WW2 German Mod
 

Currently I am making a WW2 German mod.
Taking advantage of the fact that the West German OOB is almost completely empty between May 1949 and October 1954 and there are plenty of WW2 german icons available in SPMBT I plan to make a mod making WW2 german units available in that timeframe.
It will contain all the AFVs for which there are icons available
such as Panther, Jagdpanther, Panzer IIIs and IVs, Jagdpanzer IV, Stug III and IV, Hetzer, Nashorn etc. (essentially nearly all mid-late war armor, except Tiger and some exotic variants) and a basic complement of Wermacht infantry and artillery units, as well as some Luftwaffe stuff if possible.
Just to let you know.

Re: WW2 German Mod
 

Excellent idea. Good for those what if scenario's going out past 1946.

Re: WW2 German Mod
 

it would be cool to strafe the wermacht with sabres and fagots, are you going to add anything to the other powers? if the war had continued several projects would have been completed, like the flying pancake

Re: WW2 German Mod
 

If the war had continued, then Berlin would have had delivery of one bucket of instant sunshine. The dose would have been repeated as required till someone gave up. Japan got two and caved.

All the gee-whiz Nazi waste-of-time Wunder-Waffen projects would have been of no consequence put beside that small fact. (Even if that bunch of idiots could have managed to actually produce some of them in the first place.)

Andy

Re: WW2 German Mod
 

It'd be nice to see say Super Pershing... Nuclear-armed B-36 is out of the scope of the game I'm afraid ;)

Re: WW2 German Mod
 

No it is not. Just pull the plug on the PC when it appears over the battlefield...

Andy

Re: WW2 German Mod
 

The entire reason winSPWW2 extends 16 months past August 1945 is so these type of "what- if" fantasy's can be played out.


Don

Re: WW2 German Mod
 

Read one story one time, when they decided to use the Me 262 as afigther, and not as a figtherbomber. Some early sucsess, and then they were grounded for lack of fuel, and their runways got bombed at nigth.

The war was prolonged so the story ended with "Dawn came early to Berlin that day".

Re: WW2 German Mod
 

Imagine this scenario because had the war in Europe gone on to August 1945 there is NO doubt it would have ended this way

-- Imagine the Seelow heights battles had been delayed to the end of July and Russian forces had not yet entered Berlin. One morning Berlin is incenerated in a blinding light in full view of 1 million Russian ( and German ) troops and suddenly the war is over

It's one thing to hear about it happening on a distant island. Quite another to have it happen in front of a million front line troops many of whom are expecting to die in the final assualt.

Methinks the postwar might have been quite a bit different

Don

Re: WW2 German Mod
 

Made me giggle

For those of you who want to nuke a "friend" heres a little app just type his address into google maps & select your bomb
All done "In the best possible taste" of course
http://www.carloslabs.com/node/16

Re: WW2 German Mod
 

Similar (if not same) scenario was in "Hitler's Options" compiled from various authors (Each one "option") by Macksey. One "Option" was "no delays in 262". IIRC the conclusion was that even if 262 threatened bombers it would just limit raids into Germany, not stop them (there will be a higher escorts:bomber ratio) and B-29 would be diverted to Europe, posing much more serious problem to 262 with its higher speed and altitude, plus heavier armament (no mentions of maneuvrability, but IIRC Tibbets demonstrated that at 29 op altitude he can out-maneuvre a pair of P-47s).
IIRC that scenario didn't even end with nuke, the war was protracted only by a month or so... No 262 is going to stop the Red Army, all it would manage would be forcing a different pattern in the air attrittion war in the West and after initial shock it would subside to CAP over its bases.

Re: WW2 German Mod
 

No. I am just doing what I described: all the mid/late (and some early) war german AFVs for which the icons are already available, plus a basic complement of Heer infantry and artillery units for support (and some planes as well).
I might include a Panther F or II using an existing icon but that would be it as far as experimental units. Also several of the late war units will get a substantial load of APCRs but with the same stats of the WW2 rounds (Pzgr 40/43 etc.) to give them a needed boost against 50's AFVs.
All units will be available between May 1949 and October 1955. Before May 1949 the german OOB isn't available and after October 1955 the Bundeswehr units and formations come online, so it would be a bit messy to go beyond that date.

Clearly the WW2 game is better suited for "longer WW2" scenarios, but you do not have the modern toys to play as Abrams vs Jagdapanthers in that.
Plus it is not very time/effort intensive for me to make (the
WW2 games are readily available as references for stats formations etc.) is fun and there is some demand for it.

Note that I cannot make picklists at this time, so you will have to pick the forces for the AI.

Re: WW2 German Mod
 

Marcello, if this is what you want to do and think it's fun then go right ahead and have fun but .

:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

Iraqi T-55's have a better chance.

Have fun


Don

Re: WW2 German Mod
 

Please, don't be so serious;). In fact idea is fun (at least my opinion). It would be nice to see whole timeline 1946-200? battles with modern equipment vs. (nazi?) Germany. Result: one sided slaugter? Ok, it could be surely in "real world" but what if german scientists/developers had possibilities to develop German arsenal (not only nukes) better than they were in reality until May 1945...

Re: WW2 German Mod
 

Its easy to do if time dependant but why not just do in WW2 assume timeline from mid 45 every month = 3 or 6 months & build OOBs based on that sides strengths or paths taken so advances.
Make the assumption nukes are a failed project but everything else develops faster driven by the continued war & supply building is not a problem.

Germany better guns firecontrol range finder possibly rocket arty or weapons first to invent poor quality ATGMs
US Giros vision aids armour as they dont like losing men, also always have worst guns best airforce, the attack helo. Big vehicles profile seems disregarded. Claymore type weapon for vehicle infantry defence.
Russia speed & small size flame weapons. Big guns with low ammo loads
Brits Advanced armour specialist vehicles the tank slow pokes armoured cars, decent guns (probably should have giros & vision instead of US as US seemed to neglect after the war). Radar AAguns

Giving them all national characteristics so US could take current models up armour (losing speed till improve power plant) improve giros. They would improve in other areas just not as quickly.
Troops similar RPGs semiauto weapons

Re: WW2 German Mod
 

Then you have to have the Nazis supplied with oil. This was something they just had very little of (converting coal to petrol was very inefficient). Once Romania was out of the Axis, no natural petroleum products.

By 1945, the gee-wizz ME262 were being towed out to the runway by horse transport due to severe fuel shortages.

So by all means have your mythical uber-panzers, about 2-4 per brigade fielded able to run due to fuel shortages, the remainder as movement 0 "tin pillboxes" presumably dragged into place the day before by horse teams. No close air support. Nothing much that needs rubber (e,g has tyres). And no trucks, motor cycles or half-tracks, just have horses and carts for the arty transport. Grunts walk.

Andy

Re: WW2 German Mod
 

I did say ignoring supply just putting ideas forward if they are considering doing because by the end of the war the Allies had nearly caught up. So if they are going to stand a chance of surviving even to the 50s they need upgrading Centurion comes to mind might be slow but good FC & decent armour Panther vs possibly MkIV !!!!
ISU 4? might be a problem to certainly caused me a few.

Re: WW2 German Mod
 

As I recall there was a wood burning generator setup available at least for the Panzer IV (used for crews training and such).
Coal powder was at least considered as jet fuel. That's what desperation will do to you.

Re: WW2 German Mod
 

Figuring out what would actually have been produced under which circumstances would be an headache of massive proportions. In real life IIRC by 1940 or so the germans were hoping to end the war by 1942 with 50mm gun Pz III as the mainstay of the panzer divisions and some short 75mm gun Pz IV and Stug III for support.
A 45 tons Tiger lite like tank was being developed as a future replacement. That was pretty much it. Nobody was dreaming about Jagdapanthers, King Tigers etc.

Re: WW2 German Mod
 

And where are the Germans going to get more chrome? They already bought all Turkey was producing, and it wasn't enough. So with jet engines you have a choice. You chrome the insides of the engines and short your ground forces. Your gun barrels wear out faster. Then the Sovs eat you alive on the ground. Or you build all your shiny new ground toys, and short your jets. Without chrome, the life span of a Jumo Junkers OO4 engine is 45 hours, not long enough to be useful.

And this is speculation, but I wonder how many of the paper only projects were just something to keep designers busy.

troopie

Re: WW2 German Mod
 

Dunno about that. Chromium is used to extend barrel life, which is obviously a bonus in peacetime when weapons have to last as long as possible to cope with training needs without needing frequent expensive replacements. But wartime attrition make that less of an issue: how long was the average life of a PAK gun or a Hetzer at the front before being destroyed anyway ?
I am not saying that it weasn't a factor but no worse than Tungsten shortage (which basically made high end AP rounds such as APCR or APCNR impossible to produce during late war) or Molybdenum shortage (which made armor plates in tanks more prone to spalling). Petrol shortage was really critial.

Re: WW2 German Mod
 

Chromed metal is more heat resistant. You don't have to chrome your gun barrels, and they will still function, until they burn out. And according to Murphy's laws of combat, they will burn out when you most need them. That is, when you are facing two Front armies, and you need everything that can shoot. That is no time to have barrels burn out.

Chromium is essential for jet engines. Jets operate at a much higher temperature than piston engines. And again Murphy's laws apply. Your unchromed jet engine will burn out when you most need it to function.

And then there are the other shortages, petroleum, molybdenum, tungsten. And power. You have the British busting your dams, the Americans blasting your power plants, and the Russians burning everything else.

troopie

Re: WW2 German Mod
 

Certainly, had the Germans not collapsed a bit ahead of schedule, the Berlin Bomb would have been dropped.

However, any simulation that allows the deployment of any number of Mauses is into the 'what if' space. Some of the almost deployed late war weapons were not a waste of time and effort. The Panther II and the Panther Uhu would have been useful, as was the Stg44. (And the wunderwaffe programs served a very useful purpose for the draftable engineers wanting to avoid the Eastern Front.)

Also, there is some slender speculation that the Germans might have had the capability of deploying a 'dirty nuc' HE warhead/bomb. One could imagine a 1945/46 MAD scenario with the Germans that would have been impossible US vs. Japan. Here we are into Turtledove territory, but Panzer46 is not beyond the bounds of the possible.

Hence, I am delighted to have the new OOB.