Casting Globals when 5 are up
 

Recently I had a discussion about the situation where there are 5 globals up, at least one of which is your own, and you cast a new global.

The question was whether the new global would randomly overwrite one of the existing globals with equal chances, or whether it would prefer to overwrite one of your own globals.

I have done some testing, and it looks like it just tries to replace any one of the five existing globals with equal chances, regardless of who cast it.

Re: Casting Globals when 5 are up
 

yeah, the manual and the devs have stated it as such. I found some post in the Dom II forums where "someone" claimed it targetted your own global first... dunno where I got that from. ;)

I'll blame Zen :p

Re: Casting Globals when 5 are up
 

I'm 80% sure I recall casting a global when I only had one of the five up, and somebody else's got replaced.

Re: Casting Globals when 5 are up
 

For me the real question always was what happens if there are 4 globals up and 1 free slot and 2 people cast globals. Will 2nd one try to replace one of random 5 or battle the other one cast that turn? It should be the first case, but I have never tested it.

Re: Casting Globals when 5 are up
 

Doesn't this put a lot of value on the cheap as chips globals found in CBM? You can cast them as cheap, unreliable dispels.

Re: Casting Globals when 5 are up
 

Well, "cheap" in that they don't cost Pearls. But the mechanics of overwriting and dispelling are the same, just when overwriting you have no choice of which global to hit, and you are using different gem types.

Re: Casting Globals when 5 are up
 

Oh so it doesn't overwrite unless you put more gems in than the one it tries to overwrite?

Re: Casting Globals when 5 are up
 

Indeed, read your manual, shame on you. :p

Re: Casting Globals when 5 are up
 

so in summary it first choose one of the 5 globals at random and then overwrites it if you have used enogh gems, right ?

Re: Casting Globals when 5 are up
 

I would look in the manual for answers if it wasn't wrong about so many things. I know it's right more often than it's wrong, but that isn't good enough to make it worth trusting.

Re: Casting Globals when 5 are up
 

Well to clarify, base casting cost does not count towards this.

Assuming both casters were of exact level needed to cast a spell, if the first global has 50 gems above casting cost, then yours needs 51 above casting cost to overwrite it. So casting a 30 spell cheapie global with 81 gems could theoretically overwrite an expensive gem producing global with 130 gems in it. But, hit the wrong one, and you've still wasted 81 gems. ;)

Re: Casting Globals when 5 are up
 

There's also 2 DRNs involved.

If the first global has 50 gems above casting cost, and yours has 51 above casting cost, you have around a 50% chance of overwriting it. You need 51+DRN > 50+DRN.

Re: Casting Globals when 5 are up
 

Dammit. I was just reminding someone the other day that pretty much everything in Dom3 has a DRN attached, and here I go forgetting it. >.>

Re: Casting Globals when 5 are up
 

I was told having a higher relative path makes your global more difficult to dispel, where does that factor in?

Re: Casting Globals when 5 are up
 

Each level above the base required counts as 5 extra gems for dispel purposes.

I don't know if wielding extra boosters when you cast, to raise your self above the base level, adds these 5 extra gems.

I don't know if it's easier to dispel a global that was cast by a caster whose natural level in the path was lower than the minimum, so he was forced to wear boosters to cast it.

Re: Casting Globals when 5 are up
 

I have heard in a previous discussion that the dispel looks at the caster's level *at the point the dispel is cast*. So if you boosted up with items to get the spell cast in the first place and then resassign those items, you'll be easy meat for a dispel.

Re: Casting Globals when 5 are up
 

So it can go negative too? This is one of those difficult problems to test, because of the DRN.

Re: Casting Globals when 5 are up
 

I'm not sure but I think it's impossible to have a negative modifier. This is based on the bug(?) with the gem-discount sites. If you cast a global with 20% discount, let's say brining the base cost down to 80 from 100 gems, you will only receive a bonus modifier for gems above 100. However you won't get any negative modifier from casting it with only 80 gems.

But maybe bonus from spell level is handled differently.

Re: Casting Globals when 5 are up
 

AFAIK boosters don't count for the bonus +5 gems/level, but you cannot go negative because of it.

It also isn't a DRN, it's a drn. 1 die, not 2. At least if the book is right on this, pretty hard to tell.

Re: Casting Globals when 5 are up
 

Playing against the AI I've never seen it take out one of the AI's globals, it always targets my own.

Re: Casting Globals when 5 are up
 

That's because when you play against the AI you probably usually have at least 3 of the 5 global slots. ;)

I frequently see the AIs fight over global slots, sometimes for the same spell, sometimes a rivalry between Eyes of God/Dark Skies/Maelstrom/etc.

-Max

Re: Casting Globals when 5 are up
 

But it's happened too often to be chance. If all 5 slots are full I have *NEVER* knocked out a random AI spell if one of my own is up. At this point I no longer even try.

Yeah, the AI's do take out each other's spells at times.

Re: Casting Globals when 5 are up
 

Hmmm. Does it always happen with the same nation? Especially if that nation is at the very top or bottom of the nation list? I'm wracking my brains trying to think of why you could have a different experience than everyone else; although my guess is still that it's just chance.

-Max

Re: Casting Globals when 5 are up
 

It's been long enough since I experimented with it that I don't recall details. I'm in a position I can do some tests, though...

Re: Casting Globals when 5 are up
 

Loren, was this under Dom III, or a previous version?

Re: Casting Globals when 5 are up
 

Just this last week in an SP game, the AI had filled most global slots with low cost crap globals before I got one up. When I was ready to cast my second global, I grit my teeth as the turn processed, and then smiled when it was cast successfully, without bringing down my other spell.

<3

This was under 3.21~

Re: Casting Globals when 5 are up
 

3. I never heard of Dominions until 3.

At this point I've taken a dozen shots at his Eyes of God, 20 gems over, no extra caster levels. (+20 gems is not going to take out any of my spells). Unfortunately, I have no way of knowing what power his spell is cast at other than by trying to dispel it. My experience is the AI usually doesn't put extra gems into it's spells, though.

Re: Casting Globals when 5 are up
 

Well, not generally, but 20 gems over is pretty weak. Try like 50 gems over. That should do it.

Re: Casting Globals when 5 are up
 

AIs frequently create Pretenders with high path, thus their GEs are expected to have extra strength.

Re: Casting Globals when 5 are up
 

That could endanger the globals I have up--they're all at +50 but a couple of them used all but one caster level to cast.

I guess I could run the game a bit and recast those globals way over so I don't risk taking them out. It's one I've decided is won but there is still a lot going on and the turn generation is long even if I do nothing.

Re: Casting Globals when 5 are up
 

If it's just for testing and theorycrafting anyways, just set up your turn how you want it, with the global set to cast. Save and Quit, then copy that saved game folder. Load it and run the turn, if the spell fails, copy the files from the backup folder, load it and execute the turn. Repeat until you get positive results, or you are satisfied with the negative outcome, and want to change how many gems you use, or whatever.

Re: Casting Globals when 5 are up
 

I think it can be worth packing out an unboosted global early on to get some benefits you need quickly (particularly ones that give you more gems) and then sending a bigger one in later that is unlikely to be dispelled.