Where do newbies go to rant about the game?
 

Because the Reviews thread seemed to be for more formalized occasions, so I'm going to pipe up and say this now.

Illwinter game Design, you guys are exceptional. Exceptionally awesome.

I usually won't go through the trouble of finding or buying a new copy, especially since I initially found Dominion while going through a massive local garage sale that had tons and tons of games. I consider myself to be picky - to me, the glory days of TBS were long past, and current games lean toward more of the Starcraftesque build-kill-click model. Strategy games lost the meaning of strategy and became, quite literally, "how many times can you click?"

Dominion 3, however, is different. The graphics are a little less desirable, sure, but the sheer gameplay value...oh, man. You have no idea what you've done, have you? You're literally ruining the lives of good, solid 4.0 biochemistry and chemical engineering students. Hell, you've even gotten English majors that wouldn't play games hooked. I am actually afraid to introduce people to Dominion 3 now - so far, only of us (the aspiring physicist) have managed to resist it. People have commandeered my laptop and is currently running hot-seat games.

Mm, well, to be realistic, you aren't really ruining our lives - more like enriching it, since we're still getting work done on a daily basis. This game is fun, if insanely complicated. Since the garage-copied game I got didn't come with a manual, we had a whale of a time figuring out stuff. But still, even with the limited knowledge we possess, even college students can figure out that this is just amazing.

I know you probably get comments and reviews like this all the time, but please don't be surprised if you find some orders coming from New York state in the near future. At any rate, I DEFINITELY know which game to recommend for the Campus Times next month.

Re: Where do newbies go to rant about the game?
 

Hmm. To answer the initial question, right here.

The manual is overrated. Yeah, you need it, and it's a great piece of work, but you can learn the game by studying the board posts.

Re: Where do newbies go to rant about the game?
 

Actually, Lingchih, you can learn _the way forumgoers play the game_ by studying the board posts. Tinkering with it by yourself is probably the best way of developing your own approach to the game.

Re: Where do newbies go to rant about the game?
 

I'd say post it on Amazon - maybe make a List there so that when someone searches for something like Age of Wonders (or whatever) they run across Dom 3. Spread the sales, and maybe we'll see Dom 4. :)

Re: Where do newbies go to rant about the game?
 

The 'problem' with the manual is that there have been so many updates it is completely out of date in many areas.

These boards are better for getting answers to questions anyway, I've yet to see a 'RTFM' response to any question anyway.

Re: Where do newbies go to rant about the game?
 

Caradryan, even though you're a starving student and everything, I think if you really like the game then you should go and buy a sparkling new copy with the manual. Sure, some of the raw data is scattered about in the FAQ, and Edi's DB, and Cleveland's forging spreadsheet. But the manual contains most of the data you need, all in one handy little package. And you won't understand what some of the data means without the manual.

Here's some of the important stuff that's in the manual, but not posted online, at least as far as I'm aware. This is just off the top of my head:

- DRN probability table
- Turn Resolution Sequence
- National Terrain-Fort mapping
- National PD reference
- Magic items organized by item type (unlike spells, in the game you won't even see the items you're missing because you don't have the appropriate forge paths)

There's also chapters on combat, magic, and dominion spread, and reading these will give you a much better understanding of how the game works.

Re: Where do newbies go to rant about the game?
 

I'd agree with VFB. After you've played 100+ hours you should definitely buy a copy. :)

Re: Where do newbies go to rant about the game?
 

I also agree with vfb. It's hard to know the significance of Awe and Morale checks and poison mechanics and fatigue, etc., unless you have the formulas. Not to mention even knowing what a DRN is. The manual is wrong about some things but I think it's an essential place to start.

-Max

Re: Where do newbies go to rant about the game?
 

As long as I can remember, Gandalf has been around with his special signatures. This fits the original post perfectly:


Gandalf Parker wrote:

Re: Where do newbies go to rant about the game?
 

Even after all those patches, the manual is still handy to quick lookup items or spells.

What i like most on the manual is the nation description that gives the historical/fantasy background from the developers viewpoint for each nation & era.

The manual also provides you with some basic god design/strategy hints for each nation & era. Very worthy read.

Of course the nations introduced with later patches are missing.

Re: Where do newbies go to rant about the game?
 

Actually, I think those parts are what can be most easily learned from the forums. There are guides that describe the strategies where manual was right in much more detail, and there are many strategies in the manual that just aren't that good.

Province defense and castle type lists are also very useful.The manual doesn't have the third PD unit from the few nations that get three basic units, though.

Re: Where do newbies go to rant about the game?
 

I think the manual is pretty useless. To say it's "wrong about some stuff" is understating the situation. It's wrong about /a lot/. Especially if you're looking something up because it's complex, or rare, or not obvious.

And when you have an authoritative document that's so often wrong, when it is right how are you supposed to trust it?

Re: Where do newbies go to rant about the game?
 

I'm with Horst. The manual is very good and it's great to have, expecially for a new player to learn the *basic* strategies and get some first ideas about how the whole thing works.

Re: Where do newbies go to rant about the game?
 

Here's a link to the unofficial Manual Errata thread:

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=39469

Re: Where do newbies go to rant about the game?
 

I like the manual. Particularly when working out what spells you can cast, it's invaluable. I don't use it any more because, scarily, I've essentially memorised it all.

Re: Where do newbies go to rant about the game?
 

The manual isnt too bad for vanilla players (people playing the game without mods). It does contain important starting information in "newbie" wording, a tutorial, basic information on the most common items in the game.

Its definetly not an experts manual written by experts for experts. But then again I would consider that to be a good thing.

Thanks for the review but its kindof "preaching to the choir" here. My recommendation would be to do a google for Dominions 3. Any site that is talking about it usually allows comments or reviews for newbies to rant about the game. That will benefit the devs much more. :)

Re: Where do newbies go to rant about the game?
 

I find the manual extremely helpful. I do not think it is nearly as inaccurate as the forums suggest.

Even though the nations and the spells are a little behind, 80%+ are still as written and all the items are as written (I 90% sure). The booster chart is the most helpful for me, I am always checking it when I make my pretender.

As for the equations, I found them most enlightening and i am glad I read them (even if they aren't 100% correct, they are all pretty close).