[OT] Roguelikes?
 

I was an avid player of Adom and Nethack (and the Slash'em fork in a minor way) in the good ol' days. Now both these projects seems to be in a "freezing" status.

Reading some posts in ths forum I learned about Dwarf Fortreass (very intriguing, but too much complex for me) and Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup, a roguelike with lot of very interesting and "modern" conepts.

Could you hint me some good (and actively supported) roguelikes?
Thanks.

Re: [OT] Roguelikes?
 

Have you tried Incursion?

Re: [OT] Roguelikes?
 

Have you looked into some of Shrapnels games? Such as Scallywag?

Have you looked into MUDs? They are Rogue as multiplayer. They come in all flavors so you are bound to find one you like.
I wouldnt call it "supported" but I do still host a DnD mud called Shadowdale. SDmud.org port 7777

Gandalf Parker

Re: [OT] Roguelikes?
 

Dungeon Crawl is awesome.

Incursion tries to use Dungeons and Dragons rules (3rd edition), and it seems to work. It has very nice dungeons. You have to actually sleep to regain hitpoints or spellpoints, but thankfully you can camp together with the other adventurers.
There are lots of spells and lots of feats and lots of choices, which makes character generation quite complicated.

DoomRL is pretty good, especially with the sounds on. It's Doom 1 as a roguelike, with Doom1 music/sounds, random levels and blood spatters and explosions and lots of fun stuff.

Dwarf Fortress is absurdly complicated, and awesome in its complexity. I haven't played it for a while, because there aren't any actual gameplay goals in it ATM, but I still read about the new stuff. "Today was compound fractures as well as fractured layers being knocked inward to damage soft inner portions. So a bone in the arm for example could break through the skin if the arm is struck." It's awesome to read, even though I don't actually play the game. I mean, roguelike with an animated ocean, and waves? Trees turning yellow in autumn and dropping their leaves for winter? Bushfires?

Re: [OT] Roguelikes?
 

Yes, I've taken a look on the manual and it seems so. What are the main differencies/improvement in playing between Dungeon Crawl and Nethack or Adom?

Thanks.

Re: [OT] Roguelikes?
 

Omnirizon wants to create a Dom3-inspired roguelike. If he ever gets to finish it... :D

I think this thread should be moved to the main Dom3 section, no use in mods&maps only.

Re: [OT] Roguelikes?
 

In Crawl, identify is a rare commodity. You test scrolls, potions, wands and even magical weapons by using them. Scrolls of remove curse and potions of healing are pretty common, so once you have several scrolls you can probably fix whatever happens, and random potion is often a heal.

In Crawl, you can't sell to shops. Together with the first one AND the fact that magical items have descriptive adjectives (glowing, runed etc), this means that you don't carry half the dungeon with you.
Also, no blessed items and no way to bless items. Useful scrolls are always useful.

In Crawl, you can't sacrifice monsters at altars. You have to please the gods through your actions. That can be 'p'raying, and then killing everything that moves and mutilating their corpses, or not poisoning your opponents, or leveling up. Xom often notices you when you level up. It isn't always good...

In Crawl, you only improve skills when 1) you use the skill and 2) you have free experience. To become better at what you do, you just keep doing it. To learn new stuff, e.g. spellcasting when you're a warrior, start by reading scrolls when you have spare exp.

In Crawl, I haven't seen a single cockatrice, gorgon, Banshee or any other creature that will kill you unless you had the Amulet of Protection Against Gorgons. There are some nasty surprises, of course, but I haven't seen any instant deaths.

In general, you aren't rewarded for doing boring stuff, and your choices are only limited by aptitudes and your ability to stay alive. Aptitudes tell how easy it is to learn skills, lower is better.

Re: [OT] Roguelikes?
 

I didn't even realized I posted it in the mod&maps subforum, sorry.

Re: [OT] Roguelikes?
 

Well, not that its the most complicated game, but I find Zangband highly addictive and return to it over and over. Also the old classic Omega is great.

Re: [OT] Roguelikes?
 

Angband and its many many variants are my cup of tea.

You should be able to find a variant you like, and if you are a Tolkien fan then you should appreciate it all the more.

Re: [OT] Roguelikes?
 

I haven't tried Zangband, but have found vanilla Angband and NPPAngband to be quite enjoyable. ToME has massive variety (you can choose a Death Mold as a character race, among other things), and a world map you can wander around on, but it didn't feel very balanced.

I think I tried Adom once, but didn't like the way shopkeeper transactions worked - seemed too tedious. Maybe Angband and co. have spoiled me, but I like having a letter-indexed menu when I'm shopping. Also, IIRC, the developer was not interested in releasing the sources. Being a software developer myself, I understand the desire to keep control of creative direction... but look at Angband - it has outlived many of its offspring and even assimilated some of their features over time.

Re: [OT] Roguelikes?
 

I second Dwarf Fortress and Crawl Stone Soup.

Nethack et al. are top-notch. they are probably in freeze status simply because the original developers are getting Alzheimers.

I wish their were more *hack style games. I think *bands won out due to them being more rote power-gaming (kill kill kill. no end to items/monsters. more stuff is more important than id'ing what you have). I think Nethack has more finesse and elegance in gameplay than any other roguelike.

you could also give GearHead and 3059 a whirl, they are some of your only options if your in for some sci-fi rogue action. The creator of 3059 is now working on 3069. they are both OK games, and mature. However they just don't have the legacy nor the development background of any mainstream rogue (all of which are fantasy based).

Dwarf Fortress is my number one though. It is really a great game.

Re: [OT] Roguelikes?
 

Today I have just heard about this one:

UnReal World

http://www.jmp.fi/~smaarane/urw.html

I havent played it myself but it looks good, perhaps someone has more info on it.

Re: [OT] Roguelikes?
 

Just seen this one lately myself. Downloaded the demo, but have not fired it up yet - dominionism...

flick through the wiki - sure does look interesting

http://unrealworldwiki.net/index.php?title=Main_Page

Re: [OT] Roguelikes?
 

I'm currently sick with adomitis. I managed to beat NetHack several times, even with a tourist, but ADOM is just too hard for me. Yet. I somehow don't understand why Dwarf Fortress gets classified as roguelike. Sure, graphically it is, but to me it's a real time wait for your dwarves to do stuff. Lots of stuff, mind you, and lots of commands, but real time. There's a roguelike (rpg) mode somewhere I believe, but I never managed to get far enough to find it.

Re: [OT] Roguelikes?
 

Yeah DF is really a complex simulator that has ascii graphics. However I think it also has an adventure mode? Which is roguelike

Re: [OT] Roguelikes?
 

How to play ADOM on easy mode:

Play Wizard.

They will simply own everything in the late game and they have the best means of escape when in trouble: Teleport.

When you encounter a large stack enemies, zap them unitl your mana is nearly depleted, teleport and go somewhere safe to regenerate the mana. Then assault the survivors, teleport again, rince and repeat ad infitum.
Nothing in that game is completely immune to magic, Karmic dragons are annoying, but I've killed Ancient karmic wyrms with "Magic Missile".

Re: [OT] Roguelikes?
 

The farthest I got in ADOM was with a drakeling paladin who learnt teleport somehow. Wizards still have to find the spellbook and survive before that. I rarely manage to even reach Khelavaster, so late game is not as much of an issue as mid-game since I don't reach it often.

Re: [OT] Roguelikes?
 

The adventure mode is avialable when you create a world. New game, adventure.

I played a little bit of unreal world. Don't feel qualified to talk about it much. Its more a survival sim. You can get killed by a herd of reindeer if your not carefull. But its a good game. Very detailed.

Re: [OT] Roguelikes?
 

How...how did I miss this thread. I hear a trumpet fanfare!

Right then folks, let's get down to business as this is my forte:

http://roguebasin.roguelikedevelopme...itle=Main_Page This here is one of your best bets for discerning new releases as they exist across a variety of projects.

http://roguebasin.roguelikedevelopme...ted_Roguelikes This here is good in general for those well out of the loop and wanting a big/updated list to wrap your heads around and link hunt.

http://www.gamesetwatch.com/column_at_play/ This is a column you will want to read regularly to discover forgotten gems, new developments, and generally discuss the lot of things.

http://planetrl.elderlore.com/ Another good news outlet

http://cymonsgames.retroremakes.com/7drl-reviews/ For reviews of the latest entrants in the 7DRL competition

http://www.roguetemple.com/ The best message and discussion board overall for the subject...fair amount of new things announced and monitored here.

http://groups.google.com/groups/dir?...ames.roguelike The google group where nearly everything else is mentioned, likely home for YASD/YAVP posts

Now then, as that should handle a bit of the broad end of the spectrum, allow me to nod in some specific interesting directions:

http://koti.mbnet.fi/frozend/ Frozen Depths..has a unique Cold theme

http://trianglewizard.webs.com/index.htm Triangle Wizard Unique graphical style, unorthodox gameplay, uncannily rapid development

http://sites.google.com/site/crawlvariations/ Zot Defense Very recent up and coming Crawl: Stone Soup variant that aims to make a Tower Defense game out of it.

http://keye.phk.at/ Kamyran's Eye 1 and 2. 1 being freeware, 2 being for budget sale and has a free demo. Other than Scallywag and to an extend UnRealWorld, 2 is one of the last known retail Roguelikes.

http://www.minesofmorgoth.com/ Mines of Morgoth Very ambitious and long in the making updated homage to Moria that is NOT Angband'y. Almost done, will retail soon, has a free demo currently up.

http://glistenimages.com/Lukos/lukosMageGuild.htm Mage Guild Eschews the usual Roguelike genocidal tendencies to instead reward the player with increased power upon finding an item on each level and making it from dungeon level to dungeon level. Advanced alchemy system allows for some interesting situations.

http://myweb.cableone.net/gmcnutt/nazghul.html Nazghul Graphical CRPG/Roguelike attempt that aims to draw in many a folk.

http://lambdarogue.net/index.php LambdaRogue The greatest Roguelike in regard to Trailers for each version, as well as the interesting notion that you will pretty much HAVE to play the game proper as there's intentionally next to no spoilers available for it---thus creating a bit more imperative adventure compared to many rounds of playing Nethack by the numbers.

http://www.zincland.com/powder/index.php?pagename=news POWDER is an interesting graphical Roguelike for the PC, GBA, DS and a host of other platforms and is good fun with some unique eccentricities.

http://forums.tigsource.com/index.php?topic=4017.0 Spelunky essentially asks the question of what if you crossed a Roguelike with Indiana Jones/La Mulana/Maze of Galious---the answer will likely delight you.

http://www.kolumbus.fi/topi_ylinen/peleron/ Peleron's Brilliant Rebirth is a semi-Roguelike CRPG thing trying to wrangle a unique fantasy world and has some rather lofty aims along the way. Currently in early alpha but looking very promising.

http://buildingworlds.com/telengard/ Lastly, here's a remake of an old C64 game by the name of Telengard...oddly enough made by one of the developers behing the PC game FATE.

I'm always happy to answer and Roguelike questions if I know the answer to them! :cool:

Re: [OT] Roguelikes?
 

For those not in the know, 7DRL stands out for "7-day roguelike". It's a competition where roguelike designers try to take a week's break from their absurd projects to try to make a complete game in just seven days. Some of the games are ingenious, and are later honed further. The finished projects are very interesting even when they aren't good games, and they often are. It's surprising that a fun game can be made in so little time, when you consider how hard it is to make one in a year...

Re: [OT] Roguelikes?
 

first, thanks a ton to getter77.

second, I can't help but plug the FourthAge roguelike which will soon re-enter development (after a semester long break).

My goal over the semester was to do one thing: get some sort of map generation.

Thanks to some tips my lch and a weekend spent reading up on fractal and noise generation algorithms (and the availablity of existing implementations of these things), I've got a foundation for terrain generation which I am close to getting prepped for generating the kinds of maps I want for FourthAge.

I'm using Perlin Noise. It seems like a simple way to model terrain, providing a one-number-per-pixel representation. In its simplest form, the number is mapped to greyscale (higher being whiter and lower black, or vice-versa) and produces these 'plasma cloud' images. The noise can be smoothed, and multiple layers (called octaves) can even be blended together, it can even produce noise in multiple dimensions (1D, 2D, 3D, even 4D for time variable noise in 3D). These values can be mapped to discrete colors, or even objects (for example, a city scape can be made by assigning each number to a particular building, since Perlin noise tends to clump but also can look diluted, you simply place buildings that are likely to be built next to each other together in the range of numbers. This will produce cities with industrial areas, downtowns, suburbs, ect.) It seems like a very simply baseline, and to my understanding is used as base noise in other fractal algorithms.

The only issue I am wrestling with now is understanding base noise and 'permutation' tables. I've read that Perlin Noise takes base noise and applies it to the algorithm. An entire grid of base noise is memory intensive and slow, instead a lookup table (permutation table) is used. I just don't understand the relationship between the length of the table, the values (and repeated values), and what kind of base noise is provided. I understand the table cannot have a value higher than its (length - 1). What about repeated values in the table? I also understand the lookup will 'wrap-around' the table. Does this mean that it goes through cells, assigning each cell a value out of the table until it reaches the end of the table, then starts at the beginning of the table again? Doesn't this make some sort of too obvious pattern in the noise? Does my table need to be as long as the number of cells I have to prevent this? Doesn't this leave me back at the memory problem that lookup tables were originally meant to ameliorate? I just don't know.

Once I've completely grasped these issues, I'll begin working with the implementation and getting some maps out of it. I've already produced some greyscale stuff, but am not moving on until I understand the issues of base noise.

Any experts on the issue feel free to contact me :)

Re: [OT] Roguelikes?
 

If you've not already Omnirizon, I highly recommend you submit your technical queries to the Google Group and/or the Roguetemple board...as there are technical minded folk there that would surely take a gander and weigh in.

I also forgot some earlier, oops. Furthermore then:

http://roguelikefiction.com/ Legerdemain Combines Roguelike with Advtenture game to a nifty result. Had an old school cluebook version of the game you could get awhile back, well made and in journal form sitting on my dresser---free in general though.

http://www.zincland.com/7drl/letterhunt/ Letterhunt is an older 7DRL project that falls into the "so nifty" category alluded to above. Conquer the alphabet in an entirely different manner all over again.

http://egoboo.sourceforge.net/ Egoboo is a long developed Roguelikeish thing that is graphical and has an interesting, if whimsical, style to it.

http://slashie.net/news.php Many interesting projects here, including the newfound Expedition and older projects that we all dream of further completion on like CastlevaniaRL

http://hokuto-no-rogue.sourceforge.net/ Hokuto no Rogue is something the classical 80's anime fans will immediately recognize and salivate over. Still early but the Java and graphical implementations are very promising and does some appropriate, yet nifty, things like locational damage targetting.

http://homepage3.nifty.com/rfish/index_e.html
http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/Elona_Wiki

Elona is a hyper feature packed graphical Roguelike that is potentially downright creepy depending on how one plays it. Perhaps the most outlandish Sandbox of a Roguelike out there yet.

http://www.freewebs.com/drussell/index.htm Feeling like some classics like never before? This man has you covered with a classic Rogue, graphical Rogue, graphical Hack(predecessor to Nethack), and various other projects.

http://scourge.wikia.com/wiki/S.C.O.U.R.G.E.
http://scourgeweb.org/tiki-index.php

SCOURGE, while the main site is down right now, is a graphical 3/4'ish perspective up and coming party based Roguelike that is bursting with ambition and graphical flare attempts. In dev for quite awhile now and chugging along thusly with their newfound wiki helping to keep it all together.

Hmm...that'll do until some other stuff comes to mind that I might've forgotten these times around.

Re: [OT] Roguelikes?
 

I've played Dwarf Fortress, ADOM, Crawl and Nethack in that order.

Dwarf Fortress is fun and complex in dwarf mode, but I wouldn't really call it a roguelike. It's sort of like a cross between The Sims and the Caesar/Pharaoh/etc. games. Adventure mode is definitely a roguelike. It's alot of fun and has cool concepts, but it feels incomplete compared to the other games I mentioned.

I never really got into Nethack and ADOM. Compared to Crawl they're a lot less random and more spoiler reliant.

I've made it to, but not beat, the endgame in Crawl. In a lot of ways Crawl feels like a turn based Diablo with greater playstyle variety. As other people have mentioned, there aren't any moments like "you weren't wearing item a when creature b attacked so you auto-die". Unfortunately, what it does have are moments like "you ran into Sigmund with a wand of draining on level two of the dungeon and there was no possible escape." You can get screwed by the RNG more easily than in the other two. Also, I find the that the tile verion of Crawl with a real GUI really does add to the game, tradition be damned.

Re: [OT] Roguelikes?
 

http://www.asceai.net/meritous/ Meritous was another good, distilled one I forgot about---a nicely different style it has going for it.

Re: [OT] Roguelikes?
 

It finally happened. v1.0 of Mines of Morgoth, www.minesofmorgoth.com , is at last available for digital purchase. Development will continue to add and such as time goes on. Not since the local Scallywag has anything like this happened to my knowledge on the PC front---so I see this as a pretty big deal. Refresh the site a couple times if you don't see the purchase section.

Cost seems to be 19 Euros.