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EA Ulm - Flying Conans of Doom
Baalz, what is best in life? Playing a nation that keeps making you exclaim “cool!” every time you look at a new facet. I hadn’t really taken a close look at EA Ulm, but once I had I wonder why this is not a nation who is more universally feared. They’ve got so many solid things going for them, this is a nation you should be watching closely the whole game.
Steel Warriors. These guys are smaller/cheaper sacreds and cap only so you can’t really base your whole strategy on them, but they are totally awesome and you should use as many as you can get. Let me paint a picture for those of you thinking Ulm is a nation where the women call the shots. You’re going to want to take a major earth bless (bear with me) which turns these guys into near unstoppable juggernauts (well, by the human scale at least). They start out with a 12 protection. Add an earth bless. Add legions of steel. Add wooden warriors. Now let’s add in a minor nature component to the bless so that your mid 20’s protection can really go the mile. Add in a 13 defense on a size 2 guy, plus a length 3 weapon with a 13 attack skill (which works as a poor man’s awe against most guys wielding weapons who have a chance to get through your protection) and realize you’ve got a net 1 encumbrance. But wait, that’s just half the bundle of joy. Let’s look at what we’re laying out on the offense. That 13 attack skill (which is going to rack up stars before you know it) is delivering a 13 strength plus 9 damage weapon plus strength of giants comes to 26. That’ll spit some shields and kneecap some giants! These guys are worthy of the name Conan and half the justification for springing for such a nice blessing. To prove the gods love Conan they also gave these guys 75% frost resistance ensuring that there’s no giants they can’t slay. Drop a winter ward on them then use freezing mist for a nasty combo. Of course, they’re also plenty nasty enough with nothing but that blessing for indie clearing, particularly with their backup singers. Now, there is some truth to the fact that the women of Ulm carry much of the weight. The men give you important power concentration, but the women are going to provide the bulk of your armies. Why? Because they kick ***! There’s not much reason at all to recruit any male troops other than steel warriors, these vicious vixens have you covered. The shield maiden and steel maiden are both excellent infantry units, you’ll use depending on what you’re facing. Shield vs double sword, I’ll leave that choice as an exercise for the student, but also realize that these ladies are stealthy. This is one of the things that you should not loose sight of. Much like Vanheim or Pangea, EA Ulm is a stealth nation with fearsome raiding potential. You’ve got very solid stealthy units, and stealthy archers to back them up – no PD is safe. Did I mention you’ve also got stealthy combat mages? Speaking of your archers, the warrior maidens can also only be described as incredible. Its medium infantry plus an archer all wrapped up in a stealthy package for a reasonable price. What’s not to love? Unless you’re fighting someone practically immune to archers (Abysia, etc.) you’ll probably want to recruit mostly these lovely lasses by default because they’re very effective switch hitters. You should end up with some double air warrior smiths (wind guide) and some double fire ones (flaming arrows) fairly early so massive amounts of archers should be something that elicits a wicked grin. Alright, now let’s take a look at your mages. You might, at this point be thinking that I spent too much on the blessing for a nation with cap only sacreds. But you don’t have cap only sacreds. You’ve got sacreds you can recruit from every single fort. I’m speaking, of course, of the shaman. Again, let me paint a picture for you. Earth bless. Summon earth power. Boots of the messenger. On a unit cheap enough to be spilling out of every fort you put up, who can cast….magma eruption, destruction, blade wind, falling fires, raise skeletons, bane fire (don’t be afraid to pass out a couple gems to get the guys who are close to casting the spells you really wanted to cast). Oh, and with some boosters - relief because your reinvig wasn’t enough already. The potential magic output is staggering….near unending skellispam blocking for a rain of evocations that never quits (with none of the risks of communions), all on mages who bless up to a 13 protection with regen even if you’re too lazy to self buff them, take the time to apply ironskin and the enemy can’t even hurt them if they make it to the back. Oh, did I mention they also potentially self buff eagle eyes? Go with wind guide for the bigger battles, your evocation slingers will thank you. Oh yeah, and eyes of aiming are only 2 gems, look into that. But wait, there’s more. Those paying attention will probably already know where I’m going with this after reading my MA Ulm guide. Sacred earth mages. Well now, we’ve got potential thugs coming out of our ears and a nice forge bonus. Blessing, earthpower, ironskin, plus some nice options not available to MA Ulm like elemental fortitude. Toss in some good armor (along with some bracers of defense to double up on that earth blessing), a fire brand and a shield of beaten gold and start carving away with your almost 30 protection, high defense and regen. By good armor I mean elemental armor. Stick that on top of your elemental fortitude and stick an evil grin on top of that. In fact, it’s amazing how much better the warrior smiths of EA are compared to MA. The stuff you can apply that forge bonus to without empowering now runs the range from bottles of living water to winged boots to rune smashers and you can even get up to staffs of elemental mastery with a little work. What’s even better is you’ve got the mages to site search fire, water, earth, air, death and nature so if you do this right you’ll have plenty of gems to leverage in the gem rich EA. You have a good spread of magic, but you’ll potentially have a hard time casting the larger spells so let’s plan for that. Your bad *** infantry would really like some nice fog warriors and mass flight, and it’d be nice to be able to lay down a grip of winter when the situation merited it for your 1 encumbrance 75% CR Conans. Staffs of elemental mastery are pretty expensive and hard to get, much easier is adding a touch of astral to your pretender so that he can forge crystal shields. A2 smiths with a crystal shield can cast mass flight (think that might work well with a swarm of buffed Conans and dual weapon steel maidens?). 2 A2s working together can storm -> storm power -> fog warriors. A F2 with a crystal shield and fire skull can drop a firestorm (hmmm, mechanical men anyone?). A W2 with a shield, robe and bracelet can drop demon cleansing (haha, just try it Lanka/Yomi). A F/W one can drop acid storm - awesome late game as there’s no way to get a resistance and it does AP damage. Use this in combo with, say, high reinvig skelispamers (buffed with ironskin and regenerating from their blessing), swarm, elementals, etc to tie up the bad guys. Nature has it’s own booster which does a better job than the shield, but don’t neglect the nice stuff you can get up to in that path from mass protection to gai’s blessing (did I mention you can drop almost every battlefield wide elemental damage spell?). It could probably go without saying that earth buffs should also be ubiquitous, Conan with weapons of sharpness, quickening and mass flight will chop up anything from demon lords to tartarians and look stylish doing it. Steel maidens aren’t that much less scary and you’ll have a couple orders of magnitude more of them. What your opponent can possibly do once you're regularly dropping all this stuff together I'm not sure. Leverage fairy trod and cloud trapeze for some nasty surprises nobody would expect out of Ulm, even your PD is pretty damn nasty with these buffs. Don't forget the really nice stuff you can drop with no particular effort to, this is a nation just begging for half an excuse to drop a rain of stones or thank you for your thoughtfulness in bringing thugs into their battery of charm spam. I did mention rune smashers were cheap, and your mages tough enough to sit on the front line right? Now, you’ve got almost no astral, no blood (other than hopefully boostrapping up to blood stones), and fairly weak death magic. On first glance you might think this means you’re going to struggle late game. Hell no you're not. Why? Because you don’t need most of the things you get from these paths late game. Sure they’d be nice, but they’re not necessary and you can be very competitive without them. If flying Conans of Doom aren’t mobile enough for your needs and even your stealthy Fox Force Five ninja chicks are having trouble just remember that you’re crapping out a steady stream of very configurable thugs every turn. Your neighbor set up an early tartarian factory? Conveniently enough you’ve now got two dozen guys equipped with flying boots and holy scourges. Or demon banes. Or serpent kryss. Or whatever the hell it is your opponent really wishes you weren’t forging quite so cheaply and sticking on the reasonably priced guys streaming out of all your forts. Who needs SCs when you’re swimming in anti-SCs and some of the best combat mages in the game who are immune to everything while dropping the really nasty stuff from under double digit reinvig? Your recruitable units and mages scale up to the degree they’re competitive with the stuff everybody else wanted death and blood for and with a bit of cleverness all that stealth, flying boots and cloud trapeze goes a long way towards mitigating the lack of astral flexibility. True, you’re not going to be wishing for what you want or spamming ghost riders, but if you can’t be hella scary with the tools in your chest then you’re just not trying very hard. You probably don’t even want to spend many gems on summonings/rituals, with that fat forge bonus and all the hammers you’ve built up by now forging stuff to stick on your mages/thugs is probably the most efficient thing you can do. Alright, now we’re cooking with butter. Here’s how I maintain my title of evil bastard. You’ll want to shoehorn into bloodstones just as much as MA Ulm, it’s a tough call weather the extra boosters for your combat mages are more useful or the extra gems but the good news is you don’t have to decide, you get both (meaning all those shamans can use boots of the messenger and summon earthpower). You should slide into late game with a respectable earth income. Save up your gems over a couple turns and use your pretender to drop forge of the ancients. With forge of the ancients up your smiths forge items normally costing 5 gems for 1 gem apiece without using a hammer. Shields of beaten gold and fire brands for 2 gems apiece. The implications of crapping out 50 items a turn without exhausting your gem income combined with a virtually unlimited supply of self buffing thug chasises is mind boggling. Even if the forge is dispelled the very next turn you got so much of a return on investment it’s not even funny. If the fools you’re playing with *don’t* dispel it….I have a hard time imagining how you’d manage to lose. Now I haven’t really talked too much about your pretender or scales, just some magic paths you’ll probably want. Strong earth, weak nature and astral. There’s a couple different ways to go from an awake SC to an imprisoned amazing scales guy, or you could stack some more stuff on that Conan bless. Adding minor water and/or blood blessings would be welcome additions and get you pretty easily into clams and blood stones, while air will let you forge those boosters which can be significant boon. Lots of different reasonable ways to spend your points. So, what else can I say? You can easily be immune to whatever your opponent likes to do while dropping whatever he really wishes you wouldn’t and at the end of the day Conan and all his friends have your back. What more could you want? |
Re: EA Ulm - What is best in life?
YAY!!! I don't feel bad now putting a bless on SWs. Great Job as always!
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Re: EA Ulm - Flying Conans of Doom
Great! I'm only a little concerned about you potentially not being the real Baalz, though. A Baalz who has always insisted on the usefulness of Stick and Stones + Strenght of Giants, wouldn't have missed Throwing Axes + Strenght of Giants, expecially recommending the spell early for sacreds ;)
Jokes aside, I suspect it's a precise choice but I think I don't get the reason for this? Maidens are of course great but I wouldn't underestimate even the shock effect of 50 strenghtened Axe Warriors, throwing doom before entering the carnage :) |
Re: EA Ulm - Flying Conans of Doom
The really cool think about sticks and stones is you get a double attack and are leveraging off either the strength of a gorilla or the numbers of cheap monkeys and have unlimited ammo. Axes don't have near the same synergy, particularly when your other choice is warrior maidens.
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Re: EA Ulm - Flying Conans of Doom
Undoubtly true, still I thought they would have got a "niche" mention from you :cool:
Could you provide an example Pretender? I know you usually don't like too much giving standardized suggestions of this but I'd love to get an idea. I was thinking on the line of a (CBM) W4 E9 S2 N4 B2 Imprisoned Master Druid with Dom5 Or3 Pr2 Cold3 Misf2 Mag1 for your strategy. Suggestions? :) |
Re: EA Ulm - Flying Conans of Doom
Not a bad choice at all. Another one I was looking at was the forge lord: Imprisoned 2f 4A 9E 3S 4N. Order 0 Production 2 Cold 3 Death 3 misfortune 1 magic 1. Your scales take a big hit, but then you're cranking out for less than half price air boosters, crystal shields, dwarven hammers, elemental staffs and rings of sorcery/wizardry. You can forge the hammer of the forge lord if you get there in time which puts you in the range of being able to afford 2 air boosters for lots of air smiths, and passing out rings of wizardry/elemental staffs for combat mages.
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Re: EA Ulm - Flying Conans of Doom
The reason why EA Ulm's not too feared is because as you mentioned, they have weak death and no astral access. So you can move around stealthy armies like Van/Hel (though Van arguably doesn't really stealth abuse) but you have no spectres nor stealthy astral mages protecting you from mind hunt zapping (Which will come into play around the same time as geared/buffed stealth raiders). Pre gearing/buffing, you're basically playing worse off version of Pan. That's not to say EA Ulm is unplayable, just very bleh.
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Re: EA Ulm - Flying Conans of Doom
Thanks for the answer and an interesting build, a bit more on the "walking on thin ice" side for me personally, as it's a lot on the mid-late game while I think Ulm is a bit too vulnerable early, expecially as here you're giving away both an SC Pretender and hordes of sacreds/maidens/axe throwers/cheap archers. Surely that enormous supply malus makes some sort of defence though, but won't stop early SC Pretenders/Eagle Kings/Niefels/Skelspammers.
@ Kissblade: as far as I understood Baalz's aiming, here, for a large amount of recruitable shamans and thugs, not for a few SCs, so the damage of getting mind hunted in such an environment is not the same. And surely there are few opponents that can field a S4 mage for every thug you send out every turn ;) |
Re: EA Ulm - Flying Conans of Doom
Why would you not have specters? You'll have plenty of D mages for site searching, several D2's who with a staff can summon specters.
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Re: EA Ulm - Flying Conans of Doom
Forgot they can get d2, I didn't see you mention buffering your raiders with some s spectres so I just assumed that's all they had. My mistake.
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Re: EA Ulm - Flying Conans of Doom
One thing I think you missed to cover is the extremely low magic resistance on EA Ulm troops. Yes, it is 8. One small solution to that problem could be to take an astral bless for your steel warriors so at least you have one unit that can stand up in the magic heavy early age. Combine that with earth for nice effect.
Also, one shouldn't look down on the axe throwers as they will give immense pain to anything when they are massed. It doesn't matter that they can't hit as you got masses of them, and you could easily throw wind guide (balancing the -4 to precision) with your warrior smiths. Another thing not to look down at is the broad sword/axe type warrior. Why? Because you have only length 1 weapons on all your other units (except iron and steel warrior). Short sword and axes will not have the upper hand against the very common short sword of early age, broad sword is length 2 however and will. All of them including iron (maul) and (great sword) steel warrior will have problem with the even more common spear. Only the shield maiden with her high defence and morale will have it easier when facing masses of spears, but with only a short sword, one attack and lower strength than the warriors she won't punch through heavy armour such as Abysias. In that case I would definitely go with the double wielding high strength and cheap axe throwing maniacs. Anything with no shield (no high parry) and medium to low defence (but maybe high protection) should get an axe to the head. Another thing to take notice to is the very high HP (for humans) that EA Ulm has on their units. For maidens 12, for warriors 13. That don't totally makes up for few shields, short weapons and medium to low protection but it comes close. I say recruit in numbers. 10 gold for 13 HP is pretty good when you meet EA spear wielding (3 damage) 10 strength humans or short bow archers, it means you survive with only 8 body protection (good prot 15 helmet though). |
Re: EA Ulm - Flying Conans of Doom
I'm sorry to hear the normal male ulmish warriors are still not an attractive choice after round of boosts in the last CB version. I'm really not sure what more to do with them, they already hit at nearly full attack with both axes and I don't think I can thematically make them cheaper than the basic women archers.
Also, there is the additional difficulty that the sword + axe guys are by nature so much worse than those with just axes (the sword being longer makes it harder to hit, and does less damage, and they lack throwing axes- the +2 defense does not make up for this). EDIT: Heh, interesting crosspost with Dedas. ;) |
Re: EA Ulm - Flying Conans of Doom
Thanks! EA Ulm is the one nation from my SP adventures that I dearly love but do terribly with against the AIs. It might be helpful to point out that the Steel Warriors are map move 1 which with the cap only recruitment and relatively light weight, most advice I've read so far says their effective use is limited to early game. The big earth bless still sounds like a good idea though for the shamans. Also you mention using a lot of skellispam but you only have a small chance (~3%) at getting a D2 shaman. Am I missing something or are boosters part of the plan?
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Re: EA Ulm - Flying Conans of Doom
But I like axes!!!
That is Forrest Warriors in combination with archers (The better armor is useful on friendly fire), or the cheap 10 gold axe warriors, that are stealthy and fast like the maidens... A quiz. What is that: "13 - 11 - 9 - ouch - arg - owww"? Correct, it's a Niefel Giant's defence dropping before the ugly 19 damage attacks finally cut him somewhat more efficient then the 16 damage attacks by the Steel Maidens. And that is after they have thrown their Axes ... Which are not sooo good sadly. 12 range and 6 effective precission is very close to a 90° cone in front of them and the usual situations for them will likely mean that you can't affort an air2 guy for them (don't forget that only 1/32 of your warrior smiths have that and you will want to recruit some Shamans, too. And the 1/32 A2 guys are also needed for Auspecs and some forging). But the point about Axe warriors is still, that they are so cheap and can inflict so much damage against big or defence-weak troops, they are the perfect calculated casualties. Abysia? Niefelheim? Agartha? These guys are the best choise. ... And as far as I see it, they are also the best choise against tramplers, althought in this case, I'd say they are the best of many bad choises. Do you have a better idea? 1 Arcos Chariot against what: 1.8 Steel Warriors 3.2 Steel Maidens 4.5 Axe Warriors 0.24 Shamans (minus whatever the equipment might be worth) Okay, the best might be some shamans /antlered shamans casting Earth Meld plus whatever troop you choose - but still what might that be? |
Re: EA Ulm - Flying Conans of Doom
@qm - btw, why did the basic woman archer go down to mapmovement1 if I can ask? :)
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Re: EA Ulm - Flying Conans of Doom
Oh, actually QM it didn't occur to me to re-evaluate the ulmish males, I made my call based on looking at them before. Looking at them now I actually would say the 10 gold Ulmish male is probably a better value for general use than the 14 gold steel maiden. Their combat values are probably roughly comparable (swapping damage for a lower attack), and they're both stealthy with map move 2 but she's 40% more costly. I also concede that the axe throwers will have their use, particularly with strength of giants.
@Pyg - yes, you'll be forging lots of boosters for all your mages and supplementing with gems. Combat mages are a central theme here so make sure to invest in them. |
Re: EA Ulm - Flying Conans of Doom
Well, it really depends ... Ermor will go through the Axe warriors like a hot knife through butter.
There, a few Shield Maidens to suck the Javelins and a Steel Maiden for each Principe is the way to go, I think. (Okay, your Steel Warriors with Earth + half Nature Bless are even better but for your non-capitol castles it should be the maidens.) |
Re: EA Ulm - Flying Conans of Doom
Would you mind providing some (very basic and indicative of course) research progression, to understand which early/mid/late objectives you have in mind for this strategy? 'Cuz I like to read about the tactics but I have some problems understanding in which order you'd achieve which boosters, evocs, buffs... :) (Of course I know some objectives can come before or later depending on what you're facing, so just a "line of thought" is needed :smirk: )
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Re: EA Ulm - Flying Conans of Doom
Is E9 really necessary though...
I mean clearly the cap only steel warriors with strat move 1 are going to become rather niche quickly, and while the boost to your shamen seems terrific, if you are going to be casting a buff do you really gain that much? As opposed to what you gain by taking E6 or E8 perhaps? I've been toying with a similar kind of bless for Tir na n'og, who has more commanders who definitely benefit from the E9 bless, but even so, I've found it to be seemingly easier to get around it in other ways, and free up enough design points to either go with even better scales, or a sleeping (or in some cases awake) pretender. I guess you can try feary trod to move things around, but it's still rather map dependent. |
Re: EA Ulm - Flying Conans of Doom
Oh no, the steel warriors don't come close to justifying the E9 blessing. What justifies it is the shamans who are not only your thugs but also the teeth in your armies. If you're already going to E8 it's not *that* much more to go to E9, which makes those thugs much tougher and makes your combat mages more likely than not to ignore a stray arrow even without ironskin. Since I suggest using your mages pretty aggressively (spamming charm from the front line, etc.) it seems a prudent investment. Stacking on the steel warriors is a very tasty bonus which has great synergy.
If I was taking a bless primarily for the steel warriors I'd probably look more at a water/blood blessing to maximize damage output since that's the niche you're using them for. |
Re: EA Ulm - Flying Conans of Doom
What's the lab size anyway?- Isn't that 30?
Another great guide. Curiously, I have an SP game that I started a few months ago the follows very similar lines :) The blessed SW and dirt cheap shaman thugs are way too much for the AI to handle, even on Faeron adventure, so I naturally lost interest. |
Re: EA Ulm - Flying Conans of Doom
Thank you very much for another excellent guide!!!
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As for low MR I'm currently thinking about actually taking Drain with this nations - but possibly it won't work due to lack of high-end mages who can overcome Drain penalty... :( On the other hand, you have access to all 3 research boosters and may forge them with discount. Plus, it's more thematic... ;) To pyg: When I tried them some time ago I always had 2 Death-2 Shamans on average by the end of year 2 - mid-year 3 iirc both in SP tests and in MP. Please don't forget that EA Ulm has cheap castles and all other Shamans you get are far from being useless (from each hundred you gain about 2 D2, 2 N2, 2 E3, 2 F2 - very useful all except N2 which you already have from Antlered ones - and all others can at least research or thug out)... To Maraxus on tramplers: Warrior maidens with their high-precision bows! In sufficient numbers they can make tramplers run even without buffs - and if numbers aren't sufficient they just fade back into woods... :evil: As for research, I'd say that with this nation the main theme would be a Construction. With Alteration and Enchantment as secondary obiections (Probably Ench 3-4 first for Strength of Giants). On the other hand, if you have Magic scale, you will probably need to study Thaumathurgy quite soon - you have no problem with research but need more gems to forge with. And on Pretender design - Forge Lord would be very thematic, but we are severely pressed to put additional paths on him. So I think that Rainbow or even Immobile would be better here. Actually, some time ago I've toyed with an idea of a Drain scale offset with an Awakened Sage... What would Your Baalziness say? |
Re: EA Ulm - Flying Conans of Doom
I have noticed.
But I think all of you fail to take into account the power of several attacks, especially against big units. A square can fit max 6 size 1 units, 3 size 2 units, 2 size 3 units and 1 size 4-6 unit. In battle one square attacks another square of units. A giant is size 4 and up meaning that he will get 6 attacks made on him by dual wielders as if attacked by 6 size 1 units. And as we all know any attacks made after the first one means -2 defence for the defending unit after each attack. That means a whooping -10 to defence compared to the -4, if faced by standard one attack size 3 units, on the last hit. Add high strength and axes (damage 7) + throwing (big targets easier to hit) and you have a unit made for kicking giant asses. Oh, and giants are not uncommon in EA. Thinking about this I come to the conclusion that this is probably what the Illwinter guys was thinking when designing EA Ulm. Axe maniacs against giants and warrior women against the more pathetic men of the other human nations, for example EA Ermor (it is even stated in their description). One fault of the CBM mod is trying to make the axe infantry the standard run to the mill unit for EA Ulm. The truth is that they have none - it all depends on what they are facing. Dual axes will never be cost effective against standard spear + shield infantry, that is what you have warrior maidens for. Maidens on the other hand will never be the best choice if facing giants as they have less strength, punier weapons, less HP, low protection, fewer attacks. The cost effective choice here is axe maniacs. So it is all about adapting to the opposition, as always in this game. Trying to normalize everything makes it rather plain and dull. On the other hand I love the CBM when it makes useful things with little to no use, in this case though it is wrong as I explained above. |
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As to where to focus your research, it really depends. There's a couple reasonable ways to go which you can to a certain extent play by ear depending on how a particular game is going. That said, *very* roughly here's how I look at your priorities. Priority 1: Alteration gives you a *lot* of bang for the buck without spending many gems - which are very tight initially. I already highlighted wooden warriors, but realize you can also pass out a few earth gems and drop a bunch of destructions which works...um...well with dual weapon warriors. You're also looking at wind guide for all those archers and iron skin for your mages and swarm for aggressive enemy pretenders. Priority 2: Site searching spells. Doesn't take too much research and your alteration buffed super-infantry should carry you nicely in the mean time Priority 3: Evocation (along with conj-3 for summon * power). you've got awesome evocations. Priority 4: Construction. It's all the way down here because 1) you have other stuff which is more *immediately* useful and 2) you have had time to stockpile some gems to make the most use out of it. I see what you're saying re: drain, I don't think I could stomach it on a nation I'm so heavily relying on mages for. You have to always be aware that sometimes trying to be efficient means you don't win the race so it's always a balancing act between finding a good value and making sure you're not bringing a knife to a gunfight because your gun is on layaway. Who cares if I spent 4 times as much as you did for my gun, I'm the only one with a gun in this fight. As to the forge lord, I certainly agree that he's expensive and there are other ways you can play it. However, how much is it worth to be able to forge air boosters for barely double digit gems (single digit if you can snag the forge lord hammer)? How much is it worth to be able to pass out several elemental staffs to your combat mages and some rings of sorcery to your relatively small death mages? It's very expensive, no doubt, but it can also really mean you're fighting at a whole other level if you can pull it off. There's a really, *really* big difference between fielding several A5 mages (2 boosters + crystal shield) and one guy you've squeezed up to A3. |
Re: EA Ulm - Flying Conans of Doom
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And thank you, Baalz, though I still can't quite stomach an idea of Death scale for this nation, especially as it continues ro recruit largish armies throughout the game, together with recruitable warrior mages instead of SCs... |
Re: EA Ulm - Flying Conans of Doom
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It just seems you give up a ton in opportunity cost, either for better scales, more diversity, sleeping as opposed to dormant, for 4 protection on units who are unlikely to be heavily used (steel) or targeted without prot buffs anyway(shamen). Now you may be right, and the benefit of not taking E9 doesn't really help that much, so you might as well do it. I think the question is really do you want slightly more survieable shamen, or just MORE shamen in the first place, because if you plow those extra points into order or growth (to get away from issues already raised about taking death) you will have an easier time putting up more castles and recruiting more shamen in the first place. Now I grant that I am not looking at the early game so much, and for some map types E9 may make alot more sense (small cramped maps with slow research). But for a 'normal' (yeah, whatever that is) set up with some room to set up, and normal research speed, it seems the benefit of taking better scales (or to a lesser extent better magic diversity on your pretender) out weighs the E9 bless. |
Re: EA Ulm - Flying Conans of Doom
Just to point out a useful attribute of the Antlered Shamans. When they're blessed, they actually get a pretty good regen, 3 usually, and 4 if they have an N random. I actually found this out when looking at ways to thug out Oreiads, and for them its even better, since they have 3N naturally, and all of them can cast mistform.
Just thought I'd throw that out there, even if most pr0s probably already know it. |
Re: EA Ulm - Flying Conans of Doom
What? Are you saying that innate Nature magic increases the amount of regeneration you get from a Nature bless?
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Re: EA Ulm - Flying Conans of Doom
Yep. It implies as much in pretender magic selection I think, but other than that it seems to be a closely guarded secret. :D
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Re: EA Ulm - Flying Conans of Doom
I thought innate Nature magic increases the amount of regeneration you get from everything (except innate regeneration).
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Re: EA Ulm - Flying Conans of Doom
Nope! Just increases maximum age and supply bonus. Also I think the "Personal Regeneration" spell is more powerful if you have a higher nature path (in the same manner as many other spells).
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Re: EA Ulm - Flying Conans of Doom
Yeah I got set straight on this one awhile back - the regen bonus from Nature paths only applies to regen spell/item based effects. Blessing and innate regen are not affected. :(
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Re: EA Ulm - Flying Conans of Doom
Well all I know is that when I put a shroud on my Oreiads and had a nature 4 bless they had regen of 4 hps. I doubt that their 11 or so hps would give them that from a 5% bless...
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Re: EA Ulm - Flying Conans of Doom
There is a lot of confusion on this point. Some definitive answer (and probably a sticky) would be really useful.
I believe that my prophet vampires regen has benefitted from nature. |
Re: EA Ulm - Flying Conans of Doom
well I would upload the .trn file from my Arco SP game with the Oreiads, but I don't have a program to compress the file.
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Re: EA Ulm - Flying Conans of Doom
Bless-induced (including shroud/prophet) regeneration is aided by nature paths, quite a boon with the Sidhe nations.
I can confirm that nature paths don't help natural regen, after testing with two Wyrm pretenders (one lacking nature paths, the other with nature 9). Regen buffing wyrms just became a new favourite, 120hp/round is an awesome sight. Even then my test Wyrm was still brutally murdered after being surrounded by barbarians :laugh: |
Re: EA Ulm - Flying Conans of Doom
I experimented with this, and found a Patala bug.
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Re: EA Ulm - Flying Conans of Doom
Whats the bug Edi?
In an earlier thread, I commented that blesses helped prophets etc - just not the gods themselves regen rate. At one time, I believe the fact that it did not help the Gods was considered a bug, and I remember seeing words to that effect perhaps in dom2. |
Re: EA Ulm - Flying Conans of Doom
Blesses not affecting pretender was intentional, but the effect of Nature on regeneration could be considered buggy. It works on regeneration in some cases, but not in nearly all cases. If Nature boosted the regeneration on Green Dragons and Great bulls and whatever else, regardless of the source, they could be actually useful. (Well, dragons already are, but not the Great Bulls and many other monsters). Ring of Regeneration on a N6-9 beast-god would be enough to give 100+ hp regen/turn.
If anyone else is interested, read the bug thread. Hit points don't regenerate when shape changes, basically. |
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