Conceptual Balance Mod 1.4
 

Some of the changes, from 1.3:

*Many Bogarus and Jomon summons improved.

*Boulders bypass shields (modding method thanks to Sombre).

*Several low level blood summons improved.

*Hidden in snow/sand cheaper.

*Ether gate slightly cheaper, and ether warriors map move 2.

*Man's wardens cheaper and map move 2.

*Bogarus cavalry bug fixed.

*Son of Fenris cheaper, gained wolf summoning in dominion, and auto casts Howl.

*Enchanted forest bug fixed.

*Death bless +1 damage.

*Clockwork horrors cheaper.

*Oracle got fortune telling instead of gem production.

*MA T'ien Ch'i fortunetelling improved.

*EA Ulm warriors are more ambidextrous.

*Bakemono-sho made size 1.

*Farstrike no longer precision 100 (targeted mages too much)

*Many units missed by IW's Great Stealth Upgrade fixed (ghost, ghost king, vampire queen, sirin, likho, great druid, etc.).

*Eater of the Dead cheaper and further improved.

*Light cavalry without lances made even cheaper.

*Some Ashdod mages reduced in power or made more expensive.

Re: Conceptual Balance Mod 1.4
 

Split version.

Re: Conceptual Balance Mod 1.4
 

Thanks QM! Hehe, I am gonna miss Farstrike - the poor man's soul slay in CB 1.3! :)

Re: Conceptual Balance Mod 1.4
 

Ashdod mage changes:
Zamzummite lost one E/D Random.
Talmai Elder now 500 from 400 gold
Rephaite Sage now 200 from 175 gold
Hope I didn't miss anything...

Re: Conceptual Balance Mod 1.4
 

Woo! :) New version, nice :cool:

Only a minor point... May I ask why the improvement of the Death blessing? Death at high level is so strong as it is imho...

(I'll miss Farstrike too :o )

Re: Conceptual Balance Mod 1.4
 

Death magic itself is pretty strong, yes. Ideally I would have liked to balance the truly bad level 9 blesses like air and blood, but unfortunately that's not possible. But death 9 certainly doesn't measure up to blesses like earth, and it is one of the few I am able to mod, so hopefully some change is better than nothing.

Re: Conceptual Balance Mod 1.4
 

Thanks for this update, I really like the changes!

I noticed a little bug: you forgot an #end after the Great Black Bull, so the Son of Fenrir changes don't work.

I found some typos in the descriptions, I can fix them and post the changes here if you like.

Re: Conceptual Balance Mod 1.4
 

It's ok. No one will use the Son of Fenrir anyway!

Re: Conceptual Balance Mod 1.4
 

Apparently the Lord Warden has too much on his mind to keep pace with his troops, and is still 1/9 rather than 2/9. :shock:


And thanks for the change to Hidden in XXX, I am looking forward to making use of them from time to time now. :D

Re: Conceptual Balance Mod 1.4
 

Thanks for the bug hunting, I may make a 1.41 version in a week or so if more appear.

meister_maigi: Any proofreading would of course be greatly appreciated.

Re: Conceptual Balance Mod 1.4
 

Is the improved arena mod already in there? If not I think that is a serious ommision.

Re: Conceptual Balance Mod 1.4
 

Yeah, adding Endo's arena mod would be a great idea.

Re: Conceptual Balance Mod 1.4
 

Oh, also: Thanks for all the work on this QM. CBM seems to be being used in a majority of MP games now, and I think it's really improving the experience.

Re: Conceptual Balance Mod 1.4
 

BTW, llamabeast: fix that problem with Single Age mods for your games :)

QM: do it fast, I want to use it in my new game [I hope to start it around Monday].

Re: Conceptual Balance Mod 1.4
 

Woohoo! Thanks QM! Love this mod!!! :D

Re: Conceptual Balance Mod 1.4
 

In the name of the silent majority of SPers, I solenly declar WHOOOT !!!! And thanks for all that work.

Re: Conceptual Balance Mod 1.4
 

I proofread the file, here are some typos I found:

Line 62, 71, 81, 90 (Soldiers): ".. Some are remenants of the old army " (remnants)

Line 106 (Lady of Springs): "Her will and her great pitcher brings life to the land" =bring
Line 185 (Monolith): inhawbiting=inhabiting , cermonies=ceremonies

Line 214 (White Bull): time immwmorial=time immortal?, bland rage=blind rage?, bulls=bull's, umatched=unmatched,

Line 222 (Black Bull): time immwmorial=time immortal?, slyer=slayer, dominannce=dominance, "The Great Black Bull posses legendary stmina"= possesses lengendary stamina, #end missing

Line 229 (Son of Fenrir): berzerk=berserk
Line 422 (Father of Serpens): Serpentd=Serpents
Line 451 (Lord of the Summer Plague): draught=drought
Line 477 (lord of Rebirth): iss=is
Line 527 (Jade Emperor): hange fate=change fate, reduce unrest prevent = "and" missing

Line 586 (Lord of the Forest): forst=forest, Forst has retuened=Forest has returned, beats=beasts,

Line 649 (Mother of Serpents): acomponied=accompanied,
Line 684 (Celestial General): #decr=#descr, Different spellings of "Pantokrator"

Line 770 (Phoenix): spring=sprung, the first=remove one space,
lcks the physical strgth=lacks the physical strength

Line 1555 (Carnutes Warrior): berzerk=berserk
Line 2299 (Vanara): sociecties=societies, maxes=axes
Line 2421 (Bandaraja): 2x thier=their, weapon in of itself=in an of itself? or just "itself",

Line 2588 (Polypal Mother): Aboleths, over the centuries= no comma, neraby=nearby

Line 3167 (Prince General): Thier=Their
Line 3428 (Vaettir): THey=They
Line 3558 (Bandar Noble): see Bandaraja
Line 9760 (Karasa Tengu): It is a mischievous and often harasses humans= mischievous demon?

Sometimes you spelled Pantokrator "pantocrator"

Re: Conceptual Balance Mod 1.4
 

I read the Dm with proton, and found two typos :

abysia EA : warmaster (unit 118) has a #end too much just before unit ID. (line 1926 at 1929).

vanara warrior has its #end spelled #ned (line 10126 at 10131)

I couldn't check those two ingame, as the first is a hero, and the second an indep (I think)

Re: Conceptual Balance Mod 1.4
 

Is there any chance the agarthan boulders can be changed to the same boulders as Niefle? Ie., same weapon?

As I recall either:

a). Fire bless effects do not apply to agarthan boulders as there is no Agarthan Fire Boulder

or

b). Flaming arrows did not apply do agarthan boulders.

We're pretty sure the rocks are the same - and as fire is a national pick for the agarthans not the niefles fire boulders makes much more thematic sense for the former, if anyone.

Re: Conceptual Balance Mod 1.4
 

Fire bless doesn't apply to any missile weapons.

You must be thinking of flaming arrows. However flaming arrows on boulders is pretty much pointless anyway, especially now they can't be parried.

Re: Conceptual Balance Mod 1.4
 

Ashdod nerfs far too minimal.

great work though, QM

Re: Conceptual Balance Mod 1.4
 

I am a little confused


Base (no mod)
Black Hood 25 gld 15 rsc
Styag 50 gld 23 rsc
Grid 30 gld 28 rsc
Malaia 50 gld 42 rsc
Knyaz 60 gld 14 rsc
Veliki 130 gld 21 rsc

CB 1.3
Black Hood 25 gld 17 rsc (has hoof matches 1.3 notes)
Styag 35 gld 25 rsc (matches 1.3 notes)
Grid 30 gld 27 rsc (has warhorse hoof)
Malaia 50 gld 40 rsc (has warhorse hoof)
Knyaz 40 gld 14 rsc (gold + warhorse hoof as per notes)
Veliki 60 gld 21 rsc (gold + warhorse hoof as per notes)


CB 1.4
Black Hood 17 gld 17 rsc (notes don't mention gold change)
Styag 30 gld 25 rsc (notes say 35 gold)
Grid 25 gld 30 rsc (notes don't mention gold change, missing warhorse hoof)
Malaia 45 gld 42 rsc (notes don't mention gold change)
Knyaz 35 gld 14 rsc (notes say cost 40 gold)
Veliki 50 gld 21 rsc (notes say cost 60 gold)


Also in another thread someone mentioned CBM would mean Bogarus was no longer so Production reliant, but the resource costs are higher on 3 of the 4 cav units. How does such a drrastic change in their base rresource cost result in them being more expensive on resources?

Am I missing something? And are the notes or the mod itself correct as far as gold costs and the warhorse hoof go?

Sorry to be a pain.

Re: Conceptual Balance Mod 1.4
 

There are a few things going on there, one is some readme errors (mainly I forgot to update the readme for the 1.4 gold cost tweaks). On top of that there was some weapon buggines with cavalry in 1.3 that was fixed in 1.4. But I think the most confusing thing is CB reduces the base resource cost of cavalry - not the equipment cost. So the listed rec prices are just a reduction of arbitrary barding rec values present in in the base game.

Re: Conceptual Balance Mod 1.4
 

Not pointless when you're throwing them *at* a niefle. Or a Lanka.

Re: Conceptual Balance Mod 1.4
 

ok so there is not really a drastic reduction in the resource requirement for Bogarus to field cavalry correct? So I would still need to rely on high production values to be able to field a decent cav force.

Re: Conceptual Balance Mod 1.4
 

yes - but it is not just a question of the resource cost, but what you get for that cost. The best bogarus hvy cavalry now costs 45 instead of 50, which is nice but no earth-shaker, but has a double 12 pt warhorse hoof attack instead of the single 10 pointer it had before. That's a real improvement in combat effectiveness that justifes plumping points into production.

Re: Conceptual Balance Mod 1.4
 

Ok so their effectiveness has gone up but their resource cost as stayed the same, so much more worth the investment. How can you see the warhorse hoof is a double attack btw? (again my apologies for the inane questions) it looks to me like the single normal hoof was just replaced by a single warhorse hoof.

The standaard malaia has a broadsword a lance and a normal hoof.
The 1.4 malaia has a broadsword,warhorse hoof and a lance.
The 1.3 malaia has a broadsword a warhorse hoof and a normal hoof.

Thanks again for your help and time in answering these base questions!

Re: Conceptual Balance Mod 1.4
 

According to the documentation, star of heroes has a vastly increased area of effect.

However, while that was true in 1.3, it is no longer true in 1.4 so either the aoe got dropped or its a documentation error. More likely the latter.

Re: Conceptual Balance Mod 1.4
 

It shouldn't have double warhorse hoof attacks - none of the other heavy cav do. Sounds like another bug. Poor Bogarus cavalary :[

Re: Conceptual Balance Mod 1.4
 

Eh, as far as I can see they only have one hoof attack. ;)

Re: Conceptual Balance Mod 1.4
 

yeah sorry - it was late.

clearly they need another one!11 ;)

Re: Conceptual Balance Mod 1.4
 

They need a Vicious Russian Horse Bite attack, at STR-5.

:happy:

Re: Conceptual Balance Mod 1.4
 

While updating the forging references, I discovered that the Demon Whip is Construction-2 in CBM 1.4

The Demon Whip has the same AOE-1 Small Area Fire effect as the Fire Brand; in other words, automatic AOE-1 damage is now attainable at the Construction-2 tier.

This seems like a disruptive technology to me. Won't this be a boon to fire nations? Square-clearing thugs before the 1st winter? Thoughts?

Re: Conceptual Balance Mod 1.4
 

Is it automatic, or does it require a hit? In other words, is it secondaryeffectalways like the brands, or secondaryeffect? I imagine it is secondaryeffectalways as aoe weapons usually are.

Re: Conceptual Balance Mod 1.4
 

I certainly hope someone builds some thugs with them, as it is I don't think I have seen one forged yet, ever. It's possible const 2 is too early, but there are a lot of great items even base game at const 2.

Re: Conceptual Balance Mod 1.4
 

As I recall, the demon whips are F1D1, which restricts its gamebalance issues somewhat (as opposed to straight F2, for example).

I don't think it will hurt balance too much. The major candidate for examination I suppose is Abysia.

Re: Conceptual Balance Mod 1.4
 

Under CBM 1.3 the Master of the Games - Multi hero for Ermor
and probably pythium, has at least a typo, and possibly an error.

attacks are generic sword, generic sword,,

ie., either an extra comma or a missing attack.
I presume its the same problem in 1.4

Re: Conceptual Balance Mod 1.4
 

They are fire one so I imagine you might see a lot of them from now on, perhaps not, it's not like they'll have a bigger spot in the mid-end game than earlier ;)

Re: Conceptual Balance Mod 1.4
 

weren't they F1B1?

Re: Conceptual Balance Mod 1.4
 

Fire 1 Construction 4 in 1.3
Fire 1 Blood 2 without CBM

Re: Conceptual Balance Mod 1.4
 

returning to the master of games, for both ermor and pythium
I believe I have located the bug.

They reference weapons 770, and 771 which are not in the .dm file, nor are they referenced as weapons in Edi's db. At least not 3.17.

Re: Conceptual Balance Mod 1.4
 

Lol, a great reduction.
Still a bit of Blood wasn't a bad touch for a "Demon Whip"...

Re: Conceptual Balance Mod 1.4
 

Due to a bug, Nature, added to a pretender, gives no benefit, unlike virtually every other path.

I'd like to suggest adding regeneration to the Green Dragon

Re: Conceptual Balance Mod 1.4
 

What? What bug? What benefit?

None of the other sorceries give physical benefit to mages with them, just increased leadership ability. The increased supply creation from Nature isn't that much worse than, say, ability to lead few more magic beings (Astral) or undead (Death, Blood).

Re: Conceptual Balance Mod 1.4
 

Earth gives prot.
Fire gives attack
air give precision.... etc.

IF you are a being that already has regen (gaia etc) at one point nature used to increase your regen.

Many of the mages got some bonus under CBM. I'm suggestion something I believe would be thematic for the dragons. Dragons are *not* popular chassis, and so like many of the other unpopular choices, a minor boost would not be untoward to increase competitiveness

Re: Conceptual Balance Mod 1.4
 

Nature gives supply bonus.

Re: Conceptual Balance Mod 1.4
 

Plus more years to get old of age, 50% bonus per level or something.

Re: Conceptual Balance Mod 1.4
 

Doesn't have to do with Returning, I think, and definitely not with CBM, because IIRC I got this on new heroes in a game of mine as well. I reported this, but so far the understanding is that it's random data corruption that can't be traced to a specific section of the code and isn't worth the time to hunt for it. If you found a way to reproduce this problem, then go for it and describe how so that the problematic part of code might be dug out and corrected.

Re: Conceptual Balance Mod 1.4
 

Why do you mention Returning lch?

Re: Conceptual Balance Mod 1.4
 

... and water increases defense. However, only the four elemental paths give stat bonuses.

Astral increases magic leadership, Death and Blood increase undead leadership, Nature increases maxage and gives supply bonus.