Ordering question
 

This has probably been asked before but I can't find it.

If I wanted to buy spmbt and/or spww2 and download the "cd version", is that possible? If not, why not? Thanks.

Re: Ordering question
 

The CD version is just that, A CD version. Not availible as a download.
The download version is free on the other hand.

I don't get why anybody wouldn't want the CD. What happens if your hard drive goes boom? Then you only have digital memories...

Re: Ordering question
 

Becaues the p&p is crazy high that is why.
Perhaps not for the USA, but try to order one from Greece or Australia etc and you will see my point, plus depending on the country you are buying it from, you can be asked to be additional tax.
I don't get it why the CD version is not available as a download. Just do it as Matrixgames do it and have a serial number, no other DRM etc.
I delayed buying the CD version for a LONG time due to the extra expenses, I finaly bought it, but much later than I would otherwise. I know of at least 2 people who don't buy the CD version because they don't want to pay almost double the amount of the game itself for the extra costs.

I don't know why Shrapnel doesn't allow this, perhaps they have their reasons whatever they might be.

Re: Ordering question
 

Thats an aweful big expense. I have to admit I might still be using the free version if I had to pay that.

Customers on that side of the globe need a Shrapnel Europe or something.

Why is that expense so one sided?

I mean I've bought stuff from UK,Germany,Hong Kong,Austrailia and the shipping expense wasn't double for example.

Re: Ordering question
 

Makes no diffrence as I have already but if did with a serial no I would hope the CD version stays as is. Its refreshing to have a game company that does not ask you to enter a 20 digit code & does not force me to copy the CD to my hard drive as I do not need it to play.
(Why 20 odd digits for f s my cash is protected by a lot less, is that a 0 or a O lets try again)

I can understand what you are saying about the postage but you have had a nearly complete "demo" of the game so know you are not wasting your cash on a Lemming.
Is it really expensive say with postage it comes out at US$52.
If you play it for an hour a week for a year thats a dollar an hour then its free.
5 hours a week costs you 20 cents an hour for the first year.
Play more or over 5 years you are talking chump change.
Name other entertainment you can get for the same price even music does not compete & a DVD is well expensive how much do you spend to watch 50 hours of film even renting is more expensive.

Re: Ordering question
 

DUDE, I already bought the game, we are not talking about me, or you. BUT, there are other people who do not buy the game because of this, ok? Still, would company A rather have a customer buy a game now or in 2 years down the line? (or far more)
Plus, just because you can afford to pay the extra, it doesn't mean that other people can. Good for you that any extra amount is nothing, but for others it is a big enough matter to not buy the game.

Re: Ordering question
 

Wdll I was just putting another point of view

Was just pointing out that unless you just play on the odd occasion so would not be considering buying you are not going to get much cheaper entertainment.

Yes this game would suite download as a printed manuel is not important in this instance & never did I dispute this.

Yes I would pay more for a game that does not need the CD in the drive or force me to input a code

Yes if it was expensive I would want to know if its worth buying.
I will not buy a game now unless it has a demo because I am fed up of getting my fingeres burned with recycled pap.
Basicly I do not like being riped off with shody workmanship but I am willing to pay for a good product.
Does not matter what it is the shody product will sit gathering dust while the good one will get used. Even if it was 10x more expensive its still cheaper in the long run to buy the good product because of this.

These same people will probably moan that despite being years old the game still commands full price it should be bargin basement prices now.
They may even spend more than the price of the game in one night out & yet thats good value go figure.

Re: Ordering question
 

The issue of an downloadable "CD version " is now under discussion.


Don

Re: Ordering question
 

Everything has its pros and cons. People think that DD (digital download) is a done deal but in actuality consider the entire subject to be "beta test". No one is ignoring it. Its being tested and watched by pretty much everyone. But very few companies put their big hitters in digital download unless they have an extensive management system they wrote themselves. Ive been involved in trying to set up some and its not as simple as it seems it should be.

Until one of the big companies offers a control package that can be purchased and installed, and wont cause the customer base to scream "WHAT? You went with THAT?!?" then DD isnt something to count on. Its not yet like adding a shopping cart, or a forum, or a blog, to a website by just buying and installing the package for it.

By the way, Im totally for it and understand the problems of overseas purchasing. I just thought Id toss in abit of the other side of the discussion for people to chew. Everything has its pros and cons.

Re: Ordering question
 

Games undergoing constant development despite being "years old" do not belong in the "bargain basement". Anyone who thinks so can go :angel themselves. ( and Yes. I know Imp isn't suggesting this is how it should be ) Any game that lasts this long in this market is a classic. It's certainly being played now by a second generation of players and we know the graphics aren't as snappy as the first person shooters out there but that's not what this games all about




expect a decision about DD in a few days


Don

Re: Ordering question
 

Interesting blog post here at Shrapnel last month;

Why Pricing Remains Relatively Constant

Re: Ordering question
 

Can you shed some light on why that expense is basically one way?

I've bought stuff oversea's and haven't paid anywhere near double
for stuff to get it here. (US)

Re: Ordering question
 

The guys to ask are people like Wdll who have paid the freight and duty and can give you an exact number. It also depends a lot on the "stuff" you bought, where it was produced and what the nation it's being sent to has decided how much tax to slap on it

Don

Re: Ordering question
 

I'm just talking DVD/Audio CD/CD-ROM Software

Re: Ordering question
 

Yeah, I think it's mostly a European issue. I've ordered miniatures, model kits, software from England, Australia, and Hong Kong and have never been slapped with a custom charge or any kind of fee whatsoever. But those European nations sure love to tax everything and anything.

Re: Ordering question
 

All of its one way. The charges for bringing things into a country are up to that country. We (the USA that is) charge really high for some things because we basically want to keep them out. But other things we actually give them breaks on.

Some people complain that there should be more of an effort to mke things "fair". They yell if they charge us then we should charge them. But really, that doesnt make much sense. That might make some people feel like vengence has been served but it would only make it harder for us to control the flow the way we would like.

Re: Ordering question
 

That is the basic reason.

I don't remember anymore how much I paid for this game. Surprisingly enough I remember for an older purchase from a different publisher.

When I was in Plymouth England a few years ago, I ordered Strategic Command (or was it Galactic Civilizations...lol don't remember). I don't remember the exact price but let's say it was $50. I paid something like $25 for shipping and another $35 for customs and vat tax when it arrived here/there or else I couldn't pick it up.
That was the last time (apart from winSPMBT) that I bought a game from the USA.

It is not 100% guaranteed you will pay those taxes, it depends on the customs officer in charge in the day it arrives lol and if you are lucky to not have your parcel chosen in random.


For many products (most?) imported from the USA, you have to pay the price for the product (obviously), the shipping (obviously, which is higher due to the distance), a 15% to 25% (depending on the EU country) VAT on top, plus a customs tax as mentioned earlier. You might get lucky and avoid them, but don't confuse that with how things are done.

I don't know the specifics for other countries but an australian guy I know told me he would end up paying nearly double the amount of the game if he ordered it.

Re: Ordering question
 

You have to take into account that you're paying a US price for the game, which is a lot less than you'd pay in the UK for example.

Yes, your credit card company will get you for a couple of percent on the exchange rate, you will pay a little more for shipping, the government may charge you an Import Duty and handling fee, but it still may only come to a little more than we pay in the US.

The game is currently on sale for 34.95 USD
Not sure but shipping may be 9.99 USD in the US

At the current UK exchange rate the game would be 23.86 GBP
Duty Tax is 17.5% that's now 28.04 GBP
Post Office handling fee of 4 GBP bring us to 32.04 GBP
If shipping is 20 USD that's 13.65 GBP
Brings us to a total approx price of 45.69 GBP

My experience from living in the UK and the US, is that you usually pay in pounds in the UK, what you pay in dollars in the US, and that includes games.

There's exceptions, like petrol is more expensive in the UK and food (from a store not restaurant) is more expensive in the US.

So in the US you may pay 45.00 USD to get the game, but in the UK (because of the great US price) you may end up paying 45.00 GBP, which is about the same relative price.


Cheers,
Cross

Re: Ordering question
 

Are you drunk? Since when is the UK a cheaper place to live than the US? The above example would work if say someone for job X gets $35000 in the USA and £35000 in the UK, in case you don't know, it's not anything like that.
I am sorry but your logic doesn't stand.

Re: Ordering question
 

It's not how much you earn, it's how much buying power you have.

Buying a game for 45 USD in the US is not much differnent from buying a game for 45 GBP in the UK. That's my experience. I last lived in the UK in 2005/2006, and have been back in the US since then.

You must consider how much you'd expect to pay for a similar product were you to purchase it domestically.

I buy quite a lot of PC games for my four boys. Paying 45 USD for a game in the US is higher than average (but WinSP is worth it). My experience is paying 45 GBP in the UK for a PC game is also higher than average, and about the same cost/value.

:cheers:
Cross

Re: Ordering question
 

I am sorry but I still don't agree with your logic. In fact I know many people don't agree with the whole $1=£1 that is found in the entertainment industry including games. You are the only one ever in the last 12 years or so since I first came to this country that actualy thinks this is acceptable and logical. I could say more but it would be nothing nice...so I will stop here.

Re: Ordering question
 

Wdll, It's not that I think it's acceptable or logical, it's just the way it is...

If you go back just over a year when the exchange rate was more like 2.00 USD to the pound, you guys in the UK were definately getting a better deal than those living in the US. This is even more true if you manage to avoid the 17.5% VAT or Post Office handling fee.

I've bought and shipped quite a lot of stuff from the US to the UK (and visa-versa) and I'm surprised more people don't take advantage of the great US prices. Especially when the exhange rate is favourable.

cheers,
Cross

Re: Ordering question
 

You continue to not make any sense. If in the UK you could get something that costs $20 for the equivelent in £, that is about £13 today, then perhaps you would be right. But since the actual prices for most relevant items follow a special "exchange rate" of $1=1£, it doesn't stand at all.
When you buy a recently released AAA title for $50 in the USA and you buy the same one in the UK for £50 or in most of europe for 50 euros, it still then it is not a great deal...It would be if the same person that gets $50000 as salary per year in the USA was getting paid £50000 in the UK, but it isn't happening either. It is more like 30% to 50% less.
Your logic doesn't make any sense. I am beginning to think you are just trolling now.

Re: Ordering question
 

My last 10 pence worth as I live in the UK
Yes Aus & some baltic states get hammered but a lot of Europe does not.
If a tax is to be levied it is normally added at source when you buy it. For instance think Aus does or that State in the States. I would guess if the company did not charge the tax it would be breaking the law as its now smuggling.

Postage to the UK is reasonable unless you want instant delivery. You just pay & a few days later it pops through your letterbox as our post system is relativly cheap.
No taxes to pay just open & play.
The cost think they are about US$38 plus whatever postage was cant remember but not great say $8.
This means in the UK you get it delivered to your door for the same price as going to your game store & buying a current title. Its about the same price as a main stream game thats been around for a while less than a brand spanking new top title.

This means Crosses point is valid its buying power not wage dependant.
Buy stuff from the US one CD or DVD you wont save anything because the postage will get you. Buy a few or more expensive items like a pair of Levis or Nikes & you will get it dead cheap even after paying the postage. Electrical goods same but US not neccesarilly the best place to buy it.
Get yourself a free ho;iday to the states or the the Far East go with empty suitcases & buy stuff. If you are unlucky you will get caught for import duty & wont save anything but otherwise the savings will pay for your holiday.
Its even worth shipping expensive stuff back

Re: Ordering question
 

Well, if they actualy go with a download version (not infested with DRM activations etc), I guess we will see how it sells. Well, they will anyway.

Re: Ordering question
 

I like a download version for a couple of reasons. No postage to pay. No disk to throw away. I keep all my games on an external hard drive for backup. My computer went belly up a month ago and I lost nothing, except the time to reinstall on a new computer. I don't mind a code to input on a download version either. I keep all those on a "backup" doc. Takes only a few seconds.

Re: Ordering question
 

:shock:

Why would you throw it away?

I'm an archiver myself. I have EVERY game CD I ever bought.

Re: Ordering question
 

I don't keep a bunch of extra crap around. Just a personal thing I guess. I only keep disks that are protected and the files can't just be transferred to my backup hard drive. And I haven't bought anything like that in years.

Re: Ordering question
 

Rich be careful, external hard drives cannot be trusted 100%. I have had 2 of them die on me over the last 6 years. Different brands too. I hope you have your important files on more than one hard drive or else you might find yourself in deep trouble.

Re: Ordering question
 

Excellent advice. You never know. I just backed up my ext hard drive on my main hd which came with the computer and is new.

Re: Ordering question
 

Actually all software companies are watching the market carefully in the area of Digital Download. There is plenty of information available about its pros and cons. Particularly if you are talking about DD without adding additional DRM.

And Shrapnel does have DD games. So they do have some in-house statistics also. I see this in many of the forums here when this subject comes up. You make it sound like this is the only game Shrapnel sells.

So I dont really see why THIS particular game would have to go DD for Shrapnel to see if it would be a good idea. In fact this would seem to be one of the least likely to be used as a test. They might decide to but I dont think it will be as a "we will see" experiment.

Gandalf Parker
--
Just because I can, doesnt mean I will.
Just because I dont, doesnt mean I cant.
Just because you say so, doesnt mean Ill change.
And above all, just because you want it, doesnt mean I care.

Re: Ordering question
 

Relax Gandalf, I don't know about their other games because I am not interested in them. Nothing sinister, just pure beautiful ignorance on my part. :) The only other game I know I would be interested in is Salvo, but it only has a boxed version as far as I know.

Re: Ordering question
 

Hi,

Your post generated a conversation between Camo Workshop and ourselves, resulting in exciting news. The enhanced versions of both winSPMBT and winSPWW2 are now available as downloads.

When we first released these games, we felt that the CD and printed documentation were part of the value added to the paid vs. free version. But we do understand that some international customers have legitimate hesitation due to shipping and taxation issues.

And so, viola:
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=42991

As noted in the press release, to kick off this exciting event we are offering a limited time price reduction on all our downloadable games. Enjoy! And tell your friends :D

Annette