a few wishes
 

I recently while playing noted a few things that would be great if put in the game, feel free to tell me that this isn't possible or not worth the troubles
1)No heat firing on infantry, or at least while opfiring, reason:
Sometimes a squad appears in front of a bazooka/pzfaust team with limited ammo, they waste ammo that could be used for taking out tanks.:doh:

2)Chose the tipe of round fired(even if only against armor),reason:
Say, a tank has 5 sabots and wastes them shooting HTs or light armor, or using HEATs to shoot things that can be killed by a plain AP round.(or even worse, HE rounds!)

3)(probably not possible)HE rounds with less pen 0 results, like tank guns, shooting HT's with HE sometimes produces good results , i mean, reducing the probability of Pen 0 results for HE a bit.

is something in this list possible in mbt or ww2?

Re: a few wishes
 

These have come up before
1) What versions are you running infantry normaly reserve last few rounds of ATW for use against armour so they don't fire them at infantry.
2) This has been discussed before & is not realistic. The crews do a pretty good job of switching ammo normally but do get it wrong on occasion like anyone would.
If you want to choose a round select it when it loads not when it fires so now if you have HE in the gun thats what you have to fire.
3) Why exactly a HE round is quite capable of taking out the HT or its driver which in game terms is a kill. The AP wrecks the vehicle with luck the HE even if it does not penetrate sends a blast wave straight through the drivers vision slot then it crashes if not wrecked already.

Re: a few wishes
 

If there's a wishlist, I'd like to add:

Finnish long campaign! :)

Spanish civil war long campaign

Include allied units in your core

Re: a few wishes
 

Hi All
As Regards HEAT rounds, I think the algorithm that selects between shell type is faulty.
In say version 6 of the game, take as an example senario 53, Whitmans tiger is presented with a side shot at a Firefly at 250m. Sensibly he fires an AP round.
The algorithm received some tweaking and now in win3.5
Whitman fires a HEAT round. The problem with this is that with the HEAT pen of 10 compared to the AP rounds 15 he has a much better chance of just annoying the firefly and getting killed. Dumpkoff!

With the new algorithm Whitman is being too smart by half, using a HEAT round to save AP for a rainy day because its "enough" for a side shot. Use AP nincompoop! make sure of it.

I dont know how the shell choosing algorith works but as regards HEAT shouldnt it contain something like?

If the AP penetration is better than the HEAT penetration at the target range fire the AP otherwise fire the HEAT.

ie save the HEAT for the ranges where it has a better penetration than the AP. With the current setup they are wasted.

Best Regards Chuck.

Re: a few wishes
 

hello!

For me my top two wishes would be a bigger core ie over 200 units and the ability to have captured equipment in your core.

But saying that the game is great fun, for me the inclusion of pbem campaigns was ground breaking and has made it far more enjoyable playing my old foe Panzer bob.:)

Re: a few wishes
 

Yes. I would really love to have a bigger core.
I always fight the big battles, with a maximum core, big maps and big clashes.

But to all of you, that tweaks and fix, and make this a bigger game.
Keep it up, God know we appreciate it :bow:.

Re: a few wishes
 

Chaps there is a simple reason why you cant have a bigger core
Max core size is 200 now add a few support units & you are defending so the AI recieves a bigger force.
In reality if you have equiped your core with good gear even as it stands the AI would be hard pushed to spend all its points before it hits the unit limit.
Why because it tries its best to buy a realistic force.
Conclussion with a 200 core on defend missions if buy some support keep it to a minimum & drive one of your tank companies off the map to restore balance, or just stick it in a corner.

As to captured equipment in the core the reason its only availble to support I would think is keeping it running. Yes it might last a battle or 2 but you are not trained in its use or repair & are having to scavange parts & ammo from battles to keep it running.
If it breaks down while moving to a new battle location kiss it goodbye.
__________________________________
There are more atoms in a glass of water than there are glasses of water in all the worlds oceans

Re: a few wishes
 

I understand that a bigger core for campaign games against the AI would be troublesome.

But is there a small possibilty to expand the core in PBM campaign games. Especially if you play max battles and expand the map size when the campaign progresses

For me:

Multiplayer:

- the option to chose max core.
- that the mission types are not random anymore. But are determined with the result of the last battle.

And a probably impossible request.

For kill score to be seperated in inf and armoured.

Greetings

Re: a few wishes
 

That's real nice Chuck, now go back and test that scenario 10 times in a row, first shot from Whitmanns tank at the Firefly and tell us all what results you got each time because it won't be what you just claimed it was. Sometimes the game will load HEAT, sometimes AP and SOMETIMES Woll will miss altogether and Whitmanns luck will run out earlier than "historical". Even the AP, when fired, may only wound and leave the Firefly capable of returning fire and sometimes the Firefly is killed outright ( using AP OR HEAT )

What you will NOT see is the same thing happen over and over and over.

Don

Re: a few wishes
 

Hi Don
Quite right, I got a run on HEATs(7) last night that Im not getting now (3 in a row max).
But....
I still maintain that any gun that fires AP and HEAT should not fire its HEAT rounds unless the range is long enough that the HEAT rounds penetration is better than that of the AP round, not when its less as currently modeled.

Ive managed to defeat IS-1s with stugs and pz 4s (Korsun pocket) precisely because you can penetrate their flanks at long range with the HEAT round.
This strategy is now harder to pursue because now you can waste the HEAT rounds in close encounters. The number carried is limited and it takes a few to get on target, you need every HEAT round you can get when the time comes.

Also from another perspective.

You've got HEAT loaded and the firefly turns to face you, should have been AP!
Best Regards Chuck.

Re: a few wishes
 

Chuck the game crews actually do a pretty good job on ammo selection, I know because I monitored a tank comp on a hill as ammo was critical & they switched ammo dependant on range & target pretty well as penetration was border line for a lot of targets. I was actually quite impressed & yes they sometimes wasted the good stuff but put that down to the pressure of battle & getting it wrong or simply having the wrong type ready to go.
HEAT also has a much higher variation in penetration level to simulate getting a square hit or not as makes a big diffrence to the plasma torch.
No idea how much of a boost nor do I want to know but I have killed stuff with armour way over the penetration levels.
__________________________________
There are more atoms in a glass of water than there are glasses of water in all the worlds oceans

Re: a few wishes
 

Hi Imp

Its a playbalance issue.

How many units in the UK OOB carry a weapon that fires a HEAT shell with lower pen than the AP shell, none.
How many units in the US OOB carry a weapon that fires a HEAT shell with lower pen than the AP shell, one, M3 75mm GMC (114)
How many units in the German OOB carry a weapon that fires a HEAT shell with lower pen than the AP shell, countless.
I started to list them but when there were 38 units carrying weapon 50 I thought Id probably made my point, ie
So...
The recent change to the ammo selection algorithm (Firing HEAT when it should be AP) disadvantages the Germans and doesnt afect the UK/USA. Because the Germans have lots of weapons that fire a low pen HEAT round and a higher pen AP round, the allies dont.

Heres a list of all relevant German weapons and some of the units.
77 12.8cm KwK44 Maus 214
61 8.8cm KwK43 L71
62 8.8cm PaK43 L71 PaK Bunker 147; Pillbox 538
228 10.5cm FlaK 38
48 7.5cm KwK42 L70
51 7.5cm StK42 L70
59 8.8cm FlaK18/36
60 8.8cm KwK36 L56 PzKw VI Tiger 376; Tiger 849;
47 7.5cm KwK40 L48 PzKw IVh 026; PzKw IVj (+) 027; SdKfz 234/4 075; SdKfz 251/22 170; PzKw IVh 377; PzKw IVj 745;
50 7.5cm StK40 L48 I stopped here, there are 38 units with this gun (weapon 50).
52 7.5cm PaK40 L48
46 7.5cm KwK40 L43
49 7.5cm StK40 L43
54 7.5cm KwK44 L36
230 7.5cm LG40 PAW
23 4.7cm PaK 183f
21 4.7cm PaK 177i
22 4.7cm KwK 173f

So Normandy, The Brits and Americans load the correct shell, Those careless Germans! about one in every 7 shells they fire isnt the "right" shell
So clearly the Germans are having a lot more "pressure of battle & getting it wrong or simply having the wrong type ready to go" moments than the Allies. (The Brits actually dont have any)

From
http://www.achtungpanzer.com/panzerk...sd-kfz-181.htm
For the Tiger 1

"The hollow-charge Gr.39HL round....was sometimes exchanged for some of the HE load"

Suggesting HEAT wasnt popular and was seen as a substitute for HE rather than AP in the case of the tiger 1 anyway.

Best Regards Chuck.

Re: a few wishes
 

Well you obviosly have a beef I will be honest & say don't know if ammo selection algorithm was changed, could look at version release notes to see but think not.
You could just be percieving it as changed, I don't bother tracking ammo unless its critical during game just get on & play once I have looked at stats for any new gear.
From memory & not realy paid attention HEAT gets used close up or at range once AP pen falls off. Probably uses close up as better chance of a square hit so overpenetration that will make it more powerful than the AP round. Its borederline which will have the best effect so either can be chosen.
As I said you are asking a lot of your crews if you expect them to always have the right round loaded.
What you seem to want is an algorithim that never fires HEAT exept at range & even then not till the 3rd shot with a high hit chance to preserve ammo.

Re: a few wishes
 

Hi Imp
I do know that the ammo selection algorithm has changed. I keep old versions of the game, Ive played whitmans senario in v6 of the game maybe 30 times now and he hasnt fired a HEAT round yet, as I said in my origional post.
Ive never seen HEAT have overpenetration any more than AP does, in my testing on average it performs worse and so constitutes a bad choice of ammo at close range. Maybe you could present some test results to support your overpenetration suggestion?
Im not asking that the crews always have the right round loaded Im asking that the playing field is leveled. If the UK and US never make a mistake loading their round neither then should the Germans,(currently they do) or if the Germans have to make mistakes then so too should the western allies(currently they dont).
Half right, I would like an algorithm that only fires HEAT at the range where it has a better pen that AP (or if AP is out etc , Im not writing the whole algorithm here) I dont care about waiting till the third shot. ie Im asking if the algorithm could be changed back to how it was, shouldnt be too hard I assume one of the current designers made the change as so is familiar with it.

Best Regards Chuck

Re: a few wishes
 

Don't do tests Chuck just observe & overtime you sort of pick up stuff.
Not counting hitting a soft spot or warhead size AP at very short ranges seems to have possibility for overkill so Pen of 6 might give 7 or 8. Sometimes hits with slightly less Pen to but not as common.
HEAT has a much bigger range consider the listed Pen as more like an average it has more chance to deviate both up & down & does so by a greater amount.
Feel free to test but HEAT produces more unexpected kills & if anything I am watching the info box to decide what concealed weapon is firing at me or for asterisks.

Re: a few wishes
 

AFAIK it has not have to do much with the popularity but with the fact it was cheaper to manufacture than "proper" HE and still went somewhat (even though less) "bang" upon impact.

Re: a few wishes
 

Hi Imp
Yes I tested this and you are correct, For the Tiger 1 firing HEAT about 1 in 16 HEAT shells will overpenetrate by 2 or more, For AP its about 1 in 50.

Though this is true it doesnt constitute an argument that the tiger should be firing HEAT at the firefly side armour at short range where both shell types pen is better than the armour. Just the opposite in fact, as the HEAT can vary down possibly below the armour value wheras the AP wont.
Best regards chuck

Re: a few wishes
 

I feel that it would be nice to be able to start with an AO unit that matches your main unit mix, at least in the infantry area, when you want to use units like mountain troops, etc. I know you can change your AO, but the overwhelming opinion is not to change it at all.
Thanks.

Re: a few wishes
 

Talking about wish lists and like to haves:

I’ve had a couple of occasions where a tank has been shot up or immobilized and the crew has bailed out. Would it be possible to add a function where if you get the crew to the left or right edge of the map, which ever is the “friendly” edge, you can “retreat” them off the map. I’ve moved crews back as far as I can and then had enemy units pop up and gun them down.

Re: a few wishes
 

Happens already so not sure what you mean.
Move any unit onto the grey border hex & they exit next turn, cant be fired at once on it though indirect fire may still effect till they vanish

Re: a few wishes
 

:doh: I did not know that. I thought the gray border was the edge of the map and nothing else. I have never tried moving anything on to it. Thanks

Re: a few wishes
 

No problem, its why you should not put on map arty to close to the map edge, they might route off never to be seen again

Re: a few wishes
 

:confused:Can anyone tell me if there is a M25 Tank Transporter, the “Dragon Wagon” in the US, USMC or Allied nations OOB? I’ve been looking in the OOB’s and haven’t found it. If its not in there could it be added to the wishlist of things in the next version? Wikipedia shows it being in service from 1941 to 1955. Just asking.

Thanks

Re: a few wishes
 

Tank transporters are only used inbetween battles as recovery vehicles,and after the battle smoke is cleared,not essential while battle is in progress.

In a campaign in the repair/build phase it's clear you already have them,as tanks are hauled back to be fixed and ready.

Re: a few wishes
 

They are available in WinSPMBT just figured they would be in WW2.

Re: a few wishes
 

I suppose you oould argue they would be usefull in combat situations where dozers or slow moving armour could be hauled forward.
Then they are on a large unarmoured target right:confused:
Not speaking for the developer's,but they are something that are not a high priority change to all OOB's imo,which are getting pretty full;)

Re: a few wishes
 

I’ve had a few situations where I’d have a tank or tanks get immobilized by infantry then the battle would move. The tank would be where I could recover them but could never find anything that was big enough to carry them. I’d like to take the immobilized tank and put it on the back side of a hill where they can “surprise” anything coming over or around. Can’t complain too much still a great game.

Re: a few wishes
 

Even if you stuck one in the OOB it would not let yo load an immobilezed vehicle anyway