Noobs vs. Vets II: Mysterio's Revenge, EA, CBM, Game Over. Vets defeat Noobs.
 

Game conceded by the noob team at turn 31. Congratulations to the vet team.

And so it begins.

Mysterio, the only man who can withstand the gaze of a gorgon, happening upon the mortally wounded Mysteria who lay dying on the battlefield after the defeat of her veteran pretender god allies, vows to avenge her defeat and restore her to life. Using arcane magicks, Mysterio travels back into time to destroy the ancestors of the noob pretender gods and their armies to ensure that they will never be born and thereby prevent the death of his beloved wife and half sister Mysteria.

This is a team game and the sequel to the original Noobs vs. Vets.

This time around the focus will be on magic, longer term stategic planning, development, and accelerated research.

Here are the settings for the game:

Hosting via Llamaserver

Early Age
CBM 1.41c (or latest CBM)
Teams and map: 10 Noobs vs 5 Vets on Orania, fixed starts, 1 water nation required. Additional slots will be available to the last to join as alternate/standby players.
Treaties: A mutual global Non-Aggression Pact will be in effect for 10 turns from the start of the game. Both sides will refrain from initiating any hostile actions against each other until the beginning of turn # 11.
Hosting interval: Quickhost. First 9 @ 32 hours, turn 10 = 38 hours, 6 hours added every 10 turns thereafter with the maximum to be decided by consensus.

Magic Research: Easy.
Magic Site Frequency: 75.
Indie strength: 4.
Score Graphs: On.
Victory conditions: No vps/victory, annihilation of opposing team.
Delays: Liberal. Automatically granted provided I receive a PM in time and you post on the thread as well to let everyone know, and there are no major objections.

Teams:

Noobs
Septimius Severus - [Ermor]
Grudgebringer - [Fomoria]
Ossa - [Sauromatia]
Lavaere - [Lanka]
Illuminated One - [Mictlan]
viccio - [Abysia]
LumenPlacidum - [Agartha]
Darloth - [C'tis]
Stretch - [Vanhiem]
P3D - [T'ien Chi']

Unoptimized (standby/alternate)
mikh4il (standby/alternate)
majuva68 (standby/alternate)
Jachra (standy/alternate)

Noob Forum: Team Noob HQ

Vets
Lingchih - [Niefelheim]
TheDemon - [Caelum]
atul - [Atlantis]
Ironhawk - [Helheim]
Quantum_Mechani - [Hinnom]

Zeldor (standby/alternate)
namad (standby/alternate)

Vet Forum: Team Vet HQ

Backup Admin: rdonj

Alternates will be contacted/selected to fill vacanies during the game.

Thanks.
IMPERATORCAESARLVCIVSSEPTIVSSEVERVSPERTINAXAVGVSTV SPIVS

And don't miss the third and final installment in the critically acclaimed Noobs vs. Vets series, coming to a Dominions server near you: Twice as large as NvVII, more than 30+ players (including alternates), and massive battles. Reserve your spot today.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets II: Mysteria's Revenge. EA, CBM, Sign Up and Discussion.
 

I'd like to sign up for the noob team, if possible.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets II: Mysteria's Revenge. EA, CBM, Sign Up and Discussion.
 

Hold a spot for grudgebringer, I think he might still be interested.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets II: Mysteria's Revenge. EA, CBM, Sign Up and Discussion.
 

I'd like to join -and I'm ok with both teams. I've played quite a few games so far but hardly ever reached the endgame.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets II: Mysteria's Revenge. EA, CBM, Sign Up and Discussion.
 

I was hoping LA again, since I've finally getting used to Bogarus. MA I play Shinuyama, and haven't gotten around to a EA nation yet.
So what would be a good mage central nation for EA that I could play as

Re: Noobs vs. Vets II: Mysteria's Revenge. EA, CBM, Sign Up and Discussion.
 

Hmm, EA has an emphasis on magic already built into most of the nations, I'm not quite sure, perhaps T'ien chi, or Arco maybe. Ponder it whilst we finish getting signups and then you can choose.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets II: Mysteria's Revenge. EA, CBM, Sign Up and Discussion.
 

You or Grudgebringer (one of our returning alternates) would be fine on the noob side, provided there are no objections from the vet team before we start, that has been and will always be their right. Understandably so, given the odds and as very green noobs are prefered.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets II: Mysteria's Revenge. EA, CBM, Sign Up and Discussion.
 

Will do.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets II: Mysteria's Revenge. EA, CBM, Sign Up and Discussion.
 

I may be interested to join as Hinnom, but it depends on who else wants to join on vet side and if I'll have enough free time :)

Re: Noobs vs. Vets II: Mysteria's Revenge. EA, CBM, Sign Up and Discussion.
 

Well I do like the Three Kingdoms literature, so I'll try Tien Chi this game

Re: Noobs vs. Vets II: Mysteria's Revenge. EA, CBM, Sign Up and Discussion.
 

I'm tempted to play in the rematch but I think that the timing is way too slow. Especially for a game thats expected to last even longer than the original.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets II: Mysteria's Revenge. EA, CBM, Sign Up and Discussion.
 

I'm not playing but I would like to comment that I think the 2:1 odds is really too much against the vets. I think almost every matchup at these odds will result in the noobs winning esp. if they press their advantage early in the game. I think 3:2 would be more fair/exciting. In the last game many of the noobs didn't even have access to the vets and I suspect the game would have been even more lopsided if they had.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets II: Mysteria's Revenge. EA, CBM, Sign Up and Discussion.
 

This sounds like a lot of fun.

Can the teams work coordinated like individual team members taking roles (like frontline fighter or forge whore) or is the start to random to do that?
If so I'd like to join the noob team.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets II: Mysteria's Revenge. EA, CBM, Sign Up and Discussion.
 

I am already trying to keep Baalz from beheading me in WOTR.

I love these games however, my knowledge of Magic (or lack there of) would be a detriment to the team especially in a LARGE game.

Put me as an alternate and I will play if you need someone to round out the Noobs....Try and save Arco for me as its the one nation I DO know a little.:D

Re: Noobs vs. Vets II: Mysteria's Revenge. EA, CBM, Sign Up and Discussion.
 

OOPS, didn't see the part about not picking nations...:doh:

Re: Noobs vs. Vets II: Mysteria's Revenge. EA, CBM, Sign Up and Discussion.
 

In the previous game it didn't quite work out coordinatedly. We had fixed starts but did not know them until the start of the game and some people were given access to the enemy, and some were not. This one will be on a larger map, with fixed start locations also. It should allow everyone access though. So it would be more possible to play for the team by having some players forge and others take up other duties as theri primary responsibilities.

Pyg, in the previous game you probably would have been right about that. In this one I am not so sure. The vet team in the first game was very weak magically and did not have room to expand. In this one I think overall gold income will be much closer, plus the vet team will be able to make much better use of their magic. It's a pretty strong disadvantage they're at at the beginning, but if you bump their numbers up too much it will be almost impossible to give the noob team any chance of victory.

Grudgebringer: That's the point! This is a game intended for people who are not that practiced at the game. The point is to learn by watching all the horrifying things the vet team comes up with to do to you. Think of it as a crash course in magic 101 ;)

Re: Noobs vs. Vets II: Mysteria's Revenge. EA, CBM, Sign Up and Discussion.
 

I'm afraid I won't be playing if the odds are 2 to 1 again. We have already proved that is untenable. I will play if, as Pyg suggest, the teams are instead 3:2.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets II: Mysteria's Revenge. EA, CBM, Sign Up and Discussion.
 

Oh well, I'm not playing anyway so I don't care that much about team sizes :D

Re: Noobs vs. Vets II: Mysteria's Revenge. EA, CBM, Sign Up and Discussion.
 

So, I'm on the fence about playing again, I thought the last one was lots of fun, but that was largely due to the small map.

Would be possible to find some kind of compromise map? Last time was around 7 provs per player, the current selections are I think around 20. Maybe something like 14 per player?

Also, I disagree about reducing the odds, I think 2 vs 1 is fine, especially on a bigger map than last time.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets II: Mysteria's Revenge. EA, CBM, Sign Up and Discussion.
 

If the map is large, giving us some time to build up an advantage, 2:1 is probably still ok. 15+ provs / player might be ok, but we should err on the side of caution given our last experience. My main worry being that even if a nation has 15 provs allocated when you think about laying out those provs radially, you might have as little as 2-3 provs b/w your cap and the enemy front. Thats not a long distance for an early rush, still.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets II: Mysteria's Revenge. EA, CBM, Sign Up and Discussion.
 

I'm interesting to play with noobs... i will Try EA abissya

Re: Noobs vs. Vets II: Mysteria's Revenge. EA, CBM, Sign Up and Discussion.
 

your settings don't seem to agree with your description about the game....


massive gem incomes and easy research do not make for a long strategic game but for a shorter game....


anyways I'd be willing to play for either team.

I've been in 4 PBEM games total including the one I am in now
but i'm also on IRC like 8hours a day 5-7days a week...

in all honesty i probably am slightly too good to be a noob and slightly too bad to be a vet but if you wanna play the bigger map or get desperate filling slots.. or whatever.....


also what's with the non-standard timing? don't most games play 24h for the first 10-20turns 48h for the next 10-30turns and then 72h for turns above like 40or50?

the first dozen turns really should only take 15minutes each... assuming you practice a bit in single player against the independents the multiplayer game is very simple until the first war breaks out?

Re: Noobs vs. Vets II: Mysteria's Revenge. EA, CBM, Sign Up and Discussion.
 

I think that such timing is quite good. Team game is very different from normal and even in simple team game players NEED to constantly discuss and make decisions together. If they want to be successful, of course. 6 hours per 10 turns is a bit little though, IMHO. 8 might be better.
Also, from what I read at the previous game topic, it was mainly cooperation, discussion and coordination what won that game. Smaller team will always be a subject to rush and without proper discussions when each nation is left on its own it has no chance at all. Each arrow on the map may be crucial and so is each soldier's life. It is not nearly an exaggeration.
I also think that vets should be given some advantages (for example, more capital pop or selecting nations first) have a chance to be successful.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets II: Mysteria's Revenge. EA, CBM, Sign Up and Discussion.
 

Thanks for the invitation to be a vet! I won't take you up on the offer because I'm writing up my PhD thesis at the moment (and will be for the next few months), so I'm not starting any games. When I finally finish though, I'll definitely be signing up for some!

Re: Noobs vs. Vets II: Mysteria's Revenge. EA, CBM, Sign Up and Discussion.
 

Yeah, that's what I mean. If I knew my starting location and that I was protected by other players I'd love to take a supportive role. Given the huge impact this would have on overall strategies this would really make a kind of new game.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets II: Mysteria's Revenge. EA, CBM, Sign Up and Discussion.
 

yeah i think maybe 3:2 would be more fun. is there a way to make fixed start locations, but who starts at those locations random. if so I say we go with that for the game.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets II: Mysteria's Revenge. EA, CBM, Sign Up and Discussion.
 

Well, I suppose I should play, since the game is named after my previous Pretender, but something has to change. Either 3:2 player ratio, or either of the suggestions by QM and IH. And this is early age, so it's a whole different ballpark for Pan, though I could still use the same Gorgon build.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets II: Mysteria's Revenge. EA, CBM, Sign Up and Discussion.
 

Yes you should play Lingchih, otherwise I'll have to change the subtitle and this way provides a continuum from the last. Mysteria must get what is coming to her!

I will grant you and all the vets first choice of nations to give you an additional advantage. This should ease your feelings regarding 2:1, also some vets seem not to have an issue with it. Remember, your knowledge of the magic system and the time to use it will certainly level the playing field.

I do not wish to repeat the rush type of game in cramped quarters with no development that contributed to the vets loss last time. I do not want a game that is going to end 20 turns in.

I will see to it, that there is quite some distance between both camps to prevent any early hostilities. I want everyone to have room to spread and time to research.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets II: Mysteria's Revenge. EA, CBM, Sign Up and Discussion.
 

As I'm a noob and not experienced with all of the magic system beyond level 4 or so, tell me why you believe this will shorten the game? especially when both teams have equal access?

Yes, there are global enchants and spells to wreak havoc in distant provinces, but is this really a concern with regard to game shortening?. In the previous game, noobs learned primarily battle tactics in a rather frenzied environment, with almost no experience towards spell research and use. This game is meant to quickly allow noob players access to the spell system and give them a chance to familiarize themselves with it and indeed use it against the vets.

With regard to hosting interval:

As ano pointed out, we are using a non standard hosting interval larglely to allow time for discussion among team members, and also to accomodate my sometimes busy schedule and those of others (selfish, I know, but what can I say). Turn completion time has nothing to do with it. As a matter of fact, I think we might begin at 32 rather than 30.


I'll put you down as a standby for the noob team right now.
Should you end up in the starting roster, the vets will have final say as to whether you are "Too good".

Re: Noobs vs. Vets II: Mysteria's Revenge. EA, CBM, Sign Up and Discussion.
 

QM, some players saw action and some did not, I was forced to place 15 players on a tiny map, largely attempting to accomodate yourself and the vets. I think the prov/player ratio is fine and will tend toward what I had originally intended, a longer playing game.

I was upset with the last game, because it was totatly not what I wanted, but went along for everyone else's sake. I am willing to compromise, though, if there is absolutely no other alternative. I urge you, and the any other vets on the fence, to go ahead and join us, and not fret about the prov/player ratio.

Btw: do we have a new version of CBM compatible with the latest update to Dominions?

Re: Noobs vs. Vets II: Mysteria's Revenge. EA, CBM, Sign Up and Discussion.
 

Your in, though hold off on nation selection for right now please, with the exception of returning alternates and vets. Thanks

Re: Noobs vs. Vets II: Mysteria's Revenge. EA, CBM, Sign Up and Discussion.
 

I'd like to try again on the noobs side, please.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets II: Mysteria's Revenge. EA, CBM, Sign Up and Discussion.
 

I appreciate you went with the flow last game, and for what it's worth I thought it worked great with the small map. I mean, yes, it was over fast but it was lots of fun and I think at worst the smaller map called for a less extreme noob to vet ratio. The one problem is as you say some nations not making it to the front lines, but that's more function of the particular map than the size.

Current CB should work with the newest patch, there is also a good chance I'll release a new version before this game starts.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets II: Mysteria's Revenge. EA, CBM, Sign Up and Discussion.
 

the more research the faster players can die... if you want to make the game longer you make the research more difficult.... maybe we can get someone like ironhawk or QM to comment on this but i am almost totally certain that your change to settings will only serve to decrease the total number of turns played before the game is over


i'm not saying thats a bad thing... i'm just saying it seems like you can't make up your mind between a high magic game and a long drawn out game... and it'd only be fair to change the description to match the settings

Re: Noobs vs. Vets II: Mysteria's Revenge. EA, CBM, Sign Up and Discussion.
 

Using easy research does generally speed the game up. However, in this case using easy research is the right thing to do since the intent is to have the noobs gain experience by exposure to mid/late game magic. This setting will insure that the vets bring out the tricks sooner and are more resistant to rushing.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets II: Mysteria's Revenge. EA, CBM, Sign Up and Discussion.
 

Generally, I'd agree, we'd also increase pd as well to drawn out the game, and increase the prov/player ratio. But as Ironhawk has said the intent in this game is to quickly familiarize the noobs with the magic system. Will it shorten the game, perhaps, particularly for the noob team who don't know how to use it effectively, but I think we can live with it. I want a long game, but not forever. Also, there are different dynamics in a team game.

Since I've never played with easy research, exactly how easy is easy? If you've got a unit researching at 12 per turn in normal, does this mean, they now research at 24 in easy, or 6 in hard?
If it turns out that it is too quick like 4 or 8 times normal, then that might be a concern.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets II: Mysteria's Revenge. EA, CBM, Sign Up and Discussion.
 

so then the description should say something like...

"accelerated magic development, for earlier use of advanced tactics"

the tactics are coming online earlier... not being prolonged... that is an honorable and fine goal.. it's just not what the sentence he used said... or at least if thats what it meant i didn't understand myself

Re: Noobs vs. Vets II: Mysteria's Revenge. EA, CBM, Sign Up and Discussion.
 

Sign me up as a vet.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets II: Mysteria's Revenge. EA, CBM, Sign Up and Discussion.
 

easy research, ain't that 20 points for level 1 magic. this is going to be fun. should be fun as I normally play very difficult in my SP games

Re: Noobs vs. Vets II: Mysteria's Revenge. EA, CBM, Sign Up and Discussion.
 

If there's room I'll sign in.

Vet side, if they take me.

We get to pick nations already? Sauromatia?

And qm has a point about 20 provs per player being a LOT, but it's up to admin of course.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets II: Mysteria's Revenge. EA, CBM, Sign Up and Discussion.
 

I kind of agree on the provs/player being high. For me a "high" provs per player is 15. 20 is on the extreme side. With that and double speed research and first dibs on nations, it seems the vets hold all the cards this time. Of course, that might be the point, I dunno. Oh and if I get to call a nation, I'd like Caelum, pending a team discussion of course.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets II: Mysteria's Revenge. EA, CBM, Sign Up and Discussion.
 

It is high and worth discussing. However keep in mind that this game will effectively be a duel. So its not impossible that some indy provs will just get overlooked. Happened even in the last game with a smaller map and way less provs/player just because the fighting was so intense.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets II: Mysteria's Revenge. EA, CBM, Sign Up and Discussion.
 

so rumor has it the noob team has a top secret forum for discussing top secret plans?

if this is true i'd like to get into it, asap...

i figure if QM or maybe ironhawk or whomever will authorize me joining the noob team that would serve? or he can invite me to play on his team instead, or he can suggest i don't play the game at all... i'd understand any of the options ... but whichever one it is i'd like to join the top secret wiki/forum for that particular team ... an open wiki might be best because it can allow for good organization of information AND theres also sections for discussions included? ...maybe i'm rambling, eh?

Re: Noobs vs. Vets II: Mysteria's Revenge. EA, CBM, Sign Up and Discussion.
 

http://teamnoob.forumotion.net/

All the discussion from the last game was "archived", and there's a hidden forum on there that only people in a user group can see, currently there's nothing in it though. It will be used again to organize the game unless people decide to do things differently.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets II: Mysteria's Revenge. EA, CBM, Sign Up and Discussion.
 

I haven't actually joined so I guess I don't really have a vote, but I'm ok with namad on the noob team.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets II: Mysteria's Revenge. EA, CBM, Sign Up and Discussion.
 

don't worry QM i'll sign up on your behalf!

uhm guys... the entire forum is public... if your gonna discuss top secret stuff you should make the forum unreadable except to registered members and you should have a moderator only accept registrations from the team members....


wanna look into a wiki?

Re: Noobs vs. Vets II: Mysteria's Revenge. EA, CBM, Sign Up and Discussion.
 

thats because its been archived so anyone can see it. of course once the new game starts, only those in the group will see whats happening.

wonder if rdonj, will allow a vet forumgroup. that way when a game finishes both sides will have an archive of what they did.

also can't wait until a couple more games down the line. I might be good enough to be on the vets side facing the Noobish Horde

Re: Noobs vs. Vets II: Mysteria's Revenge. EA, CBM, Sign Up and Discussion.
 

Yeah, a vet forum group would be most helpful. I guess I could set one up, or maybe rdonj could do it for me? Would be much better than the occasional email we sent each other last game.

That is, if we ever get any vets to sign up. They're not exactly breaking down the doors to get into this one.

Oh, and namad, I've played with you. I don't consider you a noob. I'm not vetoing you, but if you play on the noob team, I would consider you a ringer.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets II: Mysteria's Revenge. EA, CBM, Sign Up and Discussion.
 

no, i'll vouch for his nub status ;)

ok, him and ossa are probably 1.5 nubs... should be x vets vs 2x-1 nubs :)

Let me address the issue of prov/player ratio.

20 prov/player is not bad, me and Lingchi are in a game where there's 60+ provinces per player, in a FFA game, 4 players on a large map,so this shouldn't be a major concern. As this is a team game, you can certainly coordinate with your team members if you wish to take on a more or less provinces, or play a supporting role, or whatever you like. This is certainly not micromanagment hell.

With regard to map choice:

I have purposely limited map selection to only those maps included in the Dom3 distro to keep it simple for noobs. Orania (200+) , and the orginal Glory (400+) are the only maps large enough.

Lingchih, the vets should definately have a forum, get with rdonj, if you need assistance in setting it up. Forumnation, is a good choice. PM or post the website address and I'll stick it to the main page.

Let me reiterate, I want only green noobs on the noob team. Namad, perhaps your more qualified for the vet team, or at least as a standby, but if the vets don't veto you your fine on the noob team if there are no more really green noobs signed up.

QM and Ironhawk, lets have a decision soon, so I can get these teams organized properly and this game underway.

Easy research appears to be 20 for level 1 as opposed to 40 in normal, so that is effectively twice as easy, that is fine for our purposes.