So what is this new game Demigod?
 

I just got an email from Stardock about it. Says it will be released in about a month. It looks kind of cool, but I can't figure out from the website what the heck type of game it is.

Re: So what is this new game Demigod?
 

real time tactical strategy RPG

http://www.demigodthegame.com/

Demigod info for the uninformed is the title of this thread
http://forums.demigodthegame.com/332105


Looks starcrafty to me with fantasy elements.

Re: So what is this new game Demigod?
 

Sounds like a Warcraft 3 clone, just from looking at the web site.

Re: So what is this new game Demigod?
 

It's a DoTA clone.

You people are so old.

Jazzepi

Re: So what is this new game Demigod?
 

From the website
Hmmm... this reminds me of SOMETHING, but I can't quite recall what...

Re: So what is this new game Demigod?
 

I believe it's clone of "Defense of the Ancients", a mod from Warcraft 3.

Re: So what is this new game Demigod?
 

Ahh, thanks. Never mind then. I can't play RTS anymore. I'm too old and senile.

Re: So what is this new game Demigod?
 

Yeah it looks rubbish to me.

Re: So what is this new game Demigod?
 

The screenshoots do look impressive, but it seems pretty shallow to me.

If it would turn out to have a great new combat system and gui I think you could skip over the fluff and have a blast in multiplayer. But I guess it´s more likely to be another repetitive rts.

Re: So what is this new game Demigod?
 

I looked at the so called demigods and found Kerrigan from Starcraft in string panties, the colossus from the Shadow of the Colossus, a german ubermensch with a colossal "snipercrossbow", a hydralisk from Starcraft, a chaos soldier from Warhammer... the list goes on and on.

Not saying it is bad in any way... the creators probably used their creativeness elsewhere.

*Takes another look*

Or perhaps not.

Re: So what is this new game Demigod?
 

The game is basically exactly like DoTA.

It's not a real time strategy game. You only control one unit. You don't build any buildings. The point is that you have 5 or so people on one side, and 5 or so on the other. There are "lanes" which are predetermined paths for the team creeps. Creeps have a lot of hitpoints, and do the majority of the "pushing" which is where you knock down enemy "towers" which are like defensive turrets.

The point of the game is to kill your opponents, which gives you gold and makes them lose gold, while "creeping" (killing the enemy creeps for gold and xp) more efficiently then the opposing team. That gives you sufficient power to kill their towers, and finally go into their base to kill their final structure.

It's actually quite fun, and extremely team oriented. Good reflexes and fast thinking are a must.

Jazzepi

Re: So what is this new game Demigod?
 

I caught wind of this about a month or so ago and it seemed rather appealing. I like real-time strategy but I don't like the building aspect of most RTS. It reduces most games to optimized build queues and micro skills when things heat up. That doesn't sound like a strategy game, but rather a tactical game.

What would make or break the game for me is the actual viability of different strategies. If the strategies end up being one tenth as diverse as Dominions, then I would be pleased to add it to my collection. Though I can easily see them falling short of such a goal.

I'll be holding my breath.

Re: So what is this new game Demigod?
 

I am surprised they won't get their *** sued off by such a blatant copyright infringement attempt. At least the game looks pretty though.

Re: So what is this new game Demigod?
 

What copyright would they be infringing, anyway?

The characters don't look all that similar to anything else to me, and the gameplay seems to be quite a ways from any other commercial product.

(The Warcraft III map it's clearly based off is A) fan-created and B) a blatant rip-off of a rip-off in the first place, not to mention stolen if I remember my community drama. While the long-forgotten creator of the original Starcraft Aeon-of-Strife-style map might pop out of the woodworks and sue them, I somehow doubt it.)

Re: So what is this new game Demigod?
 

They kinda stole the Dom concept with their 'demigods'.

Re: So what is this new game Demigod?
 

I found these after a quick glance:

I looked at the so called demigods and found Kerrigan from Starcraft in string panties, the colossus from the Shadow of the Colossus, a german ubermensch with a colossal "snipercrossbow", a hydralisk from Starcraft, a chaos soldier from Warhammer... the list goes on and on.

Re: So what is this new game Demigod?
 

Disclaimer:
Above posters are hopefully joking as copyright infringement doesn't work that way.

Gameplay isn't protected by copyright law (though it might be protected by a patent).

Copyright infringement is the illegal reproduction or the derivative work created from an original work.

Re: So what is this new game Demigod?
 

If they did not use the code, and they did not use the names AND likenesses (remember: these must be used together, and resemblance /= "likeness"), they did not infringe.

Re: So what is this new game Demigod?
 

I was a big fan/player of Age of 'x' games until age of mythology, and I can swear there are less strategics and tactics involved in those games than in the average sim something production.

It's all about logistics (but maybe one can argue this is a part of strategic science) and shorcuts and nervous clickings all around the place (and loads more of those two).

The most frustrating with RTS, to my mind, is the fact your damned troops never have a clue of what to do when they face an ennemy. The Sims of my sister are a tad more reactive. It's rather like being the captain of an army of lemings.

All in all, if you've never played a RTS, don't start, or go for those without building options/gestion. You'll waste less gaming time. By the time you really get the trick with more classical (age of...) RTS, you'll realise it's only pure reflex clicking.

Re: So what is this new game Demigod?
 

Agreed, your average RTS isn't strategy, it's about learning the most efficient build queues and clicking as accurately and rapidly as possibly.

The AI tends to be awful: if you aren't there to oversee something personally, it's pretty hopeless. For instance, many troops have a "trigger" distance to fight or do something only when attacked, so large groups of individuals can be picked off because they don't band together to fight back.

I can also forgive a lot of borrowing. There's barely one original idea in all of the Warhammer world, for instance, and your average fantasy novel has virtually nothing to distinguish itself from hundreds that have come before.

Re: So what is this new game Demigod?
 

Oh my god, another Lord Of Unforsaking Doom Of Apocalypse, and guess what ?

He wants to destroy the world.

Hopefully, a gentle band of hobbits are here to stop the Unrelenting Fate Of The World, and kill the Lord Of Uncompromising Darkness, by tossing it's ring (in which he put the vital part of his soul...No, don't ask why) in a lava pit.

It seems like such an original plot can be a healthy base for 995847621.5 novels, and 85476219.54 games, with slight adaptations. (hobbits=children, Lord of=God of, Fate=Destiny)

It's also true strategy games often have some pain to issue universes not based on our own world.
I concur Warhammer background is a desolation, but it at least offers a lot of diversity, as it sums up all what was done in other productions. So it at least have the palm of completeness. And I think Skavens are theirs, at least, so all hope is possible for a bright future. ah ah.

Re: So what is this new game Demigod?
 

Yeah, I liked them too, and can't play them anymore.
But I disagree that there was no strategy involved. For example you could focus on archers and cheap infantry and find a narrow spot where you could block the enemy's army of heavy infantry so that all your units could attack but most of his had to wait for the front row to die you could hold the line with a fraction of the investment.
My problem was that you could expand your economy to the point where losses didn't matter anymore and any complicated became unmanageable. I wouldn't even call that logistics it was just building.
If there were more limiting factors like you have only so much population that you can waste it would be more fun.

Re: So what is this new game Demigod?
 

I was maybe excessive, but anyway in most RTS there aren't that many viable strategies with a given faction. Sure there are some variations, from the tank spamming of C&C to the relatively diverse possibilities of an 'age of', but for an optimal gameplay you're most of the time narrowed into a specific strategy, which kills the pleasure when you discover 'iteration X' of the good old genre that'll have to do till developpers decide that shinny graphics aren't doing a great game all on their own.

It's sad to realize a domain as new as PC games is so reluctant to innovate. How many games on WW2 ? Come on, scenarists and creatives can't be that costly.

I recently played Dawn of War, but it was more to satisfy my teenage frustrations, of not being able to have the armies I dreamed of. It is a rather poor/too classical game, apart from that.

Re: So what is this new game Demigod?
 

It's not just that the companies are unwilling to innovate, it's that the customers often don't like it either. There's a certain amount of "comfort" playing the same old thing which is what an awful lot of people want. Innovation often actually doesn't sell.

As an example, most experienced wargamers know what a Gettysburg, Austerlitz, Battle of the Bulge or WW2 game is about: they're all resonant names. Make them a Second Battle of Franklin, Battle of Wagram, German Invasion of Crete or Seven Years War game and people just wonder what the hell they're getting and why it matters to them.

Re: So what is this new game Demigod?
 

Mass consumption destroys creativity ?

Let us hope web developpers/editors will be able to endure,multiply and cover the world with their offspring.

Re: So what is this new game Demigod?
 

I agree with you I just don't think that's something tied to RTS.
The problem is imho that simple and uncreative works have the best return ratio.
A good idea might still fail in practice, costs more to develop and can't be marketed as easily. Everyone knows what WW2 or "with Role Playing Elements" means but if you make something creative and succeed it might still be that you'd never get enough attention to make it worthwhile.
Maybe not mass consumption destroys creativity but the excessive competition of today. Damn I get to political now where's me beer?

Re: So what is this new game Demigod?
 

But..... the right-wing capitalists all say that market competition spurs creativity. It can't be that they were wrong all along..... could it? :shock:

Re: So what is this new game Demigod?
 

It reminds me of DotA and I have an irrational hatred of said map.

Re: So what is this new game Demigod?
 

No, they're probably right. It's just that along with every creative genius there are dozens of people who know a quick buck can be made from a close enough copy of the creative genius, and a public that's often happy with the same thing repeated until it goes out of fashion.

Re: So what is this new game Demigod?
 

I thought right-wing capitalists said "there's a sucker born every minute"?

Or perhaps the computer strategy games market isn't that competitive?

I think it could be argued that market competition spurs creativity in advertising rather than products in many cases.

Re: So what is this new game Demigod?
 

I don't think so. The concept of a 'pretender' arising to odhood has been used in many games.. from populous (the first I can think of) to black & white, to PBEM games to Steve Jackson's Angel Games iirc...

Re: So what is this new game Demigod?
 

I can only speak for myself but I buy one or two games a year, mostly when I get them cheap. That's less than the games released each weak. I don't know how much the production of the average game costs but I do get the feeling that there's way too much games than anyone can play or that they are sold often enough to make it really worthwhile for most.
Quality helps only if you can get the game to be noticed and played in the first place.

Re: So what is this new game Demigod?
 

There are way more games than anyone can play, which to me says that you don't need to sell a game to a very large percentage of consumers to make a profit.

I believe a mainstream game (multiformat release) is a decent commercial success if it sells a million copies, which isn't exactly much on a global scale. After all, there are perhaps 20 million PS3s (hopefully a conservative estimate) in consumer hands - if we assume that the other two console formats have similar global sales that's 60m consoles. Heaven knows how many game-capable PCs there are. But... it seems you can get a big success if not even 1 in 50 potential customers buys your game.

For a small dev team and a single-format game, I'd guess you don't need very many sales to break even, and thus I think there's a lack of competitive pressure.

Re: So what is this new game Demigod?
 

A big difference between many indy developers and major developers is that indies are doing it out of love and maybe a salary top-up, whereas majors need to make a living from it. Most indy developers I know make their games as a hobby, whilst holding down a day job (which may be also as a game programmer doing some contract work).

Apparently it takes about $5-10 million for professionals to produce the average game, and the developers get 20% of the retail price. Assume $50 for a copy, and shifting 1 million copies looks about right to break even at worst.

Re: So what is this new game Demigod?
 

That doesn't sound too unreasonable for an AAA title. If you're aiming lower, then I'd guess costs can drop noticeably. Is that the cost to the publishers, btw?

Re: So what is this new game Demigod?
 

Game developers won't get rich unless they make a huge seller such as Diablo or Halo or Max Payne or something. Publishers "feed" several game developing companies, so that they'll get at least few huge successes that will then be turned into franchises. Shrapnel's blog has few articles on niche games, retail and economy. They were an eye-opener when I read them some years ago. Most games don't make even, and most games get discounted FAST to make shelf-space for new titles. Creating a game can easily take over a year, and then it's sold for month for 50$, then another month for 20$, and then for 5$.

It probably isn't always that bad, but the image I have from the game-creation business is enough to make me want to seek work elsewhere. Unfortunately, I'm currently studying game-dev. Hopefully I can use the same skills to create tv-ads or something else, where at least your salary won't depend on the amount of sales generated by the ad (as calculated by the contractor's clerks). Not only that, but at least I wouldn't have to work on the same project for years at a time.

I'll have to mention that indy developers can make fantastic stuff, and at least some of them work full-time on their games, these days. They often start by trying to survive with their savings and trying to generate money via pre-order sales with open betas or alphas (Mount & Blade, Overgrowth), and/or with donations (Dwarf Fortress). They may try to get their games published by a publishing company, either via retail or online services such as Steam (or that Stardock alternative, and there are probably others as well).

There's also the firms that make smaller games for mobile phones, hand-held consoles or for the bigger consoles' online stores. They're probably somewhere between indy and big game developers, as far as the risks go. I don't know about profits. They might be a pretty big market, but the last console I had was the first Playstation so I have no idea.

Re: So what is this new game Demigod?
 

Endoperez:

We had some discussions in IRC about that, you should join sometimes :)

I think that most companies don't make profit because:
- they don't make games for players, but for bosses
- people that make that games would not play them
- they have no idea about the market
- they still live in 90s and don't know that Internet exists
- they don't care about customer service [well, EA somehow lives well with that]
- DRM
- wrong distribution system

And there are some more :) Anyway, I'm still months away from releasing my game, so I am not yet able to tell more about that earning part :)

Re: So what is this new game Demigod?
 

Degrees are versatile things, and the specialisation within a field doesn't necessarily mean that much when looking for jobs or further education: it's often more about emphasis rather than different skill sets when compared to related fields. For instance, a bachelor's degree in one area of the biomedical sciences would qualify you for a job in pretty much all of them.

* * *

It's not just the games industry. Apparently 90% of all acts signed to music labels lose money for their publisher, it's just the remaining 10% generally make much more than the 90% lose. It's often worth sticking with them because they never know when one of those 90% will release a song/album that will make them big. I imagine it's similar in movies and books, too.

Re: So what is this new game Demigod?
 

You're making a game Zeldor?

Re: So what is this new game Demigod?
 

Yeah. Get on IRC if you want to know more :)

Re: So what is this new game Demigod?
 

Last time I joined for a quick chat (about 19.00) I ended up blitzing. The blitz finished at 03.00. :D

Besides, these days I'm either at school using a computer (work, no IRC) or trying to do something useful like food, or modding. I just finished updating a mod, I should go to sleep, and I haven't eaten since lunch. :o

I'd like to read about your game here on the forums. I'll keep the invitation in mind, though.

Re: So what is this new game Demigod?
 

I will surely post smth here when beta is ready. Now there is not much to show, official website has nothing for public access :)

Re: So what is this new game Demigod?
 

Anyway, just found that article about indie game development on Slashdot, I think it's worth reading:

http://jeff-vogel.blogspot.com/2009/...es-i-sell.html

Re: So what is this new game Demigod?
 

I remember the creator of Exile/Avernum/Geneforge talking quite frankly about how indy developers actually have less chance to innovate because innovation is a risk they can't afford to take. He pointed to his rpgs - on the one hand you had an innovative rpg set in the british isles at a time when Romans were fighting the locals, he put a lot of thought and depth into the setting, made an entirely new system of magic, really did a lot of innovative work there, his best work he said. On the other hand you have the exile series which he saw as a far more conventional rpg of dragons and at least somewhat familiar fantasy game stuff, priests and wizards and whatnot. Of course Exile sold many many times more copies than the other game (which I can't even remember the name of now) and he actually got pretty bitter about it. He had gone off the beaten track and been punished for it. Where he had followed roughly what others had done and produced something he felt wasn't innovative or his best work, it had been his best seller and he had become known for it.

He concluded that people looking to the indy developer for innovation are misguided in the extreme and pointed to the kind of games indy developers usually make. Recycled and far from innovative war sims and puzzle games. Arcadey shooters. By the numbers rpgs.

Re: So what is this new game Demigod?
 

Platformers are also common, and there's little innovation left in 2d-sidescrollers.

I expect EITHER good/innovative gameplay OR lots of/quality content from indy games. Very few have both.

Cave Story is wonderful platformer whose plot I enjoyed way too much, but nothing new gameplay-wise. Mount & Blade is blah rpg with warring states, but the combat is cool. Dwarf Fortress has unsurpassed content, but no graphics and user interface. The list goes on.

Re: So what is this new game Demigod?
 

I'll be picking up demigods. I dont play dota anymore. The battletanks custom map is much more fun and I play on the warcraft3 europe server.

Been trying Dawn of War 2. Emphasis on trying as I've had nothing but issues with it. While I love the artwork and the animation I find the gameplay boring. It has to due with the retreating (x hotkey). There are very few fights or casualties because as soon as one side starts losing they bugout. I find this takes more micro than I find enjoyable. (Showing my age maybe).

Maybe DoW2 is to innovative for my tastes.

After Demigods the only upcoming titles I'm interested in are Starcraft 2, Diablo3, and resident evil 5 for the wii (if they release it). Oh yeah, punchout.

Speaking of innovation kudos for the wii. Super mario galaxy, lightsabre duels, and resident evil 4 are alot of fun. However there are very few games that take advantage of the wii's innovative control system. Even the tennis on the wii is alot of fun. I'd like to see more "active" controls for gaming.

That said dominions 3 is definately my favorite game atm.

Re: So what is this new game Demigod?
 

No. He's talking about planning to make one since over a year, though. :p ;)

Re: So what is this new game Demigod?
 

I'm hoping for something SupremeCommander(ish). Which is by the way a true treasure trove for a player who likes to customise everything (s)he sees and/or presses.