WildPansies -started
 

hey folks,

this is WildPansies, a new no indies no diplo (NIND) game. it will be set in LA with CBM and difficult research. we will be playing on the infinite sands map. this is an eight player game.

everyone is invited, but be forewarned, this game is likely not suitable for newbies. NIND means you're on your own, you can't have a lopsided nation that can lean on indie mages and trades to make up for design sacrifices. this map is mostly desert, and not a lot income or resources are available, you can't just build forts anywhere. similarly, all the desert means it is difficult to move large armies around (also, supplies are likely to be set lower than default, to really crank up the feeling of that desert pain). the large map and all the wasteland does provide nice gem incomes, but magic sites will be set at LA default, so that will be clipped a little.

DO NOT, i repeat, DO NOT display your nation choice here. simply sign up. I will find a manager or devise some other scheme for choosing nations shortly. this is not random assignment, we will be choosing nations. just do not show what you are choosing.

because they would be even more suited to this game, Ermor is unavailable. further, there is no water so water nations or nations requiring coast are not playable either.

lets rock.

Nation selection will proceed as follows:

an arbitrator (probably Pasha) will randomly assign a number to each player. you will then be contacted by this person who will inform you of your number; it will be between 1 and 8. Wait until all those numbers ahead of you have submitted their pretenders, and then you may submit your own.

you can see how many have already submitted at the game link at:
http://www.llamaserver.net/gameinfo....me=WildPansies

for instructions on using llamaserver see:
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=35160


this is a big map, but with very few players. this is due to the terrible income of low pop wasteland. keep that in mind.

EDIT:
resource settings altered to 150
rational: low resource nations had advantage in this large and mountain-sparse map with their flexible fort placement. this makes the high resource nations of LA more playable.

Re: WildPansies - no indies, no diplo, LA, CBM, diff research, 1/8
 

I'm in

Re: WildPansies - no indies, no diplo, LA, CBM, diff research, 1/8
 

Sign me up.

All FIFOs are bad ideas. Just randomize the picking order for nations. Not too much work with 8 players. (i.e. give each player a number)

Re: WildPansies - no indies, no diplo, LA, CBM, diff research, 1/8
 

hrmm. ok. i'll have an arbitrator randomly assign numbers and contact players with their number. once you've got your number wait for those ahead of you to submit, then submit your own.

i like that idea, it is nicer and still keeps everything anon.

Re: WildPansies - no indies, no diplo, LA, CBM, diff research, 3/8
 

a bump for græt justice, and to get some more players.

Re: WildPansies - no indies, no diplo, LA, CBM, diff research, 3/8
 

Would diplomacy using the in game message system be allowed or is this supposed to be one big free for all?

Re: WildPansies - no indies, no diplo, LA, CBM, diff research, 3/8
 

nope. this is an absolutely no diplomacy game.

Re: WildPansies - no indies, no diplo, LA, CBM, diff research, 3/8
 

I'm in.

Re: WildPansies - no indies, no diplo, LA, CBM, diff research, 4/8
 

I'm in.

Re: WildPansies - no indies, no diplo, LA, CBM, diff research, 4/8
 

I like the challenege of the format, would like to have a go. Just had a look at the map.

Re: WildPansies - no indies, no diplo, LA, CBM, diff research, 4/8
 

Seems like a quite different experience. Consider me in.

Re: WildPansies - no indies, no diplo, LA, CBM, diff research, 7/8
 

hey folks. there is an updated version of CBM on the OP, you will need it for this game.

it fixes the blindlord (giving them H1 instead of A8)
it adds +1H to each Grave Consort, Tomb Priest, Tomb King

the holy boost for C'tis' Tomb Summons is something I've recently asked for in CBM, and think needs to be included. the main reason for this being that C'tis has national spells they can't even cast because they have no priests who are high enough level! further, the manual lists these priests as one higher holy than any of them actually are. additionally, C'tis has never won an MP game, so I don't think this is in any danger of making them imbalanced, rather I think it is just filling in what was supposed to be a key element of their strategy, and maybe giving them a much needed competitive boost.

it would be kind if someone played as C'tis to give this little boost a whirl, and see how they work out. :D

Re: WildPansies - no indies, no diplo, LA, CBM, diff research, 7/8
 

I guess I make eight. Sounds interesting, and I'm light on games at the moment.

Though if the vets vs. noobs game actually happens, I'll be at four games with this one, which is over my limit of 3. I guess I'll just have to choose which one I play.

Re: WildPansies - no indies, no diplo, LA, CBM, diff research, 7/8
 

This one will be less time consuming due to the lack of diplomacy :) especially in comparison to the newbie/vet game

Re: WildPansies - prepare your pretenders, starting soon
 

So I assume we are just awaiting our number assignments, so we can pick nations?

(in other words no point in making firm plans regarding a nation/pretender until we know we get our choice?)

Re: WildPansies - prepare your pretenders, starting soon
 

I think so - its hard not to plan properly already, but if you get number 8 not much point doing anything yet! That said, if we all start from scratch when it's our turn we could be weeks getting this moving.

Off-topic

I just had a fun idea for a variant on this(to be tried another time perhaps). Naturally whoever gets picked first in this method has a big advantage over someone picking last. That could be countered by each subsequent player making a selection of a game variable.

For instance, for 8 players, leave 8 variables open. Number of players, allowable nations, mods, map pre-set. Each player picks the following (within predefined ranges to avoid it being ridiculous)

1st – sites (30-70%)
2nd - research difficulty (easy to difficult)
3rd – income (50% to 200%)
4th – resources (50% to 200%)
5th – indies (3 to 7)
6th – supplies (50% to 200%)
7th – diplomacy (yes, no, in-game messaging only)
8th - graphs (ON/OFF)

So the 1st gets his pick of nation, and can choose sites within a range of 30-70%. He doesn't have much else to go on though

The more information a player has about the game, the less choice he has about nation. The 8th player doesn’t have many nations that fit well the previous choices, but can at least tailor his pretender perfectly. Someone going 4th has a decent balance, but may get hammered by very strong indies or insufficient supplies if he hadn’t planned for them. An overall “balanced” random game.

Re: WildPansies - prepare your pretenders, starting soon
 

Don't know if this has been mentioned, but in a RAND type game like this, you should probably turn off renaming commanders. Their names can be used to send messages to other players.

Re: WildPansies - prepare your pretenders, starting soon
 

HOLY CRAP YOUR RIGHT!

what kind of criminal mind would conceive somthing like that. OK. I'll fix the settings.

Pasha should be contacting people tomorrow with their number.

I know its a little hard to think too much about pretenders when you arn't even sure if what you are planning to go with will be available to you. so if some people take a little time I think that's ok. however, given that there's eight players and 17 available nations, i think most people will get something they want (remember, no Ermor, and R'lyeh, Mari, and Atlantis all require water or coastal starts, none of which there is on this map). so with 17 nations, assuming people pick randomly, even the last person to submit has about a 50% chance of getting their choice.

Re: WildPansies - prepare your pretenders, starting soon
 

...

Let's hope no-one figures out you can PM people via this forum, or use IRC.
I am clearly missing something so devious, I haven't come up with it. Otherwise your observation would just be silly.

If I can't rename my w4n3b2 mage to w4n3b2, I tend to get very upset having to go through 24 icons to find the bastard. But maybe that's just me. For the record, I hate kittens also.

Re: WildPansies - prepare your pretenders, starting soon
 

Mostly, the honor system works for this type of game. But yes, the commander renaming can be used as a sort of invisible communication, eg: commander name "Don't attack me".

Re: WildPansies - prepare your pretenders, starting soon
 

And also everyone would know whoever names their mages w4n3b2 is qio. Not everyone renames their mages, or renames them the same way. This is a secret-identity game, right? Qio, just pick a nation that has few random paths on mages.

... I'll go back to lurking now ...

Re: WildPansies - prepare your pretenders, starting soon
 

yes, but the elaborate pretender submission scheme is all meant to keep nations anon, so no one knows who anyone is. and if you try mailing random people, then you risk someone giving you up, or worse yet lying about what nation they are and getting you to start wars with the wrong person.

and actually, i am thinking the renaming isn't that big a deal. they could just as soon send you a real message in game, and have the same effect. can't really say that your commander named "letsganguponMictlan" is just an innocent oddity. I'm not sure what someone might gain by communicating that way. In fact, it only opens there clandestine message to more eyes.

so, i'll leave renamingn on

Re: WildPansies - prepare your pretenders, starting soon
 

It might just be me, but if someone does that, I take it as a sign of weakness and will do the exact opposite. :p

That and report it of course.

Re: WildPansies - prepare your pretenders, starting soon
 

I think it's a mistake to leave renaming on Omni. It can be abused.

The renaming can be very subtle.

Re: WildPansies - prepare your pretenders, starting soon
 

like subliminal renaming?

Re: WildPansies - prepare your pretenders, starting soon
 

Assuming everyone is just playing the game, and not trying to abuse any rules - I fail to see how renaming is problematic. Yeah, my example was just an example. I don't actually name my commanders according to their paths.

If I was participating in this or any other game with 2 of my friends. How could you ever figure out we were colluding anyways? We'd take screen shots and message via IRC or so forth.

I get the point of this being 8 random people that don't supposedly know each other, but if you are gonna assume folks have integrity then let's pretend we're all following the rules. That way I get to rename my commanders.

It takes 2 to tango or cheat.

Re: WildPansies - prepare your pretenders, starting soon
 

I agree we should leave renaming on.. if two people really wants to cheat they can, I choose to believe that no-one will

Re: WildPansies - prepare your pretenders, starting soon
 

Dudes. I have played Rand games. I know what renaming can do. Please leave it off.

Allright, time to get to the tough sell. Renaming is of, or I am out

Re: WildPansies - prepare your pretenders, starting soon
 

huh?

for renaming to work, the intended target has to _receive_ the message.

receiving a message is receiving a message, no matter how they receive it. in this context, they could just as easily sent an actual in game message to the exact same effect.

because there is no way to turn off messaging and we are not having a third party check turns, renaming is no different from sending an in game message. renaming as a means of communication is equal to sending an in game message. turning it off would have no effect because it would subtract nothing from the possible ways for a person to cheat.

EDIT:
eh... keeping it less verbose. you get the point.

if you wanna still quit then go on ahead though. just let us know so that we can all call you a pansy.

Re: WildPansies - prepare your pretenders, starting soon
 

Dude. If someone wants to circumvent or abuse the intended rules as set currently, it will not be by renaming their commander "bomb the village on the left". If 2 people choose to collude, there is NOTHING you can do about it and no sure way of proving it has taken place.

You want this as a formal model or in iambic pentameter? Seriously.
If I (player A) want to cheat in a game and another person (player B) also endorses this there is nothing you can do to prevent this. And you could never prove it has taken place. Renaming is not the "real" issue.

Re: WildPansies - prepare your pretenders, starting soon
 

I have sent everyone their submission numbers.

Have fun.

Pasha

Re: WildPansies - prepare your pretenders, starting soon
 

Thanks Pasha.

if anyone is leaving this game we need to know now so we can find another player.

if everyone is still in then no worries and lets get rolling.

Re: WildPansies - prepare your pretenders, starting soon
 

ok so we wait to see when a pretender has been submitted to the server and when our number comes up we submit, correct?

Re: WildPansies - prepare your pretenders, starting soon
 

incabulos:

correct. hopefully it won't take too long since there's only eight players. but yes unfortunately we are kind of locked into a submission order that will slow it down a bit.

it was suggested that this method would be a little more fair of way of handling anon nations while still allowing players to choose there own. that maybe right, but I think if I do another game like this I'll just set a 'submission start data' and let it be first come first serve. the extra step just isn't that worth it :(

Re: WildPansies - prepare your pretenders, starting soon
 

Considering the length of games I don't think it hurts too much and makes things a little fairer.

Re: WildPansies - prepare your pretenders, starting soon
 

another thing is that people must download the CBM version on the OP. it is a slightly different version that fixes the blindlord mistake (with them having A8) and gives C'tis tomb summons +1H (so that the Tomb Kings now have H4, and can cast their nationals).

Also be sure to activate it. It should be called 'CBM 1.41c' or some such. if you do not have it active when you make your pretender, llamaserver will barf and we'll have to resubmit, which will be a big pain. if you've already submitted but didn't have this mod active, then you can just resubmit up until the point when all eight get in.

Re: WildPansies - prepare your pretenders, starting soon
 

I'll stay. And yes, I was being a pansy :)

Re: WildPansies - prepare your pretenders, starting soon
 

1 pretender in, we're moving! :) I think it's going to be a long haul, especially the last few players who will likely be picking nations they hadn't initially considered

Just a thought.. maybe we can speed this up, if Pasha is willing to put a little extra work in, by each player sending a list of preferences 1-8?

Pasha can then very quickly assign each player their nation, reply via message and let everyone get to work on their pretenders?

Re: WildPansies - prepare your pretenders, starting soon
 

I had considered something like that initially, but don't want to burden the third party manager with any additional tasks; they're nice enough to do whatever they do in the first place.

Re: WildPansies - prepare your pretenders, starting soon
 

Seems there are 3 pretenders submitted. It should not take more than 24h for each pretender submission. Just a matter of the next person being awake and online. Best case scenario is probably a reply time of 12h.

Let's hustle folks. Mush.

Re: WildPansies - prepare your pretenders, starting soon
 

Hmm. 4 in now. We might be able to start this thing by the weekend.

Re: WildPansies - prepare your pretenders, starting soon
 

3 more to go.

Re: WildPansies - prepare your pretenders, starting soon
 

al.. most.. there

just.. one.. more

and remember folks, please make sure you did design your pretender with the modified version of CBM found on the OP.

Re: WildPansies - prepare your pretenders, starting soon
 

I think you are up Omni. Time to make the game happen.

Re: WildPansies - prepare your pretenders, starting soon
 

uhh.... the game seems to have magically disappeared...

i've emailed llama.

Re: WildPansies - prepare your pretenders, starting soon
 

I'm away from home at the moment, but I'll take a look and revive it either tonight or tomorrow.

Re: WildPansies - prepare your pretenders, starting soon
 

I saw the same thing happen in another game we tried to create using one of the newer versions of the CBM.
There was some internal nagot gick fel error which caused it, but llama could fix it that time, I have faith he will again :up:

Re: WildPansies - prepare your pretenders, starting soon
 

thank you llama

you're a gentleman and a scholar

or a hustler and a pimp

i can't remember

Re: WildPansies - prepare your pretenders, starting soon
 

The game's back up.

Re: WildPansies - prepare your pretenders, starting soon
 

Oh god, this is embarrasing.

When you said no independents, I thought that there won't be any independents. I just assaulted with everything on turn 1 and they all got slaughtered, including my F3E4W3A3D3N4B3 Ghost King.

No chance of recovering from that one, so I made myself AI (I'm not the kind of player to get kicks out of from trying to fight a uphill battle).
Next time, I'll try to be less retarted.