyone conducts fire for few loses on either side but they are now outnumbered by more than 3 to 1 & all routed. Squad out of foxhole was killed.

Elsewhere
Infantry moving down bank have fanned out & are now slightly ahead but can see AAMG & a squad. 4 tanks are with them.

AAA fire has intensified 1 other AAgun location found & a Char but not where I expected he is about 15 hexes back from the bank. A plane took light damage.

Artillery fire has died down its finaly switching targets & mortars have started firing in support of OK Coral, final bunker is damaged & took 6 casulties but I lost a couple of trucks in landing zone plus 5 routed squads probably with some damage. Final landing commencing next turn.

2 PSWs & 3 Pioneers reloaded & on route to tank formation. 1 of the pioneers is badly damaged so will only be used in a last ditch attempt as his kill chances are not to good. Have a second ammo truck in place now.

Should have left a few more trucks on far bank stuff is getting out of range of some arty now.

Operational Problems Looming
 

Taking the advice of High Command & having some Jagdpanzer 1s along for the ride would most definetly have helped, despite operations length I am now watching time.
Nearly in a position to launch an attack on 5 tanks but delaying slightly as sent a scout for a look & he has found 2 more so far about 600m back covering them., Taking this lot down could prove expensive & time consuming.
Road Force is at bottom of first hill no fire recieved from woods on.
Bank force took out first AA Gun Raumpanzer moving in sight at a safe range to draw some fire then infantry & MkII killed it for no loses. Found another one tricky LOS as surrounded by high grass.
This force cannot move much further unless I smoke original Char again so is vectoring towards it. An ATG has opened up vague idea where troops off for a closer look on foot. So 2 pronged attack on hill.

With the adition of FJs this has turned into quite a big game having to think logistics trucks are ferrying people to contact & having to move arty pieces several of which are now out of ammo as resupply is otherwise occupied.
Becoming increasingly harder to maintain momentum without incuring loses.
The number of tanks is proving a problem 17 so far & I play with tank heavy off because & could well be wrong AI seems to buy more complete formations & hence a better force if do.
The easy option would definetly be to leave Northern tanks alone as don't protect anything now but will probably make a rush for 3 flags in area I have taken.

Run Into Heavy Resistance
 

5 tank force - half a dozen planes made passes as expected no effect all turret hits last bomber making its run next go then smoking & kicking off attack, no other units found.

Just over a third of the way down the map & the enemy is in an Lshape made it to tree line on the hill without problems but so far can see 6 troops & 3 Char-Bs. The chars are at the intersect of the L & stretch along the horizontal line & the ATG is there somewhere an FJ looking for took 3 casulties from an unseen HMG & there is at least 1 more Char that missed my armoured car, things are hotting up.
Enemy is in woods on 2 hills & open that I have to approach across.
Idealy I would like to scout a bit West & place MMGs AAA for support fire but time beckons going to have to take risks.
Considering this means I still have half the map with unknown forces I was right in that I can't hang about. Tank force I have found so far is now the size of my armour & those pioneers take 2 turns to fully rearm. The attack is in danger of stalling due to the amount of armour present.
Enemy arty will become more dangerous as generaly I have managed to keep it falling behind me the last few turns just pinning the odd troop.
I hope we get a lock for CB fire soon because I am going to need those guns.
About a 1/4 of my arty is out or critical on ammo so attacking across the whole front will start to become unviable.
Expecting some armour loses now.
Forgot other AAA taken out without loss

Re: Them Germans were good
 

A good read Imp - keep it up.

Your scouting the way I do by the sounds of it. Good luck with those tanks. Those Char`s are a tough nut to crack.

Re: Them Germans were good
 

Thanks for the comment Warren, do try not to use scout by death tactics but think this might get a bit tense

Oh bother
 

Bomber attacked tanks for a typical result, nowt. Begining to think these forces family are local they are a tenacious lot generally just shrugging stuff off & returning fire.
3 guns firing smoke on tanks only managed to drop one round in a useful place, what a farce FOO had no LOS scattered everywhere, going again attack delayed.

Taking the hill is progressing Ok but crossing the open ground is not slowed to a crawl. Cleared 2 squads out of foxholes & adjacent to another but those HMGs are causing havoc.
Found 1 HMG & another Char but cant locate other HMG ATG or the Char in woods somewhere on hill 2. Tanks are not moving till I find at least one but HMGs severly hampering efforts to locate. Found another 3 squads one the hard way, AI won that turn
Called in 3 planes on infantry then another 3 will attack an AAAgun that has been harrasing.
1 Scout is taking a gamble & skirting round running ahead by motorbike to see if he can get an idea of whats to come, if he makes it will send him a buddy.
Stiff resistance

Sods Law
 

1
3 2
4
Hills actualy peaks all one big hill 1 2 3 make up the L
3 mainly open terrain, others interspersed woods & a road runs through rear 3
4 also contains a village on the road.
To Right of hill 2 are 3 Chars & a soon to die (I hope) HMG

The motorcycle scout made it to near the village on hill 4 dismounted.
Droped some smoke in front of hill 2 as this holds the stuff I cant find so need to get closer. Forces are now about halfway across open because of this & tanks are moving cautiously. 2 halftracks risked running to the base of hill 2 & made it.
Hill 1 is now largely under my control 1 squad still has some fight in him but rest are running. There are 4 squads on hill3 & forces are engaging,1 now routed & armoured cars & infantry working well here. 3 Squads are loaded in truck by road out of LOS to capitalise next turn by running up to foxholes for point blank fire.
1 tank recieved 2 damage in the fight for hill 1 but troop loss was fairly light this turn, about 4 -5 men.
Sods Law the lucky Char is just on the other side of hill 3 crest to closest units but has LOS to open area. Smoke screen is about to clear & as its getting short sent Stuka to suppress him for a turn. Think thats all the bombs possibly one more left.
Hes routed first direct hit immobilised. Up to now I have only been hiting tanks when in a position to take advantage of the outcome. But as well over a 100 shells & 15 bombs have had no effect why bother aaaargh.

CB fire on his 75s he now has one set of 75s & 155s but 155s have gone quite.
Cant find the mortars

Tank attack was worth the wait 3PAWs & a Pioneer got kills for the loss of 1 man
The last was attacked by a squad + 7 MkIIIs 1 was damaged but he turned tail & ran.
He is now in the open & should be able to get point blank with some units as troops in position to lay smoke in front of 2 tanks covering who are next.
Things are getting back on track & going to work my way along the rear as tank hunter force will need several turns to reach the Group of Chars at the end of the L.
Transport is en route. One ammo truck moving towards hill 1 the other has been tasked with feeding arty as its looking a bit dire.

Back on track
 

Want to knock this out so pushing on, its turn 26 am nearly halfway, morale will go soon. Entering part of map FOO who remained on far bank is covering
The hill> all defenders out of foxholes on 3 as trucks roled in, scouting of hill 1 found another guy also ejected from his hole. Scout had to jump on bike & come back crew bailed out of Char & I was not letting him get back in.
Troops moving toward hill 2 in force & some splitting off to find LOS around 3 Chars so tank killers know where to take up positions.
Went for a fast attack on remaining tanks as want to reposition.
2 MkIIIs attacked runner followed by pioneer mech assault rest moved on other 2 tanks with 3 infantry & a pioneer. Slightly worried there might be more tanks in tree clumps, there were. Killed 3 2 with MkIIIs another to Pioneer, losses 1 tank damaged 1 immobile 3 troops lost. At least 1 tank is still there maybe 2 But I will not have to worry about reloading PSW Eng before moving to next target so can maintain momentum better.
These planes have been crap vs armour, can't even see them but they are good vs dug in troops, 3 made there pass scoring 1 hit on a squad & eliminating another HMG.
Other 3 then made pass on AAgun first plane destroyed & rest shot at nothing. Not quite sure how they all survived as a shed load of AAA filled the skies. Despite this they found 4 squads & located the position of another AA gun.
Took a decent number of planes in hope of track hits Doh. Also my air direction is not the Mae West so practice.

Update
 

Enemy arty might have been quite light but effective most of bank force is pinned.<?xml:nam<O:p</O:p
have found the tank there approach will need smoke<O:p</O:p
My company leader found lost 3 men discovering there are 2 tanks left up North, transparent woods hex caught him out.<O:p</O:p
Another squad covered him with smoke grenade, has rally in high 80s so want to keep him alive.
Scout & motorcycle that killed Char crew died finding Char covering a road, my fault for being a bit reckless.<O:p</O:p
Planes are going for a dangerous life & taking on what they find.
Either CB fire was not very effective or first battery has recovered & is back on line, more stuff lands on bank force.<O:p</O:p
It is worth noting I think AI set up well guessing my crossing point as planes have seen no bunkers in area though could be doing there usual great job at scouting.<O:p</O:p
The AI still controls 15 flags.<O:p</O:p
1 Near 3 chars<O:p</O:p
4 In woods about 250m apart<O:p</O:p
The rest in 3 distinct groups woods, hill & open areas.

Hell Fire
 

Cleared village
 

MkIIs now have French armour under there belt, Char covering road taken out by FJ & 2 MkIIs for no loss.
99% of all fire vs armour is taking place point blank to rear or sides, vehicle fire vs troops nearly all under 250m.
Most MKII & all AC main gun HE is gone.
The other Char was also taken out for no loss by FJLMG a Squad & 1 each of MkII, III, IV the III getting the kill.
Finaly found 2 mortars near Chars, hard to get decent shots without giving them targets but 1 down.
Made a risky move through village with lead elements unscathed, 3 armoured cars looking at likely ambush spots & troops in position to find out if vacant.
Once through here I have about 1Km of open ground (with a partial line of trees halfway) to the hill held by a rifle company. I can take most of this before in LOS to S-35s in the area. Think some AAA in area to. Some smoke ploted.
Most of tank killer is trying to catch them up so can help with S-35s as they will be a problem. 3 chars as unsuppotted will fall to regular guys, at least thats the plan.
FJs are trying to get a bit closer to ATGs before open up & arty should hit next turn, Raumpanzer has done a bit of pant wetting & taken cover I hope.
Force on hill 2 is moving in direction of woods near chars planes saw a company in. My offboard is being directed here to soften, moving on dug in units in woods is not a good idea so going slow, hopefully by the time I have a go at them some of their spirit will be gone.
All MMGs are heading for road area to support lead elements. If arty becomes critical they can Z fire to aid. 223 Fu vehicle is with already.
Transport is getting well confusing now as moving all sorts & I just dont have enough, tanks are picking up some in safe areas.
Will resolve arty at start of next turn as have lost contact with a battery that is about to drop on me due to speed of advance this go #@%$, have also lost contact with entire troop of onboard or as I suspect they all ran out of ammo together, smoke to.

Code Blue
 

Sliced & diced
 

Oh hellfire
 

Having Kittens
 

The hornets nest
 

This renewed vigour has slowed the pace but
About 1/3 of the way through the woods have not found any new squads 2 are left 1 out of hole 1 cas & 3 flags.
150m from hill now 1 squad killed 4 dug out, they have taken a dislike to MMG teams another takes 2 hits, oh they are dual MG teams.
Getting close to seeing whats on the other side of the hill & entering R-35 line of sight. I know somewherse there is another company dug in.
223 fu moving to woods hill to firm up view & 3 PAWs + 2 Pioneers are close now riding trucks.
Typical got reinforcements in LOS vanished again but worse as I am now right on top of several flags some infantry on the other side has started moving & FOO across the river has just seen 5 more R-35s break towards me. Plus 5 of the 6 in my general area vacated & are heading up woods hill.
My ATGs are going the wrong way & PSW pioneers are going to have to backtrack. The only bonus is if they enter the woods its not the best enviroment for tanks. Annoyingly last bomb was ploted to drop next turn on 3 adjacent ones. Typical though it might actualy have some effect now they are in the open.
Think arty has immob a HT & CB continues ammo safe.

Fun & Games
 

The halftrack survived but its passengers are gone!!!
They are crawling out of the woodwork everywhere
Just South of the FJ debacle Raumpanzer & small infantry escort have seen & fired on 2 squads heading inland one routed.
Planes spotted some troops furter South heading to woods hill seems to be an alarming amount still about, due to lack of transport some of mine are still up Northish
At least some arty is in place now so trucks can go get em.
Reinforcement ambush is set up but have lost sight, do not think anyone else is with but a bit early to say for sure.
I have a big problem with the advance on the hill.
Need to realy because flags are here & could hit lone tank, fine if they head off into woods but if they come 150m my way so at level 2 treeline that force are sitting ducks.
Heck if they head into woods its where I have least concentration (2squads) as working that way. Troops have to find / stop them as even point blank I will need lady luck for a frontal hit to mater. Pioneers are the guys I want in the woods but getting them there is problematic.
ATGs are going to be of no further help as I keep moving them in wrong direction :doh::shock:
Its got a bit tense all of a sudden this turn will take a while to figure out so signing off for today & leaving you with a cliff hanger aka any good TV show.
Its turn 35

Sit Rep turn later
 

Re: Them Germans were good