Silver Lions II - Preview
 

Ok, for those interested, here is a preview of what I am considering for the Silver Lions II User Campaign. It sort of follows the story/theme of the original Silver Lions Campaign and picks up when the war starts back up one year later.

I have created the 1st scenario and put it into a User Campaign format for playing. It is expected to take some time to build this especially as I am considering the development of a Mexican Drug War II User Campaign.

If you want to download it, play through the initial scenario and comment here in this thread I would appreciate any feedback.

I also welcome any suggestions/recommendations on what "path" the story should follow. ;)

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Silver Lions II

Date: August 1986
Game/Version: WinSPMBT 4.0
Fixed Core Force Campaign

Average Turns:_TBD
Nation: United States Army
Command Size: Company/Team

Number of Scenarios:_TBD

INTRODUCTION:

In the summer of 1985 World War III finally erupted between NATO and the Warsaw Pact. After 3 months of heavy fighting and the seesawing back and forth of the front lines a cease fire was finally negotiated. For the most part, the orginal borders were restored with the exception of a couple of significant NATO penetrations into Western Czechoslovakia. During the somewhat peaceful winter of 1985/86, both sides rearmed and redeployed their forces for the expected resumption of hostilities. It was at this time the US 8th Infantry Division (Pathfinders) was deployed into defensive positions in the vicinity of Cachrov, Czechoslovakia. In August 1986, fighting was renewed when Warsaw Pact forces launched extensive offensive operations all along the front.

For this campaign, you are the commander of the US Army's D Company (Team Delta), 2nd Battalion (Silver Lions), 68th Armor Regiment, 8th Infantry Division. This unit is a standard US company sized armor heavy task force. Your unit is deployed in the area of Cachrov and the men await your orders.
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Special thanks to Marek Tucan for his maps. I will be using these excellent maps for the area where the campaign takes place. :)

Re: Silver Lions II - Preview
 

Dl'd, installed, deployed for battle 2. I'll give it a go this weekend.

Re: Silver Lions II - Preview
 

Turn 8. So far a turkey shoot. Everything that comes on the map gets destroyed. A few of mine destroyed by arty fire.

I have FOs but no arty???

Re: Silver Lions II - Preview
 

This is just the 1st scenario of many so much of the losses you sustain will likely not be able to be replaced for the campaign.

The FO's are part of the Company/Team TO&E for the campaign (you only have the 1st scenario).

I am also going to create a document that sets some limitations/criteria for their use during the battles.

For example you have an ALO and an FSO. The ALO (Air Liason Officer) who technically cannot call for or adjust Artillery Fire as he is attached from the Air Force and has no access to Artillery frequencies. The FSO (Fire Support Officer) cannot call in or adjust Aircraft as he is Artillery Officer assigned from the Brigade's Artillery Battalion and has no access to Air Force frequencies.

Re: Silver Lions II - Preview
 

Lost 0 men, killed everything I could spot. However if the enemy forces were stronger and more coordinated, they would pose a serious threat.

EDIT: Deployment: CO in the middle, on the ridge just above village, Coy. TWMP tank as his wingman. First platoon deployed above, again on the ridgeline, except on tank kept in reserve.
Second tank platoon deployed on the eastern (lower) edge of Cachrov, facing east. This time three tanks forming a base of fire and one in forward position (performed excellently, though at first it showed trouble hitting targets at 500 meters).
Inf plt deployed in the village proper. Managed to avoid artillery for most part, hence no casaulties. Other than that, I dunno if the enemy was even able to fire a shot at me.

Looking forward to the camp (I know, I know, maps needed ;))

Re: Silver Lions II - Preview
 

What I am also looking at doing is adding in some alternate path choices to add in a little variety, at least in the early stages of the campaign. I have plotted out about 7 scenarios in detail so far, just need to Q&A the text, then build and test them.

Re: Silver Lions II - Preview
 

Since we are a pretty much an "international" group what interest would there be in seeing a British Core force for this theme? Would it be better to just offer an "Open Core Force" option to the campaign so users can pick their own force to play?

Re: Silver Lions II - Preview
 

I have uploaded a "Preview" version (TO THIS POST) that includes 2 full scenarios. You select between 2 possible "options" and fight that battle. Depending on your choice, you either get hit by the Regimental Recon/Forward Security Element/Advance Guard OR the Regimental Main Body of the leading Motorized Rifle Regiment of the 19th CVA Motorized Rifle Division.

I can't post this without another thanks to Marek Tucan for his maps. :up:

Re: Silver Lions II - Preview
 

Just a quick note - the ARV will get some protection, right? ;)

Re: Silver Lions II - Preview
 

Yeah, a truck and an M113 (both with 50cal's) and a section of mechanics with M16's. :cool:

A bone to chew on!
 

For those who are looking forward to this new campaign I am including the briefing for SLII-SCEN-004 (Campaign Scenario 5);

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Withdrawal

United States vs Warsaw Pact

Location: Chalsoviche, Czechoslovakia
Date: August 4, 1986
Turns: 35
Scenario Size: Medium

DATE/TIME
041330ZAUG86

TERRAIN AND WEATHER
Terrain is very open with rolling hills. Weather is clear and warm. It is midday and visibility is about 3000 meters.

___OPERATIONS ORDER

1.__SITUATION:
The Warsaw Pact offensive in Czechoslovakia has severely battered the NATO forces defending the front. In many places the front has collapsed and Pact forces are driving deep into NATO rear areas. 2nd Battalion has not fared much better and you have been ordered to withdraw your company to better defensive positions. A small blocking force has been dispatched to the area near Chalsoviche. You are to withdraw to the South, through this blocking force and take up new defensive positions so that you can cover the rest of the Battalion's withdrawal towards the West German border. You need to move quickly as your company is being pursued by the better part of a Czech Motorized Rifle Regiment. At this time, all fixed wing aircraft are involved in achieving air superiority and will not be in a position to provide ground support. 2nd Brigade Headquarters has allocated some artillery assets to cover your withdrawal.

__a. Enemy Forces:
S2 estimates that you will be facing elements of the Main Body (MB) of at least 1 MRR of the Czechoslovakian 19th CVA Motorized Rifle Division. These forces can be expected to chase your forces as they withdraw to the South in the hopes of cutting off your retreat. Expected units will include T-72's, OT-64 mounted infantry as well as light recon, anti-aircraft vehicles and engineers. As always, you can expect significant amounts of enemy artillery to be used in your sector.

__b. Friendly Forces:
Team Delta, 2nd Bn, 68th AR Rgt, 8th ID

__c. Attachments/Detachments:
3rd Plt, B Company, 2nd Bn, 68th AR Rgt, 8th ID
A & B Battery, 4th Bn, 29th FA Rgt, 8th ID
German Reconnaissance Platoon

2.__MISSION:
Withdraw through the screening line and deploy your forces into defensive positions to the South of and in the village of Chalsoviche. Destroy all enemy forces attempting to penetrate through your sector.

3.__EXECUTION:
Team Delta will move at maximum speed to the South of Chalsoviche while the blocking force provides covering fire. No Air support is available although there should be Artillery support from the Brigade's 4th Bn, 29th Field Artillery Regiment.

4.__SERVICE SUPPORT:
Refuel and rearming will be conducted once the mission is declared complete.**

5.__COMMAND AND SIGNAL:
Captain Jeffries is overall CIC of the operation. Radio silence should be observed at all times.**

ADDITIONAL NOTES:
There is the better part of a Czechoslovakian MRR about 10-15 minutes behind your forces.You need to your forces to the South very fast BUT be on the lookout for enemy scouts and DRT teams in ambush positions attempting to slow you down. Please note, if you move too slow you may find the enemy occupying your new defensive positions as you begin to arrive.
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For those who may be military terminology challenged I am hoping to include a PDF formatted Campaign Handbook that will include some map screenshots, OOB charts, a glossary and some other goodies.

Any comments or questions are welcome.

Also feel free to let me know if you find any spelling or grammar errors. ;)

Re: Silver Lions II - Preview
 

Sounds good.Bravo!:D. Make that a Double Bravo:bow:

Re: A bone to chew on!
 

This is the only one I found, but it could have only been in this thread. Sounds like a lot of fun!

Re: Silver Lions II - Preview
 

Has anyone played this preview in Post #8? Was it too easy or too hard? Do you think you saved enough of your forces to fight 3-4 more battles like this without any repair points? ;)

Re: Silver Lions II - Preview
 

I did, was pretty tough. Managed to keep most of my forces alive and kickin' but at the cost of holding to victory flags.

Re: Silver Lions II - Preview
 

No, I was waiting for the next version. I can if needed.

Re: Silver Lions II - Preview
 

No need, unless you have the free time. I am kind of early playtesting as I go and was concerned it may be too easy. For the 1st 4-5 scenarios the player will get 0 repair points. for some newer players this may be too much of an obstacle and turn them off as they get into the 3rd/4th scenarios. In my playtesting I do OK . . but then, I know where and when everything will show up. ;)

Re: Silver Lions II - Preview
 

Must admit did not want to play test as looking forward to the completed project though realise somebody has to, a possibility release 2 versions one easy(er) with relaxed repair points or inc in docs suggestions on what to change to for an easy ride as its simple enough. Keeping it tough is a good thing in my view & relaxed repair points will allow newer players to keep more of there force intact hence gaining exp by being able to repair damaged squads etc.

Re: Silver Lions II - Preview
 

Hi
thanks for the preview :) I choose option 2 and played the scenario. The game was funny but also a turkey shoot, it ended on turn 20 with most enemies fried and all hexes in my possession, I lost only 5 infantrymen.

Unfortunately there's a typical problem of the AI that doesn't know how to use mech/motorized infantry, it moves the APCs up to the frontline and never dismount unless fired upon and near the enemy. Most times it is too late for the passengers.

I always felt there was a problem in all scenarios when the AI uses APCs infantry. It would be more challenging if the designer could set when and where the AI dismount and leave the APCs behind, otherwise they're doomed the be target practice for the human player.

If you want to increase the difficult I suggest more arty for the AI or a couple of air missions or a couple of foot infantry companies (in the role of dismounted mot.infantry, assuming they've left the APC off map). Unless it was only a foretaste of the battles ahead :D

regards
R

Re: Silver Lions II - Preview
 

After reading the next update list, you may want to hold off on any further work until it is released.

Re: Silver Lions II - Preview
 

Right now I have limited the finished scenarios to US vs Czech since I know they are doing some serious editing to the Soviet OOB. For that reason I am concentrating on the scenario text files.

Re: Silver Lions II - Preview
 

Besides there are still two maps to be built ;)

Re: Silver Lions II - Preview
 

Picked option one. On map, 48,1 and 49,1 are water ford hexes.

Maybe I'm tired, or stupid, but the briefing didn't give me much clue that the map was going to be sideways. I found myself wondering where to deploy and where the enemy is coming from.

Side note. I'm not ex military or very versed in SP icons. Using 1/2/3/abc for the description may be accurate but I have no clue what tank I have or troops either. I can right click and it states it's a tank. No sheet. I have to click info to see an M60. Tedious to me but others may find it immersive.

Re: Silver Lions II - Preview
 

I was tired and stupid. My apology. The briefing clearly states where and where.

Re: Silver Lions II - Preview
 

Thats why I need you non-military types to give it a looksee. What looks one way to me might look completely different to another. I ma planning on a "handbook" to go along with the campaign that will include more detailed briefings, OOB's, mapsheets with overlays and more, hopefully to include a glossary. ;)

Re: Silver Lions II - Preview
 

Must admit to us guys who have not been in the military slows things down. Not so bad in a campaign as you get used to it but puts me off a scenerio straight away. The other problem is its alright if all formations have the same letter for the specialist squad otherwise remembering who they are is a pain. Normaly use game notification for that which makes it easy as you remember for instance most squads section 3 is your AT guy long range specialist as in support or whatever.
It may well add flavour though to military guys but to me finding that infantry support vehicle is a lot easier if it says thats what it is esp if icon is very similar like an APC with RCL instead of just MGs

Re: Silver Lions II - Preview
 

I, OTOH, enloy the real life descriptions :) maybe comes from all my OOB tinkering :)

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Played 12 turns option 1. My tanks have had an easy time with the enemy APCs and T72s. What I don't like is being pounded turn after turn by enemy arty. Seem you make up for the AI with dice roll destruction. I lost an M113 that way. At least give me some counter battery fire.

I would like to see the setup zone further east of the VLs. Give me a chance for a fighting withdrawal. Instead I sit and wait and get pounded by arty.

Re: Silver Lions II - Preview
 

The enemy arty is set to 18 tubes of 122mm which is the standard compliment for an MRR. They should actually have some 152mm as well if they are the center of the Division's attack. Also, the OT-64's are really outclassed by the US tanks but once the changes to the 4.5 engine go into effect it should allow some ATGM vehicles the ability to move a few hexes and still fire some ATGM's. With that version the battles should be a different story, at least when the soviets become involved in the campaign (Scenario 7+) and they have BMP's and T64b's.

If you only lost a single PC you shouldn't need to withdraw. :D How far forward, the the slope forward of Cachrov?

Re: Silver Lions II - Preview
 

Zoomed out, I see the approaches, the ridges, the woods to my back. Most of the VLs are in Cachrov. Brodne is farther back. I placed my A, B, mechanics and support AFVs in Brodne. Main force in Cachrov behind the line. Start battle. Advance some of main force in Cachrov. Start picking off oncoming tanks and AFVs. Soon Brodne is overwelmed by more forces than I expected. Meanwhile Cachrov is getting hammered by arty. Suppressed units won't recover or move.

So, my previous comments are based on this. Bad tactics on my part? If the setup line is farther forward, I could spead out a little in Cachrov. Might not get caught as bad by arty or be able to keep moving away from the blast zone. Or should I let the enemy have Cachrov and retreat to Brodne?

Re: Silver Lions II - Preview
 

You should try to hold both (keep a defensive line between the two with the L and R flanks anchored on the towns). Pact arty tactic is designed to prep any objectives or suspected enemy defensive positions. With 18 tubes of 122mm, besides the pre-targeted locations, anything that gets seen is going to stat to draw fire. This forces the US to keep on the move in a mobile defense to avoid the artillery BUT mobile defense is the Achilles heal of the M60/M113 task forces. In the earlier scenarios you are fighting the Czech which use the OT-64 and they are not a real threat (same as the BTR MRR in the Soviet Divisions) since they only have 12.7mm HMG's or so.

Once you get into the middle and later scenarios you will mostly be on the offense and will start to see the weakness of the M60's as being slow and weekly armored. Only the ability fire on the move and TTS (in limited visibility situations) gives them a chance, except by then you'll be facing Soviet BMP's with ATGM's.

Re: Silver Lions II - Preview
 

In my game, I managed to dodge the arty pretty much, but then it meant I retreated from Cachrov and picked off tanks as they came. Then I didn't retake the VPs in time.

Re: Silver Lions II - Preview
 

After re-reading through this thread, mainly yours and junk2drive's comments, I am contemplating having 2 sets of briefings available with the campaign when it is released so that players can choose between the 2 formats, picking the one they are most comfortable with. This means much re-writing but it may be better in the long run.

Re: Silver Lions II - Preview
 

I was just saying actual in play iits not a big problem after all if it bothered me enough I own pen & paper & could write down what a unit is for the odd diffrent ones. in a campaign taking a few minutes to familarise yourself with the units is not a problem as you are using them for a while. 1 battle to lazy

Re: Silver Lions II - Preview
 

Well, thats true BUT I am using the same numbering sequence for all units on the players side so you will have to learn units with each scenario of the campaign. ;)

Re: Silver Lions II - Preview
 

Fair point I just did not want you to get bogged down it would be nice your call if you have the time.

Re: Silver Lions II - Preview
 

Played option 1 with 4.5.

It works just fine. :cool:

I pretty much clobbered the enemy, destroying all enemy AFVs and most of the on map artillery but lost two APCs to artillery fire and three tanks to T72 fire..!!!
All three fell victim to the same T72.:hurt:

It must have been the Michael Wittmann of the AI commanding that T-72 lol. It advanced then stopped for two turns and zap, zap, zap, three M60 burning..., it then advanced into the centre town and shrugged off four sabot rounds at 100 meters before being taken out..., respect!

Re: Silver Lions II - Preview
 

It's possible the experience level tweaked upwards for that unit. It's always "fun" to toss in a ringer now and then

Don

Re: Silver Lions II - Preview
 

I tried staying out of town and picking off the AI as it went in. Worked well until turn 15 when the onslaught started. Then the AFV with the ATGM and so on.

Re: Silver Lions II - Preview
 

There has been a little delay in the design progress on this campiagn. I have gone back through all the current scenarios one at a time and done some tweaking to make it a little more challenging for the US player. Even so, the early scenarios should be "easy" especially for any decent players. Being NATO on the defensive with TI technology gives you a decided advantage. Once the campaign swing back to NATO being on the offense it will get a lot more difficult as M60's are not the best as offensive weapons.

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Now theres an understatment especially the early versions with no giro accurate fixed gun emplacements for the period but thats about it.

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How is the campaign going? the 1st scenario was too easy, lost 3 man a truck and a tank trnsport to 122 artillery, a suggestion, make the mechanics engineer type, you might need more than just mineclear/engineer tanks sometimes(mostly because of size, its a lot easyer to clear obstacles without bullets flying past your head)

Re: Silver Lions II - Preview
 

The easy part (maps) is ready ;)

Re: Silver Lions II - Preview
 

I am adjusting the earlier scenarios some to make it harder but I don't want to scare off any newer players. During the campaign you will little if any repair points for replacements. The real "heat starts about battle #6 when you are defending against the better part of 2 MRB's )with one of them being Soviet) and Warsaw Pact Air assets start to make its appearance. Its a monster scenario and is taking a bit longer than I anticipated. I may take a break from it and jump into some of the later scenario's since campaign scenario do not really need to be designed in any sequence as long as they are packed together and linked properly in the campaign itself.

Historically our unit didn't have any mineplows although the XO's tank did have a dozer blade. This was more for helping dig quick, 2 step fighting positions than anything else but in a pinch it could help with mineclearing.

Re: Silver Lions II - Preview
 

I see making quality maps as the hard part of scenario design.

Any chance of you making some Afghanistan/Pakistan maps?

1980-1989 Russia vs Mujahdeen
2002-Present NATO vs Mujahdeen

Nothing like guerila fighting in the fresh mountain air...

Re: Silver Lions II - Preview
 

IIRC I saw somewhere 1:50k military maps of the sandbox, so yeah, maybe at some point in the future ;)

Re: Silver Lions II - Preview
 

Hi DD was just wondering how it was progressing

Re: Silver Lions II - Preview
 

Going really slow right now. RL making a big dent due to work and family. Progress is continuing but extremely slow atm. :(

Re: Silver Lions II - Preview
 

Cheers for the update.