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OT: Enterprise...What did you think?
Ok, this is coming from a confirmed Star Trek nut. I even read a bunch of the books. So I will try to be as objective as possible. If you haven't seen it yet, and plan to, stop reading now. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif
On balance Enterprise is very good. Trek shows are notorious for the weak characters early on. They usually take a couple seasons to hit their stride. This one shows more promise than TNG and Voyager IMHO. Not quite as good as DS9, but close. Things I liked: 1. Effects. Very good. The Enterprise looks very cool. The space scenes and combat on Rigel were very well done. I hope this wasn't just a matter of all the stops being pulled out for the pilot episode. Keep it up. 2. The Vulcans. Finally! We get to see the less appealing side of them. Up till now they have been much too prissy. This has the potential to make them a much more believable race. I always thought that there was no way such a pacifistic race could survive in a galaxy with Klingons, Romulans, Cardasians, and the like. Nice to see them in a little more coniving and manipulative light. Things I hated: 1. The theme song. What is up with THAT?!?! Please tell me that was only a one time thing and they aren't going to play that every time. Is this Star Trek or a car commercial? That sounded like that hideous UPN Yoyager/Seven Days promo thet've been playing the Last couple years. That has GOT to go! 2. The decontamination scene. "Star Trek with a side dish of soft porn." All I can say is from looking at the Vulcan science officer, that gel must have been really cold. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/ima...ons/icon12.gif 3. And can anybody please name for me the #1 most overused plot device in Star Trek? Anyone, anyone, Buehler? If you said Time Travel, go to the head of the class! So now who's the new bad guy? Someone from the future! Please tell me we've seen the Last of him. Somehow I think not. Geoschmo |
Re: OT: Enterprise...What did you think?
Saw all of it.
Agree with the theme. Not sure if it really fits. I think you will see that for any show to be sucessful today, it must be a bit sappy and have a little soft porn in it. Bring on the cold gel. Great effects! My son always commented that the original series was flawed by the technology. It really looked like it came from the 60's. I will watch it in the future to see if it develops like the others. ------------------ Never Give up, Never Surrender! |
Re: OT: Enterprise...What did you think?
overall, it was good. They did explain the doctor. And the klingon's did not speak english yet. But with Regal, since the translator is a hand-held device the alien's on Regal should not have been able to understand English yet and the fact that they could just land on the planet and walk around without anyone paying any real attention to them did seem a little weak.
I too will watch it to see how it develops. |
Re: OT: Enterprise...What did you think?
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by geoschmo:
Ok, this is coming from a confirmed Star Trek nut. I even read a bunch of the books. So I will try to be as objective as possible. If you haven't seen it yet, and plan to, stop reading now. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif On balance Enterprise is very good. Trek shows are notorious for the weak characters early on. They usually take a couple seasons to hit their stride. This one shows more promise than TNG and Voyager IMHO. Not quite as good as DS9, but close. Things I liked: 1. Effects. Very good. The Enterprise looks very cool. The space scenes and combat on Rigel were very well done. I hope this wasn't just a matter of all the stops being pulled out for the pilot episode. Keep it up. 2. The Vulcans. Finally! We get to see the less appealing side of them. Up till now they have been much too prissy. This has the potential to make them a much more believable race. I always thought that there was no way such a pacifistic race could survive in a galaxy with Klingons, Romulans, Cardasians, and the like. Nice to see them in a little more coniving and manipulative light. Things I hated: 1. The theme song. What is up with THAT?!?! Please tell me that was only a one time thing and they aren't going to play that every time. Is this Star Trek or a car commercial? That sounded like that hideous UPN Yoyager/Seven Days promo thet've been playing the Last couple years. That has GOT to go! 2. The decontamination scene. "Star Trek with a side dish of soft porn." All I can say is from looking at the Vulcan science officer, that gel must have been really cold. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/ima...ons/icon12.gif 3. And can anybody please name for me the #1 most overused plot device in Star Trek? Anyone, anyone, Buehler? If you said Time Travel, go to the head of the class! So now who's the new bad guy? Someone from the future! Please tell me we've seen the Last of him. Somehow I think not. Geoschmo<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I agree with your assessment in the broad sense. In fact, I would have said exactly what you said in comparison to the other Trek series if you hadn't beaten me to it. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif Yes, it's not quite as good as the DS9 pilot, but otherwise pretty good. The "decontamination" scene was a classic example of Treknology being twisted to serve marketting ploys. If they were exposed to some sort of alien pathogen, they would need air-tight quarantine, internal treatment (like 'anti-biotics' or whatever the equivalent would be at that time) and a full external scrub down, including their HAIR. Deh! But, they needed an excuse to show off Blalock's body, so they invented the gel scene. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon9.gif Blech... this is the usual pandering to the gonad crowd. T'Pol will be in the cat suit all the time, I'm sure. Just like 'Counselor' Troi and her spray-on suit rather than a real uniform, or Seven of Ninety-nine bustline. The badguy is not 'from' the future, unless you are referring to the indistinct figure he was talking to. He's merely an "agent" for whoever is intervening from the future. He's been genetically engineered by them, and is 'paying' for his sooper-tuneup by doing their dirty work. Oh, and BTW, the most over-used Trek plot device is the TRANSPORTER. It saved the hero's bacon again in this pilot, you'll notice. I don't doubt they'll use it to 'restore' damaged/mutated characters several times just like a save in an adventure game. Another of the classic faults of Trek. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/ima...s/rolleyes.gif [This message has been edited by Baron Munchausen (edited 27 September 2001).] |
Re: OT: Enterprise...What did you think?
I love the new atitude of the whole show. It takes place 100 years before the original, there is no Federation (least I didnt see one), so they should be a little more 'primative'. TNG, DS9, Voyager, they just all seemed a little to proper in their attitudes and language.
The intro and music. I liked that also. I've gotten a little tired of the big orcastra music they've been useing. That, along with the decon, alien dancers, and sitting on the ceiling scenes all clearly say, this aint the usual Trek. Finnaly, no Prime Directive (that I saw), none of those old rules and Starfleet Academy leasons that teach every single Starfleet member the little bitty parts of subspace and warp. Everyone on the other shows seemed like they would need a genius IQ to know all the stuff they were taught in school. The new characters seem like they were taught just the stuff they would need to do their jobs. ------------------ 'Evacuate? In our moment of triumph?' Grand Moff Tarkin, just before the Death Star blew. We are Dyslexia of Borg, futility is resistant, your *** will be laminated. |
Re: OT: Enterprise...What did you think?
QUOTE:
That, along with the decon, alien dancers, and sitting on the ceiling scenes all clearly say, this aint the usual Trek. /QUOTE LoL! I haven't seen the programme (not available in UK) but from the above the intro sounds like the intro to the muppet show! Piiiiiiiiiiiigs iiiiiiiiiin Spaaaaaaaaaaaaaace!! ROFLMAO! ------------------ SE4 Code: L GdY $ Fr- C- Sd T!+ Sf-- Tcp-- A% M>M+ MpD! RV Pw Fq+ Nd- Rp+ G- /SE4 Code Go to my meagre SEIV pages to generate your own code. |
Re: OT: Enterprise...What did you think?
I loved this show. The marriage between the setting of the past and yet the current technology of the real world was brilliant and quite elegant. The ship and sets looked great, and yet it had all the sign Posts of a very immature Starfleet. There is no Federation, Prime Directive, nor many technological advances taken for granted in the other three series.
The adversarial role of the Vulcans was quite well done and very believable as well. Personally, I even like the theme song, as it puts the audience in a different mindset. The point is well taken...this is not 'Starfleet as usual.' Only time will tell if the character and story development will be satisfying as the series continues. Because the fans know the history well, the challenge will be to keep the stories fresh without compromising the integrity of the past series' and forgetting the main ideology behind the Star Trek universe. |
Re: OT: Enterprise...What did you think?
Liked:
1) Vulcans consider humans to be primitive (besides being emotional), and don't entirely trust them. The "partnership" is unequal, and humans resent the Vulcans' paternalistic attitude and policy of withholding technology and information. 2) Ditto the point about the crew members not being competent in every area. I hope they keep that up. Even the captain shouldn't be able to fix the warp engines, command the vessel, do diplomacy, fight like a ninja, and also get the babes. (Just the Last four. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/ima...ons/icon12.gif ) Disliked: Why does "adult" have to include constant foul language and gratuitous semi-nudity? How ironic that Hollywood portrays advanced Earthlings as being uniformly agnostic, yet still has them use "damn" and "hell" any time they get excited. Can't they come up with anything more clever to say when confronted with the unknown than "What the hell is that?" Not to mention that it's anachronistic. When's the Last time you heard someone born in the late 20th century use a curse word like "Zounds" or "Egad"? And when's the Last time you rubbed oil all over a coworker? |
Re: OT: Enterprise...What did you think?
Liked :
Pushing buttons to open doors. Ship. Gun fight with hardly anyone getting hit Disliked cold emotionless Vulcans vs. thoughtless, reckless humans and what was up with the plates going off line. Hope they fix the science up in that one. Or does armour go off line??????? Archers humour. Man can that guy ruin one liners. stun seems to work????????????? Personally I always liked the time arc stories. Doctor sucks. And the bones rip off guy has got to go. ------------------ Inter arma silent leges |
Re: OT: Enterprise...What did you think?
Once again a trek series falls victim to the three greatest trek failings:
1. Poor direction (the actors aren't necessarily bad but some seens should have been done in another take, poor camera placement, poor direction as a whole) 2. Poor editing (some things were underdramatized, some parts seemed to be missing, and some parts just didn't belong there) 3. Ratings grabbing. (hey we need lots of cursing, half naked females, and some really pointless special effects :P ) All in all though I would say this has the best pottential of all the series. I like the opening credits, I generall don't like when they choose a theme song instead of instrumental, but this one really fits, and adds to the gritty, low tech feel. (the opening credits I think really is an excellent way to show how far we've come and what were up against, unlike other shows, which pretty much just show off the ship) Excellent crew diversity, though some aren't entirely believable. Excellent captain, finally someone who isn't perfect http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif Like was said earlier, to much time travel!! I must say I don't like the ship. Too high tech. Like the outside, looks cool, but again too high tech. The inside: Wide corridors (don't like it, just an opinion, these are better than the standard trek) and everything else looked excellent. Didn't like the use of transporter, this is a big deal, not something to be taken lightly, especially for spirituall beings, brings up a whole can of worms. Would have been great to give its own entire episode. I'm still gonna watch though. Sorry for the long rant. |
Re: OT: Enterprise...What did you think?
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>and what was up with the plates going off line. Hope they fix the science up in that one. Or does armour go off line???????<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I take it this way:
- hull plating is ionized - particle beams hit; the particles would tend to drain away the ion charge. - When the officer says the plates are off-line, he just means the plate charge has been depleted, and the "power armor" is normal armor now. Assuming that ionizing the hull plates has any defensive value, and that the atmosphere of the gas giant dosen't sap the charge faster than the bitty weapons fire. |
Re: OT: Enterprise...What did you think?
Except for one little, itty, bitty problem this is the Trek I have been waiting YEARS for...
The good: the ship, the people who actually seem COMFORTABLE in their roles (unlike the 1st season of any startrek series), the 'rustic' look, THE vulcan!!, the doctors wierd smile http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif (man that was wide!!), the dog!!, the effects.... The BAD: 'PHASE-pistols'????? ISTR that in the first episode of the Original series they were using LASERS!!, Phasers were not invented yet! (Shatner refers to it in one of his books, the day the Enterprise actually got phasers.....think it was one of the recent ones...) Other than that small little quibble I loved the show....Sam...err...I mean Archer was great! ------------------ "We are all...the sum of our scars"....(paraphrased) Matt. R. Stover-'Blade of Tyshalle'. "Human existance is all imagination...Reality is no more than a simple agreement among its participants that this is where we shall meet, and these are the rules that we shall abide by."- Kevin McCarthy/David Silva "The Family:Special Effects".. |
Re: OT: Enterprise...What did you think?
I did not get to seeall of it, about the Last 1/3 what I saw was good and yes the people need to grow into the people they play but I still liked it I like Star Trek, Star Wars have not read any of the books tho
------------------ mottlee@gte.net "Kill em all let God sort em out" |
Re: OT: Enterprise...What did you think?
The 'Phase-pistol' thing could be explained by saying they're an eary experimental Version. They seemed to be normally issued some type of Plasma pistols and rifles. Maybe they went from plasma to phase to lasers to phasers. Some weird political/economical/scientific reason.
------------------ 'Evacuate? In our moment of triumph?' Grand Moff Tarkin, just before the Death Star blew. We are Dyslexia of Borg, futility is resistant, your *** will be laminated. |
Re: OT: Enterprise...What did you think?
Sheesh people. From the sounds of most of the Posts on here it looks as if we have 10 people right in this forum that could make a better show.
Frankly I am tired of being a critic on everything there is in this world. If you dislike parts of this show don't watch it, or even better, make your own show and prove just how good your show making skills are. I don't write this to insult, but to say that it is easy to tear down someone elses work and say you could make it better. And I write this to say that many of these little trivialities are stupid to criticize. Phaser, Phase pistol, who really cares what they call them (hell, they could call them Muskets and I wouldn’t care), they are just names. The names really have no part in the technology. Another small thing that people have mentioned that I would like to address is the musical choice. I think it sets the mood nicely. It's nice to hear some lyrics for once. If I wanted to hear an orchestra I would go listen to one in person. My point is that there are people who work there butts off to make an entertaining show and I don't think it is our place to cut it apart due to the little things like music, words, or plot line (I thought the time travel was refreshing and not overbearing). After all it is just a show, made to entertain. It was not made to tell history, or teach chemistry. Although watching a human rub down a Vulcan was very educational (joke). DISCLAIMER: This post is not directed at any one person, or group of people. It is just an opinion anyway and it’s not as if anyone forced you to read it. |
Re: OT: Enterprise...What did you think?
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Frankly I am tired of being a critic on everything there is in this world. If you dislike parts of this show don't watch it, or even better, make your own show and prove just how good your show making skills are.
I don't write this to insult, but to say that it is easy to tear down someone elses work and say you could make it better<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Hey, its just fun to pick out oddities, and then try to find reasonable explanations for them. ----------- Transporters: Anybody know where/when they originated? (ie. vulcan tech, or homegrown on earth?) |
Re: OT: Enterprise...What did you think?
The only major thing I would complain about is the transporter. They should have either introduced it later as an unpredictable, new technology, or better yet, left it out entirely. Also, the Klingons are a bit too stereotyped, but I love the way the Vulcans are given more personality (they actually get angry and raise their voices). Cast seems pretty good, especially Scott Bakula. Not a big fan of the doctor, though, seems too reminiscent of the technobabbling blowhards of other ST shows.
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Re: OT: Enterprise...What did you think?
QUOTE:
When's the Last time you heard someone born in the late 20th century use a curse word like "Zounds" or "Egad"? /QUOTE Never, but I'm going to start right now. Egads! (Unless you count The Brain of "Pinky and The Brain".) ------------------ SE4 Code: L GdY $ Fr- C- Sd T!+ Sf-- Tcp-- A% M>M+ MpD! RV Pw Fq+ Nd- Rp+ G- /SE4 Code Go to my meagre SEIV pages to generate your own code. [This message has been edited by dogscoff (edited 28 September 2001).] |
Re: OT: Enterprise...What did you think?
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>My point is that there are people who work there butts off to make an entertaining show and I don't think it is our place to cut it apart due to the little things like music, words, or plot line (I thought the time travel was refreshing and not overbearing). After all it is just a show, made to entertain. It was not made to tell history, or teach chemistry.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Bur Baal, poke and criticize is what we Star Trek fans do best. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif Those of us that have been fans for years really enjoy this kind of thing. It gives us a sense of being a part of a community. And it looked to me like every post in thread had positive as well as negative things to say about the show. Star Trek is not just another show. It's Star Trek. Truth be told I am sure that the people who "worked their butts off" making it would be happy to hear us talking about it. At least that means we are watching it. Even if we don't always agree with the way they are taking "our show" in every circumstance. One of the things about Star Trek fans that aggravated non Trek fans the most is the way we nit pick the details to death, and then reason out discrepancies between episodes and shows. For example: TOS Klingons had no cranial ridges. Then along comes Star Trek TMP in 1979, and "Klingons got ridges!". Of course it's just makeup. And the real reason for the difference is that in the 60's on a shoestring budget the producers couldn't spend a bunch of money on makeup every week. But Trek fans have had lots of fun over the years discussing the differences, and trying to explain them in a way that would fit with the "reality" of the show.( http://www.geocities.com/Area51/6559/klingon.html) Of course now that the "Enterprise" Klingons have ridges, we are going to have to modify our understanding, again. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif Geoschmo |
Re: OT: Enterprise...What did you think?
Conspiracy theory #7650127/B/3 Alpha
I've heard a few people say things like "Well, it sucks, but I know I'll watch it anyway because it's Star Trek." Maybe the arly episodes of TNG contained subliminal Messages, compelling viewers to watch every Star Trk franchise at every opportunity, no matter how bad it is. I know I do. If I'm not back on Monday, you'll know I was right and that they got me... ------------------ SE4 Code: L GdY $ Fr- C- Sd T!+ Sf-- Tcp-- A% M>M+ MpD! RV Pw Fq+ Nd- Rp+ G- /SE4 Code Go to my meagre SEIV pages to generate your own code. |
Re: OT: Enterprise...What did you think?
geoschmo si correct. Baal you will find this going on even on the offical ST BB's.
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Re: OT: Enterprise...What did you think?
geoschmo is correct.
Baal you will find this going on even on the Offical ST BB's. |
Re: OT: Enterprise...What did you think?
Baal,
In fact, most of us COULD make a better show -- if we could do it OURSELVES. But a television show is always the product of a committee, and has to be because it's such a huge project. If you have any acquaintance with the folk-wisdom called "Murphy's Law" jokes you know what that does to the quality of the finished product, of course. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif Anyway, we have every right to *****-whine-moan about the quality, or lack thereof, in our entertainment. They are trying to sell it to us. Like any other product, we need to consider its merits and deficiences so we can decide if it's worth "buying" with our time, or if we ought to do something else that would be more valuable. Finish our SE IV mods, for example. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif And anyway, if you don't like to see whining about a tv show made with so much 'hard work' then you don't have to click on the thread and read it. DISCLAIMER: This post is directed at one person. It is just an opinion anyway and it’s not as if anyone forced you to read it. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/ima...ons/tongue.gif http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/ima...ons/tongue.gif http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/ima...ons/tongue.gif [This message has been edited by Baron Munchausen (edited 28 September 2001).] |
Re: OT: Enterprise...What did you think?
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by geoschmo:
One of the things about Star Trek fans that aggravated non Trek fans the most is the way we nit pick the details to death, and then reason out discrepancies between episodes and shows. For example: TOS Klingons had no cranial ridges. Then along comes Star Trek TMP in 1979, and "Klingons got ridges!". Of course it's just makeup. And the real reason for the difference is that in the 60's on a shoestring budget the producers couldn't spend a bunch of money on makeup every week. But Trek fans have had lots of fun over the years discussing the differences, and trying to explain them in a way that would fit with the "reality" of the show.( http://www.geocities.com/Area51/6559/klingon.html) Of course now that the "Enterprise" Klingons have ridges, we are going to have to modify our understanding, again. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif Geoschmo<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I read an interesting speculation about this recently. Someone suggested that the ruler of the Klingon Empire at the time of TOS was a xenophobe who had all space-faring Klingons surgically altered in order to disguise the true nature of the Klingon species. The small problem of the contacts already established before this policy was enacted was not dealt with... but then despots don't tend to trouble themselves with logic anyway. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif So, this is not an utterly outlandish possibility. |
Re: OT: Enterprise...What did you think?
It was mentioned in the DS9 Tribbles show.
The way Worf said "Ugggggggggggggggggh I do not want to talk about it" Sumed it all up. ------------------ Inter arma silent leges |
Re: OT: Enterprise...What did you think?
I liked the new show a lot and thought it was pretty good for a pilot episode.
The best thing I have heard to explain the inconsistencies between what was cannon before and now. Was that a slight temporal shift occured because of the events in First Contact. Not to mention the borg wreckage left behind. This is even more amusing since the main villan is temporal. (And since they didn't show who it was it must be a person or species we will recognize.) The biggest thing that bugged be was that the Klingon homeworld was only 80 hours away from earth at warp 5. Damn that is close. That would make it like a few minutes away by Voyagers time. |
Re: OT: Enterprise...What did you think?
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Rich04:
The biggest thing that bugged be was that the Klingon homeworld was only 80 hours away from earth at warp 5. Damn that is close. That would make it like a few minutes away by Voyagers time.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> As a rule Star Trek has always had a hard time getting its distances and travel times straight. I tend to ignore it or assume that the Star Trek universe is more crowded than our own. [Given the speed of phasers, perhaps light moves slower there and light years are just a fraction of ours.] :-) As to the Klingon's, I still prefer the history used in Star Fleet Battles. If I remember correctly, the Klingons were part of a multi-racial slave empire that overthrew the Old Kings. Thus, you can have may flavors of Klingon that share a common culture. Separate clans, civil wars, power struggles, these are Klingon things. Genetic manipulation and pLastic surgery conspiracies are not. -- TAZ |
Re: OT: Enterprise...What did you think?
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Rich04:
The biggest thing that bugged be was that the Klingon homeworld was only 80 hours away from earth at warp 5. Damn that is close. That would make it like a few minutes away by Voyagers time.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Yeah, but since the universe is constantly expanding, they were closer together in "Enterprise's" day than in "Yoyager's". http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif (No, I don't really believe that.) |
Re: OT: Enterprise...What did you think?
Warp is not linear. warp 5 does not mean 5 times the speed of light.
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Re: OT: Enterprise...What did you think?
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Warp is not linear. warp 5 does not mean 5 times the speed of light.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>That makes it a bigger problem http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif
If it goes up faster than linear, it makes low speeds faster, but high speeds LOTS faster. Which brings up another point. What warp scale are they using? TOS scale? TNG+ scale? A third scale? |
Re: OT: Enterprise...What did you think?
It does get confusing:
at warp 1 a ship could travel from the sun to earth in about 8 seconds. At Enterpise I think they said they could go to Jupiter and back in 6 minutes but they did not state at what speed. I am trying to work out the math and will post more later. |
Re: OT: Enterprise...What did you think?
I thought it was the best of the more recent trek series. I liked the Ship , special effects, back ground sets, and the attitudes reflected in the crew, they werent all running around blessing the galaxy with their presence and how wonderful the federation was.
Two things stood out as mistakes for me- when they grappled the fighter - the guy ejected and the hatch popped off - so they wouldnt have been able to use the fighter without being able to replace the hatch. The scene where they are infected with a alien spore - I didnt mind lookin at the vulcan.. but what they did was inconsistant with what would have to happen to disinfect themselves. It was really a character building scene and I got the impression - the two characters would eventually hit it off. As to how fast they were moving ; didnt Capt Archer say to the crew it would take a week or so to get used to flying at 30,000 kilometers per second, just before they lost all power? All in all I thought it was entertaining and I liked it alot. I will be watching with interest! [This message has been edited by AJC (edited 29 September 2001).] |
Re: OT: Enterprise...What did you think?
Check out this link. It says that that warp 5 is 214 times the speed of light.
http://www.netmoon.com/startrek/warp1/warp.htm How about warp 9.9999 equals 199,516 times the speed of light. ------------------ Never Give up, Never Surrender! |
Re: OT: Enterprise...What did you think?
What did I think of Enterprise? Well in a word, awsome. I was really surprised at the attention to detail, and the overall effect that they were able to pull off.
I truly look forward to seening more of this show. ------------------ New Age Ship Yards "We've made too many compromises already, too many retreats! They invade our space and we fall back -- they assimilate entire worlds and we fall back! Not again! The line must be drawn here -- this far, no further! And I will make them pay for what they've done!" -- Captain Picard STNG Borg Breen Species 8472 Cardassian Dominion STNG Ferengi Klingon Romulan Trek Movie era TOS Illuminati Starwolf |
Re: OT: Enterprise...What did you think?
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>As to how fast they were moving ; didnt Capt Archer say to the crew it would take a week or so to get used to flying at 30,000 kilometers per second, just before they lost all power?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Lightspeed is 300,000 KM/s.
Maybe he said 30 million KM/s = 100c |
Re: OT: Enterprise...What did you think?
Note:
Warp 5 on pre-2287 scale.... |
Re: OT: Enterprise...What did you think?
while these might not be totally to spec
here is a web site with some interesting specs http://home.att.net/~enterprise1701d/ste/tech.html |
Re: OT: Enterprise...What did you think?
I will admit to liking Enterprise. And I'll likely continue to watch it. While most folks have fired off opinions about things that were ... bothersome, like the "shower scene", I had a more general problem. And in fact, it's a problem that EVERY Star Trek series has shared... temporal linear inconsistancy.
The time lines just NEVER work. Phased pistols in use while the original pilot for the 1701 Enterprise crew had lasers (already mentioned); Klingons in the "modern" form (bumpy headed barbarian warriors with strong senses of honor) when in ToS they were... well, clearly different. And if explained as the Klingons being "modified" so that the humans would be more trusting, well... as usual, the Star Trek historians completely forgot about the first Klingons they met. Give me a break. And despite the fact that the ToS Enterprise was sent out on a 5 year mission to meet new races, that base/trading post they hit had dozens of races that never appear again. Again, I liked it. And I'll watch it. But as with all Star Trek, you really need to not only suspend disbelief, you often have to add blinders and memory depleters as well. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif General John |
Re: OT: Enterprise...What did you think?
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>at warp 1 a ship could travel from the sun to earth in about 8 seconds<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I have to correct this one:
Earth is 8 light-MINUTES from the sun, not seconds. Warp 1 is the speed of light. So the ship would take 8 minutes at warp 1. 8 seconds at warp one would take you only a few earth-moon lengths away. |
Re: OT: Enterprise...What did you think?
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Baron Munchausen:
Baal, In fact, most of us COULD make a better show -- if we could do it OURSELVES. But a television show is always the product of a committee, and has to be because it's such a huge project. If you have any acquaintance with the folk-wisdom called "Murphy's Law" jokes you know what that does to the quality of the finished product, of course. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif Anyway, we have every right to *****-whine-moan about the quality, or lack thereof, in our entertainment. They are trying to sell it to us. Like any other product, we need to consider its merits and deficiences so we can decide if it's worth "buying" with our time, or if we ought to do something else that would be more valuable. Finish our SE IV mods, for example. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif And anyway, if you don't like to see whining about a tv show made with so much 'hard work' then you don't have to click on the thread and read it. DISCLAIMER: This post is directed at one person. It is just an opinion anyway and it’s not as if anyone forced you to read it. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/ima...ons/tongue.gif http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/ima...ons/tongue.gif http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/ima...ons/tongue.gif [This message has been edited by Baron Munchausen (edited 28 September 2001).]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> **** you Baron. All you people who nit pick a TV show apart are a bunch of whiney *****es. Baron, I look forward to the piece of dog **** that you put together. I doubt you could even get started so maybe you should shut your damned mouth and let the people who do make the shows make the shows. As was stated earlier. People will watch Star Trek even if you don't like it so maybe you should go find some other show to grind down to nothing. Maybe it's about time you people were content with the fact that someone out there made a new show in the ST universe instead of just *****ing like the Baron here. If I were in charge I would never have made Enterprise. I would have made a new series not attached to the ST universe so you people would have to maybe watch it for its content instead of hunting for technicalities. Maybe you should take all the energy/effort you use to criticize what you quite obviously can not do yourself and build a 2500 foot tall building or something. In the end the building actually means something. DISCLAIMER: This post is directed mostly at Baron Whateverhis****ingnameis but also at all you *****ing trekkies who would not know a good TV series if it rammed the Empire State Building up your tight little *******s. (Note: I did not start by insulting you Baron. You insulted me first.) |
Re: OT: Enterprise...What did you think?
Ohhhhhhh!
Simmer down people!! There is no need for profanity...(or personal attacks!) I personally LOVE the new show, but yes I will pick it apart...Its HUMAN NATURE!! Go to ANY board and you will fine people talking about what they love....and PICKING IT APART!! They do it about Trek, Buffy, Angel, Comics (see some of the flame wars that go on there, they had to install a damn auto-censor for pete's sake!), SEIV!!!(we do nothing but love and pick apart this game!!) Look at most world RELIGIONS, they pick each other apart, and not nicely! I looked forward to the season premiere of the Practice all summer....I liked it mostly, but I did pick it apart at the end...And I'll watch Buffy (yeah I know, don't start!! http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/ima...ons/icon12.gif) and they will bring her back to life, and I will pick it apart as I believe they should have kept here gone and then bring her back 1/2 way thru the year..(during Feb sweeps probally), but that is just my opinion... anyway....I know nobody asked me, and I will probally get slammed, but heck it IS human nature to look at something and think they can do better...... ------------------ "We are all...the sum of our scars"....(paraphrased) Matt. R. Stover-'Blade of Tyshalle'. "Human existance is all imagination...Reality is no more than a simple agreement among its participants that this is where we shall meet, and these are the rules that we shall abide by."- Kevin McCarthy/David Silva "The Family:Special Effects".. |
Re: OT: Enterprise...What did you think?
We don't need flames on this forum, lets try to keep the tone civil, k?
I would just like to say that the trekkie nitpicking, and "whining" (tone is subjective and hard to put in text form), does not nessesarily imply that the person does not like the show. ISTM, that the people with the largets collections of picked nits are the most dedicated fans. Like, geoschmo said: "Those of us that have been fans for years really enjoy this kind of thing. It gives us a sense of being a part of a community." To be a trekkie, you've gotta know all of the picky details and mistakes, and still love the show. Most people who do not like a show will stop watching it, and move on, not knowing or caring about all the little details. We should probably express more appreciation for the hard work going into the show, but customs are hard to change. |
Re: OT: Enterprise...What did you think?
Baal, that is so out of chacter coming from you I am almost tempted to say someone got a hold of your password. I suggest you tone it down immediately. I expect Richard to come down on you quite harshly if you don't. He might even if you do. Your post was that out of line.
Feel free to disagree, but keep it mature, or keep it to yourself. Geoschmo |
Re: OT: Enterprise...What did you think?
Baal:
Sorry, but people in this culture do nasty things like remember details, and compare and contrast shows with one another. It's pop culture, not religion. Although, FYI, I feel I have the right to discuss, compare, and criticize religions, too. (I would keep that to approriate forums, of course.) If you don't like disagreement and criticism then maybe you should move to Iran or Afghanistan. You will find everyone properly respectful of every sort of authority there, because they get murdered if they aren't. I hope you are ready to convert to the appropriate fundamentalist sect of Islam. I don't know why you've got such a burr up your arse over a tv show, but there's absolutely nothing you can do to stop the discussion. Everyone has a right to have an opinon, unless their opinion involves depriving others of their right to an opinion. It's call pluralism. If you can't live with that in regard to this tv show, you'd best not click on this thread anymore. So if you won't take a humorous suggestion then take a direct warning: GO AWAY. If you continue abusing everyone who dares to touch your holy tv show then you will soon be joining our friend LCC in the outer darkness. [This message has been edited by Baron Munchausen (edited 01 October 2001).] |
Re: OT: Enterprise...What did you think?
Baron & Baal: Please take a second look through this thread, find where it went wrong and then read your post before that one.
I think that you, Baron were taking the situation too lightly, and you, Baal took it much too seriously, and exploded. You've got to give people the chance to apologise for something that offends you, and not post while you're still furious. For what its worth, I have been in that situation myself, and it was only a network error stopped me from flaming. Typing a message over again can give you time to think about what you're doing. You two should seroiusly consider editing down your Posts, and translating them into civil english. ------------ Geoschmo: You've got the first post, and have the power to remove this thread if/when you feel it is appropriate. Choose wisely. |
Re: OT: Enterprise...What did you think?
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>... warp 5 is 214 times the speed of light.
How about warp 9.9999 equals 199,516 times the speed of light. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> If I remember correctly, you cube the Warp Factor to arrive at the speed. So, warp 5 is 5 * 5 * 5 = 125 times the speed of light. If you recall from the Voyager episodes, they were 70,000 light years from home or at least 70 years from home if they were able to achieve warp 10 which would be 10 * 10 * 10 = 1000 times the speed of light. |
Re: OT: Enterprise...What did you think?
OK...
Many inconsistencies / illogicalities were introduced in The Original Series, back in the days when they couldn't give a long garlic fart for things like continuity or scientific plausibility. By the time The Next Generation came around, they realised what a bunch of pedantic freaks us sciffies are, and tried their best to straighten out as many inconsistencies and scientific nonsenses as possible without trashing the existing continuity. For example, interstellar distances, speeds and such were often way off in TOS, and words like "sector" & "quadrant" were bandied about pretty much at random. In TNG, they fixed the definitions (ie quadrant= 1/4 of the galaxy, sector = smaller area of space which may hold many star systems.) For data storage they made up the term "kiloquad", because they knew that if they used real terminology (ie Gigabytes) then by 1996 the Enterprise-D's computer would look as advanced as a Commodore 64. As for warp speeds, in TOS warp speeds were pretty much made up as they went along. The maximum for the TOS enterprise was about 8 or 9 I think, but in some episodes it acheived more, sometimes upwards of warp 14, by means of unexpected alien intervention and so on. Some hardy fans made up various non-linear scales to fit around the shows, but they were convoluted and not particularly robust. Then TNG came in, and they abandoned the old "system" and introduced the scale detailed below by Mephisto, where warp 10 would involve occupying every point in the universe simultaneously. This has been faithfully adhered to ever since. (TNG, DS9, VOY, although I can't comment on the new series) It's also worth remembering that there are other, quicker ways to get about in Trek (Trans-warp conduits, wormholes, Q's finger) *dogscoff steps back into his Trek closet and closes the door. ------------------ SE4 Code: L GdY $ Fr- C- Sd T!+ Sf-- Tcp-- A% M>M+ MpD! RV Pw Fq+ Nd- Rp+ G- /SE4 Code Go to my meagre SEIV pages to generate your own code. [This message has been edited by dogscoff (edited 01 October 2001).] |
Re: OT: Enterprise...What did you think?
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Then TNG came in, and they abandoned the old "system" and introduced the scale detailed below by Mephisto, where warp 10 would involve occupying every point in the universe simultaneously. This has been faithfully adhered to ever since. (TNG, DS9, VOY, although I can't comment on the new series)
It's also worth remembering that there are other, quicker ways to get about in Trek (Trans-warp conduits, wormholes, Q's finger)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>All very resonable. I can say that the new series defineltey doesn't follw the TNG scale, for the reason I posted below. But that would make sense I guess since "Enterprise" is pre-TOS, it should not use the same scale as TNG for sure. So we can asume that there was a scientific consensus of some type between the years of the TOS and TNG that revised the warp scale. Logical. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/ima...ons/icon12.gif However, I seem to recall some discrepancies even within the TNG and post TNG series. Can't remember specifically where, but I will try to find them. Not that it is particually important, other than to demonstrate the point that scales are mutable. But I think we are all in agreement on that. Geo Edit: In just a few minutes of looking I found one example from a TNG episode where the travled 4.5 light years at warp 2. They covered the distance in a few minutes. According to the TNG warp scale that distance and speed the trip would have taken months. I am sure there are more examples, that just the first one I found. All this is not a complaint. Star Trek is one of my favorite shows. I think the inconsistancies just give the show character. They don't bother me at all. But that doesn't mean I ignore them. They are like little inside jokes that only us "pedantic scifie freaks" will get, which makes them that much funnier. Geoschmo Pedantic Scifie Freak Second Class [This message has been edited by geoschmo (edited 01 October 2001).] |
Re: OT: Enterprise...What did you think?
News Flash: Jesse Jackson has volunteered to mediate between Baron M. and Baal.
|
Re: OT: Enterprise...What did you think?
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by dogscoff:
OK... Many inconsistencies / illogicalities were introduced in The Original Series, back in the days when they couldn't give a long garlic fart for things like continuity or scientific plausibility. By the time The Next Generation came around, they realised what a bunch of pedantic freaks us sciffies are, and tried their best to straighten out as many inconsistencies and scientific nonsenses as possible without trashing the existing continuity. For example, interstellar distances, speeds and such were often way off in TOS, and words like "sector" & "quadrant" were bandied about pretty much at random. In TNG, they fixed the definitions (ie quadrant= 1/4 of the galaxy, sector = smaller area of space which may hold many star systems.) For data storage they made up the term "kiloquad", because they knew that if they used real terminology (ie Gigabytes) then by 1996 the Enterprise-D's computer would look as advanced as a Commodore 64. As for warp speeds, in TOS warp speeds were pretty much made up as they went along. The maximum for the TOS enterprise was about 8 or 9 I think, but in some episodes it acheived more, sometimes upwards of warp 14, by means of unexpected alien intervention and so on. Some hardy fans made up various non-linear scales to fit around the shows, but they were convoluted and not particularly robust. Then TNG came in, and they abandoned the old "system" and introduced the scale detailed below by Mephisto, where warp 10 would involve occupying every point in the universe simultaneously. This has been faithfully adhered to ever since. (TNG, DS9, VOY, although I can't comment on the new series) It's also worth remembering that there are other, quicker ways to get about in Trek (Trans-warp conduits, wormholes, Q's finger) *dogscoff steps back into his Trek closet and closes the door. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> What makes you think they give a garlic fart for consistency or plausibility now? Had you heard that the scripts were written 'formulaicly' with blank technobabble spaces filled as "TECH" until the 'tech consultants' turn came to work over the script and make up technical jargon to let the story work the way the writers want it to? Paramount has never, ever cared anything for consistency or plausibility. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon9.gif In many ways, Trek on tv and movies is the opposite of SciFi. Technial jargon is added as decoration on a soap opera. It's only in the novels that much real SciFi occurs. As for warp speed scales, the old "Star Fleet Technical Reference" from the days before TNG even started up said that warp speed cubed was the multiple of light speed for that warp factor. Then for TNG they changed it to something much more complex. Some of the formulas given here might be correct or might not. I can't remember anymore. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif Not that Paramount ever took it's own 'sanctioned' publications into account when writing, though. Yeah, on the old scale warp 4.5 (which seems to be their cruising maximum -- you cannot run an engine full-out for days and weeks) would be about 91 times the speed of light, so 4 days journey would be just about one light year. The Klingon homeworld has got to be further away than that, so those 'tech consultants' must have just been called in at the Last minute again to insert words here and there rather than really examine the script. Someone in the writing dept. must have decided that travel time for dramatic purposes. If the real travel time was used, week and months, then great stories about galactic events become much more difficult to cram into a 1 hour show. You do have to wonder, if other star systems were that easil accessible, why humanity would sit around and do nothing just because the Vulcans didn't think they were ready. Entire empires just DAYS away? Cripes. They must have been really intimidated by those 'parental' Vulcans... http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif [This message has been edited by Baron Munchausen (edited 01 October 2001).] |
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