Custom map generation programs
 

Playing around with the map editor, I found that there were certain map features that I'd like to add. I can do them manually, but it would take days or perhaps even weeks to make the kinds of maps that I want. [Imagine each warp point leads to a sector and each sector has a dozen stars with a dozen or more planets stacked 'under' each star.]

Is it possible to get the .MAP file spec so that I can create a utility to auto-generate these high density maps for me?
--
TAZ

Re: Custom map generation programs
 

Try modding the data files to create quadrants and systems, maybe you can make the game randomly generate the maps you want.

Re: Custom map generation programs
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Imagine each warp point leads to a sector and each sector has a dozen stars with a dozen or more planets stacked 'under' each star.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

sounds like a cluster type map to me.
The only way to get the .map spec is probably figuring it out yourself.
You could try and ask Aaron for it.

Re: Custom map generation programs
 

QUOTE:
sounds like a cluster type map to me.
/QUOTE

I don't think that's what he had in mind. It sounds more to me like each square in each systm is a solar systm of it's own, so instad of just on planet or maybe a planet and a few moons, a square could have a sun and dozens of planets in.

------------------
SE4 Code:
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/SE4 Code
Go to my meagre SEIV pages to generate your own code.

Re: Custom map generation programs
 

Bingo! A very high density map with a dozen solar systems per system map. Basically the scale would be one light year or more per square. For example, Sol and all of its planets would just be a single square on the system map. Any mobile unit would be an FTL unit. (Fighters might be tricky since I want them to be agile, but non-FTL. Still too new to the game to know if they will be a problem or not.)

The question/request about the .MAP file spec still stands. Given the map editor, I could eventually figure out the file spec. But, I'd rather be working on utilities than reverse engineering a file layout.
--
TAZ

[This message has been edited by zircher (edited 28 September 2001).]

Re: Custom map generation programs
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>(Fighters might be tricky since I want them to be agile, but non-FTL<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Give thier engines the "afterburner" ability only: they then get good combat movement, but no map movement.
You'll have to make the fighter engines big, since only one per ship would be effective.

Re: Custom map generation programs
 

Your problem interested me so I tried something along those lines...

This is the result and the problems I saw right off.

First it doesn't display the star on top but the Last item for that sector created. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/ima...ons/icon12.gif

All the stars are considered part of the same system so are labeled that way.

The planets are labeled as Whatever Star A, B, C, etc. probably has to do with being right over the star. Hrmm... Come to think of it, it most likely relates to the planets being considered moons of the Star.

Also you might run into some other problems with technology. A star destroying component would be devestating. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/ima...ons/icon12.gif And those Crystaline resource generators.

Ermm... I don't know.. you might get some error message about atmosphere or something or maybe not. I just copied from my standard files and I know I have modded so much stuff that I can't keep track of it. Though this should be close to what you want regardless as the error Messages I got weren't fatal or crashing type things.

I tried this with 4 stars randomly positioned with rings and then some planets and asteroids and a mix. Something like this what you had in mind?

PS: I whipped this up in a few minutes while I had some free time so I in no way guarantee any minnimum of quality in it. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/ima...ons/icon12.gif


[This message has been edited by Cyrien (edited 28 September 2001).]

[This message has been edited by Cyrien (edited 28 September 2001).]

Re: Custom map generation programs
 

This idea sounds great. It would obviously allow for a much greater density of planets.

There would be three levels of movment.
1) Inside a solar system (only in combat)
2) Intra-system (non-warp capable shipe)
3) Inter-system (warp capable)
Makes for lots of possibilities

Is there a limit to the number of planets in a game? (hard coded or something?)

Would every system connect to all adjacent systems, so you could freely around?



------------------
Never Give up, Never Surrender!

Re: Custom map generation programs
 

Cyrien:
&gt; Your problem interested me so I tried
&gt; something along those lines...

Thanks.

&gt;This is the result and the problems I saw
&gt; right off.
&gt;
&gt; First it doesn't display the star on top
&gt; but the Last item for that sector created.
&gt;
&gt; All the stars are considered part of the
&gt; same system so are labeled that way.
&gt;
&gt; The planets are labeled as Whatever Star
&gt; A, B, C, etc. probably has to do with
&gt; being right over the star. Hrmm... Come
&gt; to think of it, it most likely relates to
&gt; the planets being considered moons of the
&gt; Star.

That works for me. I can always try putting
the a star first and Last so that I get the
best of both effects.

&gt; Also you might run into some other
&gt; problems with technology. A star
&gt; destroying component would be devestating.
&gt; And those Crystaline resource generators.

Removing or changing the techs may solve that.

&gt; Ermm... I don't know.. you might get some
&gt; error message about atmosphere or
&gt; something or maybe not.

It appears that the program is smart enough
to handle that without error.

&gt; I just copied from my standard files and I
&gt; know I have modded so much stuff that I
&gt; can't keep track of it. Though this
&gt; should be close to what you want
&gt; regardless as the error Messages I got
&gt; weren't fatal or crashing type things.

I'll give it a try tonight.

&gt; I tried this with 4 stars randomly
&gt; positioned with rings and then some
&gt; planets and asteroids and a mix.
&gt; Something like this what you had in mind?

Just from the mesage context, it appears to
be on target. Looks like I'll need to dive
into the quadrant data file and see how it
ticks.

&gt; PS: I whipped this up in a few minutes
&gt; while I had some free time so I in no way
&gt; guarantee any minnimum of quality in it.

Still, I appreciate the effort. Y'all have
been most tolerant of my mad hatter ideas.
--
TAZ

[This message has been edited by zircher (edited 28 September 2001).]

Re: Custom map generation programs
 

What would the combat be like? Wouldn't the tactical screen be full of planets all clustered around the middle? That might prove to have some interesting battles. Imagine attacking a "system" with say 9 planets. How would you even be able to get at the planets toward the center? All the ones on the periphery with platforms or fighters could easily defend a planet in the middle. It would take a huge fleet to wipe out a "system" like that.

Re: Custom map generation programs
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by zircher:
Bingo! A very high density map with a dozen solar systems per system map. Basically the scale would be one light year or more per square. For example, Sol and all of its planets would just be a single square on the system map. Any mobile unit would be an FTL unit. (Fighters might be tricky since I want them to be agile, but non-FTL. Still too new to the game to know if they will be a problem or not.)

The question/request about the .MAP file spec still stands. Given the map editor, I could eventually figure out the file spec. But, I'd rather be working on utilities than reverse engineering a file layout.
--
TAZ

[This message has been edited by zircher (edited 28 September 2001).]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think the best route for you would be email MM or Shrapnel and ask directly. They may or may not see it here.

Phoenix-D

Re: Custom map generation programs
 

Kadste:
&gt; Would every system connect to all adjacent
&gt; systems, so you could freely around?

The current mapping idea is to connect each system map via six evenly space warp points so that each system map would be like a hexagon on a large wargamer's map.

If figure the AIs should be able to handle the simple map layout and deal with the high planet densities.
--
TAZ

[See the attached image for a better (if incomplete) example.]


[This message has been edited by zircher (edited 28 September 2001).]

Re: Custom map generation programs
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by chewy027:
What would the combat be like? Wouldn't the tactical screen be full of planets all clustered around the middle? That might prove to have some interesting battles. Imagine attacking a "system" with say 9 planets. How would you even be able to get at the planets toward the center? All the ones on the periphery with platforms or fighters could easily defend a planet in the middle. It would take a huge fleet to wipe out a "system" like that. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Cool... Honest answer is that I have no idea what will happen. But, I'm looking forward to finding out.
--
Todd "How many times can we crash SE4 this weekend?" Zircher

Re: Custom map generation programs
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Phoenix-D:
I think the best route for you would be email MM or Shrapnel and ask directly. They may or may not see it here.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I fired off a note to info@malfador.com and se4@malfador.com. Even mentioned that I'm willing to sign a non-disclosure agreement, if needed. So, the technical part of the equation is in a wait and see mode.

Much of the mapping part may be solved by editting the quadrant.txt file, but I'm still learning how far I can push SE4. :-)
--
TAZ

Re: Custom map generation programs
 

Cyrien's modifications are interesting. They generate the dense systems that I want. But, due to the nature of the beast, there is a randomness to the ordering. I can see the need to go 'low level' and write to the map file directly to ensure what I want.
--
TAZ

Re: Custom map generation programs
 

I am going to try for something a little more complex later... let you know if I get anything outa it. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/ima...ons/icon12.gif

The warp points with six points at even distribution would have to be modded by hand... unless you can get MM to hard code in an option for that.

Hrmm... still interesting.

As for combat. No worries there. I have found in my own experiments (trying to give Gas Giants a number of moons consistent with what we humans have seen in our own system) that the combat simulator can easily do about 16-20 planets at once in combat without it getting to crowded for ships to find their way. I only play with strategic for the most part and its worked pretty well.

Gives new value to the weapon platforms... each moon might be easy to take out but taken as a whole... http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/ima...ons/icon12.gif

[This message has been edited by Cyrien (edited 28 September 2001).]

Re: Custom map generation programs
 

Cyrien:
&gt; I am going to try for something a little
&gt; more complex later... let you know if I
&gt; get anything outa it. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/ima...ons/icon12.gif

Grand.

&gt; The warp points with six points at even
&gt; distribution would have to be modded by
&gt; hand... unless you can get MM to hard code
&gt; in an option for that.

One reason why I hope to be able to write .MAP files in the future. It would be very tedious to have to do several hundred systems by hand to get the layout that I want. I'd like to be able to write a utility to spawn other layouts like dense grids, triangluar battle fields for a three player arena, or other regular geometric arrangements.

&gt; As for combat. No worries there. I have
&gt; found in my own experiments (trying to
&gt; give Gas Giants a number of moons consistent
&gt; with what we humans have seen in our own
&gt; system) that the combat simulator can
&gt; easily do about 16-20 planets at once in
&gt; combat without it getting to crowded for
&gt; ships to find their way. I only play with
&gt; strategic for the most part and its worked
&gt; pretty well.

That's good to hear.
--
TAZ

Re: Custom map generation programs
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by zircher:

...Given the map editor, I could eventually figure out the file spec...

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

well, i tried that yesterday, i made a simple map with one system, saved it in two files, test.map and test2.map, and then compared them, guess what, they weren't the same http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/ima...s/confused.gif

Re: Custom map generation programs
 

Cyrien,

The error you were getting was no big deal. A simple typo between object 7 and 8 in the Systemtypes.txt. Here's the correction.

Geoschmo

Re: Custom map generation programs
 

Yah I picked it up myself going back through (don't you hate it when your brain goes too far ahead of your typing speed). http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/ima...ons/icon12.gif

Then I made several more and had to redo those. Makes things more interesting.

So far though my biggest triumph is in finding different ways of generating range check errors.

Looks like this is a job that needs to be painstakingly done by hand or accept the naturual failures in the system. Or get MM to code something new in. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/ima...ons/icon12.gif

I'll look for a little more as I have a few more ideas but I don't think anything is really going to come of it. We shall see though.

[This message has been edited by Cyrien (edited 29 September 2001).]