Fever fetish: How to use it effectively
 

I've been impressed that people often underestimate this powerful item so I've decided to share my knowledge and experience with it.
First of all, some basic stuff and numbers:
Fever fetish is supposed to disease its wielder and to bring 1 fire gem per turn. It is well known that it works poorly on undead and demons (it was way too powerful in times of Dominions: PPP when it could be used on undead) and brings gems rarely. I used fetishes a lot in all games I had access to them and I noticed that fetish brings gems more often when its wielder has less HP than the base and so I decided to disease commanders a turn before I planned to wear fetish on them. Yes, it was even more time consuming but it made fetishes more effective.
The exact numbers were given by Ich recently. So fetish has a
- 25% chance to bring a gem when its wielder has base HP
- 50% chance when wielder has 1 HP less
- 75% chance with 2 HP less
- 100% with 3 or more HP less.
So, it is probably most effective to wear fetishes when commander has 2HP less because 75% is a good chance and 3HP less makes the life of a low-HP wielder really short. It's quite simple to do - just equip a healthy commander with a fetish, then remove it (commander stays diseased) and then equip it again in 2 turns.
Also, these maths explain why fetish works poorly on undead, demons and commanders with regeneration – they all just never lose HP to disease. OTOH, if you give a regeneration item to a fetish wielder when he has 3 or less HP, it will bring gems forever.
But yes, all this requires a tremendous amount of micromanagement. Planning how many fetishes you'll have two turns later and checking each wielder's HP so that he doesn't die can really be a pain (for everyone who is not micro fan like me). Is it really worth the gain? Yes, it is because this micro allows you to always get (roughly) 1 fire gem per turn with this cheap item. If you want to win this can be invaluable.
It is often said that clam is more effective than fetish because fetish brings (nearly) useless gems, requires a lot of micro and money to recruit disposable commanders. All this is true in some aspects but even if we say that 2 fire gems are equal to one pearl…
- 2 fetishes (with hammers) cost 6 fire and 6 nature gems (12 total). They pay for themselves very quickly in terms of fire gems but require more nature.
- 1 clam (with hammer) costs 11 water and 3 nature gems (14 total) and clams don't pay for themselves at all because they give gems of type they don't require to make (of course you may alchemize but then the numbers will be different).
So minuses of fetish are more mages (and hammers) to produce, more nature gems (which may be quite important) and gold for disposable wielders but in pure numbers it looks more effective. I think that you see now that they may be really effective even if 2 fire gems are considered equal to 1 pearl which is not true because there're other good ways to spend fire gems in most cases.
Now let's talk about those wielders mentioned above that you have to recruit if you go fetishing. It is obvious that the more HP fetish wielder has the better so if you have access to high-HP commanders, they are ideal targets for fetishes because they will last long and bring a lot of gems for the price (and require a lot less micro). But if you don't have high-HP commanders, the most effective (among indies) wielders in terms of gold spent/gems brought are barbarian chief and scout.
Can these fetish-wielding indies do anything else except just sitting in your big castle and slowly dying from disease and bringing gems? Yes, they can:). If you want to diversify into blood which, IMO, any nation without native access to blood should do, you will anyway need to recruit independent commanders/scouts for hunting. Why not equipping them with fetishes? Being diseased doesn't affect their blood hunting potential at all and it is a good idea to give a fetish to each hunter and then just replace him when he dies.
Also, if you have access to good healers or commanders with recuperation it may be a good idea to equip just anyone (including researchers) with fetishes and when they have 1-2HP remove them and start healing (remember that you may always wear a regeneration item on a commander with 1HP and he will not die until you heal him)
Also, if you have access to commanders with second shape (Machakan Black sorcerers and sorceresses are the most obvious examples) it is worth knowing that they may never die from disease. When they lose their last HP they shapeshift and come with full health the next turn. And they even may cure some afflictions. So it might be a good idea to wear fetishes on those you don't plan to use as battle mages.
Also, there's one trick I discovered recently that made me write all this. Do you remember what I said somewhere above? Undead are poor wielders not because they're undead but because they never lose HP and it is really important. Now let's imagine that we may have undead commanders with 3HP less than the base… Yes, it means that these undead will bring you gems forever without dying and for no upkeep at all. Sounds sweet, doesn't it? If you go for reanimating your commanders with "Posion Cloud/Life after Death" trick (no matter why you may want it) your reanimated soulless will nearly always have less HP than base 15 due to a minor bug in Dominions engine (which noone is going to fix, AFAIK). The bug is that even if unit's second shape has poison resistance it will receive all poison damage its first form accumulated (I mean green line) so the soulless receive the remains of accumulated poison damage even though they have PR. (The same applies to Machakan spiders, btw) Soulless never heal so they will have less HP after the battle and if any lacks 3 or more HP you may easily wear fetish on it.

All that being said, let's make some conclusions.
You should always think of going for fetishes when you…
- have access to them (you're surprised, I know:) ! )
- are not afraid of all that micro
- plan to diversify into blood
- have access to good healers or commanders with high HP/recuperation/second shape
- have access to "Posion Cloud/Life after Death" trick

…and fetishes will greatly pay for themselves, believe me…:)

p.s. One minor advice on micro with fetishes: rename the commanders that you'll have to remove fetishes from the next turn or two for easier access to them later. It is often hard to remember who has many HP and who is going to die shortly. Renaming really helps here.

Re: Fever fetish: How to use it effectively
 

Good guide Ano. You are great fetishist :)

Re: Fever fetish: How to use it effectively
 

I've come to disagree that fire is worthless. Consider this:

Demon Whips (a cheaper fire only substitute for fire brand without the moral or FR [note: in CBM only])

Dragon Helm (my favorite basic helm for all thugs, cheap and provides something most thugs need: morale)

Fire Plate (Paired with Dragon Helm, provides 100% FR with no other items. On a thug with just 1E, can still be turned into Prot 23 via Ironskin [actually prot 24 from the 1E too.])

There's also Fire/Earth stuff:

Fire Brand (it's like standard issue, the AoE effect plus FR and morale)

Charcoal Shield (another popular item, passive damage plus FR)


With the right paths access, a thug can be very effective with very little and just fire items
if you have a 1E thug:
Demon Whip x2
Dragon Helm
Fire Plate

that's _all_ fire gems filling in over half of your thug's needs and he can still boost prot to 24 which ain't bad. Slap on a Luck Pendant and you have a thug costing 20fire 5astral that is probably 80% combat effective versus a thug loaded up with 50 gems (or more) worth of valuable gem types (earth, air, water, death). Put this on an undead thug and the weight of Fire Plate is a non-factor, plus they get 100% in all resistances but shock. That's badass on the cheap, compliments of your worthless fire gems.

Re: Fever fetish: How to use it effectively
 

I didn't say they're worthless, I just said that they are considered worthless. Or the least valuable among all others.
Of course, fire gems have their niche and not only because of forgery but also because of one of the most powerful remote evocations in the game that, with fetish economy properly deployed, can be spammed!

Re: Fever fetish: How to use it effectively
 

Just thought I'd chime in here, on that note. I recently had a very large, and very powerful army totally decimated by 3 Fires From Afar. It was very expensive, and demoralizing.

Also, oddly, I was just thinking the other night about indie priests given a Shroud at 7hp, for perpetual gem income with little/no micro.

If you were to somehow manage to start this up with Caelum, you could even use Seraphines, who are stealthy (hard to interfere with), and can stealth preach your border provinces while they farm gems for you. But 4N is a weird path for a Caelum pretender, and you'd have to work hard to get a fetish economy in most cases, so it would be rough. Others have stealthy priests of course, but not flying. ;)

Re: Fever fetish: How to use it effectively
 

Okay, now I need to make a new pretender:

The Colossal Fever Fetish! only for Machaka.

-Max

Re: Fever fetish: How to use it effectively
 

Problem is that Fever Fetish needs those N gems, and if you are constrained by such clams are better option. Of course you could just alchemize 3N from 12F.
Compared to that, a clam cost 28 astral gems not 30F of 2FF.

On commander efficiency.
You can see from the numbers that you produce an average of half gems in the first 3 turns. That's 1.5 gem. You also have to remove the fetish when reaching 2HP. So you produce HP-2.5 gems total for living nonregenerating commanders.
Regen items cost you an additional 3S/3N/7N increasing fetish price a lot.

Saying that, look for high HP indies.
Scout (10HP) can produce 7.5F gems for 20g. Say 2.67gold/gem.
Shambler Chief (22HP) 11 for 45, 2.3gold/gem.
Caveman, 24.5 for 60, 2.55gold/gem.
Kappa Chief, 19.5 for 30 in CBM is the cheapest indie for the job.

Neverhealing wound on undead/regenerating commanders might work too, I haven't tried it though.

Also, F gems can be converted to money 15 apiece which might come handy in case of Utterdark/Armaggedons so you can recruit more commanders. Keep a look on Alchemists.

Re: Fever fetish: How to use it effectively
 

An undead prophet in enemy dominion also works?
still.. neverending wound undead + ff... lovely idea.

Re: Fever fetish: How to use it effectively
 

This sounds like an effective way to get an edge, but not very fun.

Re: Fever fetish: How to use it effectively
 

The trick with undead w/out full hps giving you endless gems smells like an exploit to me in all honesty.

Re: Fever fetish: How to use it effectively
 

Quick idea for those with a N4 pretender: Fetish a commander, wait three turns and then slap on a Shroud. Ta-daah!

Re: Fever fetish: How to use it effectively
 

Sort of related, but when you give a commander a shroud does he also get the reduced upkeep of a sacred unit? If so, it just makes this all the sweeter.

Re: Fever fetish: How to use it effectively
 

Not AFAIK.

Re: Fever fetish: How to use it effectively
 

P3D
Yes, nature gems are a restriction, I mentioned it. But only if you are really going to convert fire to astral which is not always a good option. If you have uses for fire gems than comparing 2 fetishes to one clam is not correct at all.
Kappa chief is the best just because it recuperates.
I tried it, it doesn't work. I understand it so that afflictions/heroic abilities/seasons(for those with season powers) affect unit's base HP, not current HP. You may see it, for example, if you cast regeneration on a unit with NHW. It will never heal to original HP.
Don't know as for prophet in enemy dominions but anyway I doubt it is a good idea.

Trumanator
Don't see any exploit, really. It just greatly reduces your micro but doesn't give you any great advantages you couldn't get without it.
No, he doesn't. "Sacred" and "Blessed" are different tags and it is "Sacred" tag that reduces upkeep.

Gregstrom
Yes, it is an obvious solution if you are ok with increasing the price of each fetish by another mage/hammer turn + 3S. If you are not then Shrouds may be really useful to keep alive your mages while you're healing them.

Re: Fever fetish: How to use it effectively
 

Great guide ano. Thanks for sharing this!

However - I actually second DonC here.
While I agree with the suggestions I'd probably never go that way. For me MM is a game killer, its much more likely that I'll lose interest in a game that requires lot's of MM than that I'd use this edge to actually win one. That however is just a personal taste/constraint, if you have the stomach for all that MM then by all means go for it :)

Re: Fever fetish: How to use it effectively
 

In fact, MM here it is not that horrifying. You just need to spend some more time on fetish management. No deep thinking is required there, just automatic actions. The gains are great, though.
Of course, it is a matter of personal preference. I just feel glad when I see the incredible fire income that fetishes start giving very early.

Re: Fever fetish: How to use it effectively
 

Of course you can hang fetishes on already diseased researchers equipped with shrouds for no extra cost.

My fetish commanders has names like 47 or FF47, indicating the turn (47) when the fetish should be removed (barring NHW if that has any effect).

Re: Fever fetish: How to use it effectively
 

Good idea with renaming, btw. Thanks)
I renamed commanders when there were two or three turns left to turn my attention to them but your idea is much better because it requires some calculations but only once.
I'll be using it from now on:).

Re: Fever fetish: How to use it effectively
 

Recuperation is an interesting thought. Cuts into your income a bit, but reduces micro to 0. Satyr scouts anyone? Safely stealthy, perpetual gem factories.....

Re: Fever fetish: How to use it effectively
 

recup doesn't mean they don't die while holding the fetish, it just means that when you take it off they'll heal up in a turn or two.

Re: Fever fetish: How to use it effectively
 

I'll pass on a trick Meglobob suggested to me, rename your commander with the turn number you stick a fever fetish on him. That way, each turn it's a simple scan through your nation overview to see which guys are ready to croak and need their fetish removed.

Re: Fever fetish: How to use it effectively
 

That's nearly what P3D suggested above but his suggestion is better, IMO.

Re: Fever fetish: How to use it effectively
 

Another trick: When you put a fetish on a commander he gets diseased, when you remove it he stays diseased. This means you can disease any number of commanders any given turn by shuffling around one fetish.

So what?

Well say you produce three FF every turn, you can pre-disease six extra commanders the first turn and three every turn after that so you will always have -3hp on any commanders receiving a new fetish. That way you can get 100% efficiency from your fetishes!

Re: Fever fetish: How to use it effectively
 

That's exactly what I wrote about - diseasing commanders several turns before you really want to wear a fetish.
Wasn't it clear enough?

edit: I added the clarifying sentence.

Re: Fever fetish: How to use it effectively
 

I guess I missed or misunderstood that part then. Great guide btw.

Re: Fever fetish: How to use it effectively
 

It's fine, I don't think people really read this thread properly. :p I mentioned Shrouds with N4 in my first response, and you quoted Gregstrom saying the same thing 5 posts after me.

That has happened to 3 separate people in this thread alone, some sort of new record. :shock:

Re: Fever fetish: How to use it effectively
 

I read everything here but commented Gregstrom's post because it was about shrouds only. Yours was more complex:).
Sadly, I have to admit that people are not very interested in fetishes. Micro seems to be a restricting factor.

Re: Fever fetish: How to use it effectively
 

Tried fetishing in SP as Machaka. The sorceresess (is that right?) never died and I never lost a single research point.
No wonder they get the colossal fetish pretender (is that the name?)
If those girls were not capitol only it would be nice nice.
You dont even get to do any micromanaging at all. They just dont die. Unless i saw something wrong.
On the other hand the sorcerers can be affected by the mute affliction. While the sorceress are only hampered by the feebleminded aff.
What other shape changing mages are there to do this?

Re: Fever fetish: How to use it effectively
 

Dragons, Skratti, Gor Jaguar Warriors, Skin Shifters
Pythium serpent riders etal, my version of th Freak Lord, Chayots, gundermen, Lamias. Perhaps Lanka's rakshasas (the female mage, Machaka Spiders Riders (but they have better choices).. off the top of my head.

Eddies db is much more complete.

Re: Fever fetish: How to use it effectively
 

Yes, Machaka is the fetish king race Not using fetishes with them is unwise and maybe that's one of the reasons it is considered so weak - people just don't like fetishes.
There're several others though - namely EA Ermor, Yomi, Oceania, Ulm, EA and MA Tien Chi, LA Jomon. Of these MA TC and EA Ermor have access to good healers which should (as I mentioned) be a strong argument to think of fetishes.

As for the sorcerers/sorceresses - they share the same mechanics - when they lose last HP they shapeshift and come with full health next turn and have a chance to heal afflictions in process. There's one downside though - when they come with full health they have a lesser chance to bring a gem.
Any commanders with second form will behave in the same way but nations that can recruit them don't have native access to fetishes.

p.s. As for Colossal Fetish, I don't think it is a good pretender. It is too vulnerable because it can't retreat unless it is given Astral.

Re: Fever fetish: How to use it effectively
 

Heh. Something about the idea of a fever-fetished Freak Lord or Chayot is terribly amusing.

-Max

Re: Fever fetish: How to use it effectively
 

Add LA Gath to the bunch. Healers (with N2+F randoms) and 20HP researchers.

Re: Fever fetish: How to use it effectively
 

LA Pithium - Make fetishes with heliodromuses and put it on satyrs.

Re: Fever fetish: How to use it effectively
 

Fetish can't retreat?

Really? Is this known? Why not?

Re: Fever fetish: How to use it effectively
 

It's Mindless (Morale 50). It will never retreat on its own. Furthermore, there's some weirdness if you directly order it to retreat. I just tried it in a test game, and when it reached the edge of the field it sat there for several combat turns and then disappeared. (It was counted as a casualty in the AAR and I no longer had a pretender.) I wonder if that means retreat = die, or just retreat = remove leadership from battle and eventually dissolve like all Mindless creatures do. For practical purposes it doesn't matter, you can't Retreat a Mindless pretender.

-Max

Re: Fever fetish: How to use it effectively
 

Interesting. I always forget those special case things like golemns....

Re: Fever fetish: How to use it effectively
 

Hmm, how about LA R'lyeh?

You get alot of mad freespawn that's just predestined to hold them and in the long run it's your only source of gold income.

A shame you didn't write that guide a few days earlier.

Re: Fever fetish: How to use it effectively
 

Any nation with free commanders is good. R'lyeh as well, of course, but you don't have F+N combination initially and it is not easy to find. Generally, the most common way of getting access to fetishes and clams for the nations that don't have it initially are enchantresses and (for clams) naiads. Without them finding this combo is not an easy task.
Why? Could it really change anything for you?

Re: Fever fetish: How to use it effectively
 

Probably not. :)
Sorry but I have used fetishes before and I just hate the micro.
But then loads of mad suicide fire gen generators... hmm.

Re: Fever fetish: How to use it effectively
 

Gawd, that's like micro x micro = brain explode! ;)

Re: Fever fetish: How to use it effectively
 

My brains are still at place. Or at least I hope so:)