Questions on Tir na nog
 

Okay, so I decided to give these guys a try, and see how/if they were different from Eriu. They're not much different, but I did notice a few things.
1: They have Sidhe Warriors, which is the Daoine Sidhe Eriu gets, but non-sacred and recruit anywhere. They are probably comparable to many medium strength sacreds for their era.
2: They have an EXCELLENT assasin in the Baobhan Sidhe, who can cast lightning bolt.
3: You've actually got a decently cost effective researcher who is recruit anywhere.
4:Your Tuatha Warrior sacreds have magical weapons, useful at times. They don't really seem worth a bless, as the Baalz bless(E9 N4-6) that would apply to the commanders for raiding really doesn't do much for them.

Right now I'm messing around using Sidhe warriors for expansion, while making an early beeline for evoc 2 to put my Baobhans to good use. After that I am basically following Baalz Eriu guide.

Is there any strategies in particular that would work well with Tir? If it makes any difference, I am using CBM 1.4.

Re: Questions on Tir na nog
 

For fun take a W9 bless and zoom up your defense (and the quickness...).

I agree the assassins are potentially game breaking early, before your opponent can get lightning immunity, and even then, it will cost them alot to stick it on all their commanders they might be worried about.

The assassins are also recruit anywhere (I think...) so you can really spam them if you want to try an assassin heavy tactic. Not sure how much legs that's got, but seemingly you can almost afford to throw them away occasionally if you force your opponents to change their entire strategy to deal with them.

Re: Questions on Tir na nog
 

Yeah, they're pretty darn cool. They do cost 225 gold though, more than a Bean Sidhe, so it could be pretty expensive. On the other hand, imagine someone without native air access trying to deal with them in the early game :)

Re: Questions on Tir na nog
 

Exactly, and frankly, from what I've seen, money is not a real issue for Tir, they expand well, they put up cheap castles, and they can take strong scales.

Their core troops are relatively cheap as well. Though I'm not convinced they fare that well into mid/late game as their native magic isn't anything to be excited about. They lack death, astral, and blood afterall, as well as fire.

Re: Questions on Tir na nog
 

I don't really know if they can get scales that easily. I took an imprisoned Lord of the Forest E9 N6, with O3 S1 G3 and M2. This was in CBM. In hindsight, I would probably skip the growth scales in favor of luck, since you get at least one awesome hero in Lugh Longhanded. I somehow got him despite my scales, but it's almost worth taking luck just for him. The lack of D, S, and B is a problem though.

Re: Questions on Tir na nog
 

Lugh is quite likely the best hero in the game, getting him early is a massive advantage of its own :smirk:

With the bless you are using I like to pair two Sidhe Lords in the same square, scripting one to
Bless->Mistform->Gift of Flight->Soothing Song->Holy Avenger->Attack Rear
And the other to
Protection->Mistform->Soothing->Soothing Song->Holy Avenger->Attack Rear

No gear, hasn't failed against any indie or PD I have seen yet.

Re: Questions on Tir na nog
 

Hrm... I wasn't aware that Lugh was available to Tir? I thought he was just available to Eriu?

Regardless, The Baobhan is quite nice, but that high of a cost for an assassin kinda scares me. IIRC, she has few if any defenses, and so against certain nations (e.g., giants), the Lightning spam may not kill the giant before it reaches you, which would likely end in a dead Sidhe. Also, I don't think the Sidhe herself is Lightning-immune, and if she switches to the close-effect lightning area spell when any enemy gets next to her, she's literally gambling with her life.

So while I agree that she's a good assassin, I don't think that she's necessarily something that should be sent out in large numbers.

Re: Questions on Tir na nog
 

Well you can't use her indiscriminately obviously, but she does start with glamour and decent enough defense, she can buff with RL and mistform (if you feel the need), she can cast phantasmal warrior to spit out some chaff, ... Basically she has a higher cost in gold, but does not need any equipment to be essentially 100% effective against everything other than lightning immune, or giants.

There are tricks you can use, but against the right opponents they will have a difficult time countering her, and if you force your opponent to adjust to your tactics you are ahead of the game.

Re: Questions on Tir na nog
 

One thing I'm finding out though is that she is surprisingly vulnerable to AI priests, who like to script Holy Avenger. That and smiters.

Re: Questions on Tir na nog
 

To be a great assassin you need plenty of hp.
Have you tried scripting air elemental summons for assassinating?
It costs gems, but if lightning bolt alone doesn't do it...

Air elementals are quite great for when you start running into bodyguards.

Re: Questions on Tir na nog
 

Actually I just now learned that spamming phantasmal warrior seems to be a viable assasination tactic against indy commanders at least. I was using it with a research order of alt-3 then ench-3 before I headed up the evoc tree. I can see it working against a lot of nations regular troop movers, and it avoids the problem with Holy Avenger against priests.

Re: Questions on Tir na nog
 

The very best thing about Tir are the recruit-everywhere Sidhe Lords. They are the best recruit-anywhere thug in EA and I think probably the entire game. E9 N4+ gives spectacular results and should be very high on your list of priorities when creating a pretender.

I was able to make an E10 N6 (it makes a difference) Dom 4 Cyclops sleeping with Order 3, Sloth 3 (you don't even need any troops until well into midgame!), Cold 1, Death 2, Misfortune 2, Magic 3.

This builds on a few of the nation's strengths.

*You have no vulnerable, aged mages, and no Blood magic, so Death is actually an easy pick.

*Sloth - well, you have no need of rank and file troops, basically.

*Misfortune is synergistic with Order and I think Luck is really getting more play lately than it should. Maybe something to do with CBM but I still don't see it.

*Magic 3 is required in my view because your researchers are often also your thugs, and so research efficiency is key. You are also shorted on Death magic which doesn't make research any easier.

Best of all, your Sidhe Lords are going to be completely supercharged fighter jets.

Sidhe Lords and Ri, their uber capital-only brother, can both do all of the following:

Bless (+4 protection, +5 reinvigoration, +10% regeneration)
Holy Avenger
Barkskin
Mistform
Elemental Fortitude
Resist Lightning
Resist Poison
Mirror Image
Flight
Cloud Trapeze

All with Glamour, which means you can not be counterattacked via ritual spells, and Cloud Trapeze, Forest Survival, this gives you virtually unlimited movement, and a mandate to strike anywhere on the map.

With any kind of real defensive item like Vine Shield, and a little weapon like a Snake Bladder Stick (script resist poison) or Frost Brand, this becomes a master thug. Add a Lucky Amulet and Girdle of Strength, and a Sidhe Lord becomes more or less a supercombatant. Consider that with your bless, you can add a Shroud of the Battle Saint to nearly any unit and increase their effectiveness and survivability by a large margin. You can do all this the instant you hit Construction 4, which should be your first research goal after Alteration 3.

Just watch your Sidhe Lords and Ris trash anything in their way just with a blessing and Barkskin. Imagine that later with just a few effective items.

The one thing I should probably stress is that you are very thirsty for Astral magic. Find some sorceresses or shamans early and pump them out like crazy.

Re: Questions on Tir na nog
 

Resist poison is only 50% isn't it? It seems like the snake bladder would still kill/cripple you.

Re: Questions on Tir na nog
 

Resist poison is total immunity (well, according to the description... can't say I have run tests)

Re: Questions on Tir na nog
 

The build sounds fun for a blitz, but if you take Misfortune-2 and Death-2, eventually you'll have a plague in your capitol. Tir doesn't get fortune tellers, right?

Re: Questions on Tir na nog
 

No they don't. Personally I would forgo the magic 3 for magic 1 and even growth/death scales. Compared to Eriu, Tir gets the Bean Sidhe recruit anywhere, and she's a decently cost effective researcher.
@Renojustin I don't have much experience, but I doubt a Sidhe Lord can be made into much more than a very good thug. And how does glamour protect against ritual spells?

Re: Questions on Tir na nog
 

Glamour == stealth. Hiding occurs before rituals, so if you stealth away instead of moving, you can't be targeted by most attack rituals. Mind Hunt is the big exception.

Re: Questions on Tir na nog
 

AHHH Thanks. Mind hunt is definitely gonna be a problem though, without any astral at all. Guess you have to hope and pray for a shadow seer to escort your lords.

Re: Questions on Tir na nog
 

I think there's some kind of magic built into Dominions so that if your build is much better if you get a certain hero or indy mage, you will only get that indy mage or hero when you are playing SP.

Hire lots of indy scouts, or if you are so unlucky that you have no indy scouts (entirely possible in EA) or even indy monkeys, hire scouts in your forts when you don't have cash for a mage. Try to sneak a couple scouts into each of the provinces you are attacking.

Re: Questions on Tir na nog
 

I can affirm that this is correct. The Devs have somehow harnessed a malicious spirit and shackled it into the code; I suspect it resides somewhere in the nooks and crannies of the RNG.

Re: Questions on Tir na nog
 

This is sort of Tir na n'og related and I didn't want to start a new thread. Will shock immunity also make you immune to the fatigue damage effect of thunderstrike?

Re: Questions on Tir na nog
 

Answer: Yes
Magic item, innate, spell any other source, immunity also provides protection from fatigue.
Same with the other elements