So you like nations with a cool theme. Giants are boring. Onis sound cool! You open up the nation, start the game and what'd you see? A whole line of crap. But never fear! You can actually do something with these bags of crap so let's check out what we got.

First off, let's talk about Yomi's troops.

Bakemono's. They come in melee variety and archers. The melees are useless so use them as arrow soakers or something. Or you can just use the archer varieties as arrow soakers so yeah, the melee varieties are useless.

The short bow versions are very nice though. They're cheap and easily massable. Dark vision, mountain/forest srvival, double map moves means they're actually somewhat nifty. Especially once you get flaming arrows. Anyway mass these up.

Bandits come in melee or bows. The bow versions are ok because they got helmets. I prefer the bakemonos for their various survivals and darkvision but I'd use these too if I got a lot of resources.

Both bandits and bakemonos are stealthy so make sure your armies are moving when attacking =) Not sneaking!!! The stealth abilities do let you make some ok raids but overall not something you'd care about.

Alright that does it for your mortal troops, let's discuss the actual oni's of an oni themed nation. =)

All of them are gluttonous but consume no actual supply so it's generally not something I notice. They also cost very little resources allowing them to be easily massable. They have a second ethereal form when "killed" which is nice but hardly worth factoring for. Their biggest weakness are priests but some of their higher end onis have the MR to stand against banishments. They are overpriced in base and still a bit expensive in cbm.

The Ko-Oni's blow. They are completely unredeemable.

The Ao-Oni's and Aka-Oni's are basically fire and ice throwers. They're both resistant to the elements that they throw. I prefer the fire ones. I will discuss these later.

The regular Oni's are hard hitters with javelins that get tossed nicely with their high strength. If you get something to soak the hits, they do some damage to even giants. However, they fall short compared to their bigger brothers.

That being the Kuro-Oni's. These guys are actually pretty decent. Two elemental range attacks that don't worry too much about armor and a big no dachi lets these guys really do some damage. They are also resistant to fire and poison. I'll discuss these a little bit later too.

Alright so there's your set of national troops. Nothing spectacular and pretty much what shapes up to be an archer nation. Your demon commanders can reanimate with priest levels. So prophetizing an oni general or hannaya for that duty isn't a bad idea. Let's look at the commanders.

Bandits: Both stealthy and able to command troops, starting with two of these aren't shabby. They are very flexible as scouts and being able to shuffle troops to your front lines. You probably won't build more of them except when your lab isn't built in your castles but overall not bad.

Demon Generals: you will not build these. They're able to command /everything from undeads to demons/ which is good but there are just better buys.

Sorcerers: Cheap old guys with earth and death. You can build some of these but I prefer hannayas.

Demon Priest: They suck.

Oni Generals: Decent thug chassis. All types of them are pretty nice, the fire gives fire shield, earth gives ironskin (allowing you to replace their armor easily), and death 2 lets you toss on a skeleton staff for soul vortex. I still use hannayas but I use these guys to hold the line occasionally.

Hannayas: For 200 gold and only five magic path, these girls don't look too impressive. Don't let the gold per research fool you, these gals are casters PAR EXCELLENCE. f2/d2 opens up nice boosters AND great summons/evo's and more! The random nature pick there? How about eagles eye so they're precise bringers of death? That's not all, all of them possess above average hp, decent leadership (2picks of fire), supply bonus (nature) and map movement of 2 with swamp/mountain survival. ON top of that, they are 100% IMMUNE to fire and poison allowing you to toss those battlefield fire evos to your liking. Lastly they are demons. Which is a note I'll get to in a bit. Their only downside is they're cold blooded so you need to be careful against the heavy hitter Niefel. They radiate heat so be careful with their placements. I can't say enough good stuff about these gals, they really are the centerpiece of Yomi. Dai Oni's are great but these gals are the only hope for competitive Yomi.

Dai Oni: You know these bad boys. Crappy armor leads to huge encumberance on an otherwise great chassis able to self bless, summon earthpower, soulvortex, invulnerability. Replace the armor and you got something. Crap researchers and cap only. If you get an a2 HOLD ON TO IT LIKE IT's DIAMOND. They will be your air boots maker + auspex summoner. If you're stuck with a1 for awhile and can't trade for an air booster (which I advise you do in a MP) then empower one. 30 air gems is nothing to scoff at but it's worth it.

Yomi's national summonables are ignorable. Nushi's & Kappas are out of your reach for the most part. The Dai Tengu is worth mentioning because if you traded for an air booster to summon one, you can slap that same booster on the dai tengu to forge your own air boosters and get you to the Air Queens. Worth looking into but don't stress yourself over it.

That's the wrap up on the troops. Let's talk pretenders.

If you're playing CBM: an awake Lord of Plenty will stand out to you. It comes with a free gem generation including the much needed astral gem. An n4/e4/s4 awake dom 6 Lord of plenty is easily acheivable. Splash on order 3, sloth 1, heat 3, growth 2, misfortune 1, magic 1. Or vary the scales to your liking, the only essentials are order 3 an d magic 1 anyway. You get a nice bless to your onis and splash into path that you want (nature/astral and astral/earth forms some great crafting combos)

If you're using base game, the choices are not as great. I'd recommend an awake enchantress with s4/e4/n4/w1 dom 6 order 3, heat 3, misfortune 1, magic 1. You can replace heat with death or sloth if you wish. I prefer not to take sloth because the opening for Yomi can get resource intensive. A dormant one is ok too but honestly the extra 12 astral gems mixed with the jump in searching helps.

There are other options but IMO those two are among the most feasible. If you're blitzing, I'd just go with an awake n4 dragon =) and scales with dom 4.

At the start of your game, you'd want to prophetize one of your bandit leaders and move/scout/retreat the other one to get him to the hall of fame as well as check out the local indies. He will also be a nice army commander once you find a scout province =). Recruit an Oni General and 3 kuro oni's and with base prod scales, you can get 2 bake archers and an aka oni. Pass on the aka if you wish. Your Oni general will be your "arrow catcher". With your prophet divine blessing him, he will be very very durable on the front lines. He will stand at the very front to "fire closest". Your kuro oni's will be behind him also on same orders. Set your bandit melees a few steps behind him so they can support him to prevent your oni's from being swarmed. Move your archers close as well to take advantage of precision being boosted at close range. This sort of formation should take VERY little casualties (if any) against most sets of indies. On indie 5, it'll handle everything save the toughest ones. Start recruiting hannayas and gunning for evocation 3. Without some spells, you might as well just tuck in your knees and take it if overpowered giants come knocking. With some evo's, your onis and hannayas can at least make a good stand. As long as you can DETER people from early wars, you are golden. Also fireballing hannayas will /greatly/ help against stray indie pockets inside your sphere of influence on the map that you were saving for later.

As soon as you can afford a dai oni (turn 4-5 ish), recruit one and have him lead a modest army of kuro onis and whatever amount of bakemono's he can lead. Set the same formation as the first set of your army except your dai oni blesses himself. Your 2nd bandit leader can run around picking up 22 resourced heavy infantries if you find a nice resource province with them. Try to use him to lead a bake archer/heavy infantry army if he gets a nice heroic ability.

After evocation 3, I send my pretender out to sitesearch. You needed it earlier for the extra research boost but you should be solid now and hopefully looking for a nice province to set up a second mage castle. Go for alteration 1 for eagle eyes and then construction 4. A dai oni can forge earth boots and then a dwarven hammer if he's not e3, if you get an e3 one just nab a hammer when you can. You should be collecting dai oni's only when you feel you need the army power (aka a giant nation is bullying you around or you want to ramp up your expansion.) Otherwise recruit hannayas. If you get an a1 dai oni, use it to site search with your pretender, otherwise use a hannaya. You'll cover most of your bases in gem production this way. Try to keep an eye out for Obscuro to aid your air. BID HEAVY on him. AFter const 4, you'll want to dwarven hammer some skull mentors to bump your research a bit. Don't go overboard with them, death gems are really useful and if you're not getting pressured heavily, you don't really need them. Go into conjuration for dark knowledge and possibly further for summon phoenix/earth powers. Then flesh out your site searching spells so you don't have to run around manually doing them.

You have a few options after you're done with that and effectively early mid. Enchantment opens up raise skeletons for hannaya spammers and also allows flame arrows for your f3 dai oni's to cast when they summon phoenix power. Fire shield is also in it. However, I tend to skip enchantment for now. If you're lucky and get a moment of reprieve, try to get construction 6, it opens up lines of boosters.

But you already know how to play at peacetime, you want WAR right? Well let's talk about what makes oni's actually scary. First off, you're able to tool up your dai oni's with various fire brands/ethereal cape/luck pendant to rampage around with a bless + iron skin. So you'd want to jump into alteration. It gives you lots of fun toys. If Hinnom or Niefel is bothering you, spam the crap out of them with shadow bolts/fireballs (depending on which) while Blinding them and swarming them with skellie spamming, small bakemonos. Getting to alteration 5 gives your dai oni's invulnerability. Getting to alteration 6 gives you the BIG NASTY SOUL VORTEX. D4 Dai Oni's suddenly become treasure troves of goodnesses.

But remember how I kept mentioning I'd talk about your other oni's earlier? Well let's look at two other spells at alterationo 6. End of weakness buffs all your demons protection which is ok but iron bane is serious fun because none of your oni's wear armor anyway so who cares if armor rusts! =D Let's look at one other fun spell for your d4 dai oni's. Darkness. Demons ignore the darkness penalty. Suddenly your dark visioned archers, onis and oh yes, Hannayas look a LOT MORE imbalanced. Let me repeat. Demons IGNORE darkness penalties. Makes sense doesn't it? After all, Onis are scarier in the dark! Who will be casting these beauties? Well your dai oni's can cast the iron bane/darknesses, just give them a lighter armor so they have a chance of coming back from fatigue afterwards. (or not, it doesn't matter too much). Remember, just because your dai oni's are great thug/SC chassis doesn't mean they can't play a support role too. A darkness here and there for keybattles led by evo spamming hannayas (who have access to banefires if you skullstaff/give them some death gems) of falling fires /shadow blasts will really tear things up while your demons chomp through half stat troops. Giants suddenly become A LOT LESS scarier. If your opponent tries to counter with undeads, thaum yields many anti undead counters which do NOT work against your demons.

Suddenly you've got more tools than just the typical SC Dai Oni's your opponents are expecting. Every hannaya with two death boosters becomes a HUGE threat with an army. (hence why I recommend going const 6 while saving death gems) Where to go from there? Well conjuration have a healthy spell of well of misery and king of banefire which you can easily summon. I'd recommend continuing alteration for it's final bags of goodies when you find the time, once you find phoenix pyre for your dai onis, disintegrate for your hannayas and the all mighty Utterdark, who the heck still needs artifacts?? Your Dai Oni's can run around laughing at half attack/defense jarls when Tartarian factories haven't hit the field yet. Meanwhile your Hannayas are the ONLY battle mages of EA able to fling around evo with any sort of precision while leading likeminded armies of oni's and bakemono archers around. Burden of Time and Foul Vapors doesn't even phase your demon troops. Suddenly you've became LA Ermor without being open to any of the counters. And your opponents are still blindsided because he was expecting just SC Oni's.

Re: Yomi 3.21
 

Yeah, this covers the primary parts I was thinking. Darkness is your goto spell, Hannyas are serious artillery, and Dai Oni should be used for support as well as SCs. Here's a couple more angles you should consider as well:

Air magic really, really, helps Yomi. You're focusing on swarms of cheap flaming arrows, wind guide is an immense force multiplier - and it can add a round of evocations from the Hannyas who can skip eagle eyes. None of your troops have shields, arrow fend, fog & storm are all life savers in many situations. Fog warriors & mass flight were made for low resource swarms of heavy hitting guys - all your Onis fit this bill. If you take a pretender with air and earth he can not only lay down all these spells for important battles, he can site search for air gems to summon Dai Tengus. Really, having a couple of these plus an air pretender immensely adds to your power and flexibility.

Ao-onis are I think the hidden gem on the roster. Their ice ability is not a ranged attack, it's a melee one which does 20 armor piercing stun damage. Their great club clobbers for 20 damage with their strength (24 if you lay a strength of giants on them) so you've got a good amount of damage packaged in a defense dropping double attack with further defense drops and critical hits caused by the fatigue from the cold. Obviously this isn't your goto guy against niefels, but the cold stun damage should be pretty damn effective against anything big and not cold resistant (Hinnom, Formoria) bonus it's magic so pops mistform and ignores etherealness! The clubs will do a good job smushing plenty of smaller things. These guys only cost 15 gold CBM (20 base), so you can get about 3 of them for the cost of the flashier Kuro-oni which gives you much more damage outlay and survivability. Swarms of these guys are what I dream of when you start laying down mass flight. They're also my goto guys for clearing indies, I like them much better than the expensive Kuro-Oni.

Lots of flaming arrows are good, but lots of flaming arrows against somebody who wasn't expecting them are 10 times better. Definitely don't forget your archers are stealthy, sneaking in a couple hundred unexpected archers for a big fight can be absolutely devastating. It can be well worthwhile to hold all your stealthy archers sneaking around in reserve until a pivotal battle...that way your hapless opponent hasn't built up heavy archer counters.

If you should be able to break into blood through a lucky indie find blood lust is low enough into blood that it's worthwhile to swing over and pick up once your research ramps up. If not, don't forget strength of giants might be the best thing your Dai Oni can do if you're fielding swarms of flying Ao-onis. Stack weapons of sharpness on while you're at it and there's not really too much than can stand against them.


Oni generals make pretty respectable thugs for the cost with nothing but a E9/N4 bless. Use them in pairs and they'll clear most indies easily - their autospawn wolves even soak up lance charges so they can handle moderate amounts of heavy cavalry. This blessing is also quite beneficial to your Dai Oni. Also don't neglect the benefit of passing out cheap battle saint shrouds to your Hannya artillery - that reinvig goes a long way towards increasing how much damage they can lay out while the armor and regen brings them all the way up to relatively stout vs stray arrows/spells.

As an alternative suggestion to KissBlades very reasonable strategy I'll go ahead and swipe a page from his book WRT my Niefelheim guide. Consider the following CBM build. Awake Master druid, E9/A4/N4. Order-3, Sloth-3, Heat-1, Death-3, Magic-1. You've now added the very beneficial entry into air as well as a very solid blessing. The down side vs what KissBlade suggests is you're gonna struggle for astral pearls, but I think the benefits of the blessing & air buffs outweigh this. With this blessing you can use cheap pairs of oni generals for some of your initial expansion, stockpiling gold for very rapid castling up. Your awake pretender will help you get that needed early research KB suggests, offsetting to a large extent the hit you'll take in initial research from recruiting non-researchers. Your second and third castle have no need for a temple, just crank Hannya out and make up the gap pretty quickly, and those groups of Oni generals start getting real scary once you look at stacking iron skin/soul vortex/fire shield and some cheap items. You can also use Ao-Oni for a very respectable supplement to this initial expansion.

Re: Yomi 3.21
 

In CBM there are just some chassis that got a *huge* boost.

Master Druid. Sooooo many good ways to bless
Lord of the Skies. Dom 4. Air 4.
Fountain of Blood 3Blood per turn!
...(vampire count turn 2 for LAUlm)
Lord of Plenty 2air, 2 earth.
Perfect for the race that prefers enchantment(?) - eventual wrathful skies + Melancholia
Mother of Rivers. 6 Water gems per turn. Ea-TC Wet dream.

One that is seriously underated is the guy that got the Plague Bow. Something lke the Lord of Desert Suns. His attacks are all BONUS - Out of the Box he is an incredible thug. And its not obvious.

Re: Yomi 3.21
 

Fountain of Blood gets three blood slaves per turn, but anyway, this looks like a great guide, and I can not wait to try it out.

Re: Yomi 3.21
 

"Ao-onis are I think the hidden gem on the roster." - Baalz

I couldn't agree more. This unit is your number one go-to guy against anything without cold resist in my opinion.

I also agree with Kissblade that Dai Oni are more then just an SC Chassis. The nation has access to a wide range of cheap boosters that all of their mages can benefit from. Skull of Fire, Skull Staff, Thistle Mace, and Earth boots are all either 7 or 6 gems with a hammer. Now your Dai Oni and Hannayas are a real force to contend with, especially once you start to stack on reinvigoration.

I'll also point out that the nation is rather good at producing fever fetishes. In regards to using the excess fire gems, they can easily cast fires from afar and volcanic eruption. They unfortunately don't have any good way to store the fever fetishes in order to draw out the gems like the way Machaka can. I would limit myself, unless you like micro-management or find suitable indy hosts.

Re: Yomi 3.21
 

@ Baalz: Hmm, I've dabbled with Yomi pretty often and I'll say I've never noticed that trait about Ao-Oni's! I've always assumed it was a ranged spell. Hehe, probably because I'm too busy cackling maniacally when I rain fire and poison on my opponents with my kuro's. And I agree, it's definitely tricky and tempting to pick between an awake and dormant pretender. The e9 helps /a lot/ since even the heavy samurai armor looks /ok/ with that bless. haha =D

Re: Yomi 3.21
 

Are demons more vulnerable to disease than undead are? I would expect that you could just stick fever fetishes on your Onis and eat the lower rate of return in exchange for lack of micro. (You could even put them on your demonic researchers.)

-Max

Re: Yomi 3.21
 

DANGER: Entering Exploit Territory.

KEEP OUT

Re: Yomi 3.21
 

What Cleveland said. Demon = will have disease affliction, will generate fire gems, will heal, won't lose hp = Not Good.

Re: Yomi 3.21
 

It won't work. Demons generate from fever fetishes at roughly same rate as undeads. So you basically just caused them to be diseased for nothing . =\

Re: Yomi 3.21
 

What exactly is the lower rate of return for demons and undead? Is it low enough to make fever fetishes uneconomical? 1 gem every 10 turns? 1 every 3 turns? I've never tried it.

Cleveland: I don't think it can considered an exploit unless demons turn out to be BOTH immune to disease like undead AND don't have a lower rate of return, which KissBlad says isn't true.

-Max

Re: Yomi 3.21
 

Do not.............seek.............the treasure.

Re: Yomi 3.21
 

I meant it when I said there was no good choice for hosting the fever fetish. If it seemed even remotely econmical to use demons I would have suggested it as its micro-management free. However, the rate is closer to 1 a turn for every 10. That's not good enough. Retested this morning in case your curious.

Re: Yomi 3.21
 

I actually used a fairly similar E4N4S4 enchantress to what kissblade suggested in a muliplayer game (byleswar), but I expanded slightly differently. I would build a few oni generals, then build 20 ao oni and send the group out conquering indies. The groups take almost no losses normally and can pretty much expand indefinitely until you get into your first war. After my initial expansion I had 6 forts and began mass-producing sorcerers. Then when I got into my first war I started producing oni generals again, and pretty much decimated my opponent (ulm), who had no real magical counters to my army. Baalz's suggested pretender chassis really appeals to me though, if I had had a decent amount of air income this game would be a lot easier.... Water would be very useful as well if you can find the points for it.

I think actually, as I stated in a different thread, that the ao oni are your best counter even to niefel giants... because of their 50% cold resistance. They rarely take fatigue from the cold aura as long as there's not a giant stack of auras radiating onto them, plus with their ethereal second form it wastes a lot of giant time trying to squash them. And with their high damage, coupled with destruction/strength of giants, even a niefel giant is going to be feeling those clubs of theirs.


Oh, and my ko-oni thunderstrike catchers have something to say about the assertion that they're useless. 12 gold for a unit that can take multiple hits from thunderstrike with no buffs is a pretty good deal from where I'm sitting!

Re: Yomi 3.21
 

I think you'll get more gems out of your fetishes if your Demon units have a never-healing wound. I've seen the Disease affliction disappear from my Hannyas, I thought that was weird.

But in CBM Yomi can just summon Kappa commanders for 2W. You need Jade Amazons though probably.

Also in CBM Yomi can cast lots of Corpse Construct with a lightning rod. Same number of units as vanilla, but with vastly improved MR.

Don't make a bandit leader your prophet. Recruit an Oni General the first turn, and make it your prophet. Demon prophets can both preach or raise dead.

Re: Yomi 3.21
 

Though only longdead warriors at best.
That's something I'm missing with Yomi, proper reanimation.
Perhaps the demon priest could get reworked to have a reanimating unit beyond the Dai Oni?

Goes hand-in-hand with the established lore and the nation's gameplay.
Beats me what the reanimated units would be called though

Re: Yomi 3.21
 

Soulless are much better than longdead in the initial expansion phase, because you get so many of them. And your prophet does not need to be busy blessing your armies in any case. It's just a little advantage, but every bit helps IMO.

If you want something to do with your 2nd bandit leader on turn 1, set him to retreat and attack your most likely turn 2 province target so you don't accidentally run into a bunch of wind mages with your initial army.

Re: Yomi 3.21
 

The ability to get some scrubby longdeads isn't worth the bother for me. =) I did use to prophet the first oni general but since he can't cast much with that armor, I just use the bandit as a sermon/smiter.

Re: Yomi 3.21
 

Then prophet a Hannyas. They are demons too.

Re: Yomi 3.21
 

A Hannya is 200 versus 130 gold, and 70 gold is a lot on turn 2. Plus there's a whole bunch of useful stuff a Hannya can be doing. I don't use the Oni General prophet to do much fighting because he's too busy making undead.

The undead can come in really handy if you get rushed by Hydras or an Awe pretender. Plus 20 soulless warriors and some archers can take a lot of indies. You can also use the soulless or longdead to eat up lance charges and arrows (yay rotten shields), and to suck up banishments that would otherwise target your Ao-oni.

Re: Yomi 3.21
 

Yeah, it just comes down to preference really. I should probably point out in the guide that since most commanders are demons, they can reanimate.

Re: Yomi 3.21
 

Now /there's/ a Fever fetish chassis.

Re: Yomi 3.21
 

What about a bless strat. for Yomi?- I did several successful tests with a combination of E/N/W bless, like E4N4W9. It lets the Oni generals and of course the Dai oni serve as initial expanders and is good enough to be useful game long.

Key weakness here is astral of course.

Re: Yomi 3.21
 

My biggest problem with bless strats on Yomi is that oni generals can't self bless. Also you have no good recruitable sacred troops. So you end up needing the dai oni's super early. Using them as expansion forces is tricky because you end up hurting your research, five hundred is a lot of gold to basically pulling off a ghetto niefel. =\

Re: Yomi 3.21
 

Excellent point.

Re: Yomi 3.21
 

Granted your points are valid and I've considered them as well. However the early research loss is compensated by the benefits the bless gives (until you catch up of course). It also frees you to take sloth 3 and reduces your attrition rate to 0.
Those are 500G but only half upkeept and you don't need many of them early on. Teams of one Dai Oni and two generals will wipe most indie armies with that bless, even on strength 9.

I'm not at all arguing its a better strat - rather trying to analyze it as an alternative way to go with Yomi.

Re: Yomi 3.21
 

3 turns of commanders and the cost of the bless to take one indy province a turn? And presumably not certain indies (like lance cav). Doesn't sound amazing. Not awful either though.

Re: Yomi 3.21
 

Turn 1: recruit Oni general.
Turn 2: recruit Dai Oni and prophetize general.
Turn 3: Send the two against a weak indie province (anything other than barabrians, knights etc).
Turn 4: recruit Oni general. Send him to join the duo. Up until now its one province per turn starting at turn 2.
Turn 5: recruit Dai Oni
Turn 6: recruit Oni general.
Turn 7: same as turn #3. From that point its two provinces per turn or one if you want to combine the teams to take out a tough province.

By turn 10 you should be taking three provinces per turn if you like. It works with this bless (and similar) I've tested this many times. Not brilliant, but at least an alternative. maybe.

Re: Yomi 3.21
 

For more astral for Yomi with CBM I really like a Lord of Plenty. Here's a sample build I tested out:

Lord of Plenty (Body 1339, 150 hits)
Magic: Earth 4 Astral 4
Dominion 6
Scales: Order 3 Productivity 2 Heat 3 Growth 3 Misfortune 2 Magic 1
Awake

He gets 2E2S a month! Insanity. :)

You can hire a ton of Bandit archers for E2 Sorcerers to buff up, they do some good damage with their arrows and swords, and LoS reduces the damage they take. Flaming arrows is Enchant-5 in CBM, but when you hit it, it's another boost in power.

Re: Yomi 3.21
 

Pity Sorcerers aren't stealthy, it could have been great for raids with bandits (which I like, it seems thematic, reminds me of Seven Samurai :cool:). Also still have to get the reason of the Demon Priest. Mapmove1, H1. Can't resurrect soulless. What the hell of a power did he get from the pact with the onis? Probably just a cool name I suppose :D

Never considered going for a Bless. It may be worth it, while I'd take the risk and change E4 for S4, you should then rush with research to reinvig spells/items but I think the access to Astral plus the MR bonus could be worth it.

Re: Yomi 3.21
 

The S4 is so-so in bless context since the Dai-Oni's don't benefit from it. Its good in that it guarantees access to astral. All considered - not a bad choice.

Re: Yomi 3.21
 

Dai-Onis don't benefit from S4?
It doesn't help them with expansion, but later on, any MR bonus to thugs/SC is golden.

Re: Yomi 3.21
 

I think he means that Dai Onis already have 18MR and S bless doesn't raise MR if it's already 18 or higher.

Re: Yomi 3.21
 

Astral bless doesn't boost magic resistance above a value I can't quite remember. It might be 18. Dai Oni probably have so high magic resistance the Astral bless doesn't increase it any higher.

Re: Yomi 3.21
 

Oh. I'd forgotten about that. Makes sense now.

Thanks

Re: Yomi 3.21
 

Coming late to the conversation, what with the winter holiday and all, but here's some stuff I said a few months back while trying to stick up for 'vanilla' Yomi, which should certainly come in handy here for a guide:

"Dai-Oni make outstanding battle mages, able to cast all the heavy hitting spells from Fire, Earth, and Death, once you deal with their horrible encumbrance. Get them out of their armor (the lighter the better, but anything, even Steel Plate, is better than their heavy samurai armor), give them some reinvigoration items, and maybe even think about a light Earth bless. Oh, and casting Summon Earth Power at the beginning of battle is a good idea too (all of them can do it).

It helps to think of them as four different units, depending on the random. If you get one with F3, well, Phoenix Power will get you to F4, good enough for Falling Fires spam, etc. Give him a Skull of Fire, and now he can cast every Fire magic spell in the book, including BE spells like Heat from Hell, Fire Storm, etc.. Give him a Flame Helmet too, and well, he'll hand it right back saying he doesn't even need it Oh, and Warriors of Muspelheim will make all your 50% FR Oni 100% FR.

If you get the guy with the A1 random, think Aim plus anything. I like it with Bane Fire, a very nasty spell if it can be cast with any accuracy! Late in the game, with a Death booster, the niche yet powerful spells Wailing Winds and Wind of Death become available. Oh, I almost forgot, with Earth Power or a booster, they can also cast Rain of Stones, a cheap, brutal spell for Yomi to use with its robust demon units (keep the Bakemono and Sorcerers at home for this one).

The E3 guys? Boots get you to E4, Earth Power to E5. And now you can cast every Earth spell too! All those cool buffs - for starters though, think End of Weakness, and your Oni soldiers now have, well, average protection, but still with only an Encumbrance of 1. Blade Wind is nice, but Magma Eruption is better. Petrify, Weapons of Sharpness, and finally, the Army spells.

Oh, and finally, the guys with D4. That's right, Yomi has access to natural D4 mages, so D6 with Staff and Helmet (or if you're super lucky, you just might get a D5 10% random that will get you to D7 without Artifacts or empowerment - I got two of those in my last MP game, used 'em as cheap Tartarian factories!). Darkness is a given (even Bakemono have 50% Darkvision). Judicious use of Shadow Blast can be powerful. Drain Life and Disintegrate for enemy Thugs/SCs. Fear/Terror, Cloud of Death, Plague, etc. etc..

Oh, your E3 Dai-Oni can forge Dwarven Hammers immediately. You should eventually have a lot of them floating around. Site search like mad, get those gems flowing in, and forge away!"

And:

"Remember, Yomi has the paths and gem income to forge all three research boosters (and at a discount with Hammers). That should help out greatly with long term research."

And:

"You can gamble, and go without an awake SC pretender in exchange for excellent scales (you certainly don't need much of a bless, or much help with magic paths).

In this case, Kuro-Oni can make excellent early expansion troops, in conjunction with other forces. Very expensive, yes (hence the need for good scales), but they have MR 15, comparable to other elite recruitables, and thus wont be bothered much by indy priests. They've got ranged fire and poison attacks (both magic attacks, by the way), an Attack score of 14 (with their awesome weapon), Strength 16 and a weapon that does 8 damage (awesome again), and 24 HP - in their first life (their 2nd life is ethereal)! Meaning, they've got staying power, despite their meager 6 Protection and lack of shield, plus the offensive power to hack through the heaviest armor similar to giants.

Yes, they're very vulnerable to missile weapons, so use decoys. Anything will do, but indy infantry with shields are best (meaning, they'll last longest). Place them front and center, with 'hold' orders. Put the Oni on the flank - they'll throw fire and poison as the enemy advances, and then close. Back them up with a pack of cheap bakemono archers to suppress enemy archers. Works against most indy types, and you can mix it around for outliers like barbarians and cavalry.

One downside? You can't lead them with an indy commander, you'll need a Demon General, hurting your early research. But you can make up for it later with your ability to forge all research boosters, and hopefully with building other castles quickly.

Another downside, depending on your foe, is that you may have trouble with an early war (I said it was a gamble). But with luck and good diplomacy, you can still expand fairly rapidly in the early game, and have the good scales to power you into the mid and late game."

All this was from the

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showt...highlight=Yomi

thread.

Also, I haven't looked at Yomi since the latest patch, but don't they have a bunch of new summons (or is that Shinuyama)?

Re: Yomi 3.21
 

Mostly Jomon, actually. Gozu Mezu (D3, 7 gems at Conj 6, summons Ox-head and Horse-face with magical weapons) is available for Yomi and probably Shinuyama too.

Re: Yomi 3.21
 

I didn't talk too much about the Dai Oni stuff because I figured enough people already know what to do with them =). I like the rain of stones idea though. Keep in mind, your hannayas should be ok with it they can barkskin themselves =D.

Yeah access to astral is too yummy for me to pass up. =) The s4 is just a coincidence because it lets you get the cap + crystal coins for an easy boost to s6 for the ring of wizardry.

Re: Yomi 3.21
 

I'm wondering what God can provide a W9N4E4 bless for Yomi at a decent cost. Any suggestion?

EDIT: Nevermind, gone for a (rather unthematical) Frost Father. Lol, W9A4E4N4D4, Or3Sl3De1Ma1dom4impr, 0 points left. :D Maybe I can reduce sloth for death, I like bandit raiders. I'll test, this intrigues me.

Re: Yomi 3.21
 

Lady of Fortune. Monolith.

On a small map/aggressive game an awake W9 dragon can work as well with the obvious pros and cons.

No access to astral hurts though and you better pray you find indie S mages.

Re: Yomi 3.21
 

I've alway s found misfortune 1 free points. You could also max out the temp scale for s4. You certainly have no need for Death 4 on your frost father either. The death blessing is blech (hannayas aren't sacred) and you have access to death 4 anyway off Dai Oni's. =)

Re: Yomi 3.21
 

With Yomi I always go Heat-3 because it seems to take effect really slowly, and most demon troops including the Dai Oni have FR, and I don't like my cold-blooded Hannyas having to fight in cold provinces.

Re: Yomi 3.21
 

Agreed. In both my recommendations, I chose heat for that purpose as well. The income hit does cost you though so I'd still take base no temp scales if there was a choice but as it stands, it's a good option for where to get your points. =)

Re: Yomi 3.21
 

Hot seemed appropriate to me too (btw Yomi could use having a preferred scale of at least H+1 imho) but doesn't that interfere with the cold attack of that kind of onis you suggest for expanding?

Re: Yomi 3.21
 

Well I didn't suggest the cold attack oni's. =) Though I believe the cold attack isn't actually modded by the temp scale anyway. (I think it has a chance to freeze which slightly is, but most things won't survive past two hits for it to matter =D)

Re: Yomi 3.21
 

I had some good luck with an awake Dom9 N8 Dragon. The dragon helps immensely with initial expansion. Mid game your Oni kings starts coming in with the large regeneration blessing and some Summoning 3 Construction 4, Alteration 3. Missing the reinvigoration kind of hurts, but it is far easier to make up good reinvigoration than making up for the good regen bless. Summon earth power, a girdle of might gives all of the reinvigoration you need. Due to not having to put ring of regen and with some luck you could actually shoot for mother oak/ gift of health. I research Ench 2 to get perosnal regen for the dragon early. With flying The dragon can pick easy targets until regen is researched. Once regen is researched chances of an affliction are hugely reduced.

Re: Yomi 3.21
 

In Vanilla Dominions the dragon has Dom 2. Allowing for scales of N8, Dom 9, Order3, sloth 3, heat 3, Mis 2, magic 1, growh 1.

In CBM the dragon starts at Dom 1. So the dragon is 2 more scales costlier to get the Awe. Which makes it a bad deal.

Re: Yomi 3.21
 

Its dominion strength 1 in both cases.

Re: Yomi 3.21
 

You'd have to work awfully hard at convincing me a dragon's boost to early expansion is worth the loss of astral. =) Even in blitzes, a luck pendant is oh so useful for your dai oni's. hehe.

Re: Yomi 3.21
 

After rereading some fo the earlier posts, I am confused on how Baalz is planning on blessing the Oni generals he is expanding with. I tried using indy priests, but that is hit and miss at best. You would have to bring along some archers to have the priest stand behind so he doesn't run ahead into melee. At any rate, thats what I've figured out so far...