CBM Pretenders
 

There was a recent post in the CBM thread about the Lord of the Gates pretender being overpowered. I figured that if it hadn't been used much then it must not be that good. So I decided to give it a shot in SP and see how it worked out. To my surprise, it actually worked QUITE well as a variation on the usual early game SC.

My question to you is, have you really tried the other pretender chassis that CBM buffs, and have you ever been surprised by your success?

Also, any advice for using your unorthodox pretender design would be great, maybe we can expand the variability of new games.

I took my LotG with MA C'tis, Dom 9, E4 D5, O3 S2 H3 D1 L3 M1. The spawning shades allow him to expand w/out equipment from turn two, and he can easily take just about any indy province with less than 60 defenders by turn 4 as he gains more and more shades. Later on you can equip him and use him as an SC, and his shades provide great arrow decoys and lance absorbers.

Re: CBM Pretenders
 

i played him in several blitzes, never worked out for me that well...
maybe im just doing stuff wrong

Re: CBM Pretenders
 

I didn't try making Lord of War and Celestial General into SCs, but the amount of infantry they generate made it much easier to expand using archer-armies. You don't need to "waste" resources for the resource-intensive troops since you get those for free.

Baalz's posts about the Forge Lord in his guide for MA Agartha might also count. At least it surprised some people reading the guide. Blood Stones for 3 blood saves each, Rings of Wizardry for 12 pearls each... Innate 50% forge bonus!

Re: CBM Pretenders
 

Be aware that the lord of the gates will likely eventually (or quickly) get diseased (as would any pretender that is not disease immune) under MA C'tis dominion. But yes, I quite like the freespawn pretenders with CBM, a pretty cool twist on having an awake SC.

Re: CBM Pretenders
 

Well I would think that he would be diseased by now since he's been in my dominion since turn 1. Maybe he's immune?

Re: CBM Pretenders
 

Nope, you're just getting lucky.

Re: CBM Pretenders
 

I think it's based on magic resistance or some other value all pretenders are good in. It usually takes a long time before the disease kicks in.

Re: CBM Pretenders
 

I dunno, I had a Mother of Rivers get diseased on like turn 3 of an SP game when I forgot about the dominion effect. I wonder if there's any way to make them immune? What if you give them a ring of poison resist?

Re: CBM Pretenders
 

i think disease is just a percent chance based on dominion, and the LotG is not immune. So he has just been lucky :)
Celestial General is a fine SC chassis. Earth and Air, fairly good stats; free armor if needed.

Re: CBM Pretenders
 

I found the Celestial General to be great with Jomon for producing early arrow catchers.

Re: CBM Pretenders
 

Pretty sure that it's not MR dependent. That from some SP games, but also in a current MP I am trying to invade MA C'tis, and even 18 MR mages in just 5 enemy dominion tend to very rapidly get diseased.

Honestly I think the mechanic is a bit harsh, this is the most needlessly attrition-istic invasion I've ever led (and I am a master at pissing troops away already ;)).

Re: CBM Pretenders
 

Well it can make diplomacy harder for C'tis, if you take a high dominion to maximize the income bonus, and it severely hinders your ability to diversify your magic.

Re: CBM Pretenders
 

I disagree.

You can take a E4D5 awake PoD with great scales. With that you have full access to S/D/E/W/N which is pretty damn good. You can even get air if you summon into a faerie queen. Sure she gets diseased, but throw a ring of regen on her to keep her around.

Jazzepi

Re: CBM Pretenders
 

I'm not going to argue that there aren't downsides. Just saying that someone with no real experience in the game, and no plan to win a war, can effectively ruin almost anyone's chances of victory, just by dragging them into a war. They force you to invade them, and your forces succumb to disease in just a couple of months. Basically everything you send is going to die, so if they have any real fight in them at all, you're going to have to sacrifice things that are irreplaceable, perhaps thugs and high level mages that you would absolutely not expect to lose ordinarily, if you were winning the war.

It's a bit off topic, but meh. :p

I like the auto-summoning pretenders, though I think the Mother of Monsters could maybe use a higher spawn rate, and maybe the Lord/Lady of Serpents could be toned down slightly.

Re: CBM Pretenders
 

I'm sure you know this already Jim. but you can use undead or demons or inanimates, they don't get affected by disease.

And in a game I played with Cleveland, somehow he managed to sneak Wardens into every single province I owned without too many of them getting diseased -- talk to him! :)

C'tis PD is teh suck, they get a pile of weak morale 7 militia (8 in C'tis dominion) that die easily, causing the not-as-terrible City Guard to rout. You can Send Lesser Horror, Arouse Hunger, Horde from Hell, etc, maybe even Call of Winds, to take his PD-only provinces.

Depends on the nation you are playing, but usually there's an answer.

Re: CBM Pretenders
 

Well my LotG finally did get disease, so scratch him off the list of those who are safe. It seems though that it could be interesting to go with him or any other non-immune chassis and make a beeline for GOH. Definitely for those who like to live dangerously though.

What does make a pretender "disease immune" though? Is it swamp survival? I know undead are effectively, if not technically immune to disease, but what exactly is the criteria?

Re: CBM Pretenders
 

:D

A combination of luck and stupidity.

Re: CBM Pretenders
 

Either of "cold blooded" or "swamp survival" is sufficient to avoid miasma disease.

Any of "lifeless", "undead" or "demon" is sufficient to avoid additional afflictions or HP loss from being diseased.

Immortal units or units with recuperation will also have a chance to automatically heal the disease affliction.

Re: CBM Pretenders
 

which gives c'tis a choice of 17 immune chassis, at least in CBM; 18 w/ the phoenix.

Re: CBM Pretenders
 

I've invaded C'tis and lost only one W3 mage and some chaff troops to disease. Sometimes the healing ability of T'ien C'hi really pays off.

I had two invading armies (both about 200-300 troops and 12-15 mages). Here's some stuff I learned:

1) Start the healing immediately once your troops start getting diseased. If the unit has gained 2-3 afflictions from Disease already, he's a goner. That's because your healers will usually heal the secondary afflictions, not the disease itself. Sieges are a good way to get a break to heal your troops.

2) You need *a lot* healers. Both of my afromentioned armies had 1 Apothecary (heal 20) to do healing. Not even nearly enough. But in both armies, 3-4 Alchemists of the Five Elements (heal 30) did the trick.

Re: CBM Pretenders
 

Agreed Lord/Lady of Serpents can be very powerful as well. Along with recruitables you can quickly have a large ustoppable serpent army!!!