Para dropped Vehicles
 

Bit harsh. Having a regular opponent is great fun, because occasionally you can pull some silly stuff which you both laugh about. My Main PBEM opponent and I have been playing since SP1 on his 386.

Last one I did was throwing a pair of Challenger 1's out the back of a pair of C-130's to give some support to my SAS team's. :D The Whole lot landed on one of the objective area's in the middle of the map. Just in time to give the Commie tank rush a surprise.

Re: Naval Gun on Land Map
 

Yes that would a RUSH, and given stuff other Commanders in other battles have tried thoughout history not that unreasonable! Isn't the SAS Motto " He who Dares Wins". So the question is now Listy did you win??

Bob out:D

Re: Naval Gun on Land Map
 

I don't know. because this was back in the day when the game Imploded when you had too many air units. I do Know one made it down, only losing two crew men.

Re: Naval Gun on Land Map
 

Of course with the new split crews para-dropping, which really only will affect MBT (not enough transports that can drop AFV in WW2) then dropping a few crews separated from their MBT in the rear zone is a likely way for his HQ to get a couple of kills chasing them down before they recombine...

Andy

Re: Naval Gun on Land Map
 

Duh! - got my message boards crossed, this is MBT...

Anyway - the new para drop routine splits crewed units on loading into a transport plane, so each element parachutes on its own chute. Crews (if they survive and if the vehicle/mortar/ATG/mule team etc survives) will need to waddle over to their kit and recombine, should the enemy be so accommodating as to let them do so.

No instant drive-aways any more.

Cheers
Andy

Re: Naval Gun on Land Map
 

Great :D I recently got my rear handed to me by a massed Para battalion drop with support Vehicles. Funny really. You'd think a Dug in Company with Bunkered Heavy weapons on 4 sides of an open drop area would cause more than a couple of Casualties. ;)

Re: Naval Gun on Land Map
 

How will the crews be treated? Like "ordinary" or like "para-qualified"?
I assume the vehicles themselves would take into account "airborne-or-not", right?

Re: Naval Gun on Land Map
 

I have no idea, quite frankly. The main point of the code was to make it less easy for some "gamey" MBT tactics of dropping an M1A2 on the objective and have them ready to go. Airborne APC for example already have less chance of damage on impact. All crews are the same class - the game has no idea where they came from - so are likely to be ordinary grunts for paradropping.

Cheers
Andy

Re: Naval Gun on Land Map
 

so we should expect heavyer casualities than with paras?what about the vehicle, it can get destroyed/rendered ineffective?(just noticed, airborne light tank is now at some advantage compared to normal MBTs, may be worth the points)

Re: Naval Gun on Land Map
 

dropping support weapons and vehicles on silk hankies will result in a high attrition rate.

Vehicle can have a destroyed, or track damage result all on its own, so even if the crew survives then it may be dead or an immobile pillbox.

But not a lot of real armies drop anything other than light infantry out of cargo planes these days. Only the Soviets really would have done so, and the high numbers they would drop would offset the attrition. Everyone else that parachutes will only drop some infantry to take an airfield etc, and then freight the heavy stuff in.

And if it stops silly beggars dropping an MBT platoon into your rear zone as a coup-de main in a PBEM, then fine. Fine too if they do so, my HQ and his APC and any armed ammo carriers and SP-mortars etc in the back zone can then have fun chasing down the crews, too :).

Andy

Re: Naval Gun on Land Map
 

I only did it once! :D

I wonder if we can still chuck Ammo Dumps and such out the back of a Herc, as a Ghetto bomber (sorry been playing Supreme Commander too much recently).

Hang on, that raises a thought. Possibly more of an issue for WW2 though. What about ammo containers? Many of the scenario's I've seen with German Para's (on all sorts of games) have them running about looking for ammo containers to bomb up their weapons. That just adds a level of delay that will slow the para's down to a terrible level.

Re: Naval Gun on Land Map
 

I think this further creates the need for a special "bomb" unit for this work. Its already been pretty inconstant with crewed ammo carriers, but now the unit would just be immobilized rather than being potentially damaged.

Do the immobilized vehicles take damage on landing without their crew? Or is it just crew casualties that affect immediate effectiveness after drop?

Re: Naval Gun on Land Map
 

Why not actually read my post above?
Vehicle can be destroyed all on its own. Destroyed ammo vehicles should do their usual thing, but if it stops silly things like parachuted ammo containers being used as impromptu bombs, then I am not in the slightest bit worried. (There is a level bomber class to dump explosives with).

Andy

Re: Naval Gun on Land Map
 

Umm...likewise?

So vehicles can either be immobilized or destroyed, this was clear, and pretty much always been the case even before the split drop IIRC. My question was effectively, are 100%, destroyed, or immobilized the only status options for a vehicle on drop? Do they take damage (including weapon knock outs) without being immobilized or is this linked to the number of crew that survive landing. I don't think this was the case in the past, but I was curious since there had been this other fiddling around with how vehicle drops work.

I guess I can pretty much answer that question for myself (and I'm pretty sure now I'm remembering things wrong, but I haven't dropped a vehicle in a game in a long time), since to achieve the destruction or immobilization the vehicle has to take some damage, so the drop likely increases the probability of one of these events rather than minor damage. Those instances are likely quite rare. Does the drop potentially knock out weapons though? I would assume so.

As to the specialized "bomb" unit with crew set to 0 (which registers as destroyed), it should still allow for converting ammo carrier units into improvised bombs for those of us who wish to do so. Even before the split the detonation without this was inconsistent at best, which I've already noted. The split should have no effect on such purpose built units, and no effect on the previous inconsistency when using crewed ammo carrier units to try and achieve this.

Re: Para dropped Vehicles
 

I finally got fed up with reading posts about para drops on a thread about naval guns on land maps and that's why these were all moved


Don

Re: Naval Gun on Land Map
 

It appears we could answer these questions all day and still generate more questions so in the spirt of " seeing is believing and understanding" what I would suggest is this:

WW2 has the same code already applied to it that MBT will have when the next patch for it is released in a few months. The simple way to find out how this will work in MBT is to create an air transport in WW2 equivalent to the type of air transports in MBT that would be capable of droping vehicles and some test vehicles in say.... the BLUE OOB.... then proceded to drop them on a map full of hostile forces and watch what happens when they land

Simple.... no ?

It seems much simpler than going over and over the same thing in "hypotheticals"

Don

Re: Naval Gun on Land Map
 

Andy a question as I was thinking of doing a scenerio with all those air dropable Russian vehicles as never use them. I belive (not verified) they drop with crews inside.
would still need a rule as believe reset suspension on landing so was going to say cant move on first turn of landing as 3 minutes till battle ready.

Not to big a problem could chuck out of gliders I suppose its just landing hex is more accurate.

Re: Naval Gun on Land Map
 

Simpler to ask questions of people when one is at work and these thoughts come to mind and where one doesn't have access to the game. I figure its easier to ask people who wrote the code what the answer to a yes or no question is than to run a number of tests to determine the results for myself. I will go run the tests myself.

I would also like to add that I would much rather be ignored than talked down to. If you don't want to answer what you see as inane questions that could be more easily answered by user tests or read somewhere in the manual then just don't say anything. Most of the questions I've asked have been couched in an understanding that the game engine isn't capable of all things, and that it is a game and certain decisions need to be made (or forced because of the game engine). When I've been wrong about my assertions I've admitted it quickly (at least in my mind). And so the logical answer to all this is that if I don't like it, I know where I can go. And I will. I will no longer pollute the discourse here with questions, or anything else for that matter. I will continue to play an amazing game I thank you both for bringing to an updated platform and for putting so much effort into constantly improving. I will even thank you for taking our concerns, questions, ideas, and suggestions into consideration. I'm am just fed up with being chided on an internet forum over really little things. And I don't have to. I have no doubt that each future version will incorporate new and seriously improved features such as the para drop code.

Re: Para dropped Vehicles
 

All I did was offer a quick solution to the problem becasue every time Andy answered more questions popped up and the simplest solution is to see it actually happening in the game and that is possible by running tests with the current version of SPWW2.

I find it more than a bit puzzling that simple answer could be turned into "I'm am just fed up with being chided on an internet forum over really little things."

Don